What budget speakers

[sibeer]

I have been DJing some classic dance music and weddings with a friend of mine locally. Unfortunately he is not always available and I want to be able to do a gig on my own. He is always happy for me to borrow his PA, but I feel a bit cheeky and he is 30 minutes drive away. As such I have decided to try get some kit of my own (which I am sure will be much worse than the QSC K12's I borrow).

I am aiming to spend £100-£300 for two speakers either with an amp or powered. Happy with 2nd hand but only if the saving is worthwhile. Volume doesn't have to be that high as it is smaller venues more often than not. Have found the following options and would love a view on them:

New QTX PAJ15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £280
New QTX QX15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £290
New Ekho PL15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £270
Ex Demo QTX QR12K Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £155
Ex Hire QTX QX12AV Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £180
2nd Hand RCF 322A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £450 plus a 3hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand Soundlab G097 Amp and NJS 15" Speakers with Stands - £100 plus 1hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand (still in warranty) LD Systems GT15A Active Speakers - £400 plus 2hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand - DB Technologies Active 412 Speakers - £325
2nd Hand - DB Technologies Active 405 Speakers - £300 plus 2hr round trip to collect

Particularly confusing is the range of QTX speakers at similar prices, also have no idea how the likes of LD Systems, RCF and DB Technologies compare to the excellent QSC speakers I have been lucky enough to use so far, the price seems to be a halfway house between them and the likes of the QSC and Ekho.

[yourdj]

I have been DJing some classic dance music and weddings with a friend of mine locally. Unfortunately he is not always available and I want to be able to do a gig on my own. He is always happy for me to borrow his PA, but I feel a bit cheeky and he is 30 minutes drive away. As such I have decided to try get some kit of my own (which I am sure will be much worse than the QSC K12's I borrow).

I am aiming to spend £100-£300 for two speakers either with an amp or powered. Happy with 2nd hand but only if the saving is worthwhile. Volume doesn't have to be that high as it is smaller venues more often than not. Have found the following options and would love a view on them:

New QTX PAJ15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £280
New QTX QX15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £290
New Ekho PL15A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £270
Ex Demo QTX QR12K Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £155
Ex Hire QTX QX12AV Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £180
2nd Hand RCF 322A Active Moulded Speaker - Pair for £450 plus a 3hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand Soundlab G097 Amp and NJS 15" Speakers with Stands - £100 plus 1hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand (still in warranty) LD Systems GT15A Active Speakers - £400 plus 2hr round trip to collect
2nd Hand - DB Technologies Active 412 Speakers - £325
2nd Hand - DB Technologies Active 405 Speakers - £300 plus 2hr round trip to collect

Particularly confusing is the range of QTX speakers at similar prices, also have no idea how the likes of LD Systems, RCF and DB Technologies compare to the excellent QSC speakers I have been lucky enough to use so far, the price seems to be a halfway house between them and the likes of the QSC and Ekho.

I got one of these a few months back for circa £280. Bstock - they are excellent!!
Probably not in your budget, but very cheap for what you get.

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-DBR12-Active-PA-Speaker/1387?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=50839d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=129406417999&gclid=CjwKEAjwpuSvBRDSkaes4OasuEESJACfwIc_Z0SQAaBg J_UXq9u83e7rEosm_G_oPIzZLsJj2UGnYRoCPgvw_wcB

I would go RCF 310a for the second hand market personally. Or for real cheapo speakers - Mackie Thumps. Not used many more so can't comment. Not a fan of the QTX. My 12 inch Battery one is OK for its function (background music mainly) though. I had a couple of the 10 inch moulded QTX and they are not great in terms of SPL. Heavy too as i bought a 12 for my venue to use and its really clunky.

[Excalibur]

Quick answer, ignore the QTX. I actually have some, and they're fine, as long as you respect their limits. Theoretically, mine are the top of the range ones, so cheaper ones should have lower specs.
Don't touch the Ekho with someone else's bargepole.
The Soundlab ones aren't likely to be fab, nor the NJS.

The RCF are the class of that list, but as 322s they might be a touch harsh close up, as apparently the throat on them is 2", and designed for long throw. 312s might suit you better.

The Db I can't tell you much about, though they're a pretty well respected brand.

Now the LD, well I have the higher spec 12" version, and love them to bits. The GT are the cheaper ones, but still good cabs. I've been considering the ones you're looking at myself.

However, have a look around for Proel V15a. I've used them, and they're very very good. They may still be over budget, but well worth a look.

The golden rule though, if at all possible:
Listen before you buy.

Edit: Re Toby's post. 310s are very good, but I'd go for 312s, given the choice. They'll cope without a sub(s)
The Yamaha are very good, no question.
The older Mackie/Tapco Thumps ,well look here (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?36086-Tapco-Thump-eaten-alive-!!&highlight=eaten+alive)

[Nakatomi]

I'd strongly suggest that if your budget is 300-400 quid you should buy 2nd hand. That said a pair of alto active 15 inch speakers can be had for 400 from whybuynew if you dint mind b grade stock. I heard a pair of 115sa & was not unimpressed by their output.

The qtx speakers & their ilk are about as good as they cost imho. Useful for some things but maybe not as a main disco pa if you only have two of them. Due to their blatant lying about the power output of their subs I'd honestly stay well clear of anything they make.

Edit: they'd probably be out of your budget anyway but I slightly regret buying Mackie Srm 450 v1 speakers. They're fine at low to mid volumes but crank them a little more & your ears will bleed within ten metres of them unless you turn your mixer mid &.treble down to about ten o clock.

I'm always on the lookout for decent second hand speakers but they very rarely crop up near where I live. As Peter said, beware of buying speakers without being able to hear them in action in person.

[Excalibur]

Thanks Justin, completely forgot the Altos. :o:o Go for TS rather than TX, as far as I can see. The TX specs are considerably lower.

They're perfectly acceptable, and pretty fair value for money. Not the class of LD, RCF, Yamaha and Proel though.

[Nakatomi]

Thanks Justin, completely forgot the Altos. :o:o Go for TS rather than TX, as far as I can see. The TX specs are considerably lower.

They're perfectly acceptable, and pretty fair value for money. Not the class of LD, RCF, Yamaha and Proel though.

Dead right, but they're the best value for money new speakers you're going to get at under £500 a pair as far as I know.

Another pro tip when you're speaker shopping, don't judge active speakers by wattage alone. Look for maximum continuous SPL (sound pressure level). It's perfectly possible for a pair of 500W RMS active speakers to be beaten by a pair of 300W RMS active speakers. It's all about how much sound they produce per watt put into the speaker driver itself, also known as its sensitivity.

In my bargain hunting I've looked for Yamaha, RCF and (until recently) FBT... rest assured if you ever find the budget for those fellas you won't make much of a loss on them if you sell them on. Unlike my poor sister, who's been trying to flog a pair of Skytec active 12s for £100 for months now :lol:

[sibeer]

I got one of these a few months back for circa £280. Bstock - they are excellent!!
Probably not in your budget, but very cheap for what you get.

http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-DBR12-Active-PA-Speaker/1387?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=50839d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=129406417999&gclid=CjwKEAjwpuSvBRDSkaes4OasuEESJACfwIc_Z0SQAaBg J_UXq9u83e7rEosm_G_oPIzZLsJj2UGnYRoCPgvw_wcB

I would go RCF 310a for the second hand market personally. Or for real cheapo speakers - Mackie Thumps. Not used many more so can't comment. Not a fan of the QTX. My 12 inch Battery one is OK for its function (background music mainly) though. I had a couple of the 10 inch moulded QTX and they are not great in terms of SPL. Heavy too as i bought a 12 for my venue to use and its really clunky.

Had looked at the Yamahas and they don't seem to be common 2nd hand and are definitely too much new, a pair for £280 would be amazing though. My friend has warned me of the Mackies, hence not even looking at them.


Quick answer, ignore the QTX. I actually have some, and they're fine, as long as you respect their limits. Theoretically, mine are the top of the range ones, so cheaper ones should have lower specs.
Don't touch the Ekho with someone else's bargepole.
The Soundlab ones aren't likely to be fab, nor the NJS.

The RCF are the class of that list, but as 322s they might be a touch harsh close up, as apparently the throat on them is 2", and designed for long throw. 312s might suit you better.

The Db I can't tell you much about, though they're a pretty well respected brand.

Now the LD, well I have the higher spec 12" version, and love them to bits. The GT are the cheaper ones, but still good cabs. I've been considering the ones you're looking at myself.

However, have a look around for Proel V15a. I've used them, and they're very very good. They may still be over budget, but well worth a look.

The golden rule though, if at all possible:
Listen before you buy.

Edit: Re Toby's post. 310s are very good, but I'd go for 312s, given the choice. They'll cope without a sub(s)
The Yamaha are very good, no question.
The older Mackie/Tapco Thumps ,well look here (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?36086-Tapco-Thump-eaten-alive-!!&highlight=eaten+alive)

Good tip on the Proel and good to know the LD's aren't some nonsense brand, might make the guy an offer and see. Seen the RCF 312s but they seem to go for more money than I am looking to spend, from the sounds of it because they suit more everyday situations.

[sibeer]

I'd strongly suggest that if your budget is 300-400 quid you should buy 2nd hand. That said a pair of alto active 15 inch speakers can be had for 400 from whybuynew if you dint mind b grade stock. I heard a pair of 115sa & was not unimpressed by their output.

The qtx speakers & their ilk are about as good as they cost imho. Useful for some things but maybe not as a main disco pa if you only have two of them. Due to their blatant lying about the power output of their subs I'd honestly stay well clear of anything they make.

Edit: they'd probably be out of your budget anyway but I slightly regret buying Mackie Srm 450 v1 speakers. They're fine at low to mid volumes but crank them a little more & your ears will bleed within ten metres of them unless you turn your mixer mid &.treble down to about ten o clock.

I'm always on the lookout for decent second hand speakers but they very rarely crop up near where I live. As Peter said, beware of buying speakers without being able to hear them in action in person.

Good info on the Alto's. Had seen them a few times and decided they probably weren't up to much as they had Bluetooth, wireless and all sorts of other rubbish that seemed a gimmick for these things. Sounds like a pair of TS112 or TS115 speakers 2nd hand might fall the right side of my budget.

[DJ Jules]

The RCF are the class of that list

:agree:


...but as 322s they might be a touch harsh close up, as apparently the throat on them is 2", and designed for long throw. 312s might suit you better.

I listened to 412's and 422's side by side when I bought my 422's and found exactly the opposite. The 2" HF driver on the 322's and 422's makes the mids a lot more mellow, but the throw on them is great as well. Having said that, I've heard 312's and they're perfectly acceptable.

Julian

[Casual77]

W Audio could also be worth a look, perhaps a pair of used DSR15s. There is a second hand pair on eBay that might be worth keeping an eye on (see link below). I have the 8" versions and I'm pretty impressed by the sound quality for the price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warrior-psr-15a-active-speakers-/271984994878?hash=item3f5391aa3e

[sibeer]

Dead right, but they're the best value for money new speakers you're going to get at under £500 a pair as far as I know.

Another pro tip when you're speaker shopping, don't judge active speakers by wattage alone. Look for maximum continuous SPL (sound pressure level). It's perfectly possible for a pair of 500W RMS active speakers to be beaten by a pair of 300W RMS active speakers. It's all about how much sound they produce per watt put into the speaker driver itself, also known as its sensitivity.

In my bargain hunting I've looked for Yamaha, RCF and (until recently) FBT... rest assured if you ever find the budget for those fellas you won't make much of a loss on them if you sell them on. Unlike my poor sister, who's been trying to flog a pair of Skytec active 12s for £100 for months now :lol:

Good to know the Alto's aren't junk. Saw the bluetooth modules, etc and thought they might be a gimmick brand. The TS series seem fairly common so will keep an eye out for a 2nd hand pair as they should be in budget.

[sibeer]

:agree:



I listened to 412's and 422's side by side when I bought my 422's and found exactly the opposite. The 2" HF driver on the 322's and 422's makes the mids a lot more mellow, but the throw on them is great as well. Having said that, I've heard 312's and they're perfectly acceptable.

Julian

Ooo good news right there, 322's can go back on the list if I get a deal

[sibeer]

W Audio could also be worth a look, perhaps a pair of used DSR15s. There is a second hand pair on eBay that might be worth keeping an eye on (see link below). I have the 8" versions and I'm pretty impressed by the sound quality for the price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warrior-psr-15a-active-speakers-/271984994878?hash=item3f5391aa3e

Will keep an eye out for those too, though that pair is a bit far for a collection. From the prices do you know if they are they a similar sort of level to the Alto's?

[yourdj]

Had looked at the Yamahas and they don't seem to be common 2nd hand and are definitely too much new, a pair for £280 would be amazing though. My friend has warned me of the Mackies, hence not even looking at them.

They are new speakers. You just won't get them second hand. A pair for £280 - don't think so. I got one for that and that was a bargain. They are basically close to the quality of the DXR's. the sound conversion, bass response, weight, size and functions are as good as i have seen at such a low price. The are just not as solidly built.

for second hand i recommended the RCF 310a's & Mackie / Tapco thumps :)
Forgot the V1 Mackies in the original post. Dead heavy but very good speakers for the price.

I would just not go for any of the cheaper brands, you will be wasting your money unless you get a very lucky deal.

[sibeer]

They are new speakers. You just won't get them second hand. A pair for £280 - don't think so. I got one for that and that was a bargain. They are basically close to the quality of the DXR's. the sound conversion, bass response, weight, size and functions are as good as i have seen at such a low price. The are just not as solidly built.

for second hand i recommended the RCF 310a's & Mackie / Tapco thumps :)
Forgot the V1 Mackies in the original post. Dead heavy but very good speakers for the price.

I would just not go for any of the cheaper brands, you will be wasting your money unless you get a very lucky deal.

Those DXR's look a treat, maybe I should just start charging proper money and save up. 7 year warranty is a solid pay of time.

[Nakatomi]

Forgot the V1 Mackies in the original post. Dead heavy but very good speakers for the price.


You're not wrong about them being heavy Toby. 25+ kilos of the darn things.. each. I'm a mere slip of a lad (ish) and it's taken me some time to get used to flinging those things up onto stands I can tell you. Very good is a bit of a stretch, but there seem to be plenty around for about £400 or less a pair in good nick. Certainly more plentiful than RCF.

As for Yamaha & EV... people just seem to want to hang onto theirs for some reason. I wonder why that is? :) I've heard a variety of Yamaha & EV actives this year - a good few bands I've played next to have used them. They're just so clear, even when driven 'flat'.

[rth_discos]

I came across a pair of Mackie Thump speakers over the weekend, when they were being used in the high street by those on street entertainers. I was actually looking for the sub, as I couldn't believe the sound was coming out of just the speakers!

So was quite impressed for a budget speaker.

These are great value of eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-STOCK-2x-Mackie-Thump-12-V3-Active-DJ-PA-Speakers-/181858815497?hash=item2a57a14e09

[Casual77]

Will keep an eye out for those too, though that pair is a bit far for a collection. From the prices do you know if they are they a similar sort of level to the Alto's?

The W Audio speakers are fairly comparable with the Altos as far as I know. I think either would probably suit your needs and you have a good chance of picking up a pair second-hand within your budget.

I have the Yamaha DBR12As and would highly recommend them but they are quite a bit outside your budget and, as pointed out by Justin, they don't come up second hand all that often.

I had a pair of Mackie Thump v3s and a Tapco Thump but I sold them in favour of the Yamahas. They are certainly loud and kick out a fair amount of bass but they lack the refinement and clarity of the Yamahas and I don't regret moving them on.

[Nakatomi]

The W Audio speakers are fairly comparable with the Altos as far as I know. I think either would probably suit your needs and you have a good chance of picking up a pair second-hand within your budget.

I have the Yamaha DBR12As and would highly recommend them but they are quite a bit outside your budget and, as pointed out by Justin, they don't come up second hand all that often.

I had a pair of Mackie Thump v3s and a Tapco Thump but I sold them in favour of the Yamahas. They are certainly loud and kick out a fair amount of bass but they lack the refinement and clarity of the Yamahas and I don't regret moving them on.

You know, people of a certain age will almost always associate Mackie Thump with The Goodies for some reason ;)

[yourdj]

I had a pair of Mackie Thump v3s and a Tapco Thump but I sold them in favour of the Yamahas. They are certainly loud and kick out a fair amount of bass but they lack the refinement and clarity of the Yamahas and I don't regret moving them on.


Those DXR's look a treat, maybe I should just start charging proper money and save up. 7 year warranty is a solid pay of time.

I would save up and get better speakers. The average budget fee for a gig is £200 (well it should be if it not anyway), so it will only take you 3-4 events to pay for them and you will have a much better quality sound system. I would definitely not go cheap - people won't notice the lighting if it fails, but they will the sound. I use RCF 310's and love them, but also use an LD sub and the Yamaha as back up and sound reinforcement. for £330 a top they are worth every penny.

[Sapphire Disco]

These are a good price http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/index.php/fbt-x-lite-10a-1000w-professional-active-loudspeaker.html

Then get a second hand sub ?

[yourdj]

These are a good price http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/index.php/fbt-x-lite-10a-1000w-professional-active-loudspeaker.html

Then get a second hand sub ?

:agree:

[Benny Smyth]

From the list, I would choose the RCF's personally. Since I've moved to RCF, I honestly cannot see myself going to another brand. RCF tend to be quite expensive though, and I have found that the Yamaha's are a good alternative. Much heavier, but they do sound good (and were about to be my choice of speaker until I came across RCF).

Is finance an option? The reason I ask is because speakers are one of those purchases that we as DJs always do wrongly first. We tend to spend more money on lighting than on sound at first and we then learn quite quickly that we should have done it the other way round (damn those speakers for not being flashy and pretty!). If you have the option of getting it right first time (with finance, for example) I would seriously consider that. :)

[Excalibur]

Is finance an option? The reason I ask is because speakers are one of those purchases that we as DJs always do wrongly first. We tend to spend more money on lighting than on sound at first and we then learn quite quickly that we should have done it the other way round (damn those speakers for not being flashy and pretty!). If you have the option of getting it right first time (with finance, for example) I would seriously consider that. :)

All good advice from Benny. I too was wondering whether financing higher quality new ones might be a way forward. Even upping your budget by £200 could allow you to buy something you'll hang on to for years, rather than ditching them two years down the line. Worth considering, I feel.

[Nakatomi]

Hmmm. This thread has got me thinking about spending money again. I like my Mackies, but I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan. They weigh a lot and their mid/top end is really fierce. Maybe I'd be better deferring buying a sub & going for a pair of 310a instead. I really need to find a stockist near me so I can go & hear some properly.. and preferably compare them side by side to my 450s.

[TONYTIGER]

If you can find a pair have a look at the DAS range i have used them for hire over the last 7 years and have been great ,they do a 15 with horn 800w a pair and go for around £ 350 in my opinion they are better than most and have Beyma drivers.

[Pe7e]

Hmmm. This thread has got me thinking about spending money again. I like my Mackies, but I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan. They weigh a lot and their mid/top end is really fierce.

Which version of the Mackie 450s have you got?

[yourdj]

Yamaha's are a good alternative. Much heavier, but they do sound good (and were about to be my choice of speaker until I came across RCF).

No they are not. mY 12 INCH Yamaha, is a similar weight and has the same size (almost) as my PASSIVE RCF art 310.
Considering the advanced electronics and bass handling its quite remarkable.

[ppentertainments]

Hmmm. This thread has got me thinking about spending money again. I like my Mackies, but I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan. They weigh a lot and their mid/top end is really fierce. Maybe I'd be better deferring buying a sub & going for a pair of 310a instead. I really need to find a stockist near me so I can go & hear some properly.. and preferably compare them side by side to my 450s.

For disco use I much prefer my mackies to 310a - unless used with a sub.

Even though the mackies weigh a ton lol

[Nakatomi]

For disco use I much prefer my mackies to 310a - unless used with a sub.

Even though the mackies weigh a ton lol

How so? Better low end? I was looking at the specs on paper & the 310 seems about the same, though they might be quoting -10dB responses.

I've got Italian v1 450S btw

[sibeer]

If you can find a pair have a look at the DAS range i have used them for hire over the last 7 years and have been great ,they do a 15 with horn 800w a pair and go for around £ 350 in my opinion they are better than most and have Beyma drivers.

£350 a pair for something which lasts sounds achievable, is that a new price?


All good advice from Benny. I too was wondering whether financing higher quality new ones might be a way forward. Even upping your budget by £200 could allow you to buy something you'll hang on to for years, rather than ditching them two years down the line. Worth considering, I feel.


Did a post before but it didn't appear, same thing last night so don't know what is happening. Today's had an ebay link in it so maybe it think I am spamming.

Not looking to finance, I could physically afford to spend more, just don't want to. I am charging £50 a go and doing it every couple of months, sadly don't have time to make it a business and could stop as quick as it started. Really I suppose I am just trying to find the sensible minimum point of entry, with output probably not as important as the things actually lasting a few years.

Other ideas:

1. Is using one good speaker an option?

2. Is Behringer any better than QTX? Another that seems to be available cheap 2nd hand.

[yourdj]

2. Is Behringer any better than QTX? Another that seems to be available cheap 2nd hand.

Most the cheap end crap is all the same components, but just made to look a bit different and rebranded.
Just like an impossiled and revo - same light different make.

[Excalibur]

1. Is using one good speaker an option?

It's viable, but not ideal. You're going to need a mono signal, and that can be tricky to achieve in some cases. Mainly depends on the kit you've got.


2. Is Behringer any better than QTX? Another that seems to be available cheap 2nd hand.

Behringer kit varies. Good stuff is Live mixers ( the big ones for bands ) and some of the old amps.
Bad stuff is DJ mixers.

The speakers, well I worked with a singer using some, and his first set sounded superb. Second set he ran backing music in, instead of guitar, turned it up, and it sounded awful. I can't attribute the problem to the cabs, but I wouldn't rush to buy some.

[TONYTIGER]

The DAS 15A is about £ 1300 a pair new but as they are not well known you can get a pair for £ 350 its a pity you are so far away as you could have a have come andhave a demo.

[sibeer]

The DAS 15A is about £ 1300 a pair new but as they are not well known you can get a pair for £ 350 its a pity you are so far away as you could have a have come andhave a demo.

Will give you a shout if I head down south before I get sorted :)

[TONYTIGER]

Will give you a shout if I head down south before I get sorted :)

Hi,thanks will keep my eye out for a pair.

[sibeer]

Hi,thanks will keep my eye out for a pair.

Would give me a chance to use my German GCSE when someone compliments the sound "Ya DAS ist gut!"

[yourdj]

It's viable, but not ideal. You're going to need a mono signal, and that can be tricky to achieve in some cases. Mainly depends on the kit you've got.




Other options, is one speaker running mono even an option?

And also the sound distribution / volume will not be good especially in marquees etc. I work on the basis that I use double the sound i need and run it at half the volume when on full. That way you do not clip your speakers and have plenty of headroom, so it not only sounds much better, but also can be turned up if you need to.

You WILL need backup. Imagine on first dance your one speaker fails - what will you do then?
Trust me so many people don't think about that and regret it. Even two actives can fail at the same time. :)

What events do you do BTW? £50 is a very low fee for a nights work. Even £60 sid makes some money on the top of that. A very low fee rand ere would be about £150 (Southampton). Its great your asking all the right questions on here, rather than buying the wrong thing and regretting it. Have you thought about interest free credit?

This guy is very helpful.

http://www.djanddiscostuff.com

And here: http://www.rsdmusic.co.uk/index.asp?upid=24

[sibeer]

And also the sound distribution / volume will not be good especially in marquees etc. I work on the basis that I use double the sound i need and run it at half the volume when on full. That way you do not clip your speakers and have plenty of headroom, so it not only sounds much better, but also can be turned up if you need to.

You WILL need backup. Imagine on first dance your one speaker fails - what will you do then?
Trust me so many people don't think about that and regret it. Even two actives can fail at the same time. :)

Will stick to two then, and pray never to have a dual death situation.

[yourdj]

Will stick to two then, and pray never to have a dual death situation.

I would imagine it would only happen sue to overheating or an audio spike, but get good speakers and they should have inbuilt handling for stuff like that. I only use my LD Dave sub (a very affordable PA system btw!!), 2 passive (no amp) RCF's and have the Yamaha for reinforcement & back up. So effectively I am only using 2 amps.

I could not recommend this PA system higher for a budget. You would need back up unless you want to risk it mind you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LD-SYSTEMS-DAVE-12G2-P-A-/151813603034?hash=item2358cbbeda

I use the RCF 310's but the ones that come with it are OK. I have used this system on its own for all sorts of events including marquees with 150 people!! I have 1 x G1 12 inch system and 1 x 10 inch system for sale - Delivery would be about £30-40. System about £250 (sub and tops)??

[sibeer]

I would imagine it would only happen sue to overheating or an audio spike, but get good speakers and they should have inbuilt handling for stuff like that. I only use my LD Dave sub (a very affordable PA system btw!!), 2 passive (no amp) RCF's and have the Yamaha for reinforcement & back up. So effectively I am only using 2 amps.

I could not recommend this PA system higher for a budget. You would need back up unless you want to risk it mind you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LD-SYSTEMS-DAVE-12G2-P-A-/151813603034?hash=item2358cbbeda

I use the RCF 310's but the ones that come with it are OK. I have used this system on its own for all sorts of events including marquees with 150 people!! I have 1 x G1 12 inch system and 1 x 10 inch system for sale - Delivery would be about £30-40. System about £250 (sub and tops)??

Is that your system on eBay? Looks a reasonable shout for the money / use I am going for. The 10" one is even nearly in budget new: http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-DAVE10G3-Compact-10-Active-PA-System/1AW8

[yourdj]

Is that your system on eBay? Looks a reasonable shout for the money / use I am going for. The 10" one is even nearly in budget new: http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-DAVE10G3-Compact-10-Active-PA-System/1AW8

You won't get nearly enough volume out of a 10 inch, especially bass as the cabinet is too small / under driven. I thought it wold be fine one even that had crap access but it just does not cut it. I actually ended up damaging the driver too as it was over driven. All it is is a paper cone being forded in and out at high speed, so they can be very delicate.

You will need a 12inch. They are very good for the price! Baer jun mind storage, transport etc as a 40 kg sub is quite a lump when compared to a couple of 12kg Yamahas!! I would say the bass response on the Yamaha is better too (Clever audio management).

[sibeer]

As with most things in life the more you look at it the more you want to spend.

You start at about £150 for a pair of 2nd hand QTXs, but that is not too far off a 2nd hand pair of Wharfdale Titans or Altos at about £225, which in turn is not too far off getting lucky with an OK 2nd hand set of a better make for about £300-£350. But then it is only £450 for a pair of Proel 15" ex-demo speakers, or £500 for LD Systems GT 15 A's, but then you are near the Yamaha DBR12s at about £650 a pair with a very reassuring 7 year warranty. Sod it, might as well just get another paid of QSC K12's to match my friends for a grand or so :confused:

[Casual77]

As with most things in life the more you look at it the more you want to spend.

You start at about £150 for a pair of 2nd hand QTXs, but that is not too far off a 2nd hand pair of Wharfdale Titans or Altos at about £225, which in turn is not too far off getting lucky with an OK 2nd hand set of a better make for about £300-£350. But then it is only £450 for a pair of Proel 15" ex-demo speakers, or £500 for LD Systems GT 15 A's, but then you are near the Yamaha DBR12s at about £650 a pair with a very reassuring 7 year warranty. Sod it, might as well just get another paid of QSC K12's to match my friends for a grand or so :confused:

I would seriously consider getting out of here quickly while you still can. If you check back to my early posts you'll see that I ventured on here asking a very similar question. Six months on from that first naïve post, my initial budget of circa £500 for speakers and lights has somehow turned into a four grand outlay!

I followed the same train you have just described and ended up with the Yamaha DBR12s, which I am more than happy with, but my overdraft has taken a serious hammering!

[sibeer]

I would seriously consider getting out of here quickly while you still can. If you check back to my early posts you'll see that I ventured on here asking a very similar question. Six months on from that first naïve post, my initial budget of circa £500 for speakers and lights has somehow turned into a four grand outlay!

I followed the same train you have just described and ended up with the Yamaha DBR12s, which I am more than happy with, but my overdraft has taken a serious hammering!

They do seem like a good balance, nice and portable, good make, good warranty and people say they sound the part too. At least you started at £500, my £100 system is getting ridiculous

[DazzyD]

They do seem like a good balance, nice and portable, good make, good warranty and people say they sound the part too. At least you started at £500, my £100 system is getting ridiculous

My home hi-fi speakers cost more than that!! :eek: And they are nowhere near good enough for PA.

[sibeer]

My home hi-fi speakers cost more than that!! :eek: And they are nowhere near good enough for PA.

My home cinema would definitely do the job, I use M&K 150's for the front 3 fed from a decent power amp and a 15" Velodyne sub. Wouldn't dream of bouncing them in and out the car and taking to bars though.

Current best two offers I have had are:

Pair used RCF312's for £300
Pair Proel V15a Ex Demo for £425

Neither are very local though :-(

[ukpartydj]

If you buy good speakers wisely you'll get your money back with them anyway so I'd stretch to £300-400 personally.

I bought pair of Mackie SRM450 V1 @ £500 4 years ago / Still working fine / selling on eBay for £350-500.
Then I got a pair of RCF 310a @ £450 2 years ago / Still working fine / selling on eBay for £360 - 440.

I rarely buy anything new though to be honest. Except a fridge ... my Fiance wanted a specific red one and I tried so hard but I couldn't find a used one :(

[sibeer]

If you buy good speakers wisely you'll get your money back with them anyway so I'd stretch to £300-400 personally.

I bought pair of Mackie SRM450 V1 @ £500 4 years ago / Still working fine / selling on eBay for £350-500.
Then I got a pair of RCF 310a @ £450 2 years ago / Still working fine / selling on eBay for £360 - 440.

I rarely buy anything new though to be honest. Except a fridge ... my Fiance wanted a specific red one and I tried so hard but I couldn't find a used one :(

Same here, I generally would rather have a better quality thing with a few miles on the clock rather than a cheaper new product, for example all my hifi and home cinema is 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand. Not knowing as much about this area though and knowing some of the kit will have had a tough life makes it a bit harder to have confidence buying used (well for me it does).

[sibeer]

Final shout people:

Got a 10% of eBay voucher, but only noticed it today and it expires at midnight (feel like Cinderella). This will let me get one of the following:

FBT X-LITE 12A - £650-10% inc stands and covers

Alto Truesonic TS112A - £360-10% manufacture refurbs and with no extras

Yamaha DXR12s - £850-10% - 2nd hand

Yamaha DBR12s - £700-5% - New but sold separate so only 5% discount

EV ZLX-15P - £760-10% inc stands

My gut feeling is the FBTs, but the Alto's seem a bargain and the others are all well viewed

[Excalibur]

Final shout people:

Got a 10% of eBay voucher, but only noticed it today and it expires at midnight (feel like Cinderella). This will let me get one of the following:

FBT X-LITE 12A - £650-10% inc stands and covers

Alto Truesonic TS112A - £360-10% manufacture refurbs and with no extras

Yamaha DXR12s - £850-10% - 2nd hand

Yamaha DBR12s - £700-5% - New but sold separate so only 5% discount

EV ZLX-15P - £760-10% inc stands

My gut feeling is the FBTs, but the Alto's seem a bargain and the others are all well viewed

Yamaha all the way. No question.

HOWEVER: As we all say, it's best to hear speakers before purchasing.

[sibeer]

Yamaha all the way. No question.

HOWEVER: As we all say, it's best to hear speakers before purchasing.

Ah well too late now as I ordered the FBTs as they seemed a better deal and have good feedback. No where local seems to have much to demo so punt and hope.

[Nakatomi]

I heard some dxr 12 last night. Not quite as much bottom end as my Mackies but they weren't even ticking over & boy they were nice & loud.

[Excalibur]

Well obviously late, but last night, I used my new Proel V15A cabs, and for the first time in ages, a guest came up and praised the sound to the hilt. Said her hubby was a sound engineer, and she had a keen ear for sound. She actually thought I was using an install system, as the sound was so even throughout the room.

[sibeer]

Was a little concerned by the 1 year warranty on the Proels. The FBTs turned up today, nice solid kit with a good sound and plenty of power. Sounds like there is a grounding issue though even when plugged in on there own with no audio feed connected. Have messaged the supplier to see what they say.

[Excalibur]

Sounds like there is a grounding issue though even when plugged in on there own with no audio feed connected. Have messaged the supplier to see what they say.
Is there not a ground lift switch on the back? There's one on the Proels. :)

[sibeer]

Is there not a ground lift switch on the back? There's one on the Proels. :)

So with nothing connected and switched on should I expect them to be silent?

[Excalibur]

So with nothing connected and switched on should I expect them to be silent?

Fairly much. Silent, no. Quiet, yes. Plug your playout in, take the faders down on it so no signal is reaching the speakers, and gradually turn the speakers up. The noise level should not be intrusive.

[Benny Smyth]

Fairly much. Silent, no. Quiet, yes. Plug your playout in, take the faders down on it so no signal is reaching the speakers, and gradually turn the speakers up. The noise level should not be intrusive.

Don't listen to him. Crank the levels as high as you can, then press play on some dubstep.*
























































































































*Don't do that. Seriously, listen to Peter.

[sibeer]

Always connect with everything off and levels set to nothing. Turned on the mixer first, then the speakers. The noise stays the same then whether the speakers are on min or max volume.

Have popped an exciting video on Youtube of it. They have a three year warranty so probably not an issue, just doesn't seem quite right


https://youtu.be/zxXV_Z17cpY

[yourdj]

Two modern good brand active speakers should not be making an excessive noise on their own.
May be because you have it in a confined space. (assuming you don't live in a mansion). :)

[Casual77]

Well obviously late, but last night, I used my new Proel V15A cabs, and for the first time in ages, a guest came up and praised the sound to the hilt. Said her hubby was a sound engineer, and she had a keen ear for sound. She actually thought I was using an install system, as the sound was so even throughout the room.

I tried my new bargain Proel Flash 12VAs on Saturday night. I wouldn't say they were quite as good as my Yamaha DBR12s but I certainly wasn't disappointed with them, especially considering that they cost me less than half the price. I should do a side by side comparison but I'm not sure I've got a discerning enough ear to be able to make a reliable comparison between the two.

[Excalibur]

I tried my new bargain Proel Flash 12VAs on Saturday night. I wouldn't say they were quite as good as my Yamaha DBR12s but I certainly wasn't disappointed with them, especially considering that they cost me less than half the price. I should do a side by side comparison but I'm not sure I've got a discerning enough ear to be able to make a reliable comparison between the two.

I tried my Proel V15A on Saturday, and a customer thought I'd installed a system in the whole venue, the sound was so clear and even!! :p:)

[Casual77]

I tried my Proel V15A on Saturday, and a customer thought I'd installed a system in the whole venue, the sound was so clear and even!! :p:)

We will have to arrange a sound test for the various speakers we have between us to see how they stack up against eachother. As I recall, back in the day before I bought the Yamahas, I was strongly considering the Proel V15As but was steered away from making the purchase. It would be interesting to see how they sound compared to the Yamahas to see if I made the right decision going with them.

[Excalibur]

We will have to arrange a sound test for the various speakers we have between us to see how they stack up against eachother. As I recall, back in the day before I bought the Yamahas, I was strongly considering the Proel V15As but was steered away from making the purchase. It would be interesting to see how they sound compared to the Yamahas to see if I made the right decision going with them.

In all seriousness, the Yamahas ought to be the pick of the bunch, although I've seen an American site where the lad rated his FBT above Yamahas! Methinks a lot of us will be heading to Coalville next year. :)

The main thing is being happy with what you've got. I'm very happy with my current options, and the 15s fit into the grand scheme of things nicely. I had an old pair of 12" QTX, which served me very well, but recently I realised I was unlikely to ever use them, unless the LDs had a fit. Now I've got the Proels, I have a choice.

[sibeer]

In all seriousness, the Yamahas ought to be the pick of the bunch, although I've seen an American site where the lad rated his FBT above Yamahas! Methinks a lot of us will be heading to Coalville next year. :)

The main thing is being happy with what you've got. I'm very happy with my current options, and the 15s fit into the grand scheme of things nicely. I had an old pair of 12" QTX, which served me very well, but recently I realised I was unlikely to ever use them, unless the LDs had a fit. Now I've got the Proels, I have a choice.

Think I must have seen the same thread with the guy preferring the FBT's. The sound out of them seems excellent, just don't like random noise for no reason. It's no worse than some other things I own like the UPS for my server, just unexpected.

[Excalibur]

Think I must have seen the same thread with the guy preferring the FBT's. The sound out of them seems excellent, just don't like random noise for no reason. It's no worse than some other things I own like the UPS for my server, just unexpected.

Two things.
1) Try it at another venue, as sometimes that can have an effect on things. Unlikely, but not unheard of.
2) Are you feeding them with a laptop? Sometimes that can cause noise issues, which can be cured by Ground Loop Isolators. ( GLI ) That's a lottery, as some laptops introduce no noise, some are awful. Just compare it by unplugging the power supply to the laptop while it's all wired up, and see if there's any change.

[soundscapes]

Is everybody using Actives these days ? I much prefer the sound from a proper wooden cab.
That said I'm looking at plastic cabs for the sake of my back.
Any thoughts on carlsbro orion 15/300's or wharfedale titans ?

[Nakatomi]

Not all actives are plastic ;)

Yamaha DSR series, EV ELX series (suffixed with 'P')... and plenty more.

[Imagine]

Not all actives are plastic ;)

Yamaha DSR series, EV ELX series (suffixed with 'P')... and plenty more.



I'll vouch for the DSR's not being plastic....I think my 18" is made of cast iron - it weighs a ton!

Going back a little to one of Peter's posts about Yammy kit - most of you will know I normally roll with a pair of DXR15's - best £1400 I ever spent, and nine times out of ten, I don't take the DSR with me. I know it's considered poor form due to losing the top range, but put those on the floor with no crossover on them and they belt out the sound like you wouldn't believe....there really is no need most nights to take a sub out.

That said - I'm looking for something a little lighter next year. I quite fancy going for the Yammy DXR12's (not heard them so don't know what sort of low end punch they give), but mainly due to the fact I can put them in the air without breaking several discs in my back. Also...what are these lollipop systems (aka the Bose sticks stuck in a tiny sub type systems) really like? Do they really give out enough punch to fill a venue?

I'll obviously go and listen to them in the flesh before parting with any folding stuff, but opinions from those of you using them in the field would be appreciated.


I had an old pair of 12" QTX, which served me very well, but recently I realised I was unlikely to ever use them, unless the LDs had a fit. Now I've got the Proels, I have a choice.

I too own three of those (one has a "popped" bass driver in it). I also have a brace of the QTX15 active subs (flimsy little things). They haven't left my lock up for the past year, such is the confidence in my Yamaha kit. I used to take them as spares "just in case"...these days though, if I pop a Yammy (unlikely), then the other one will soldier on with no problems. If I pop both Yammy's....it's time to break down and go home ;)

[ukpartydj]

Also...what are these lollipop systems (aka the Bose sticks stuck in a tiny sub type systems) really like? Do they really give out enough punch to fill a venue?

I'll obviously go and listen to them in the flesh before parting with any folding stuff, but opinions from those of you using them in the field would be appreciated.

I had a bose l2 system for a very short time. Sounded good in small venues but I didn't like it. I know a couple of DJs with a similar rcf system which is much better on my opinion after hearing them many times. I personally can't get my head around the price though. I'm very much a second hand rcf type buyer so my £800 2 rcf tops and a sub will probably blow these lightweight £2000 systems away. But they're clearly not designed to be powerful but lightweight small medium sized venue systems. I do about 5 "big" gigs a year (200+ guests) and i reckon the bose wouldn't be good for that and the rcf lollipop would struggle where mine is quite happy. It's the one off 350+ gigs where I start to throw more at it!

Spoke to sound engineer last weekend and he said the 10" top speakers are what he recommends to everybody as the perfect sized Speaker for mid sounds... I've not heard these line arrays being pushed hard but I cannot imagine 2" speakers are gonna be comparable personally.

[Imagine]

Thanks David - that's actually exactly what I expected to hear.

I belong to a lot of forums/FB groups and these "lollipop" systems have their lovers, and a lot of haters. I've never actually heard them in the flesh yet though so very sceptical as to what they can do.

I have a couple of passive RCA 12" in the store which don't come out these days due to one falling from height and having to be re-soldered....I haven't trusted it since then (the wire's just a little too tight for my liking).

Maybe I need to carry those as backups as they sounded unreal when they were in full time use ;)

[Excalibur]

Active and passive each have their pluses and minuses, as do wood and plastic. I have wooden twelves and plastic fifteens, both pairs active. My subs are passive for two reasons, main one being cost, secondary one weight, though nowadays, weight is becoming less of an obstacle, as amps get lighter.

The stick systems, well I think the consensus is that the RCF Evox is the yardstick to measure others by. The LD Curve is well regarded by many who heard it at BPM. ( Sadly, I didn't. ) For budget conscious folk, the LD Maui in various sizes is worth a look.

To try to answer Simon's question, the Carlsboro ones,I have no idea, the Titans have had new amps. The older models were awesome cabs, but prone to a fault in the amp.

What would I suggest as contenders? If you don't need to deafen a thousand people, QTX is worth a look, preferably the higher grade models. Alto TS does the job well enough for a few bob more, and is money well spent. After that, LD GT ( wooden, by the way ) would be on my list, and if the budget stretches, HK is very impressive stuff.

Good luck with the search, Simon.

[yourdj]

I had a DJ working for me with a Bose stick sort o thing this weekend.
It was awesome for background as it covered the whole room kind of the same.

He pulled out a Mackie v2 when the party started though!

I have worked with a DJ with Bose speakers and it deafened me as the systems are so 180 degrees or so.
I personally like to direct my sound and have some power.

The stick systems look good IMO and are noticed by clients/staff. Not sure where 'lollipop' came from, glad I don't indulge on Facebook.
My 'manager" said the other day "oh the DJ they other day had a very pretty speaker in the ceremony (white bose L1)"
Completely ignored/did not notice the fact I had just bought a DBR 12 Yamaha for ceremonies. :)

If I went active I would probably still choose two 12 inch tops. Probably yamaha DXR's.

[Nakatomi]

Thanks David - that's actually exactly what I expected to hear.

I belong to a lot of forums/FB groups and these "lollipop" systems have their lovers, and a lot of haters. I've never actually heard them in the flesh yet though so very sceptical as to what they can do.

I have a couple of passive RCA 12" in the store which don't come out these days due to one falling from height and having to be re-soldered....I haven't trusted it since then (the wire's just a little too tight for my liking).

Maybe I need to carry those as backups as they sounded unreal when they were in full time use ;)

I've heard RCF Evox, Bose L1 (BLECH!) & FBT Vertus CLA recently... it'd be a toss-up between the RCF Evox & FBT Vertus CLA for me, but at almost 3 grand I don't think they're worth it unless you really need a small footprint and easy carry. 'Ok sounding' would about sum up my opinion of them. Sure they look nicer than mahoosive speakers but the sound just isn't anything like as good as with honking great big boxes.

Having heard a longer more varied demo of the LD Systems Curv, it seems there's a big hole in the frequency response (polar opposite to the L1 from Bose, which has (to my ears) a massive peak in the midrange). Great bass, great tops, but where the heck is the midbass/lower mid?

My next purchase will be an active sub. Just the one for now. Maybe even an LD Dave, then I just keep my active tops for backup duty. The more I work parties of 100+ people without at least one bin, the more I'm of the opinion I definitely need one.

[Corabar Steve]

If you think about LD Systems, the MAUI range is worth a look.

[Excalibur]

For budget conscious folk, the LD Maui in various sizes is worth a look.



If you think about LD Systems, the MAUI range is worth a look.

Blimey, there's an echo in here. :D:D

A quick search reveals four size options. I'd expect the big one to be almost a halfway house between compact rigs and " full size " ones. I know one forum member has his heart set on a Curv, and I'm sure we'll get a few reviews of it, if he does so.

[soundscapes]

Has anybody heard the db cromo' s running yet ?