Buying a van

[rth_discos]

After the recent post about a van, highlighting the safety issues with a car transporting gear, I'm looking to get a van soon.

Am looking at one of the smaller vans, eg a Citroen Berlingo, Pegeot Blipper etc. Looking for the budget end.

But I'm not a great mechanic.

So what am I looking for in a van? What do I want to avoid? What mileage is "reasonable"?

And what aspects of a van could fail that would cause it to fail on a journey to a gig? The obvious one to me is the cam belt - so I'd look to replace the cam belt and water pump on any van I buy (most have little service history documentation).

Is there anything else I'd need to replace to increase reliability?

[ianforest]

From experience...buy from a main dealer, the newest you can afford and make sure you get warranty and so on.

I've got a Peugeot Partner, similar to the berlingo. Mountains of room inside.

[AndyMD]

And get in boarded out

[ukpartydj]

Vans last for ages, I've known a sprinters engine last for 280k and still running fine, vivaro 260k before needed new engine. My old VW was on 180k when sold, my 2006 vivaro on 140k and costs me on average £200 servicing and £200 repairs / per year... To me that's perfectly reasonable. Although I just spent £150 on new cam belt so might be a little higher this year.

I personally wouldn't buy a van which is too new as the price depreciates very quickly from 0-80k miles... I think a van with 60k was double the price of my 100k when I bought! Knowing that in 3-4 years time it'd be on 100k anyway I felt it would have been silly for me.

[yourdj]

They are just the same as buying a Desiel car really, except the insurance will be a load more.

I bought my last Astra van for £400, it had done 265,000 miles and was solid.
Well it was until I drove it into a deep puddle/mini lake. The Partner before that cost £500 and was also fine.

If you don't know much about mechanics, then maybe a dealer is good, but you will pay much more.
I would opt to getting someone who knows about vans to help you buy a good one privately.

I wold look at security (deadlocks/alarm) and a decent bulkhead and one with a turbo is good, as it will really annoy you.
I would not go back to a gutless sack of :Censored: and get a more powerful van. The Astra was pretty fast mind you. 2L DTI.

I would probably look at a Caddy if I was to buy another van.

[ppentertainments]

To be honest, should you buy a van that has been regularly serviced you should't have too much problem. Mileage isn't as important as on a car.

Once you buy one you will find what suits you and what doesn't - having it ply lined is great, however on mine it just has the floor lined and it is great as there are plenty of hooks on the sides still to strap things down.

You'll probably find once you get a van you won't look back, one of the best purchases I have made. It is a little costly if you need a car too, but well worth it if you can afford it. I couldn't for a lot of years, so like many, had to make do with cars and people carriers - the van is so much easier and the extra reassurance that your spare kit is out of sight on a night is worth it alone.

[Benny Smyth]

Consider contract hire. Better option than buying, in my opinion.

[Excalibur]

Consider contract hire. Better option than buying, in my opinion.
I did, but I couldn't find anyone offering a twelve year old LDV at advantageous rates. :(

[ppentertainments]

Consider contract hire. Better option than buying, in my opinion.
I keep getting told that, even by my accountant so must be true - I just can't get my head round it though, prefer buying then no monthly outgoings.

[Imagine]

I spent £1,200 on an old Toyota Hiace SWB van this time last year, and she's the best thing I ever got.

She hasn't got a turbo (that's a big downside and when it comes to the time to replace, it's high on my list of things I want, along with air-con).
Other than that, she's got 180,000 on the clock, and has literally acres of space in the back.

What to look for? No worse than buying a diesel car really (most vans are based on cars now anyway unless you're going for something of the Transit ilk), they're just built to last longer/work harder.

As for insurance....my van insurance is exactly the same amount as my car insurance on my MR2 and my Zafira. Maybe it's because I'm that little bit older (:zip:). I did query the £200 a year fully comp with the insurers last year when I got it (I was expecting four times that having heard other people moaning about it). They're fully aware of what it's for and what it's carrying and the documentation from them proves it.

We'll see what happens in a couple of weeks time when it's time to renew ;)

[yourdj]

Consider contract hire. Better option than buying, in my opinion.

I would do that I think, good for a busy DJ, pays for itself and you upgrade every year or so by the sounds of things from other people I know leasing. Worth looking at what it costs per week and how much you have made on average per week for the last few years. :)

[CRAZY K]

From experience...buy from a main dealer, the newest you can afford and make sure you get warranty and so on.

I've got a Peugeot Partner, similar to the berlingo. Mountains of room inside.

Yes, it's more expensive but if you get a good warranty can be worth a fortune.

My Galaxy had something like 2 grands worth of repairs under Warranty ( that's gross retail cost) not trade.

Previous owner had let loads of things go to pot and the Dealer missed them on the trade in.

Also be wary of non high street traders who say things like---bring it back we will fix any faults--yeah great until I pointed out they could go bust tomorrow---oh no we won't go bust we are 30 years trading etc,

Rolls Royce anyone ???

You need the backing of an Insurance Warranty or a major name dealer Ford, Peugeot, VWetc.

Not Bob from Southend!,,,,,,,,

Also get a 3 year warranty if you can, I paid £400 and claimed back £1000 after turbo went !!!!!

[Benny Smyth]

I keep getting told that, even by my accountant so must be true - I just can't get my head round it though, prefer buying then no monthly outgoings.

"If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, lease it."

My new van should be coming off the production line at the end of this month and I went with contract hire over keeping my current van because I worked out that while it may cost me more to run on a month-to-month basis, come the end of the year and the arrival of tax time, I will save overall.

I've gone for a three year term and come the end of that, I'll just give the van back without the hassle of trying to sell it on for a fraction of a fraction that I would have purchased it for and I'll get to say "Thanks very much, it's been emotional. I'll have that new one over there now please."

[ppentertainments]

"If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, lease it."

Totally agree. For me though I drive an older van - only cost £1500 and does what is required. I can't see the point in me leasing a new van to do exactly the same job, just newer.

I rather use an older van and have a nice car - admittedly financially probably not the wisest move lol

[Excalibur]

"If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, lease it."

Alternatively, find one that's pretty much finished depreciating. :D




I've gone for a three year term and come the end of that, I'll just give the van back without the hassle of trying to sell it on for a fraction of a fraction that I would have purchased it for and I'll get to say "Thanks very much, it's been emotional. I'll have that new one over there now please."

Just a note of caution, Benny. If you take it back looking like it's come straight out of the local Stock Cars Demolition Derby, there will be penalties, probably big ones. Check the annual mileage on your current vehicle also, as if you exceed a mileage limit ( if one is imposed ) it's penalty time again.

There was a famous story locally about a police force which boasted of the money it had saved on a new leasing deal. Sadly, the negotiators of the deal didn't know how many miles a year police cars do, and since they all hit the limits way before renewal, they ended up with hundreds of police cars parked upon an aerodrome that they couldn't afford to use, because they were approaching the limit. :daft:

[Benny Smyth]

Just a note of caution, Benny. If you take it back looking like it's come straight out of the local Stock Cars Demolition Derby, there will be penalties, probably big ones. Check the annual mileage on your current vehicle also, as if you exceed a mileage limit ( if one is imposed ) it's penalty time again.

Already way ahead of you there, kind sir. :beer1:

[surround sounds]

I brought mine and it still comes off my tax at the end of the year, I was also worried about extra charges being added on for bumps/mileage etc. Intrest rates are very low so my accountant said there is not much difference between them all. Plus its mine which I wanted

[Excalibur]

"If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, lease it."



I brought mine and it still comes off my tax at the end of the year, I was also worried about extra charges being added on for bumps/mileage etc. Intrest rates are very low so my accountant said there is not much difference between them all. Plus its mine which I wanted

Many years ago, when I got my first laptop, leasing was way in front. Now I don't think it's a huge difference. The big advantage of a lease is that you know every month what you'll pay, exclusive of fuel. Mind you, it could be similar with new vans for the first few years.

You pays yer money.......................................... :confused::)

[TONYTIGER]

Leasing is all right,but do not forget you will have to pay vat and i suspect that not many people on here are vat registered.

[Crown Jules]

I love my Vivaro but a minor and very annoying regret is not going for a slightly higher spec van with electric windows. On a hot sunny day of which we seem to have more and more each year it's not possible to reach across and open/close the nearside window. Air con is not needed but electric windows yes please.

[Nakatomi]

Leasing is all right,but do not forget you will have to pay vat and i suspect that not many people on here are vat registered.

I wish I made enough money to justify being VAT registered! (in time, dear boy, in time.. I hope).

[ckpr2]

I used a trailer for my first disco.
I bought a trailer with sides and converted into a box trailer.
Served me well for years.
It has the advantage that you can take the trailer off the car when not in use.
Although if not secured they are open to be pinched.

You need good suspension on a trailer so as not damage the gear going over bumps.
I never had a failure in the good few years I used mine.
Although I did put sensitive equipment like amps and mixers in the car boot.

The trailer was well balanced so I could take it off the car and spin it if required.

My only mishap was getting stuck in snow on the A6 road from Kendal to Shap summit after a Christmas do 4am finish.
But managed to turn around and use motorway instead.

[Excalibur]

I love my Vivaro but a minor and very annoying regret is not going for a slightly higher spec van with electric windows.

Reason I'd like electric windows is so I can accost pedestrians for directions when I'm lost!! :eek: I've been known to stop the van and jump out. :D

[yourdj]

I used a trailer for my first disco.
It has the advantage that you can take the trailer off the car when not in use.
Although if not secured they are open to be pinched.


I liked my trailer as I used to have impreza's so I had a half decent car to drive during the week. Loved my last wagon, superb car for driving. Great for towing also being 4wd. They are dangerous though as they can destabilise the car and as you say very easy to nick/breakinto. I once hit a bend on one and the trailer skidded across the road. Any faster it would have pulled the car with it. the wheel also fell off once, en route to a gig.

Not sure the increase in insurance, but trailers do hold their value (I think I sold Daren's for more than i bought it for in the end?) and hold a lot of kit. The main issue is however trying to park and manoeuvre in tight spaces as you technically have a vehicle the size of a small lorry. I would not go back to one thats for sure, despite the benefits, with cost, load safety and being able to have a decent car. :)

[funktions]

I can recommend a vw caddymax tdi if you can afford one, I get 50mpg if I drive nicely, but as its a company van its more like 42-45, feels like a car to drive.

[ukpartydj]

I love my Vivaro but a minor and very annoying regret is not going for a slightly higher spec van with electric windows. On a hot sunny day of which we seem to have more and more each year it's not possible to reach across and open/close the nearside window. Air con is not needed but electric windows yes please.

Bad experiences leaves me disliking electric windows. More things to go wrong, bad connection and your window might open itself when locked - remote central locking = easy to forget to lock the van / accidently unlock whilst putting keys in pocket... I have manual secondary locks just incase. I'm quite careful yet on occasion I somehow forget / unlock accidently.

A lock with your phone would be awesome and solve the issue for me, maybe some sort of nfc/Bluetooth combo! Wonder of they've thought about this!?

As for leasing a van. I don't think it's cheaper. Say it's £165 per month that's 4 grand for 2 years.

Or you can buy a van for say 4 grand then sell in 2 years... For maybe 3 grand... Sooo it's great if you want a brand new van but a second hand van will be much cheaper.

[yourdj]

A lock with your phone would be awesome and solve the issue for me


There are loads of phone security apps. i would not want to risk that and then loose my phone or the battery runs out!

http://www.redmondpie.com/carlock-is-an-advanced-new-smartphone-based-car-security-system/

there are separate security devices are also good you can lock and start it from a mile away!
i thought about getting ones for my zafira, they are only £130, or even 50 for a cheapo one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221844900836?adgroupid=13585920426&hlpht=true&hlpv=2&rlsatarget=pla-131843278626&adtype=pla&ff3=1&lpid=122&poi=&ul_noapp=true&limghlpsr=true&googleloc=1006770&device=c&chn=ps&campaignid=207297426&crdt=0&ff12=67&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff14=122&viphx=1&ops=true&ff13=80

[ukpartydj]

There are loads of phone security apps. i would not want to risk that and then loose my phone or the battery runs out!

I see! That's not a bad idea with the alerts etc. I think with an app there is soo much you can do and it'll be much more secure than a key. I guess you could just have an Nfc chip to touch the car if battery is low.

[Benny Smyth]

As for leasing a van. I don't think it's cheaper. Say it's £165 per month that's 4 grand for 2 years.

Or you can buy a van for say 4 grand then sell in 2 years... For maybe 3 grand... Sooo it's great if you want a brand new van but a second hand van will be much cheaper.

£165 a month which is mostly (if not fully) claimable come tax time, which means paying out less. Were you to buy the van and sell it, you may also have to pay tax on the £3k you get back for it (this is running on the assumption that the van would still be worth £3k after a DJ has ragged it for two years :lol:).

Also, and I can't remember the specifics about this, but if you own a van (or any vehicle for your business), doesn't that effect how much you pay in tax? Something about it being an asset.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I think you can take a percentage off the value.
I bought a new van a year ago. £8,400 plus the interest over 4 years.
I am not sure exactly how it works as my missus does our accounts but you can claim a bit off it each year I think? (although, don't quote me on that)

[rth_discos]

Purchasing a van comes under AIA:

Annual investment allowance

You can deduct the full value of an item that qualifies for annual investment allowance (AIA) from your profits before tax.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

That's it.

[rth_discos]

£165 a month which is mostly (if not fully) claimable come tax time, which means paying out less. Were you to buy the van and sell it, you may also have to pay tax on the £3k you get back for it (this is running on the assumption that the van would still be worth £3k after a DJ has ragged it for two years :lol:).

Also, and I can't remember the specifics about this, but if you own a van (or any vehicle for your business), doesn't that effect how much you pay in tax? Something about it being an asset.

£165 a month fully claimable - with no asset owned.

Or buy a van (even on finance) and get the full value claimable. At least you own an asset.

Yes, you pay tax on the sale value when you sell it on (as you do with all assets), but that's because you've already had the tax saving from buying it.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Check the annual mileage on your current vehicle also, as if you exceed a mileage limit ( if one is imposed ) it's penalty time again.



Not if you hand it back and just get another vehicle.

[ukpartydj]

Purchasing a van comes under AIA:

Annual investment allowance

You can deduct the full value of an item that qualifies for annual investment allowance (AIA) from your profits before tax.

I believe vehicles are excluded from AIA...?

I depreciate mine at 20% per year if I remember correctly along with the rest of my asset pool.

[rth_discos]

I believe vehicles are excluded from AIA...?


Cars are, vans aren't.

You can still depreciate at 20% per annum if you prefer.

AIA allows you to claim it all back in one go.

[ukpartydj]

Cars are, vans aren't.

You can still depreciate at 20% per annum if you prefer.

AIA allows you to claim it all back in one go.

Mind is truly blown! Thank you for that, I will certainly be considering that come new van time! Mine is being depreciated by 20% pa and I seem to remember my accountant telling me I had to!
I don't really use an accountant now so that's no doubt a very handy bit of info!

Also... +point for vans over cars it seems

[Excalibur]

Check the annual mileage on your current vehicle also, as if you exceed a mileage limit ( if one is imposed ) it's penalty time again.



Not if you hand it back and just get another vehicle.

I'm not sure we're on the same page here, Darren. What I was meaning was that some agreements have a mileage limit, as per the example of the police. Exceeding that figure incurs a financial penalty. If your deal had a fifty thousand limit, and you had done a hundred thousand, I can't see the hirers turning round and saying that doesn't matter as you're getting another one.

Obviously, as I've never personally looked into it, I could easily be wrong.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not sure we're on the same page here, Darren. What I was meaning was that some agreements have a mileage limit, as per the example of the police. Exceeding that figure incurs a financial penalty. If your deal had a fifty thousand limit, and you had done a hundred thousand, I can't see the hirers turning round and saying that doesn't matter as you're getting another one.

Obviously, as I've never personally looked into it, I could easily be wrong.

You are.

If they hand the vehicle back and finance a new one, the mileage isn't charged.

[Benny Smyth]

You are.

If they hand the vehicle back and finance a new one, the mileage isn't charged.

When you say hand back, do you mean at the end of the agreement (i.e. 36 months) or part way through?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

When you say hand back, do you mean at the end of the agreement (i.e. 36 months) or part way through?

End of the agreement. I am basing this on what I was told as I have a PCP with my car currently. I have gone over on my first year by around 1000 miles, so did a little bit of research. I get charged 8p per mile over the agreed mileage, but this becomes irrelevant if I am using the car to finance the next one.

[Benny Smyth]

End of the agreement. I am basing this on what I was told as I have a PCP with my car currently. I have gone over on my first year by around 1000 miles, so did a little bit of research. I get charged 8p per mile over the agreed mileage, but this becomes irrelevant if I am using the car to finance the next one.

Would that policy on contract purchase also be applicable to contract hire?

[rth_discos]

End of the agreement. I am basing this on what I was told as I have a PCP with my car currently. I have gone over on my first year by around 1000 miles, so did a little bit of research. I get charged 8p per mile over the agreed mileage, but this becomes irrelevant if I am using the car to finance the next one.

I think that's because they use the value of the car to finance the 8p per mile that you have to fund.

However... PCP relies on the resale value being reasonable when returned. If they have over-estimated it, and it's not worth as much as it was planned to be, there may not be enough equity to fund the extra mileage AND the deposit for the next van.

In fact there's a bit of a fear that PCP contracts are about to go a bit wrong, as they may not even have enough equity left in the vehicle to fund the deposit of the next van - so you'd just hand it back and that's it. If this is the case, on a widespread scale, it's the end of the car industry and will send the world in to a massive recession - but that's a topic for another day!

But be aware, PCP isn't always what's it's sold as.