New Consumer Rights Laws come into force today... does this affect DJs?

[dicky]

Just a quicky before I go out to work

New consumer rights laws come into force today - this is all over the news
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/biggest-overhaul-of-consumer-rights-in-a-generation

The include amongst other things

*consumers having a clear right to demand that substandard services are redone or failing that receive a price reduction

*consumers being able to challenge terms and conditions which are not fair or are hidden in the small print

How would you think that effects mobile DJ, especially 'crap' ones?

Rich

[Benny Smyth]

Would be interesting to see how this plays out, but surely decisions can only be made on things that can be measured...I can't think of the actual word that I'm looking for. But you know what I mean.

Decisions could be marked on punctuality (an example used on that website), whether sound and lighting was provided but I'm struggling to think of what else beyond that. Playing requests? If you have a clause in the contract saying that the DJ holds overall creative control of the music, then that's out of the window. I guess it all can be boiled down to what you say. If you have on your website that you guarantee that people will be dancing all night long, does that open you up for trouble?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Doesn't just mean crap ones. I've worked on a few events when clients have gone 180 on their views of suppliers for the evening (think they overspent the budget and trying to craw some back). If it's measurable things such as being late then fair enough but what if your start time states 7 pm and you don't start until 8 pm because the venue decided to move the tables from the other end of the room for example.

Not sure if I've had my head burried in the sand though but not heard of this until your post so I don't think it's widespread information

[Nakatomi]

Would be interesting to see how this plays out, but surely decisions can only be made on things that can be measured...I can't think of the actual word that I'm looking for. But you know what I mean.

Decisions could be marked on punctuality (an example used on that website), whether sound and lighting was provided but I'm struggling to think of what else beyond that. Playing requests? If you have a clause in the contract saying that the DJ holds overall creative control of the music, then that's out of the window. I guess it all can be boiled down to what you say. If you have on your website that you guarantee that people will be dancing all night long, does that open you up for trouble?

I've sometimes wondered how people are going to guarantee a full floor all night. Maybe they bring their own crowd in, just incase ;)

Same goes for 'guarantee to play ALL requests'.. Yuh right. "hey DJ man, put the Sam Smith album on next".

I think the word you were looking for is quantifiable. But no, I think this is going to be similar to the sale of goods act whereby goods must be 'fit for purpose'. If you book a disco with the intention of them being good and your guests enjoying themselves... and the DJ is crap, or the client is unreasonable.. erm.. yeah. There may be trouble ahead.

[funkymook]

Would be interesting to see how this plays out, but surely decisions can only be made on things that can be measured...I can't think of the actual word that I'm looking for. But you know what I mean.

Decisions could be marked on punctuality (an example used on that website), whether sound and lighting was provided but I'm struggling to think of what else beyond that. Playing requests? If you have a clause in the contract saying that the DJ holds overall creative control of the music, then that's out of the window. I guess it all can be boiled down to what you say. If you have on your website that you guarantee that people will be dancing all night long, does that open you up for trouble?

I agree - it won’t just be a matter of the client saying they didn’t enjoy the service if the service was supplied as per the contract. But things like being late, not having the first dance (if advised beforehand of course), equipment breaking down and no back-up etc will be fair claims in my opinion - and any decent supplier would already be offering some sort of recompense in those situation anyway.

We can’t be sued for grumpy guests who won’t dance, we’d all be out of business within weeks otherwise.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I've sometimes wondered how people are going to guarantee a full floor all night. Maybe they bring their own crowd in, just incase ;)

Same goes for 'guarantee to play ALL requests'.. Yuh right. "hey DJ man, put the Sam Smith album on next".

I think the word you were looking for is quantifiable. But no, I think this is going to be similar to the sale of goods act whereby goods must be 'fit for purpose'. If you book a disco with the intention of them being good and your guests enjoying themselves... and the DJ is crap, or the client is unreasonable.. erm.. yeah. There may be trouble ahead.

But you know as well as I do that unless you have never DJ'ed you just don't get what music works and doesn't at parties. So boring old sod who could make the judge on a claim might actually think Sam Smith, Chris Rea or Simply Red at 11 pm at a young wedding is a perfectly reasonable request?

[Benny Smyth]

Maybe this would see an increase in the amount of DJs who use contracts/booking agreements. On top of that, will we see some of the terms of the contract be re-written to become stricter to help protect the DJs?

We've seen on here a fair few times where some DJs already think that some of the terms of booking agreements are too strict.

[funkymook]

I don’t think it will change anything for mobile DJ's - the good guys will continue to give an excellent service and will handle any legitimate customer complaints in a fair manner and will resolve the issue - the cowboys will occasionally be caught out but as it appears only to offer a 'price reduction’ for bad service what have they really got to lose? The real villains who take the money and don’t turn up are already covered under different laws.

[DazzyD]

I've sometimes wondered how people are going to guarantee a full floor all night. Maybe they bring their own crowd in, just incase ;)

Same goes for 'guarantee to play ALL requests'.. Yuh right. "hey DJ man, put the Sam Smith album on next".

I think the word you were looking for is quantifiable. But no, I think this is going to be similar to the sale of goods act whereby goods must be 'fit for purpose'. If you book a disco with the intention of them being good and your guests enjoying themselves... and the DJ is crap, or the client is unreasonable.. erm.. yeah. There may be trouble ahead.

If I'm not mistaken, this new law replaces or clarifies other laws including the Sale Of Goods Act. The new law actually claries time periods in the SoGA. Before, the phrase was "within a reasonable time period" for returning rejected or faulty goods (not withstanding the law around inherently faulty products) but now that's clarified as "30 days".


I don’t think it will change anything for mobile DJ's - the good guys will continue to give an excellent service and will handle any legitimate customer complaints in a fair manner and will resolve the issue - the cowboys will occasionally be caught out but as it appears only to offer a 'price reduction’ for bad service what have they really got to lose? The real villains who take the money and don’t turn up are already covered under different laws.

I hate to say this but I actually disagree with Martin on this one. I feel it will have an impact on mobile DJs especially the legit ones. The cowboys don't care anyway and this is unlikely to change that. Let's remember that this law is very much in favour of the consumer as opposed to the small business owner. Once consumer's learn they've got these extra rights set in statute, I don't think it will take long for them to start exploiting them as it will it make it easier for them to get money off or money back. I've been watching this for a while as I also advise on a consumer forum regarding consumer rights (a little hobby of mine!) but I could see straight away how it could impact me negatively as a small business owner. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great piece of legislation for Darren the consumer but for Dazzy the DJ, maybe not so much so!

[ckpr2]

Its a bit scary.

We did a gig at Gretna Green for a youth club many years ago and everyone refused to dance.
We tried 3 different DJ's and numerous genres of music and nothing got them up.

Did an engagement party and no one danced, they just sat at the back and chatted.
Client asked me to play club music instead and that didn't work either.
But at least the client had some input and it still failed.

Turning up late or the sound equipment failing are clearly a different a matter.

[funkymook]

If I'm not mistaken, this new law replaces or clarifies other laws including the Sale Of Goods Act. The new law actually claries time periods in the SoGA. Before, the phrase was "within a reasonable time period" for returning rejected or faulty goods (not withstanding the law around inherently faulty products) but now that's clarified as "30 days".



I hate to say this but I actually disagree with Martin on this one. I feel it will have an impact on mobile DJs especially the legit ones. The cowboys don't care anyway and this is unlikely to change that. Let's remember that this law is very much in favour of the consumer as opposed to the small business owner. Once consumer's learn they've got these extra rights set in statute, I don't think it will take long for them to start exploiting them as it will it make it easier for them to get money off or money back. I've been watching this for a while as I also advise on a consumer forum regarding consumer rights (a little hobby of mine!) but I could see straight away how it could impact me negatively as a small business owner. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great piece of legislation for Darren the consumer but for Dazzy the DJ, maybe not so much so!

What complaints do you think will be upheld against a DJ that aren’t reasonable? This is the example they give:

You contract a photographer to cover your wedding and capture shots throughout the day starting with the church ceremony which starts at 1pm. You pay £2,000 for the service. There is a clause in the contract which says that the maximum discount for any problems caused by the photographer is £1,000.

The photographer arrives late at 4pm and misses the ceremony. This means that they have breached the contract by not arriving at 1pm. The term limiting the price reduction is invalid. The photography service cannot be repeated, as the wedding has already happened. Under the Act you are entitled to a reduction in price (possibly up to 100 per cent) due to non-compliance with the information provided.

Which anyone would agree is fair.

I just don’t see the chancer's ‘they didn’t play my request’ type claim getting anywhere near a court.

[Benny Smyth]

I just don’t see the chancer's ‘they didn’t play my request’ type claim getting anywhere near a court.

Very true, except in situations where the DJ's website says that they are happy to play all requests. Very tedious, but words like that could spell trouble as that's a service they advertise.

[mattydj50]

I haven't read the new law yet, but I think that it would depend what you have contracted to supply.

If for example you have had no advance input from the client regarding music content and, on the night they kept asking for stuff that you didn't have then, tough titties, as you had no contract to supply a specific service.

I would also encourage that any issues (perceived or otherwise) are resolved (or at least discussed) real time on the night. You can usually tell if there is trouble brewing and you are getting bad vibes.

[funkymook]

Very true, except in situations where the DJ's website says that they are happy to play all requests. Very tedious, but words like that could spell trouble as that's a service they advertise.

Do any say ‘all’ requests? Haven’t noticed it myself. (Bloody idiots if they do though, it’s impossible to guarantee and just asking for trouble even without these new regulations).

[Nakatomi]

Do any say ‘all’ requests? Haven’t noticed it myself. (Bloody idiots if they do though, it’s impossible to guarantee and just asking for trouble even without these new regulations).

Yup. Plenty do. Not only that at least one I've seen says 'all requests will be played in a timely manner'. Localish to me. I've done a fair bit of research in the last few months. I think I even caught one or two claiming the dancefloor would be full all night. What, even when the buffet's on? Even at last orders? Maybe they don't mean full of people...

[funkymook]

Yup. Plenty do. Not only that at least one I've seen says 'all requests will be played in a timely manner'. Localish to me. I've done a fair bit of research in the last few months. I think I even caught one or two claiming the dancefloor would be full all night. What, even when the buffet's on? Even at last orders? Maybe they don't mean full of people...

That really makes me want to gatecrash one of their events with my list of obscurities....

[ukpartydj]

I cannot see this effecting us all all that much. Surely in a contract you state that you provide sound and lighting equipment and a person will be in charge of the music. You will get amplified music from the start time until the finish.

My personal opinion is that it's the clients responsibility to determine if we are suitable for their event. Otherwise you could book a DJ at £150 for your wedding which maybe cost £15k with 200 demanding guests and claim his service was substandard when he didn't mix the music or have last week's number 1 single.
If the client asks questions such as "do you update your music weekly", "how many guests can your show handle" & "do you mix music together" then you've got grounds to ask for money off.

I save a record of all the music I play at every gig in traktor. Has been quite useful for the odd occasion where an agent recieved a compliant regarding music choices.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

All I can see is that it is making a relatively easy job a bloody hard one.

[yourdj]

But at least the client had some input and it still failed.


Isn't it golden when a pushy client/guests say for you to play something and it falls flat on it face. Even better when they make people dance, the people get up for about a minute and they look so chuffed, until everyone just sits down again. Having the input of the client in a positive sense is great for not only customer relations, but a gauge to how happy they are and for your own well being. Often they may also suggest something that rockets it off and everyone dances. :)

[yourdj]

I save a record of all the music I play at every gig in traktor. Has been quite useful for the odd occasion where an agent recieved a compliant regarding music choices.

A short video of the client dancing and a full floor at different points is also a good one too. If it were to go to court that would be an ace up your sleeve and the case would probably be thrown out. I had a complaint (the only one in 7 years) from my venue and had a series of photos throughout the night of the clients dancing with her hands in the air. The GM immediately ignored it (but knowing him probably gave her a spa day to save trip advisor reviews). Had a track history export and highlighted her requests and the guest requests I could remember as well as a list of things I had done above and beyond the call of duty (that were not even noticed). :)

[funkymook]

Out of interest who has ever received a complaint where the client has asked for any money back? If so, how many, what were the reasons and what was the outcome?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've had a complaint which annoyingly was nothing to do with me whatsoever.
It was for a wedding where the Bride & Groom and family went abroad for the service. They'd booked Photo Projection alongside the Disco to show off their photos to their reception guests. Another DJ was covering that booking for me as I was elsewhere that night. The Bride & Groom ended up not having the Photo Projection as the DJ couldn't get the thing up and running. There was nothing wrong with the Projector or any of the other stuff as it was checked before I gave it to him and also checked afterwards and used the following week. I ended up refunding their money for that part of the booking.

Like I said, it was annoying but I'm pretty sure the DJ will have his own side of the story as usual.

[DazzyD]

What complaints do you think will be upheld against a DJ that aren’t reasonable?

I just don’t see the chancer's ‘they didn’t play my request’ type claim getting anywhere near a court.


Very true, except in situations where the DJ's website says that they are happy to play all requests. Very tedious, but words like that could spell trouble as that's a service they advertise.

Very close to what I was thinking. I was thinking along the lines "Book us and you're guaranteed to have the best party ever!!" type of wild claims. Also, when the client books you and you can't attend - you've died or whatever - and you send someone else but the client doesn't accept this because they've booked "YOU" and you've not made it clear in your T&Cs that you reserve the right to do this if you can't attend. I don't sell "ME", I sell "Lightning Disco & Entertainment" so I don't have this problem but I've heard this scenario come up several times in the past fortnight.

DJs are going to have to thoroughly check all of their marketing material, T&Cs and any other docs to ensure they're not offering anything that they cannot provide 100% of the time.


Out of interest who has ever received a complaint where the client has asked for any money back? If so, how many, what were the reasons and what was the outcome?

I have. I was working for an agent via another member on here at a very posh venue for a reunion of very old university / college types. Due to a few minor issues (none of which were my fault - I was absolved by the agent!), it ended in a complaint from the organiser (who didn't even stay for the disco - she left straight after the meal!). Her complaints included that I was wearing scruffy jeans (I wasn't - I always wear black trousers and the agent saw that when he met me later on in the night!), I didn't play any of the music requested (I played it all -thank you VDJ History!) and even I looked "too rough and ready for the event" (???). Did she get a refund? Well, yes she did! I got paid but the agent paid me himself and took a hit as he gets a lot of bookings at the venue and didn't want to jeopardise that.

So, people will try it on (this lady was very well-to-do - not someone you'd see on Benefits Street!) and they will succeed. And this new law will help them to do that as most small business owners would rather take a hit than risk going to court. And this is especially true of DJs. How many times do we see posts from members who are waiving there T&Cs rather than fight the issue and go to small claims court? Too many, imo!

[funkymook]

Well we’ll just have to wait and see, meanwhile tighten up your marketing and T&C’s if they need it - though they should be in order anyway regardless of the new law.

[ckpr2]

Good communication is probably the key.
Ask up front if they have any ideas about what they expect.

Its best to try to sort out problems sooner rather than later.

I had terrible trouble with a sale on ebay.
Buyer said he wasn't happy so I said send item back.
For some reason he spat his dummy out of the pram and sent back a 6 inch square of wood full of nails sticking out !
Ebay refunded him and he kept the original item worth £50 !

I guess it depends who you are dealing with, I think most people are reasonable but just occasionally one comes along who is looking for trouble.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Gave a proper contract with tight t's and c's, do a good job at all times, don't make any wild statements like playing every request when you could be handed a list with 200 tunes or having the dance floor rammed all night and I don't see much to worry about.

The law is there to protect consumers from being stung, not to enable arseholes to abuse small businesses.