Help! Quick advice needed!

[Thundercat]

Hi all,

Basically i'm after some subs, and i have the following two choices right now:

2 x Class-D 15" Passive Bass Bins (CD15N)
Seem to have 'Ronseal' reviews, does its job, nothing spectacular, currently at £42 for the pair on ebay with 4h left, or:

2 x QTX QT15SA 15" Active Subs
Guy i know has the 18"s, says theyre good, available for me to pick up for £100 today.

Reason for these choices, both very local to me, both good condition, and i'm after something lower end (Cheap and not-so-nasty, hopefully) to begin with.

Thanks guys

Gav

[Nakatomi]

The QTX bins are nothing like the power they say they are. 100Wrms isn't even a possibility with them. The amplifier boards are puny with a capital P.

[yourdj]

Hi all,

Basically i'm after some subs, and i have the following two choices right now:

2 x Class-D 15" Passive Bass Bins (CD15N)
Seem to have 'Ronseal' reviews, does its job, nothing spectacular, currently at £42 for the pair on ebay with 4h left, or:

2 x QTX QT15SA 15" Active Subs
Guy i know has the 18"s, says theyre good, available for me to pick up for £100 today.

Reason for these choices, both very local to me, both good condition, and i'm after something lower end (Cheap and not-so-nasty, hopefully) to begin with.

Thanks guys

Gav

QTX kit has always been a bit crap (used to be skytec). At £89 new I would not have too much faith in the quality/volume of that cab, but if you can get it over £40 then i guess its good value? I would choose active over passive. You have said class D, but that usually refers to the digital amp used, making them active? is that a brand now?

The box class D ones from Thomann are very good for the price.
You get 2 satellite outs on this so only need 2 passive tops. Probably too expensive i guess? https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_cl_115_sub_mkii.htm

[Thundercat]

These are the Class D ones:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/2x-Class-D-15-Bass-Bin-CD15N/232083403058?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&_trksid=p5197.c100068.m2280&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211130857%26meid%3De bdf731f10cc4b69b07dfeed45a5c867%26pid%3D100068%26c lkid%3D8533524567470643169&_qi=RTM2063723

Yeah just keeping costs down (or trying to) at the minute, but some subs should be better than no subs! I'm thinking go with the actives purely to avoid any problems going from amp to sub and then out to tops, and either pushing the subs harder than they can go, or losing output at the top, or tripping the amp!


The box class D ones from Thomann are very good for the price.
You get 2 satellite outs on this so only need 2 passive tops. Probably too expensive i guess? https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_cl_115_sub_mkii.htm

Yeah, a little bit too much at the minute. I'll get there one day!

[Excalibur]

I probably wouldn't recommend the QTX subs, even though they're active. They can be made to sound good, but that requires considerable work, and probably ripping out the amp module.

I'm guessing you already have passive tops? If so, you're thinking run everything from the one amp. It's a logical plan, but the Class D subs need a fairly big amp to get much out of them, and also the crossover in them isn't fantastic. Best results come from ripping them out and using an external crossover of some sort. They're usually known as " Active Crossovers ", and aren't that expensive per se. You'd need a second amp that way though, which bumps up the price.

What tops and amp do you have already? I'd recommend Alto active subs, if you're lucky you can get a 15" one s/h for around the £200 mark, and you could get by with one initially, as they're a twin channel jobbie.

Keep asking questions, and we'll do our best to give good advice.

Edit: The one Toby has linked to from Thomann is an " all in one " solution, it drives itself as a sub, and two passive tops as well. Biggest downside is you then have all your eggs in one basket.

[ppentertainments]

To be honest I wouldn't bother with either - I've owned the class-d ones and heard the skytec.

Save up a few more quid and buy a decent active one instead - be well worth it in the long run and one decent one would blow away 2 of the ones you are looking at.

Something like this would be ok to start with if in a hurry (and it is delivered) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alto-TS-SUB18-600W-18-Active-PA-DJ-Disco-Subwoofer-SUB-Bass-Speaker-TSSUB18-/171356778911?hash=item27e5a8f19f:g:~OUAAOSwPcVVmlV 7 although personally if limited budget i would look around for anyone selling one locally.

[Thundercat]

I probably wouldn't recommend the QTX subs, even though they're active. They can be made to sound good, but that requires considerable work, and probably ripping out the amp module.

I'm guessing you already have passive tops? If so, you're thinking run everything from the one amp. It's a logical plan, but the Class D subs need a fairly big amp to get much out of them, and also the crossover in them isn't fantastic. Best results come from ripping them out and using an external crossover of some sort. They're usually known as " Active Crossovers ", and aren't that expensive per se. You'd need a second amp that way though, which bumps up the price.

What tops and amp do you have already? I'd recommend Alto active subs, if you're lucky you can get a 15" one s/h for around the £200 mark, and you could get by with one initially, as they're a twin channel jobbie.

Keep asking questions, and we'll do our best to give good advice.

Edit: The one Toby has linked to from Thomann is an " all in one " solution, it drives itself as a sub, and two passive tops as well. Biggest downside is you then have all your eggs in one basket.

Ive currently got a crest cpx1500 performance and two Yamaha S15e passive tops, if that helps?

(EDIT) Here is a link to the amp manual, if anyone could advise me whether this amp is capable of powering passive subs as well as tops?

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/121409/Crest-Audio-Cpx-1500.html

Afraid a £300 sub is out of the question at the minute. Please dont think im rebuffing your advice, and i understand 'buy cheap buy twice', but thats kind of my plan. I intend to use cheap ones to fill the bass in for a few months until i can afford to replace them with one or two decent subs, and then some decent tops. These really will only be a temporary measure!

[Excalibur]

Ive currently got a crest cpx1500 performance and two Yamaha S15e passive tops, if that helps?

(EDIT) Here is a link to the amp manual, if anyone could advise me whether this amp is capable of powering passive subs as well as tops?

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/121409/Crest-Audio-Cpx-1500.html



Aha! Now I know exactly what it is. The piccy gives it away, it's a Peavey copy/clone. No idea whether it's similar quality, but it's actually a little less powerful.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but if you run the Class D and Yamahas from that, they'll be getting around 150w per cab. Considering I've fed the Class D with anywhere from 500w to 700w with no ill effects, it's just not enough. They're pretty inefficient cabs, so need quite a lot of power.

If I were going to use Class D bins, I'd have one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-2600-Power-Amp-with-Behringer-Crossover-and-Flightcase-/182287775356?hash=item2a7132b67c:g:Sc4AAOSwOdpX1DW Y) at least feeding them, and your Crest running the tops from the built in crossover. You can find the 2600 around £200 s/h sometimes.

Both that and your Crest have crossovers built in, so you don't need an external one.

[Nakatomi]

Ah good ole money burning holes in pockets. £100 spent today means the £300 sub you'd be better off with is even further away than it is now. Never kid yourself you'll make your money back on the 'bargain'

[Excalibur]

Ah good ole money burning holes in pockets. £100 spent today means the £300 sub you'd be better off with is even further away than it is now. Never kid yourself you'll make your money back on the 'bargain'

Justin's not too far away with that opinion. This (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alto-Ts-Sub15-Active-PA-Subwoofer-/282187424006?hash=item41b3ae6106:g:YB0AAOSwmfhX4xA s) would be a better bet than two QTX, and a similar price.

[Thundercat]

Right, erm, so lets say (for arguments sake of course) that i came to Nandos, took my eye off the ball a bit and i accidentally won the Class Ds from ebay, before i managed to get back onto this forum and saw all the posts advising me not to get the Class Ds.

So, in this completely hypothetical situation, what amp would i hypothetically need to buy in order to solve my hypothetical problem of buying speakers that i cant, hypothetically, power?

[yourdj]

Justin's not too far away with that opinion. This (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alto-Ts-Sub15-Active-PA-Subwoofer-/282187424006?hash=item41b3ae6106:g:YB0AAOSwmfhX4xA s) would be a better bet than two QTX, and a similar price.

Thats a nice sub that for the price. 123 SPL, very pretty, made of plywood and under 30kg.
I recon that will be better than both subs you have linked too on Ebay tbh.
Quality, reliability and probably bass frequency/volume??

Less lugging about and storage. Worth every penny.

18057

[Imagine]

Avoid the QTX's like the plague.....I have a pair of them sitting in my store (I'll eventually get around to stripping them out and doing something with them to make them useful).

Yes they're cheap, but you really do get what you pay for, and these things are puny and unreliable I'm afraid, with nothing even close to the advertised power.

[Excalibur]

So, in this completely hypothetical situation, what amp would i hypothetically need to buy in order to solve my hypothetical problem of buying speakers that i cant, hypothetically, power?
From post #8:




If I were going to use Class D bins, I'd have one of these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-2600-Power-Amp-with-Behringer-Crossover-and-Flightcase-/182287775356?hash=item2a7132b67c:g:Sc4AAOSwOdpX1DW Y) at least feeding them, and your Crest running the tops from the built in crossover. You can find the 2600 around £200 s/h sometimes.



PV2600, Yamaha P5000S, or Studiomaster 2500/3500 are all suitable. And £200 plus. And chuffing heavy.

[Thundercat]

Thanks excalibur, you really know your stuff. Appreciate your help. Can anyone tell me why my posts keep having to ve checked by moderators before they go live? Im not adding anything dodgy that would flag up!

[Benny Smyth]

Thanks excalibur, you really know your stuff. Appreciate your help. Can anyone tell me why my posts keep having to ve checked by moderators before they go live? Im not adding anything dodgy that would flag up!

It's because you're not adding anything dodgy. We want smut!

[Excalibur]

Thanks Excalibur, you really know your stuff. Appreciate your help.
Ah my young friend, I have trodden this exact path many years ago, and at some time have possessed almost everything mentioned in this thread. I'm wearing the t-shirt. ;)


Can anyone tell me why my posts keep having to be checked by moderators before they go live? Im not adding anything dodgy that would flag up!
Don't start that one, please! The forum is like me, old and grumpy. It randomly moderates posts for reasons mere mortals like me can't understand. We keep an eye out, and try to approve them as quickly as possible.

[yourdj]

The forum is like me, old and grumpy.

And your the jovial moderator. Thank your lucky stars you have not got Steve assigned to your posts :p

[musicology]

And your the jovial moderator. Thank your lucky stars you have not got Steve assigned to your posts :p

Indeed

[DazzyD]

It also gets quite confusing and hard to follow when you post this:


From post #8:



PV2600, Yamaha P5000S, or Studiomaster 2500/3500 are all suitable. And £200 plus. And chuffing heavy.

and the question you're answering is in a post that is still awaiting moderation! So no-one can see it except us moderators!! :daft: :daft: :daft:

Anyway, I've approved it now so everyone can see what Peter was replying to!

[Excalibur]

and the question you're answering is in a post that is still awaiting moderation! So no-one can see it except us moderators!! :daft: :daft: :daft:

Anyway, I've approved it now so everyone can see what Peter was replying to!

Oops. :o:o I thought I'd got them all, I must have been tired and missed one.

[Thundercat]

Yeah that confused me a tad too, but i thought it was just a glitch! I have another question if i may...

I have a powerstrip... what can i safely use it for? Are we talking lights, or can i run my amp and mixer from it? Seems like a good bit of kit but even as good as it it im sure running too much heavy stuff off it will fry it? Or is it built for that? Never used one before!

[Excalibur]

I have a powerstrip... what can i safely use it for? Are we talking lights, or can i run my amp and mixer from it?

Again, I'm not familiar with it, but I'd expect it to be rated to 13 amps. That's around 3Kw. On most of your kit there will be a figure quoted in Watts, and as long as they all add up to less than 3,000 you're likely to be OK. That's a ridiculously oversimplified answer, but it's basically correct.

[Thundercat]

Again, I'm not familiar with it, but I'd expect it to be rated to 13 amps. That's around 3Kw. On most of your kit there will be a figure quoted in Watts, and as long as they all add up to less than 3,000 you're likely to be OK. That's a ridiculously oversimplified answer, but it's basically correct.

Its an Acme PC-08 Powercentre, ive actually just had it out as i was removing my Numark CDN mk4, never going to use them, and discovered the make and model and upon googling it, found they are only really for lighting and low power applications. 8 channel, 6a per channel but only a max of 15a total!

[Nakatomi]

Its an Acme PC-08 Powercentre, ive actually just had it out as i was removing my Numark CDN mk4, never going to use them, and discovered the make and model and upon googling it, found they are only really for lighting and low power applications. 8 channel, 6a per channel but only a max of 15a total!

Only a max of 13A total if it's plugged into a single 13A mains socket :)

Most discos, mine included will be lucky if they pull 2000W from the wall especially these days with LED lighting.

[Thundercat]

Only a max of 13A total if it's plugged into a single 13A mains socket :)

Most discos, mine included will be lucky if they pull 2000W from the wall especially these days with LED lighting.

It says on it 15a, and there is a 20mm (i think) 15a fuse in the front but god knows what the plug is! Havent looked as i havent used it yet, although it looks like it could be handy in future! Need to get rid of my socking great NDJ Quartet 300s and replace them with something like a Swarm or two. Also had a look at gigbars, although i think i want a deckstand with a double bar on top rather than a T-bar.

[Excalibur]

and upon googling it, found they are only really for lighting and low power applications. 8 channel, 6a per channel but only a max of 15a total!
It has IEC sockets, so unless you fit those plugs to everything, it's limited. Best suited to lighting, so you can switch your effects on and off as you wish. For your sound, get a surge protected multiway connector with 13amp sockets. There are loads to choose from.


Only a max of 13A total if it's plugged into a single 13A mains socket :)

Most discos, mine included will be lucky if they pull 2000W from the wall especially these days with LED lighting.

Again, basically correct.

[Thundercat]

For your sound, get a surge protected multiway connector with 13amp sockets. There are loads to choose from.

Any you could recommend? And would one of these make it safer to run more from one socket? Im thinking in terms of say amp, mixer, maybe laptop power from one multiway. Im quite mindful of not overloading a single socket, but im also concerned that one day im going to turn up to a venue with a questionable amount of sockets where i need to be!

[Excalibur]

It says on it 15a, and there is a 20mm (i think) 15a fuse in the front .

Might be rated at 15amps, but fed from a 13amp plug, it can only deliver 13amps. A little bit of a safety factor is always good.


but god knows what the plug is!
Most likely bets are that it's an old 15amp with round pins, or a blue ceeform which could deliver at least 16amps, depending on its size. The safest rule is if you don't understand, take it to a tame sparky, or similarly qualified person. Electricity kills.


Any you could recommend? And would one of these make it safer to run more from one socket? Im thinking in terms of say amp, mixer, maybe laptop power from one multiway. Im quite mindful of not overloading a single socket, but im also concerned that one day im going to turn up to a venue with a questionable amount of sockets where i need to be!

I got one of these (http://cpc.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15002&langId=69&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=PL12985&storeId=10180) Available in many cable lengths and plug configurations. Website isn't the easiest to navigate though. Other suppliers are available.

Justin was correct that most small to medium disco rigs will run off one 13amp wall socket just fine. It's always preferable to use two, but needs must.Lots of high powered filament/discharge lamps will place a heavier load than LED of course.

As I said, read the wattage ratings on the kit, add them all up, and anything less than 3000 is acceptable. Any questions, ask away.

[DazzyD]

Wherever possible I always try to run my show from two separate sockets - one for the PA and one for the lighting. I hate having to use just one socket but, as Peter says, sometimes needs must.

[yourdj]

Wherever possible I always try to run my show from two separate sockets

Same here, especially when using Haze machines as they seem to draw a lot of power.

[Excalibur]

Same here, especially when using Haze machines as they seem to draw a lot of power.

They seem to draw a lot of power because they do indeed draw a lot of power! :Censored: great heating elements have that characteristic, just like the old electric fires with bars.

[mattydj50]

Its an Acme PC-08 Powercentre, ive actually just had it out as i was removing my Numark CDN mk4, never going to use them, and discovered the make and model and upon googling it, found they are only really for lighting and low power applications. 8 channel, 6a per channel but only a max of 15a total!

It will have an overall 15A rating to allow for hard wired installation into a heavy power situation via a fused connection. That will date back to when nightclubs and large roadshows needed their own power statios to provide enough juice.

I have one with the obvious 13A plug fitted, though as has been commented on, with LED lights these days, I'd struggle to get anything like that through it.

[Nakatomi]

I think excluding my hazer my lightshow would only ever draw 400W & that's with everything on at the same time. My first show would've been 1200W just for my spot boxes.

[Excalibur]

I think excluding my hazer my lightshow would only ever draw 400W & that's with everything on at the same time. My first show would've been 1200W just for my spot boxes.

It's not unusual for my light show to be as low as 250w, a powerbar and two moonflowers. Contrast with a colleague who draws 1,000 to 1250w for four to six halogen effects.