Lighting advice please.

[Excalibur]

Right, let's establish a few ground rules.
First, any posts recommending I purchase any effects not outlined in the opening few lines, will be at best ignored, and most likely deleted. This is serious, for it could involve me spending money, and you know how cranky that makes me. :mad:
I'm looking for advice on this, and all serious and helpful posts will be gratefully received. Inane and fatuous ones carry a risk of reprisals.

Right, I possess an armoury of lighting effects, to whit loads of tripars, and a powerbar for wash/uplighting. That's sorted, and it's all staying.

Re effects, I own two Martin EFX500s, two Acme Cheetahs, and two Acme Samurai. Fine effects all, but with the exception of the cheetahs, a pain to rig.

The Cheetahs are staying, and the EFX are worth more to keep than to sell. The quandary is the Samurai. Fabulous lights, but totally out of control if left to their own devices, and usually capable of lighting every bit of the room, except the ones you want lit. :(

I have this very minute connected one to a Chauvet DMX controller, and the difference is staggering. For one thing, I could now do static, or ( fairly ) slowly revolving white gobos for a first dance. This in itself could be an argument to keep them.

However, I'm looking for an all-in-one effect, and I've ruled the Gigbar out for two reasons.
1) It's too wide for the Micromax.
2) It won't work well on an overhead.

I have the chance to effectively swap the Samurai for Swarm 5s. Obviously, for simple gigs, two of these either on the overhead, or a tripod is a complete light show, with the minimum of cabling. My existing desk will apparently control these, so that's not a problem.

OK folks, over to you. What would you do, and why? As I said, no other effects are considered, nor is spending money, and buying the Swarms to add to what I already have. Within those parameters, anything else is possible. Fire away.

[Benny Smyth]

What is it that you want to achieve? (i.e. Small and compact for tight spaces, or quick and easy to set up and take down, or most impressive with minimum fuss, or most impressive regardless of fuss).

And what is it that makes you unhappy enough to ask others?

Sorry if that's not the kind of post you're looking for but, to be honest, I've read the post a few times and I can't quite get a feel for what you're looking for and I'm hoping that my questions may help me understand a bit more.

It's probably the silly juice that's making me thick.:daft:

[Imagine]

We were talking about this earlier and I sort of get where Peter's coming from on this one.

I have no experience with the Samuri's I'm afraid so can't comment on those. Although bear in mind they're a scanner.....the Swarm is definitely not one of those. In fact other than the obvious strobe and cluster laser, the main effect is closer to a Mini Kinta if I'm honest.

Another reason for not using the Gigbar (I assume we're talking the Chauvet Gigbar IRC as per earlier), it's not actually that bright (I use a pair of them to achieve any realistic type of effect).

I tend to use the Swarms on S2L as we discussed earlier - it just works for the sort of gig I use them on.

I have briefly played with them under DMX control in the past and the results were fairly impressive. You can control the rotation speeds and colours of the "dots", the strobe effect, the laser, pretty much everything to bring them under full control. It IS a scatter type of effect though (it's hard to explain really), and ideally needs a little haze around it to bring out the best in it.

How quickly do you need to make a decision Peter? If you like, I can get a video of them in a real world situation on NYE in a fairly big room. They'll only be in S2L master/slave mode (which is how I'm rolling with them for this one....it's a quick in/quick out type of night), and it'll be an honest reflection of what they do (as opposed to a sales video where everything's nicely programmed and set up.....I'm not allowed to use haze for a start on NYE :( ).

I rarely post video of any of my rigs (and believe me....the one I'm using on NYE isn't my finest - as I say, it's a quick in/quick out but it'll do the job and won't get knocked over by the drunken people that are going to be there), but if it helps, I'll do a quick recording whilst the room's empty, plus some stuff whilst there's (hopefully) dancers on the floor (I have a GoPro rip-off in the lighting rig) and post it up once I come back to the land of the living at some point late on New Year's day.

[Excalibur]

Benny, I'm not looking for impressive. I can do impressive, no problem, and the Samurai lend themselves to impressive. I got these from a forum member, and I reckon I know why he sold them. Fine lights, but only seeming to come out on special occasions, and I have the EFX which fall into the same category.

I'm looking for compact size, and quick set up for a full light show, Benny. The swarms fit that requirement. If they fall down on wash light, I can soon add a Tripar or two.

Wayne, there's no rush, and I appreciate the video, I'll look forward to it, thanks.

I love my Cheetahs, and got the Samurai in the hope that they would offer similar effects, but with greater coverage. They do that, but not in the way I hoped for.

Thanks for the input so far lads.

[Pe7e]

I can't offer much advice regarding choice of lamps, but if you do go for a total changeover I would be interested in acquiring a single Samurai off you if decide to part with them.

[Excalibur]

I can't offer much advice regarding choice of lamps, but if you do go for a total changeover I would be interested in acquiring a single Samurai off you if decide to part with them.

Thanks for the offer, but if I do decide to change, they're going in p/ex for the Swarms.

[DJ Jules]

Thanks for the offer, but if I do decide to change, they're going in p/ex for the Swarms.

I'm sure you've probably noticed, but if you do go down this route, there's a pair for sale here (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?43019-Warehouse-Clearance/page2&highlight=swarm). Assuming that he's picking up messages.

[Nakatomi]

I think I can see why you're considering swapping the Samurai for the Swarm Peter - without going the whole hog with DMX you won't generally get to concentrate moving mirrors or heads where they're needed most - i.e. on the dancefloor. With something like the Swarm it's easy - just point them at it & you're done.

I'm now pondering replacing my scanners (which I really like, but their usefulness is very limited where there's a height restriction) with a couple of these very short throw multi-lensed LED fixtures. Or maybe I'd get away with only using one most of the time.

[DJ Jules]

I think I can see why you're considering swapping the Samurai for the Swarm Peter - without going the whole hog with DMX you won't generally get to concentrate moving mirrors or heads where they're needed most - i.e. on the dancefloor. With something like the Swarm it's easy - just point them at it & you're done.

I've had a variety of scanners and barrels over the years and have found the same. Scanners I tend to find really limited unless they have a prism (and preferably rotating gobos), barrels tend to need taming as they tend to spend most of their time rotating so fast that you're really just creating a blur on the dance floor. I'm not sure why you'd need the Samurai's and the EFX's. In theory the EFX is a barrel effect on steroids, but I guess the draw of the Samurai is the LED?

With your arsenal of effects I'd probably be going out with a powerbar and either a pair of Cheetahs or the two EFX's most of the time. I probably wouldn't be using the Samurai's much either. In theory the Samurai's are worth quite a bit more than the Swarm's, but I know what the second hand market is like when it comes to valuing kit...

Julian

[Excalibur]

I'm sure you've probably noticed, but if you do go down this route, there's a pair for sale here (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?43019-Warehouse-Clearance/page2&highlight=swarm). Assuming that he's picking up messages.

Indeed I had noticed, thanks. As I said though, spending isn't an option, even at those prices, and anyway, I'm sure others are way ahead of me in the queue.


. I'm not sure why you'd need the Samurai's and the EFX's. In theory the EFX is a barrel effect on steroids, but I guess the draw of the Samurai is the LED?
Neither am I, hence this thread. Yes, the Samurai being LED was a big draw, but they're a large effect, and sockets and controls could have been better placed. Having got them under DMX control, I can see a use for first dances, and they may ( probably will ) go out for my NYE wedding tomorrow, for that reason alone.


.With your arsenal of effects I'd probably be going out with a powerbar and either a pair of Cheetahs or the two EFX's most of the time.
Funny you should say that. :whistle: I do. :D

Basically, I want to know whether to stick or twist. :confused:
Like I said, the EFX are going nowhere, cos they're worth more to keep, and the Cheetahs are staying cos they're compact, and shine gobos in one place only, they don't dart round the room, blinding people. I'm getting a lot of requests lately for a more low key lighting rig, and wash based with Cheetahs fits the bill perfectly.

$64,000 question is do I keep the Samurai for weddings and raves, or swap for Swarms and a T- bar? :confused:

[Imagine]

OK - I said the rig wasn't pretty tonight.....it was supposed to be lightweight and easy to get in and out in a hurry :)

A word of warning....neither of these have been compressed or edited (at 4am...I really can't be bothered). If needs be, I'll compress them tomorrow...just shout (quietly....I need sleep). Neither of the videos really do the Swarms justice either. I ran them on complete auto-mode tonight so the lasers, strobes and kinta's were all in effect at times. In DMX mode, this can all be controlled and the kinta's rotated to where you want them, what speed you want them and indeed, in a static place.

So, for m'learned friend from oop North....here's the Swarms from the punter's side of the booth (they look a LOT better with smoke by the way). They're actually overpowered on the fruit flavoured video recording device by the megabar...sorry....


https://youtu.be/oC2tL1sxV6Y

And from my side of things (the sound is bad....the camera's only supposed to capture video at the end of the day)


https://youtu.be/Q2_hCdUu_uQ

(I make no apologies for being filmed texting the wife a Happy New Year in this clip by the way ;)...or taking the snapshot below ).

17609

[Excalibur]

Thanks for that Wayne, much appreciated. I haven't worked up the enthusiasm for much of anything this morning, after a real grueller last night. :( I put a lot of preparation and work in, and honestly wish I hadn't bothered. Bed at 3am, so not a little ray of sunshine at the moment.

If I'm honest, last night sealed the deal for me, the Samurai just didn't do what I wanted, even under DMX. I suspect I shall be trying the swarms for myself soon.

[Excalibur]

Well, I can get two Swarms between the uprights of a micromax, no problem, and a batten above. Useless for a wedding, but great for younger gigs, and quick setups. I'm going to adapt a T-bar solely for this as well. I have only one minor niggle, and it's not a huge surprise when you think about it. The batten doesn't give a lot of spread to the sides. I can live with that, especially as it runs some fabulous patterns, reminiscent of the KAM 800 panels.

[soundscapes]

Im thinking of running something similar. 2 swarms in the middle / Batten above and perhaps a pair of barrels or moonflowers either side.
How do you find the swarms ? The demo videos all look good assume you have to aim them high due to the laser ?

[Imagine]

Im thinking of running something similar. 2 swarms in the middle / Batten above and perhaps a pair of barrels or moonflowers either side.
How do you find the swarms ? The demo videos all look good assume you have to aim them high due to the laser ?

Like the GigBar, they're very much a love 'em, hate 'em fixture (even they look good in the demo videos).

As a "party in a box" type of effect, they're brilliant - especially when tamed with DMX. However, they're not overly bright so if you're in a fairly big room, you just won't see a lot of them (the video I put up earlier in the thread from NYE is about as big a room as I'd go with them). They also ideally need just a little smoke/haze to give them their best effect.

As for the lasers, yes they need to be directed above head height as with most lasers. They're only a cluster effect though so don't get too excited about them (I normally turn mine off as I'm not a huge fan of clusters).

[Excalibur]

Im thinking of running something similar. 2 swarms in the middle / Batten above and perhaps a pair of barrels or moonflowers either side.
How do you find the swarms ? The demo videos all look good assume you have to aim them high due to the laser ?


Like the GigBar, they're very much a love 'em, hate 'em fixture (even they look good in the demo videos).

As a "party in a box" type of effect, they're brilliant - especially when tamed with DMX. .
Wayne, I agree totally. ( Except I haven't DMXed them yet )
Simon, for certain crowds, and venues, I use one or two Equinox battens overhead ( one for the micromax, two for the DSB ) and two swarms. I did a large hall on Saturday with Battens/Swarms and it coped quite nicely. Thing is, it was only for the last two hours, when I wanted to create a lively atmosphere.

I would never take the swarms out for a wedding, Anniversary, or more laid back gig. They're too frantic ( although, you can select slightly more suitable programmes from the built in ones, and as Wayne says, DMX might be an answer ) for such functions. For a thirteen year old party in a village hall, a batten and two swarms on the micromax is perfect.