In need of some sound advice

[Casual77]

I've received a booking on a night that I already have another booking (coincidentally both 18th birthday parties) and have entrusted my 19 year old step son, James, to do the second one as his first solo gig. He's going to need some more training on the music front but he is an Events Management undergraduate currently and feels that it will be good experience for him. Surprisingly, he doesn't seem at all fazed by the size of the event or at having to speak on the microphone so I'm hoping he can pull it off reasonably well. I'm happy that I have sufficient lighting to run both gigs concurrently but the problem is that I'm definitely coming up a bit short on the speaker front.

The gig that James has been landed with is by far the bigger of the two, but unfortunately we can't really swap at this stage. His gig will be indoors in a large function room and will have between 150-200 guests. Mine is a much smaller affair in a garden marquis with around 60 guests. My speaker collection consists of a pair of Yamaha DBR12As, an Alto TS Sub15 and a pair of W Audio PSR8As. Normally I just go to gigs with the pair of Yamahas and occasionally add the sub for larger venues and I only bought the W Audio 8" speakers because they were a good price and I thought they might come in handy for kids parties. Ideally, I'm thinking James could do with having the Yamahas and sub for his gig but on this occasion he may just have to make do with the Yamahas alone. That would then leave me a potential combination of the sub with the 8" W Audio speakers.

I've been to sound test this possible set-up this evening to see if I think it would be suitable for the garden party and, to be honest, I'm not sure whether I think it is, or not. I'm used to the warm, full bodied sound that I get from the Yamahas and the sound from this set up was clearly not as pleasant on the ear. On a positive note, the top end from the 8" speakers was very crisp (if a little 'tinny') and the sub produced a decent low end rumble but there was definitely something lacking in the mid range. Having said that I'm used to hearing the Yamahas from behind them and not from the dancefloor perspective I was judging this set-up from, so maybe it was not a fair comparison.

So, the question I'm left with is whether it is acceptable to use 8" tops with a 15" sub or is it a ridiculous idea? If it is acceptable, what is the best way to set it up to get a reasonable sound? The best I could seem to manage was by using the full-range outputs on the sub and then boosting the bass slightly and lowering the treble on the DJ controller. That seemed to get the nicest sound out of the speakers and then I gradually turned up the volume on the sub until it could just be heard over the speakers to fatten up the sound without the bass becoming too over-powering. Is that the best way to set it up or is there a better way to approach it?

Also, is it normal that the back panels on the W Audio speakers became really hot after only about half an hour's use? Would I need to be concerned about them overheating and shutting themselves down if I used them continuously for a five hour party?

[yourdj]

I've received a booking on a night that I already have another booking (coincidentally both 18th birthday parties) and have entrusted my 19 year old step son, James, to do the second one as his first solo gig. He's going to need some more training on the music front but he is an Events Management undergraduate currently and feels that it will be good experience for him. Surprisingly, he doesn't seem at all fazed by the size of the event or at having to speak on the microphone so I'm hoping he can pull it off reasonably well. I'm happy that I have sufficient lighting to run both gigs concurrently but the problem is that I'm definitely coming up a bit short on the speaker front.

The gig that James has been landed with is by far the bigger of the two, but unfortunately we can't really swap at this stage. His gig will be indoors in a large function room and will have between 150-200 guests. Mine is a much smaller affair in a garden marquis with around 60 guests. My speaker collection consists of a pair of Yamaha DBR12As, an Alto TS Sub15 and a pair of W Audio PSR8As. Normally I just go to gigs with the pair of Yamahas and occasionally add the sub for larger venues and I only bought the W Audio 8" speakers because they were a good price and I thought they might come in handy for kids parties. Ideally, I'm thinking James could do with having the Yamahas and sub for his gig but on this occasion he may just have to make do with the Yamahas alone. That would then leave me a potential combination of the sub with the 8" W Audio speakers.

I've been to sound test this possible set-up this evening to see if I think it would be suitable for the garden party and, to be honest, I'm not sure whether I think it is, or not. I'm used to the warm, full bodied sound that I get from the Yamahas and the sound from this set up was clearly not as pleasant on the ear. On a positive note, the top end from the 8" speakers was very crisp (if a little 'tinny') and the sub produced a decent low end rumble but there was definitely something lacking in the mid range. Having said that I'm used to hearing the Yamahas from behind them and not from the dancefloor perspective I was judging this set-up from, so maybe it was not a fair comparison.

So, the question I'm left with is whether it is acceptable to use 8" tops with a 15" sub or is it a ridiculous idea? If it is acceptable, what is the best way to set it up to get a reasonable sound? The best I could seem to manage was by using the full-range outputs on the sub and then boosting the bass slightly and lowering the treble on the DJ controller. That seemed to get the nicest sound out of the speakers and then I gradually turned up the volume on the sub until it could just be heard over the speakers to fatten up the sound without the bass becoming too over-powering. Is that the best way to set it up or is there a better way to approach it?

Also, is it normal that the back panels on the W Audio speakers became really hot after only about half an hour's use? Would I need to be concerned about them overheating and shutting themselves down if I used them continuously for a five hour party?

I would hire/buy/borrow another sub or totally different PA for the garden party. An 18th with 150 people (there is never as many people as they say in 18ths) will need good sound especially with R&B etc. Your son will also feel confident that he has been entrusted with the best kit. Bigger pair of actives perhaps for the garden party and forget the altos perhaps? Might be worth buying a set of the cheaper Yamahas if this is going the a regular thing? deduct it from your sons pay over a few events. I am literally discussing deducting nappy funds from my newborn when/if he starts DJing for me at some point as he gets through tons of them each day. ;)

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pa-live/detail.asp?stock=14090910113610&gclid=CjwKEAjwsvmvBRCT5ozK-dmY7D4SJACyIoJmlcIRBqJ32SoUfQDUB22uEOjVzg9jjs_OJM5 lR-UyxhoCE9_w_wcB

[Casual77]

I would hire/buy/borrow another sub or totally different PA for the garden party. An 18th with 150 people (there is never as many people as they say in 18ths) will need good sound especially with R&B etc. Your son will also feel confident that he has been entrusted with the best kit. Bigger pair of actives perhaps for the garden party and forget the altos perhaps? Might be worth buying a set of the cheaper Yamahas if this is going the a regular thing? deduct it from your sons pay over a few events. I am literally discussing deducting nappy funds from my newborn when/if he starts DJing for me at some point as he gets through tons of them each day. ;)

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/pa-live/detail.asp?stock=14090910113610&gclid=CjwKEAjwsvmvBRCT5ozK-dmY7D4SJACyIoJmlcIRBqJ32SoUfQDUB22uEOjVzg9jjs_OJM5 lR-UyxhoCE9_w_wcB

Thanks Toby.

The speakers you have linked to are the speakers I already own. I have considered buying a second pair of cheaper 12" actives but I have an issue with storage space at home and I'm not sure if this will be a regular thing or not. It potentially could be but if James does this gig and decides it is not for him it might be the last one he does and the speakers would be an unnecessary expense. I think I need to get him through this first gig and then make a decision about whether to buy extra equipment.

Hiring is not really an option either because there isn't enough money in the gig to justify the expense.

[Benny Smyth]

I actually prefer the sound of my 8 inch tops with my 15 inch sub over the 12 inch top/15 inch sub combo. I'll obviously use the latter if I need the bigger sound but as a general rule, if I feel that I can get away with the 8 inch tops, I'll use them.

As for the W Audio heating up, mine used to do that. Used to take longer than half hour though - is it too hot to touch?

[Casual77]

I actually prefer the sound of my 8 inch tops with my 15 inch sub over the 12 inch top/15 inch sub combo. I'll obviously use the latter if I need the bigger sound but as a general rule, if I feel that I can get away with the 8 inch tops, I'll use them.

As for the W Audio heating up, mine used to do that. Used to take longer than half hour though - is it too hot to touch?

I wouldn't say 'too hot to touch' but certainly hotter than I would expect them to get after such a short time.

Would you consider the 8" tops/15" sub to be a suitable combo for a small garden party gig then? Out of interest, what percentage of your gigs would you use that kind of set-up on and what 8" tops do you use?

I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

[Benny Smyth]

I wouldn't say 'too hot to touch' but certainly hotter than I would expect them to get after such a short time.

Would you consider the 8" tops/15" sub to be a suitable combo for a small garden party gig then? Out of interest, what percentage of your gigs would you use that kind of set-up on and what 8" tops do you use?

I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

I sold my W Audios to Dicky a few months back (maybe even last year). Maybe he can shed some light on this, but I don't remember them getting hot that quickly.

I don't see why the 8 inch tops/15 inch sub combo wouldn't work - it would depend on the size of the marquee. All my speakers are RCF, and I use two subs for pretty much all my gigs and for a small marquee, I'd use 2 905a Subs and 408 Tops. For larger marquees, I'd swap the 408s for my 712s.

As for the latter part of your post, bad idea. If you're having to buy kit to cater for a gig, you shouldn't have accepted the gig in the first place.

[funkymook]

My thoughts are - hire the kit and forget profit on this one (it can’t be paying much anyway). Let your son manage the equipment hire and logistics and deal with the clients.

Then if he fancies doing more DJ’ing after this one he can do a business plan and work out the best way forward.

It will all be invaluable experience for his future Event Management career, there’s nothing like seeing the job from all angles and it will look very good on his CV.

[Nakatomi]

My thoughts are - hire the kit and forget profit on this one (it can’t be paying much anyway). Let your son manage the equipment hire and logistics and deal with the clients.

Then if he fancies doing more DJ’ing after this one he can do a business plan and work out the best way forward.

It will all be invaluable experience for his future Event Management career, there’s nothing like seeing the job from all angles and it will look very good on his CV.

:like: :agree:

[Pe7e]

the speakers would be an unnecessary expense.

Personally I think having back-up equipment is a necessary expense, and you don't currently seem to have any, look at it as an investment.


Hiring is not really an option either because there isn't enough money in the gig to justify the expense.

IMO a pair of 12" actives on their own is insufficient for an 18th birthday disco for 200 people in a large'ish venue, and to contemplate using a pair of potentially faulty 8" actives for an 18th birthday bash in a marquee, is verging on the ridiculous. Do you really think saving £25 - £30 on hire costs justifies putting two birthday parties (and your own reputation) at risk?


I've just had a quick scan on eBay and there is a pair of Alto TX12's I could pick up locally for under £200 which could be worth considering. If I go down that route and decide I don't need them I can probably move them on again without losing much, which would seem a more sensible option than hiring a PA system for the night.

That would be a more sensible option

[ppentertainments]

IMO a pair of 12" actives on their own is insufficient for an 18th birthday disco for 200 people in a large'ish venue, and to contemplate using a pair of potentially faulty 8" actives for an 18th birthday bash in a marquee, is verging on the ridiculous. Do you really think saving £25 - £30 on hire costs justifies putting two birthday parties (and your own reputation) at risk?
Whilst I totally agree, where can you hire a decent set of speakers for £25-30 ??

[Pe7e]

Whilst I totally agree, where can you hire a decent set of speakers for £25-30 ??

Off me, I often hire 12" actives speakers out at 'trade prices' to genuine local DJs, (as some forum members can testify)

[Excalibur]

Whilst I totally agree, where can you hire a decent set of speakers for £25-30 ??

:whistle: We know, don't we children. :)

[Nakatomi]

:whistle: We know, don't we children. :)

Nope. Wish I did!

[yourdj]

Thanks Toby.

The speakers you have linked to are the speakers I already own. Hiring is not really an option either because there isn't enough money in the gig to justify the expense.

Ah sorry I misread it as DXR's (5.30am posting, on baby duty). As per the posts I would not look at the money if its a cheap gig and imagine what would happen if you or your son have a technical problem on the night. The 8 inters and a sub would suffice as my guess is the overheating is due to them being driven too hard? An active sub should only cost about £30 dry hire for the night.


Whilst I totally agree, where can you hire a decent set of speakers for £25-30 ??

This is my local hire company (a national dj supply company mind you) hire their FBT 15 inch sub is £25: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/hire/index.php?heading=Sound&subheading=Speakers&gz=2&gclid=CjwKEAjw1f6vBRC7tLqO_aih5WISJAAE0CYwbxYmPIj3 lP38jnLd1Xvh3ctSkllz9e6DLpDC8DyXshoCKabw_wcB


It will all be invaluable experience for his future Event Management career, there’s nothing like seeing the job from all angles and it will look very good on his CV.

i would ditch the 8 inch speakers, and use one or two of the 12's as back up, then you have a duplicate system should they get damaged/nicked. I have a rule that as soon as something fails once then i sell it. i use mine for ceremonies and back up behind the booth, its brilliant for that. Agreed, the good kit will also make him more confident in his abilities and also your trust in him. If he is doing event management I would assume that he will carry on with PA and management of events etc. Get him to order, collect and drop off the sub etc. or alternative PA. :)

[Excalibur]

:whistle: We know, don't we children. :)


Nope. Wish I did!

Wasn't rocket science. Take a wild stab in the dark. Who do we know who's reasonably local to Allan, and has a four box 1.5K rig gathering dust, four twin 15" full range cabs, a spare sub or three, and a pair of twelve inch QTX available for nominal sums?

Time available 1 hour, please write on only one side of the paper.

[Benny Smyth]

Wasn't rocket science. Take a wild stab in the dark. Who do we know who's reasonably local to Allan, and has a four box 1.5K rig gathering dust, four twin 15" full range cabs, a spare sub or three, and a pair of twelve inch QTX available for nominal sums?

Time available 1 hour, please write on only one side of the paper.

Whoever it is must have a really long name.

[Casual77]

This is why I love this forum. It's great for bouncing around ideas and getting different viewpoints.

I took the second gig on primarily because the client was in a bit of a fix and I like to be helpful where I can. The fact is that I could probably run the garden party with the 8" tops and sub and James could use the 12" Yamahas but both setups would be a bit under-powered.

I take the point about hiring being a good idea, but I think Pe7e's point about needing a back-up pair of speakers as being necessary is even more pertinent. Up to now I have relied on the Yamahas being reliable and backed up by an excellent warranty, but if one did develop a fault or I accidentally dropped and damaged one I would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle until I could get it fixed. However, if I buy the cheap second-hand Alto 12"s I can let James use those in conjunction with the matching 15" sub and feel confident he will have enough oomph for his gig and that would leave me with my beloved Yamahas which I know are more than up to the garden party having done a similar one in Harrogate this weekend. That way I know I'm covered if James does want to do any further gigs and if he doesn't it certainly won't do me any harm having a pair of competent back-ups for my Yamaha 12"s. I've got back-ups for everything else I use and now that I'm getting booked up every weekend it is a little daft for me not to have back-ups for what is essentially the most important part of my DJ setup.

I don't think the PSR8As are faulty (I gather they generally get hot) but I don't think they should be used as main gig speakers. I will still keep hold of them because they are useful as second room satellite speakers which is why I bought them in the first place.

So, the question that remains is.... Are the Alto TX12s any good or is there something else that is better for under £250?


Wasn't rocket science. Take a wild stab in the dark. Who do we know who's reasonably local to Allan, and has a four box 1.5K rig gathering dust, four twin 15" full range cabs, a spare sub or three, and a pair of twelve inch QTX available for nominal sums?

Time available 1 hour, please write on only one side of the paper.

Matthew? Edward? DaveSounds? Oh, I give in!!

Ok.... assuming you are talking about your good self, Peter, do you have anything that you think I would be wise to consider before I offer £180 for the pair of 5 month old Alto TX12s?

[Nakatomi]

Doh!

Mutters something about needing to put another rig together for xmas parties...

Still, the spare pa will doubtless prove its worth one day.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

Your not to far from us. We can hire you a sound system Depending on budget from a pair of w-audio 12a to 10K FBT can be split down

[Casual77]

Your not to far from us. We can hire you a sound system Depending on budget from a pair of w-audio 12a to 10K FBT can be split down

I appreciate the offer but this thread has highlighted my lack of back-up speakers and renting would only provide a short-term fix to a long-term problem. I think buying the second hand pair of Alto TX12s as back up for my Yamahas is looking like the best way for me to go.

[deltic]

You may find the Alto tx12's a bit underpowered,if it's Alto you are after look at the ts12 slightly more power.

[Excalibur]

You may find the Alto tx12's a bit underpowered,if it's Alto you are after look at the ts12 slightly more power.

Agreed. The specs on the TX aren't at all impressive.

[Casual77]

Hmmm... well I guess I'll soon find out because I stuck an offer on and it was accepted.

I can't see them getting much use but they should hopefully provide a passable solution for James' gig if paired with the Alto sub. If it turns out they aren't up to much and not worth keeping as back-ups I'm sure I can stick them back on ebay and get most of my money back on them.

[Nakatomi]

For my 'spare' pa I was thinking about going with alto Ts115 but I'm now thinking about RCF, EV and Yamaha 12" actives. They can likely stand on their own at small gigs, not sure a ten inch active would please my ear without a sub but ultimately I'll be getting a sub or two. I think the alto 15s might be a waste of money so I've extended my budget a tad. RCF are sightly over but I'm reading good things about the budget Yamaha & EV speakers. Fbt have their advocates & I'll consider auditioning some if I can.

But there's the rub. Auditioning speakers. Around here there's phase one, but they don't stock RCF or Yamaha. Further afield there are outlets in Newcastle who sell pa, but it's all either cheap crap (qtx etc) or very top end gear with nothing in the middle.

I'm willing to drive up to 80 miles each way though... Where can I find a seller of compact, lightweight, reliable speakers and be able to try them against my Mackies?

Mister total event solutions will likely pipe up I can go there but which brands do you stock?

I should add that I'm not tied to any brand in particular. All I'm after is a set of light (er than my Mackies), fairly punchy speakers under 650 quid I can use without a sub initially and later with sub(s). And the most important bit, I ain't buying without trying!

[Casual77]

Well, I collected the Alto speakers last night and they are pretty much immaculate. I'll be giving them a sound check tonight and I don't expect that they will be all that great but in conjunction with the Alto sub they should hopefully be good enough to get James through his gig next month, and at £170 for the pair I can't really expect much more than that. I suspect I will probably sell them on within a few months and recycle the proceeds towards a better pair.

I can highly recommend the Yamaha DBR12 Actives Justin and if you fancy venturing down to Barnsley you would be welcome to have a listen to see what you think. I've used them on their own for about 80% of the gigs I've done so far and they have always been up to the job.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

Waiting for the rcf evox 12 to land at my suppliers and will be more than happy to demo it

[Nakatomi]

Waiting for the rcf evox 12 to land at my suppliers and will be more than happy to demo it

Yeah. Just a wee bit out of budget, that one. I was only impressed by the LD & HK compact systems I heard at BPM. All the others in the lineup either screeched in the midrange or didn't have enough bass - or both. Yay for compacts :/

[yourdj]

Yeah. Just a wee bit out of budget, that one. I was only impressed by the LD & HK compact systems I heard at BPM. All the others in the lineup either screeched in the midrange or didn't have enough bass - or both. Yay for compacts :/

Those Yamahas will be hot Ebay pickings in a couple of years time second hand at £150 - £200 each they will be a total bargain. :)
I can't see anyone parting with a pair for at least that long as they are great value for money.

[Nakatomi]

Those Yamahas will be hot Ebay pickings in a couple of years time second hand at £150 - £200 each they will be a total bargain. :)
I can't see anyone parting with a pair for at least that long as they are great value for money.


Doubtless they will, but I need this pa gear by the end of next month. I found a place in York carrying RCF, EV, Yamaha & Alto so maybe they'd be good bet. Their prices aren't great but I guess that's the cost of trying before you buy. Maybe they'll do a price match on interweb prices....

In an ideal world I'd be able to wait til I've been to Coalville next year. Alas no. And Sids law dictates that as soon as I buy brand new kit, a raft of second hand gear appears just down the road.

I think by avoiding the alto 15 I'll be saving myself money in the long run since my long term goal is to operate with quality tops & subs. That and better gear holds its value for longer. Looking around I could get what I paid for my Mackies when I finally get rid.

[Casual77]

I tested the Altos last night and wasn't overly impressed. They would do a job for this gig next month at a push, but I'm not sure I would want to fall back on them if anything happened to my Yamaha speakers.

I guess I can see what 'underpowered' means now. They are certainly loud but the sound lacks the warmth and refinement I would be looking for so I think I will sell them on and fork out a bit more for something better.

Has anyone tried the Wharfedale Titan 12Ds because there are a pair of those that I might be able to pick up within my budget? Or, does anyone have anything decent they are looking to sell that might fit the bill?

[Nakatomi]

I tested the Altos last night and wasn't overly impressed. They would do a job for this gig next month at a push, but I'm not sure I would want to fall back on them if anything happened to my Yamaha speakers.

I guess I can see what 'underpowered' means now. They are certainly loud but the sound lacks the warmth and refinement I would be looking for so I think I will sell them on and fork out a bit more for something better.

Has anyone tried the Wharfedale Titan 12Ds because there are a pair of those that I might be able to pick up within my budget? Or, does anyone have anything decent they are looking to sell that might fit the bill?

What I know of alto is that it's great for the money. That is for something so cheap it's a wonder it isn't totally crap :)

I wish whybuynew were just around the corner!

Gah. Now it looks like my place in York haven't got stock of the DBR 12. There's time yet I suppose.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

just took stock of the fbt xpro 12a 1000w rms rrp £428 each

[yourdj]

I tested the Altos last night and wasn't overly impressed. They would do a job for this gig next month at a push, but I'm not sure I would want to fall back on them if anything happened to my Yamaha speakers.

I guess I can see what 'underpowered' means now. They are certainly loud but the sound lacks the warmth and refinement I would be looking for so I think I will sell them on and fork out a bit more for something better.

Has anyone tried the Wharfedale Titan 12Ds because there are a pair of those that I might be able to pick up within my budget? Or, does anyone have anything decent they are looking to sell that might fit the bill?

i bet you end up with another set of Yamaha's or similar.
I vowe not to buy any cheap crap after getting a set of QTX (shocking SPL). Quality / power vs cost its just not worth it. :)


What I know of alto is that it's great for the money. That is for something so cheap it's a wonder it isn't totally crap :)

I wish whybuynew were just around the corner!

Gah. Now it looks like my place in York haven't got stock of the DBR 12. There's time yet I suppose.

Never done any tests on site, depite living down the road from blue Aran and not too far from RSD. i tend to go on weight, dimensions, Max SPL, functions (e.g. high pass, separate mic channel) brand and other peoples opinions. I bought the Yamaha completely blind just based on the brands reputation and specs. Plenty of vs type posts and videos on youtube. I saw a few votes saying that they were as good sounding as the DXR's which was enough for me given the £270 price tag b-stock (why buy new)

[Nakatomi]

If WBN had any b stock dbr 12 they'd already be on their way to me I suspect.

[Casual77]

I PM'd Juski to ask his thoughts on what details in the specification of different speakers i should be looking at. He responded with these words of wisdom and suggested that I copy it into the thread for the benefit of anyone else who, like me, doesn't really know what he should be looking at....


"It used to be the case that manufacturers would publish the response curves of their products. That is you could see at first glance how low & high they go, and how flat. Not any more.

What we're left with is statistics & lies. Product specs like frequency response are given in -10dB limits unless they say otherwise.

Ignore wattage. Look at max continuous spl at 1 metre. Even that isn't enough to go by though. The 128dB might come from a ferocious peak at the crossover frequency (Mackie!)

You really should audition anything you're going to buy, even more important when they're second hand. They may 'work' but may have been damaged through over driving or have had dodgy drivers replaced, or crossovers removed etc.

I was considering the EV ZXL12p and the Yamaha Dbr 12. The EV I'd cheaper but appears not to go as low as the Yamaha, nor as loud. I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe Yamaha specs about max spl though! I really am going to have a demo of both so I can make up my mind.

You might be better off buying a pair of Ts 112 or 115 new & selling them on in the near future.

Or consider this: any working speaker used as backup is better than none at all."

I have to admit some of that still managed to go over my head. I'm not sure I would know a good response curve from a bad one.

[Nakatomi]

Well, what you look for in a response curve is for it to be as close to a straight line as possible. You want a speaker to respond equally to all frequencies, as far as possible. Bumps or peaks mean its frequency response is uneven, meaning some frequencies might be more pronounced than others - or there may even be a 'gap' where some parts of the music just seem to disappear.

No speaker ever has completely flat response - i.e. a straight line... unfortunately. The laws of physics, limitations of materials & workmanship.. all of that mean there are compromises made all over the show. The more you pay for your gear, the more likely the compromise was made towards sound quality not cost.

Frequency response isn't the whole story though.. ohhhh no.

Put bluntly.. a speaker wot retails at 400 quids is never gonna sound as nice as one which costs 2 grand. Unless the latter is a Bose piece of crap :D

[yourdj]

I'm inclined to believe Yamaha specs about max spl though!

Yes its definitely accurate with any speaker i have bought. Thats what attracted me to the Yamaha as the specs were great for the price.
My RCF 310's are 126-7 (I think) and only run them on 150 watts each (satellite outs from the Dave Sub). :)

[Nakatomi]

Yes its definitely accurate. I always use Max SPL and they are very loud/rich for the size.
My RCF 310's are 127 (I think) and only run them on 150 watts each (satellite outs from the Dave Sub). :)

Max SPL might only be for 1 millisecond though ;) Max continuous SPL would be a better gauge. Mind you, 131dB at one metre is gonna be uncomfortable as hell. Who needs a subsafe then? :D

[Casual77]

i bet you end up with another set of Yamaha's or similar.

You could well be right there because I'm currently having a bit of a radical re-think on the back-up speaker issue. I think if I go for a pair of cheaper back up speakers with lower specification than the Yamaha DBR12As I will always think that they are inferior and not feel overly comfortable using them.

Perhaps what I need to do is think about where I would like to end up and I'm now thinking I may be better off looking at something better than the DBR12As so that they become my back up speakers, or speakers that I choose to use on smaller gigs. So, I may be better pushing the boat out for some decent 15" speakers, such as the Yamaha DXR15As or the DBR15As as a cheaper alternative. If I then get shut of the Alto TSub 15 and replace it with one, and eventually two, Yamaha 15" subs I should have a high quality sound system for any gig I'm ever likely to want to do.

[Pe7e]

I think you will soon get fed up of carting a pair of 15" actives around to jobs that usually actually only need a pair of 12" ones. I solved the problem of back up by buying one extra active speaker the same make/model as the pair I was using. Since it's almost unthinkable both your actives will fail simultaneously, you are only ever going to need one, so why buy a pair, use the money you save to buy a half decent 15" sub for when a booking needs that bit extra bass.

[Pe7e]

Just had a look on the WBN website regarding Yamaha DSR112 speakers, there's some strange pricing going on there, a B stock speaker is £80 MORE expensive than a brand new one, and it's £22 more expensive to buy a pair of them (as a pair) than it is to buy 2 individual ones. weird or what?

[Casual77]

I think you will soon get fed up of carting a pair of 15" actives around to jobs that usually actually only need a pair of 12" ones. I solved the problem of back up by buying one extra active speaker the same make/model as the pair I was using. Since it's almost unthinkable both your actives will fail simultaneously, you are only ever going to need one, so why buy a pair, use the money you save to buy a half decent 15" sub for when a booking needs that bit extra bass.

There is a lot of sense in that, other than that it wouldn't solve my problem of needing a second pair of speakers for the occasions when my step-son does gigs for me on nights when I'm working. I know that in turn leads to an argument of needing two more speakers so that we both have back-up but for the time being I would be prepared to take my chance that we would be ok, especially as the one gig may end up being his first and last if he doesn't enjoy doing it.

I'm thinking that ultimately I would like to have a pair of DBR12As (which I already own), a pair of decent 15" actives (probably DXR15As or DBR15As), a pair of Yamaha DXS15 subs and the 8" W Audio actives. That should give me plenty of scope for a decent set-up for all size gigs, apart from the very largest, as well as adequate back-up if any of my speakers stop working. I already own an Alto TSub15 which is reasonable but it's definitely on my list of things to upgrade when I get the money to do so.