Small gig speakers for 50-200 people

[mrrawuk]

If you had to choose a speaker on quality and price and initially did not plan on getting a sub then would the Yamaha DBR12's be ideal?

I had looked at the Alto TS115W but the general consensus was i would be upgrading in a year or so.

[yourdj]

The Yamaha is the best speaker I have bought for such a low price. 2 x 12 inch would be ample, even for a small group in a marquee assuming you don't need a load of bass (e.g. teen functions). 11 kg or so, 131 SPL and fantastic sound enhancing electronics its a great product. :)

[CRAZY K]

If you had to choose a speaker on quality and price and initially did not plan on getting a sub then would the Yamaha DBR12's be ideal?

I had looked at the Alto TS115W but the general consensus was i would be upgrading in a year or so.

I would have thought if playing up to 200 people in a hall with a high ceiling and dodgy acoustics ( as I am next Saturday :daft:) I wouldnt rely just on a pair of 12inch speakers however efficient and loud.

Others may have different ideas---:D

CRAZY K

[mrrawuk]

I would have thought if playing up to 200 people in a hall with a high ceiling and dodgy acoustics ( as I am next Saturday :daft:) I wouldnt rely just on a pair of 12inch speakers however efficient and loud.

Others may have different ideas---:D

CRAZY K

Valid point there mate.

I am a club dj but the amount of work i have missed on quite small gigs has finally got me buying some gear for small gigs. Speaker wise i do not want to upgrade twice in a year so the Yamahas are probably top of my choice for the type of gigs i am likely to do. EVS and Alto have also been considered but i read so many posts with people upgrading within a year or so .

[Excalibur]

I would have thought if playing up to 200 people in a hall with a high ceiling and dodgy acoustics ( as I am next Saturday :daft:) I wouldnt rely just on a pair of 12inch speakers however efficient and loud.

Others may have different ideas---:D

CRAZY K

I've done 120 in a very large hotel room with the two LD 12" cabs, and it was loud. Plenty to spare. However, with the proviso that subs are forbidden, I'd want 15" drivers.

Ooh look, 15" drivers. (https://giggear.co.uk/buy/proel-v15a-powered-pa-speaker?gclid=CjwKEAiA5Ji0BRC5huTCyOTR3wISJACH4Bx4 554mpn2BFVLmx91nKmkDwNSVbDtHFbVtF7kMXy6ZyRoCiOHw_w cB) I have these, and while they're among the ugliest cabs I've ever seen, they really deliver the goods. As yet, I've never got them much above halfway on the gains on the back, and they've always delivered. Very impressive for the price.

As I've always said, if I could only have two cabs, regardless of the badge, they would have 15" drivers, and be made of wood, no matter what the badge on the front said.

[mrrawuk]

I've done 120 in a very large hotel room with the two LD 12" cabs, and it was loud. Plenty to spare. However, with the proviso that subs are forbidden, I'd want 15" drivers.

Ooh look, 15" drivers. (https://giggear.co.uk/buy/proel-v15a-powered-pa-speaker?gclid=CjwKEAiA5Ji0BRC5huTCyOTR3wISJACH4Bx4 554mpn2BFVLmx91nKmkDwNSVbDtHFbVtF7kMXy6ZyRoCiOHw_w cB) I have these, and while they're among the ugliest cabs I've ever seen, they really deliver the goods. As yet, I've never got them much above halfway on the gains on the back, and they've always delivered. Very impressive for the price.

As I've always said, if I could only have two cabs, regardless of the badge, they would have 15" drivers, and be made of wood, no matter what the badge on the front said.

I won't lie. My heads pickled by 12 or 15. Initially i will not be using a sub as my gigs will be quite small. I thought of 12's Yamahas then add a sub later if needed.

Sooooo much info :(

[CRAZY K]

As I've always said, if I could only have two cabs, regardless of the badge, they would have 15" drivers, and be made of wood, no matter what the badge on the front said.

Erm would 2 Peavey UL15s qualify Peter?:D:D:D

I assumed no subs was because of transport or lack of funds problem rather than venue issues.

ALAN

[mrrawuk]

Erm would 2 Peavey UL15s qualify Peter?:D:D:D

I assumed no subs was because of transport or lack of funds problem rather than venue issues.

ALAN

I am going to be using a Ford Galaxy or small Peugeot Partner type of transport. Speakers are the aim for now and i am looking at the Yamaha as opposed to going for a cheap starter such as the Altos.

[CRAZY K]

I am going to be using a Ford Galaxy

Loving mine-- 2004 model at the moment, lots of room long as you take the seats out.:rolleyes:

Plenty of room for subs.

Within your spec is my next gig, around 200 people, dreadful venue, huge room massively high ceiling, you might get a job like that some time soon.

I think in those circumstances if using the 12 inch Yamahas you would have to hire in a sub or subs or as Peter says loud 15 inch speakers (as opposed to 15 inch loudspeakers:D )

I dont know the difference in sound between the Yamahas and Alto although my son has the 12 inch Altos and they sound pretty good.

Buying the Yamahas and hiring in subs when necessary on bigger jobs for which you could charge extra makes commercial sense.

I have a lot of respect for Yamaha as bought the box amp nominal 500 watts a channel a year ago to drive my Peaveys, although I might get out the old Peavey XR600F for a little bit more punch.

HTH

[Excalibur]

I won't lie. My heads pickled by 12 or 15. Initially i will not be using a sub as my gigs will be quite small. I thought of 12's Yamahas then add a sub later if needed.

Sooooo much info :(
Even a crap cheap sub like the Alto 15 will transform your tops. I've got to say two things. Make that three.
1) Listen before you buy, because:
2) with the wooden twelves, you'll be amazed how much bass you get. It's a listening bass, rather than a thumping you in the chest bass.
3) I bought a cheap Alto sub to help the LDs out, and since I got the Proels, it rarely goes out. Nowadays, if I need more than the twelves can offer, I use the fifteens. If it's a big one, then I add the two LD subs under the twelves. The Alto is almost surplus to requirements.



Erm would 2 Peavey UL15s qualify Peter?:D:D:D


Perfectly. Especially driven by a PV2600. :) Until I got the Proels, I was looking for some cheap ULs.

Wales is a tad far away, or between three of us in Yorkshire, we could demo anything you're looking at. :) Dunno if Coalville is within your range, but keep an eye out for news of the annual meet there. More cabs in one room than you'll ever hear anywhere else.

[mrrawuk]

Even a crap cheap sub like the Alto 15 will transform your tops. I've got to say two things. Make that three.
1) Listen before you buy, because:
2) with the wooden twelves, you'll be amazed how much bass you get. It's a listening bass, rather than a thumping you in the chest bass.
3) I bought a cheap Alto sub to help the LDs out, and since I got the Proels, it rarely goes out. Nowadays, if I need more than the twelves can offer, I use the fifteens. If it's a big one, then I add the two LD subs under the twelves. The Alto is almost surplus to requirements.




Perfectly. Especially driven by a PV2600. :) Until I got the Proels, I was looking for some cheap ULs.

Wales is a tad far away, or between three of us in Yorkshire, we could demo anything you're looking at. :) Dunno if Coalville is within your range, but keep an eye out for news of the annual meet there. More cabs in one room than you'll ever hear anywhere else.

Cheers for the pointers. I am torn between 12's or 15's truth be told.
Will see if i can demo some stuff even if i have to travel.

[Nakatomi]

Coalville is way out of my range, but I'm damn sure going to be there before I buy any new PA gear. Assuming I don't see any silly bargains on Gumtree before then that is.

[yourdj]

Even a crap cheap sub like the Alto 15 will transform your tops.

And some can be fantastic, especially second hand. My 12 inch LD Dave has lasted years now and still is my only bass without Yamahaa.
Probably only worth about £250 now. :)

If you do go and listen you will be astounded at how much bass the Yamahas add. Not so much volume but depth.
I really notice it when i don't have the Yamahaa now. I bought it for back up and in some events I don't have it next to me.

[HeartandSoul]

As I am getting a little older and my back is knackered I bought a pair of the new Mackie Thumps, can carry one in each hand they are so light. I was a little reticent as have been using the SRM450's and thought maybe there would be a huge difference in performance, bearing in mind they have a slightly narrower frequency range.

In reality, used them NYE, for about 150 very noisy people and pushed them hard, was pretty happy with the sound quality, they performed so well left the subs in the van.

Guests were happy, so while I have little doubt some of the high end gear being discussed will be even better, not sure if it makes enough of a difference to general customers or functions of the size you are suggesting. So would consider these in the mix if I were you.

[Excalibur]

As I am getting a little older and my back is knackered I bought a pair of the new Mackie Thumps, can carry one in each hand they are so light. So would consider these in the mix if I were you.
There are conflicting reviews of those on here, and enough of them are negative to make me wary. There's one on here where a lad ran them side by side with some QTX, and was embarrassed by how much better the QTX were.:confused:

[Pe7e]

Personally I wouldn't touch Thumps with somebody else's barge pole, and I'm a Mackie fan, but I suppose it all depends on the type of gigs you're performing at, and the cost of buying second hand, they could be a viable 'budget buy' choice. However, if you were contemplating buying new Thumps I would recommend you use the cash to buy a S/H pair of decent quality speakers.

[mrrawuk]

There are conflicting reviews of those on here, and enough of them are negative to make me wary. There's one on here where a lad ran them side by side with some QTX, and was embarrassed by how much better the QTX were.:confused:


I am not looking at thumps tbh. I originally looked and reviews mixed with high second hand prices ruled them out.

I don't see hardly any good speakers going second hand in my searches tbh.

[DJColsie]

As regards the Mackie Thumps, are the bad reviews about the newer 500w version 3? I know the older "Tepco" versions were garbage which my ears confirmed when I heard them. Thought the latest upgrade and power increase might have sorted them out?

The 15s look useful for 18th's as they are reasonably cheap, reasonably light but go very low according to data.

[Nakatomi]

I am not looking at thumps tbh. I originally looked and reviews mixed with high second hand prices ruled them out.

I don't see hardly any good speakers going second hand in my searches tbh.

that's my experience. I think a lot of the best 2nd user PA changes hands behind closed doors ;) Bargains pop up once in a while, but the vast majority of the stuff for sale on ebay & gumtree is junk (same with lighting, generally).

[CRAZY K]

that's my experience. I think a lot of the best 2nd user PA changes hands behind closed doors ;) Bargains pop up once in a while, but the vast majority of the stuff for sale on ebay & gumtree is junk (same with lighting, generally).

Which is why I only buy secondhand from people on here or DJs I know:D:D:D

[Excalibur]

I am not looking at thumps tbh. .


As I am getting a little older and my back is knackered I bought a pair of the new Mackie Thumps, .
I'm confused



I don't see hardly any good speakers going second hand in my searches tbh .
I'll have a look. Budget?



Coalville is way out of my range, but I'm damn sure going to be there before I buy any new PA gear. Assuming I don't see any silly bargains on Gumtree before then that is.
Whenever anyone finds out when it is, I'd suggest you angle for a lift down. There might be one or two folk coming down from your way. Mode and timings of transport may be less than ideal, but hey ho.

[mrrawuk]

Ok my Maximum top end budget is £900 for speakers.

I have got it down to 4 brands .

Electro-Voice ZLX-12P(no sub initially ) : https://www.djkit.com/ev-electrovoice/electro-voice-zlx-12p.html?cat=247

RCF Art 312A MkIII (no sub initially) : https://www.djkit.com/rcf/rcf-art-312a-mkiii.html

Yamaha DXR12:(no sub again). https://www.djkit.com/ev-electrovoice/electro-voice-zlx-12p.html?cat=247

I feel all of the above are generally well received and thought of (yes thats probably subjective).

I had hoped for stands with any purchase but it's not a deal breaker.

[yourdj]

Personally I wouldn't touch Thumps with somebody else's barge pole,

They are old technology now. i had them and the tapco (which was a forerunner of the Mackie). Nice for the money ang as you say a great weight, but there are much better speakers out there. You can however get some great sets of four thumps for very good prices. Doubt you would find any really great deals on SH yamahas yet? :)

[Imagine]

Doubt you would find any really great deals on SH yamahas yet? :)

Definitely not. They're the type of speakers where once you've got them....you're not parting with them :)

That said.....I encountered a strange problem with my DXR15's on NYE and I've still to get to the bottom of it.

The set up was two DXR15's on poles, fed from a single DSR18SA under the booth. DSP on the DXR's was set to off (so the bass was handled by the DSR...that's the way I normally do it when I'm out with all three)

Gains set at 12 o'clock on the mixer, faders on full (as always) and main output being controlled by the master knob on the mixer (Denon MC6000mk2). Output LED's on the Denon were in the green...not even going into the yellow. That said....VDJ was going well into the red...never normally a problem though.

Inputs on the Yammy's set to 0db as always....yet they seemed to be "phasing"....i.e. from where I was standing the sound was cutting in and out (no warnings or limits reached according to the LED's on the Yammys)....it was weird and unnerving. I even turned the mixer gains down and still got the same problem.

I've never had that problem before, and I've pushed them a LOT harder than I did on NYE (I was only registering 100dB at the booth)

[Excalibur]

Ok my Maximum top end budget is £900 for speakers.



Oooh, so close. You'll need an extra tenner. (https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/active-full-range-speakers/hk-audio-premium-pro-12-a-active-speaker)

Yamaha in budget (https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/active-full-range-speakers/yamaha-dbr15-active-speakers-1-x-15-inches)

Go and listen somewhere. I heard the HKs in open air, and I thought the subs were connected. They beat my cabs (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-LDEB122AUK-Stinger-12-350W-Active-Speaker/EPL)

Cost effective wild card (http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/LD-Systems-GT15A-Active-PA-Loudspeaker/12A2)
I've not heard the GTs, but I expect them to sound nice. Basically, they're a more basic version of the Stingers.

Sound is very subjective, so listen before you buy is the golden rule. Golden. Shame you're in Wales, I reckon I could wangle a demo of just about every cab you're looking at. Hang fire with your spending, the best money you'll spend is getting to Coalville, believe me.

[TONYTIGER]

Have a look at these http://www.dasaudio.com/en/p/action-15a-2/ they can be had for £ 700.00 a pair brand new and in my opinion are much better quality than anything in your price range and are half price contact me if you want further details.








www.tonyjamesdisco.co.uk

[Benny Smyth]

You can get a pair of brand new RCF 712a for less than £900.

[mrrawuk]

Have a look at these http://www.dasaudio.com/en/p/action-15a-2/ they can be had for £ 700.00 a pair brand new and in my opinion are much better quality than anything in your price range and are half price contact me if you want further details.



I have never actually heard of these.

[mrrawuk]

Seems a friend of a friend has some RCF 312a and is in same area as me so going to go for a listen.]

RCF or Yamaha is looking likely :)

[TONYTIGER]

I have never actually heard of these.

Hi not that well Known in the Uk ,but quality gear in Europe and very costly ,have a few pairs in my hire stock and blow away my other active including Yamaha,RCF,and QSC and they are wooden cabs.

[ckpr2]

I have pretty much always made my own speakers.
I use 18mm plywood and brace it with 2 by 2 softwood.
I cover them in thin carpet which is hard wearing.
I put on cabinet corners and castors.

Here is my 21 inch Pyle based sub.
Nothing much to look at but very functional.
17624

[yourdj]

Definitely not. They're the type of speakers where once you've got them....you're not parting with them :)



I am looking for a Tokina 11-20mm 2.8 lens and like the Yamaha there are none second hand, so will bite the bullet and get a new one. :)


Have a look at these http://www.dasaudio.com/en/p/action-15a-2/ they can be had for £ 700.00 a pair brand new and in my opinion are much better quality than anything in your price range and are half price contact me if you want further details.


www.tonyjamesdisco.co.uk

Specs look good Tony apart from the weight - 18kg, but they are plywood, which is good. The electronics on the back are more basic and have less manual manipulation. Handy having RCA and separate mic mix/xlr input as I use this for ceremony and background/Microphone pa lots of the time so use a variety of inputs and requirements for bass/levels etc.

17625
17626

[TONYTIGER]

I am looking for a Tokina 11-20mm 2.8 lens and like the Yamaha there are none second hand, so will bite the bullet and get a new one. :)



Specs look good Tony apart from the weight - 18kg, but they are plywood, which is good. The electronics on the back are more basic and have less manual manipulation. Handy having RCA and separate mic mix/xlr input as I use this for ceremony and background/Microphone pa lots of the time so use a variety of inputs and requirements for bass/levels etc.

17625
17626

But they sound a lot better than the yamaha as i have 3 pairs in hire stock and they are much cheaper,but the yamahas are a very good speaker.

[mrrawuk]

I was able to hear a few different speakers over the last few days and for me and my needs now it will be RCF Art 312a mk3.

If my wallet my full then i would love the RCF EVOX 8.

Saw these and i was amazed at the size and the power of 2 of them.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_evox_8.htm

[yourdj]

But they sound a lot better than the yamaha as i have 3 pairs in hire stock and they are much cheaper,but the yamahas are a very good speaker.

thats interesting, how much better when considered for a mobile situation? :)
Whats the price difference for the 12's? They look similar to the Peavey system I tested for Promobile.
I muster say I liked those little plywood 10 inters. I was hoping they had forgotten then had loaned me them.

[Corabar Steve]

I have pretty much always made my own speakers.
I use 18mm plywood and brace it with 2 by 2 softwood.
I cover them in thin carpet which is hard wearing.
I put on cabinet corners and castors.

Here is my 21 inch Pyle based sub.
Nothing much to look at but very functional.


You forgot to use your smilie

designing electronic


:devil:

[ckpr2]

You forgot to use your smilie

designing electronic


:devil:

I recently got more adventurous and had a go at a folded horn speaker.
As it is glued the wood cutting needs to be more accurate than my previous bodge it and hide the gaps with carpet method.
17632

[funkymook]

I recently got more adventurous and had a go at a folded horn speaker.
As it is glued the wood cutting needs to be more accurate than my previous bodge it and hide the gaps with carpet method.
17632

That toilet would give someone a real shock once the bass line kicked in...

[ckpr2]

That toilet would give someone a real shock once the bass line kicked in...

Yes my brother commented on it looking like a toilet too.
Looks a bit better now, I have the other side on now.

[CRAZY K]

I've done 120 in a very large hotel room with the two LD 12" cabs, and it was loud. Plenty to spare. However, with the proviso that subs are forbidden, I'd want 15" drivers.

Ooh look, 15" drivers. (https://giggear.co.uk/buy/proel-v15a-powered-pa-speaker?gclid=CjwKEAiA5Ji0BRC5huTCyOTR3wISJACH4Bx4 554mpn2BFVLmx91nKmkDwNSVbDtHFbVtF7kMXy6ZyRoCiOHw_w cB) I have these, and while they're among the ugliest cabs I've ever seen, they really deliver the goods. As yet, I've never got them much above halfway on the gains on the back, and they've always delivered. Very impressive for the price.

As I've always said, if I could only have two cabs, regardless of the badge, they would have 15" drivers, and be made of wood, no matter what the badge on the front said.

Back on track--I have decided to try my passive Peavey UL15s through my Yamaha Box Amp together with the recently acquired EV 12 inch Actives from Darren:beer1:

Saturday ---Up to 200-- dodgy hall with massively high ceiling--just what you need :daft:

Could be interesting.

[mrrawuk]

Thanks to all who contributed to my knowledge about speakers....which was zero.

I had wanted the RCF Art 312's but in the end i went for the FBT J12a's after hearing them. I will look at getting one sub and for now i will concentrate on choosing a dj stand and some nice lights.