Wireless Audio/ Mic Question

[Casual77]

I've got a couple of children's parties coming up (my own son's included) and want to investigate how I could control the music without being stood behind my DJ booth. I've got a Tonium pacemaker and I seem to remember when they first came out they did a club night (at Mint Club in Leeds I think) where the DJs played their entire sets from the middle of the dance floor using Pacemakers and some kind of wireless transmitters. I'm thinking I could use my Pacemaker in the same way but how would I transmit the audio? I was thinking I could use a wireless microphone transmitter but that would presumably only send the audio in mono, whereas I would be looking to send a stereo signal ideally. I'd also like to do this in conjunction with using a wireless mic.

I've got this Mackie Mixer (see pic below) which I would presumably use but what else would I need to be able to do this. Is it doable without spending a fortune and would I still be able to use a wireless mic simultaneously? Assuming it is possible, can anyone point me in the direction of a stereo wireless adaptor that will do the job?


17502

[Retrodisco]

Dead simple solution if you use Virtual DJ, get the remote app. The new version is awesome.

I can stand the other side of the room and access everything, works a treat.

[Casual77]

Dead simple solution if you use Virtual DJ, get the remote app. The new version is awesome.

I can stand the other side of the room and access everything, works a treat.


I have Virtual DJ but don't use it as my preferred DJ software, although I suppose that could be an option for kids parties where mixing isn't really necessary. I wasn't aware of the remote app and it certainly looks interesting. I'd still be interested in finding a wireless solution for the Pacemaker though.

[yourdj]

I am looking at this at the moment as i have a grand entrance with 2 tracks next week and no assistant to press play. Need to be in my hand and not visible and just work when I press play and next track/volume up and down. The last thing I want is silence or agadoo to start playing at full blast LOL.

Never felt good about using a phone as a controller as it looks like your texting (especially at a wedding). they are also fiderly and easy to make mistakes.

This is highly regarded and much cheaper to buy from the states:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000S6933Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

I don't have time to order one so:

I am going to dig this out the garage now and see if it works as i have not used it in 5 years.
http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-Wireless-Explorer-iTunes-Remote/dp/B000JHH8A4

I also have one of these and am going to see if it can cue music from it? Doubt it.
All i need are 2 tracks with volume.

http://www.staples.co.uk/non-laser-presenter/cbs/406218.html?price=incvat&cm_mmc=SEM_PLA-_-google-_-serp-pla&gclid=Cj0KEQjw75yxBRD78uqEnuG-5vcBEiQAQbaxSBFwHIXO7OOOB-PurVEA0YOyvWvRfF8MR55z_jG2ppMaAkBD8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Excalibur]

Allan, I can't quite do what you want, as the system I have in mind needs a mains input at each end, so isn't terribly portable. Alto Stealth, but it's not what you need.

Toby, in the Old Days ( or nowadays if you're Crazy K :) ) a remote and a mini disc player were all you needed.

[Nakatomi]

Pity nobody has cottoned onto this yet: a couple of buttons on a radio mic and a couple of 'fader start' contacts on the receiver. Or better yet, midi over USB :D

[yourdj]

Pity nobody has cottoned onto this yet: a couple of buttons on a radio mic and a couple of 'fader start' contacts on the receiver. Or better yet, midi over USB :D

Cant find the Hercules USB receiver so thats out of action. :(

however. I completely forgot that I often use my lapel sender and iPod touch as background music.
So basically all you need is an iPod shuffle (i have two - easier to press play and do the volume).

17504

and

17505

Just stick the ipod on my clipboard and the lapel sender in my pocket. 1st track is violin backing music for my story of how the couple met, second track the entrance track so just have to press next track and increase the volume. :)

I usually put the mic receiver and yamaha up in the gallery, so its perfect as I don't have to keep rushing up and down the stairs.

[Nakatomi]

Cant find the Hercules USB receiver so thats out of action. :(

however. I completely forgot that I often use my lapel sender and iPod touch as background music.
So basically all you need is an iPod shuffle (i have two - easier to press play and do the volume).

17504

and

17505

Just stick the ipod on my clipboard and the lapel sender in my pocket. 1st track is violin backing music for my story of how the couple met, second track the entrance track so just have to press next track and increase the volume. :)

I usually put the mic receiver and yamaha up in the gallery, so its perfect as I don't have to keep rushing up and down the stairs.

Very cunning, Toby. I like that a lot. But what if you want stereo music?

:sofa:

[Casual77]

Overlooking the fact that it's a cheap Chinese import product do you think something like this would do the job?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4GHz-Wireless-Music-Audio-Adapter-Box-Transmitter-Receiver-for-Phone-MP3-PC-CI-/281633694975?hash=item4192ad24ff:g:C30AAOxyUgtTMPt l

Presumably I could just connect the Pacemaker to the transmitter by mini jack lead and then connect the receiver to the RCA phono Tape Input on the mixer? Assuming that works, the only issue would then be one of latency but I could overcome that as long as I used headphones rather than the speakers to do any mixing.

[DJ Jules]

I don't like to give away my tricks... but....

The wireless presenter remotes can usually be easily mapped to control the Cue/Play buttons on DJ software as they present themselves to Windows PC's as a very small keyboard! If you've got VDJ it's dead simple, open Config, Mappers tab, Keyboard mapper, Key Learn, press the button on the remote and then Action Learn, press Play on the open Deck. I've got the Logitech remote and the buttons map to ".", PgUp, PgDn and F5 on the keyboard, which I've mapped to Play/Cue, AutoMix prev, AutoMix next and a sample effect.

I don't know for sure about any other software, but I would have thought it'd be possible to do. If not, you can get third party apps that allow you to remap keyboards (great for pranks as well!) so you could remap the remotes buttons to existing keyboard shortcuts for Cue/Play, etc.

Awesome for kids parties where you want to be out in front interacting with the kids, not behind the booth.

A friend of mine also found a similar remote control solution (BlueTooth I believe) for DJay on his iPad - there's lots of these out there specially made for remote controlling music apps.

Julian

[hadyn]

I don't like to give away my tricks... but....

The wireless presenter remotes can usually be easily mapped to control the Cue/Play buttons on DJ software as they present themselves to Windows PC's as a very small keyboard! If you've got VDJ it's dead simple, open Config, Mappers tab, Keyboard mapper, Key Learn, press the button on the remote and then Action Learn, press Play on the open Deck. I've got the Logitech remote and the buttons map to ".", PgUp, PgDn and F5 on the keyboard, which I've mapped to Play/Cue, AutoMix prev, AutoMix next and a sample effect.

I don't know for sure about any other software, but I would have thought it'd be possible to do. If not, you can get third party apps that allow you to remap keyboards (great for pranks as well!) so you could remap the remotes buttons to existing keyboard shortcuts for Cue/Play, etc.

Awesome for kids parties where you want to be out in front interacting with the kids, not behind the booth.

A friend of mine also found a similar remote control solution (BlueTooth I believe) for DJay on his iPad - there's lots of these out there specially made for remote controlling music apps.


Julian
now that's a great little tip
may try that one myself!!

[Casual77]

I don't like to give away my tricks... but....

The wireless presenter remotes can usually be easily mapped to control the Cue/Play buttons on DJ software as they present themselves to Windows PC's as a very small keyboard! If you've got VDJ it's dead simple, open Config, Mappers tab, Keyboard mapper, Key Learn, press the button on the remote and then Action Learn, press Play on the open Deck. I've got the Logitech remote and the buttons map to ".", PgUp, PgDn and F5 on the keyboard, which I've mapped to Play/Cue, AutoMix prev, AutoMix next and a sample effect.

I don't know for sure about any other software, but I would have thought it'd be possible to do. If not, you can get third party apps that allow you to remap keyboards (great for pranks as well!) so you could remap the remotes buttons to existing keyboard shortcuts for Cue/Play, etc.

Awesome for kids parties where you want to be out in front interacting with the kids, not behind the booth.

A friend of mine also found a similar remote control solution (BlueTooth I believe) for DJay on his iPad - there's lots of these out there specially made for remote controlling music apps.

Julian

This sounds like a good idea but unfortunately I use neither Virtual DJ nor a Windows PC which may rule it out as an option. My preferred software set up is either DJay Pro on a MacBook Pro or the DJay 2 app on an iPad with a Reloop Beatpad controller so the Bluetooth solution that your friend has found for controlling DJay sounds more attractive. I seem to think I have a small apple remote which will allow me to play and pause music in iTunes but ideally I would like to have a bit more control than simply 'Start', 'Stop' and 'Skip to Next Track' which is why the Pacemaker option appeals. Finding a wireless solution for that would allow me to access my full library, cue tracks, mix, apply effects etc all from the middle of the dancefloor. I appreciate that all sounds like over-kill for a kids party, because it is, but I have a secondary motive for wanting to look into this. I've got a friend's 40th coming up at the end of next month and I've agreed to be DJ for the night. He's wanting a 5 hour mixed dance set and, given that we have a lot of friends in common, I don't particularly want to be chained behind the DJ booth all night. I'm pretty sure I could do at least a large part of the night using the Pacemaker if I can find a suitable way of transmitting the signal wirelessly.

The other thing I'm looking into is using the Serato Mini Remote iPhone App to control Serato DJ. I downloaded it yesterday and will have a play around on that over the weekend to see if that would give me the level of control I'm looking for. Unfortunately, I suspect it won't.

[yourdj]

Very cunning, Toby. I like that a lot. But what if you want stereo music?

:sofa:

Don't get that? The cables are stereo and i assume so is the transmitter (obviously the iPod is)?


Overlooking the fact that it's a cheap Chinese import product do you think something like this would do the job?


I used to have a set of 2.4 gig senders - see this review from 2010:
http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?29808-Cheap-as-chips-Audio-sender-amp-Itunes-controller-review


I don't like to give away my tricks... but....


Thats a good idea, I could trigger the first dance using that also assuming i was 100% confident in it?
I wonder if it would work with Serato?

[Nakatomi]

Don't get that? The cables are stereo and i assume so is the transmitter (obviously the iPod is)?




Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many night

- - - Updated - - -


Don't get that? The cables are stereo and i assume so is the transmitter (obviously the iPod is)?




Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many bar & club PA systems are mono. Shouldn't really have been any kind of surprise, thinking about it.

[mattydj50]

Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many night



I actually prefer a mono output. especially on "heritage" tracks that were recorded in fake stereo. Lulu's Shout is one that comes to mind. She's over there >>>>>> singing and the music is all over <<<<<<< there!!

[yourdj]

Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many night

- - - Updated - - -



Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many bar & club PA systems are mono. Shouldn't really have been any kind of surprise, thinking about it.

Suppose that makes sense as it is only designed for the spoken word.

I run my main PA mono, prefer the sound.
Only use one speaker for the meal announcements/music anyway :)

Hendrix has to be the worst stereo artist ever, its really annoying, but I suppose thats the point as its designed for psychedelia?

[Casual77]

Don't get that? The cables are stereo and i assume so is the transmitter (obviously the iPod is)?



I used to have a set of 2.4 gig senders - see this review from 2010:
http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?29808-Cheap-as-chips-Audio-sender-amp-Itunes-controller-review



Thats a good idea, I could trigger the first dance using that also assuming i was 100% confident in it?
I wonder if it would work with Serato?

I can't access your video review at work but I gather from your thread that you feel that they were a worthwhile purchase. On the back of that I might give the cheap £20 Chinese ones a go to see if they (or something similar) would do the job.

If you are just wanting to trigger play on Serato, then I suspect the Serato mobile app would do that and more, although it would necessitate using your phone or an ipod touch.

[Casual77]

Nope. The transmitter will be mono only Toby. Still, for convenience your solution is brilliant though - and would customers notice the difference between mono & stereo anyway? It came as a huge shock to me a while ago when I learned that many bar & club PA systems are mono. Shouldn't really have been any kind of surprise, thinking about it.

I can think of some dance music where there is a very deliberate use of stereo sound and panning which would clearly be lost if music was played in mono. Out of interest though, what percentage of typical mobile disco music would you consider would be detrimentally affected by playing in mono?



I actually prefer a mono output. especially on "heritage" tracks that were recorded in fake stereo. Lulu's Shout is one that comes to mind. She's over there >>>>>> singing and the music is all over <<<<<<< there!!

How do you get your music to play in mono Matthew given that you use CDs and use the stereo ouputs on your mixer?

[yourdj]

I can't access your video review at work but I gather from your thread that you feel that they were a worthwhile purchase. On the back of that I might give the cheap £20 Chinese ones a go to see if they (or something similar) would do the job.

If you are just wanting to trigger play on Serato, then I suspect the Serato mobile app would do that and more, although it would necessitate using your phone or an ipod touch.

I have to trigger music when holding a mic and usually a clipboard, out in front of guests tables etc, so using anything that involves a touchcreen is not viable. Nothing better than a simple 4 buttoned controller for play, track selection and volume. Basically the iPod shuffle, or one of these (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000S6933Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00)

[Nakatomi]

Contrary to having a detrimental effect on music I think running mono would actually improve a lot of the tracks I play. Big Girls Don't Cry is one regular. Hard panned stuff (ie drums & keys on the right, vocals on the left with guitar) SUCKS.

When I used to play out with Ableton I made a stereo width control. Every mixer should have one!

[DJ Jules]

This sounds like a good idea but unfortunately I use neither Virtual DJ nor a Windows PC which may rule it out as an option.

Shouldn't do - I believe there's other ways of doing it as well. I believe you can get an app that remaps Human Input Devices (e.g. a keyboard or remote) to MIDI - that ought to work with anything.


ideally I would like to have a bit more control than simply 'Start', 'Stop' and 'Skip to Next Track' which is why the Pacemaker option appeals. Finding a wireless solution for that would allow me to access my full library, cue tracks, mix, apply effects etc all from the middle of the dancefloor.


I appreciate that all sounds like over-kill for a kids party, because it is, but I have a secondary motive for wanting to look into this.

Yup, very different applications - You might not find one solution which works really well for both?

[Casual77]

Every mixer should have one!


Should have... but doesn't.

Is there anyway to convert a stereo signal into a combined mono which doesn't involve re-recording the songs in that format? I'm assuming that simply sending the left channel feed to both speakers, whilst sounding OK on some songs, would sound terrible on others.

[Casual77]

Yup, very different applications - You might not find one solution which works really well for both?


Agreed. Now you have given me the idea, I think I should be able to dig out the little Apple remote that came with my MacBook and use that to play and pause music in iTunes which would probably be sufficient for 'Pass the Parcel' and 'Musical Statues' etc at kids parties as long as I set up a suitable playlist beforehand.

I'm thinking speculating the £20 on the Chinese sender/receiver units could be the way to go for my friend's party. I think that DJing from the dance floor is something I will only ever do for parties for friends or family when I'm expected to be a party guest as well as the DJ. The party next month will be the first time since I became a professional mobile DJ that I've been asked to do it but I'm certain it won't be the last.

[Nakatomi]

Should have... but doesn't.

Is there anyway to convert a stereo signal into a combined mono which doesn't involve re-recording the songs in that format? I'm assuming that simply sending the left channel feed to both speakers, whilst sounding OK on some songs, would sound terrible on others.

Some speakers have two inputs and the ability to loop the mixed product of those out.

Otherwise you should be able to get away with joining cables with a Y adapter in some cases. Leaving one channel off isn't ideal.

Or you can just re-do the tracks as mono. If they start life as mp3 though, save them losslessly.

[Casual77]

Some speakers have two inputs and the ability to loop the mixed product of those out.

Otherwise you should be able to get away with joining cables with a Y adapter in some cases. Leaving one channel off isn't ideal.

Or you can just re-do the tracks as mono. If they start life as mp3 though, save them losslessly.

I'm not sure my speakers have that facility. The other two options sound messy and hard work respectively. Do you think the benefit of playing in mono would outweigh the effort involved in achieving it? I'm thinking I might stick to stereo for the time being at least.

[yourdj]

Agreed. Now you have given me the idea, I think I should be able to dig out the little Apple remote that came with my MacBook and use that to play and pause music in iTunes which would probably be sufficient for 'Pass the Parcel' and 'Musical Statues' etc at kids parties as long as I set up a suitable playlist beforehand.

I'm thinking speculating the £20 on the Chinese sender/receiver units could be the way to go for my friend's party. I think that DJing from the dance floor is something I will only ever do for parties for friends or family when I'm expected to be a party guest as well as the DJ. The party next month will be the first time since I became a professional mobile DJ that I've been asked to do it but I'm certain it won't be the last.

Infra red on that remote. i looked at one of them.

You really want 2.4 gig digital or UHF. :)

[Nakatomi]

I'm not sure my speakers have that facility. The other two options sound messy and hard work respectively. Do you think the benefit of playing in mono would outweigh the effort involved in achieving it? I'm thinking I might stick to stereo for the time being at least.

I think the vast majority of tracks I play over my stereo PA sound just fine. As for the rest.. they might just get put through a mono mangle. I've been experimenting with ways to route audio in Linux (my chosen OS for playout), but making some stuff easily switchable with MIDI via my controller.. isn't easy.

[DJ Jules]

Again for VDJ users, so probably not much help for anyone who's posted so far... but there is a plugin for VDJ that produces a mono output. It's deceptively called "SBDJ Stereo"

Julian

[Casual77]

Took advantage of the eBay discount offer last night and bought myself a wireless microphone and a possible solution for using the Pacemaker wirelessly. Having read largely favourable reviews on here for the AKG WMS40 Mini I bought one of those but opted for the mix package with the dual receiver and the instrument belt pack. The belt pack has a female mini XLR input to I bought a stereo mini jack to mini XLR cable so that I could connect the Pacemaker.

Would I be right in thinking that, if I put a stereo signal into the belt pack and that then transmits a mono signal to the receiver, that the mono signal would be the combined left and right channels of the stereo input? If it does then that should be a suitable solution. If not, I will be sticking it back on eBay.

[yourdj]

Having read largely favourable reviews on here for the AKG WMS40 Mini I bought one of those but opted for the mix package with the dual receiver and the instrument belt pack.

Damn wish you had mentioned it. I have moved away from both my AKG sets as they have been spiking, due to being close to the 4g band. Lots of other DJ's have had the same problem. it seems to be worst in venues a distance from antennas. I use the Kams now on channel 38 - much better. :) http://www.astounded.com/kam-1960hh-dual-uhf-handheld-wireless-microphone-system.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwtaexBRCohZOAoOPL88oBEiQA r96eSEF4qRaiOmmnBqVo85cgDcPHvfvUFlLX4kW-xe0EvTYaAsB18P8HAQ

Sure you will be fine, but if you hear a loud hissing then thats it. Some venues it won't happen and then others every few mins.

[Casual77]

Damn wish you had mentioned it. I have moved away from both my AKG sets as they have been spiking, due to being close to the 4g band. Lots of other DJ's have had the same problem. it seems to be worst in venues a distance from antennas. I use the Kams now on channel 38 - much better. :) http://www.astounded.com/kam-1960hh-dual-uhf-handheld-wireless-microphone-system.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwtaexBRCohZOAoOPL88oBEiQA r96eSEF4qRaiOmmnBqVo85cgDcPHvfvUFlLX4kW-xe0EvTYaAsB18P8HAQ

Sure you will be fine, but if you hear a loud hissing then thats it. Some venues it won't happen and then others every few mins.

It was a bit of an impulse purchase because eBay had a 20% discount on last night and the AKG package seemed to offer a decent priced wireless microphone as well as a possible solution to going wireless with the Pacemaker. I did read your post about favouring the Kam 1960 and considered going that way but would have had to spend more on top to buy the equivalent instrument pack which pushed it out of my budget. I'm not disheartened though because if either the microphone or instrument pack end up being unsuitable I should be able to sell it on without losing much on it.

[yourdj]

It was a bit of an impulse purchase because eBay had a 20% discount on last night and the AKG package seemed to offer a decent priced wireless microphone as well as a possible solution to going wireless with the Pacemaker. I did read your post about favouring the Kam 1960 and considered going that way but would have had to spend more on top to buy the equivalent instrument pack which pushed it out of my budget. I'm not disheartened though because if either the microphone or instrument pack end up being unsuitable I should be able to sell it on without losing much on it.

My guess is they are trying to shift as much as possible before the complaints start rolling in. :)
it is a no brainer given the cost of them. i am listing my set soon, but don't reality see the point given the resale value??

I would have recommended the little cam battery ones assuming you will be in line of sight and not more than 20 metres.
Can I ask why you want to use a pacemaker? Why not use an iPod or iPad mini with Djay, or even just iTunes as you will not be mixing?

They are quite old now and look quite fidderly when compared to a touchscreen equivalent.

[Casual77]

Can I ask why you want to use a pacemaker? Why not use an iPod or iPad mini with Djay, or even just iTunes as you will not be mixing?

They are quite old now and look quite fidderly when compared to a touchscreen equivalent.

The pacemaker will be used for those times when I am expected to mix because I don't have an ipod or ipad mini and the full size ipads I have would be a bit too cumbersome to use. I will almost certainly come up with a different solution for kids parties where 'play' and pause' would be sufficient, but my friends are largely ex-clubbers so any parties I do for/with them I will be expected to mix dance music. Personally, I don't find the Pacemaker particularly fiddly to use, it fits into most pockets, and has a 60Gb hard drive so it's ideal when I need a small, portable solution for garden parties/BBQs etc.

If you look back to my earliest posts on here, you'll see that I never intended to become a professional mobile DJ. I just wanted to be able to host good parties for friends and family, so not everything I buy is necessarily with 'professional' use in mind.

[Casual77]

After being sent the wrong item twice, I finally received my AKG Mini Mix Set on Friday and had my first chance to have a play with it earlier today. It still needs a little bench-testing but so far I'm really impressed and I think it will be fine for what I want to use it for.

I'm looking forward to doing my first gig from the middle of the dance floor now.

[yourdj]

After being sent the wrong item twice, I finally received my AKG Mini Mix Set on Friday and had my first chance to have a play with it earlier today. It still needs a little bench-testing but so far I'm really impressed and I think it will be fine for what I want to use it for.

I'm looking forward to doing my first gig from the middle of the dance floor now.

I used my iPad and lapel sender in the end and it worked fine although I think i prefer having an assistant pushing the buttons as the delivery of the story was not as good as it could have been. i was going to film it but forgot to press play. :)

Audio fine as the speaker was 30 metres away in the gallery area. Used it for the whole meal to play background and the entrance track.