Sound Limiters

[ppentertainments]

Love them or hate them, they seem to be popping up in a lot more venues - mainly due to wedding venues nor really being suitable in my opinion.

However, does a venue have any obligation to inform people booking about the limiter and any restrictions in place. Obviously morally I would like to think they do, however this does not seem to be the case. Just wondering if there is anything legally, or information about it, to suggest that people need to be made aware of restrictions ?

[musicology]

I find that customers are rarely aware that a limiter is fitted. I make sure I tell them if I know about it. Some are a problem, some aren't.
Venues don't really want to promote that part of their "services"!

[Imagine]

I find that customers are rarely aware that a limiter is fitted. I make sure I tell them if I know about it. Some are a problem, some aren't.
Venues don't really want to promote that part of their "services"!

Same here. I'll ALWAYS make the client aware of such things if I know about them before they even book me.
The last thing I want is hassle on the night because I can't go as loud as they'd like.

I've got an overly sensitive one this coming Saturday unfortunately :(

[ppentertainments]

I find that customers are rarely aware that a limiter is fitted. I make sure I tell them if I know about it. Some are a problem, some aren't.
Venues don't really want to promote that part of their "services"!

I do the same, but I think a lot don't really heed the warning and really should not be up to us to be the informant. It may be detrimental if we inform customers, whereas our hands are tied. I really think a venue should take responsibility after all it is part of their offering

[DJColsie]

I am a recommended supplier at a marque wedding venue that has had noise issues in the past.

As such restrictions were put in place including a sound limiter and local authority restrictions which said that all speakers must be placed no the floor (no speaker stands or poles).

Over the last 3 years we have worked to restrictions and the venue has had no complaints for 3 years and has had the need for a sound limiter removed from its licence but not the speaker stand restriction! Maybe in another 3 years eh!

The venue have been very honest with prospective clients and they are all aware of the situation. The venue does prefer that they use one of the recommended suppliers as we know and adhere to the rules. If they use their own DJ, they have to sign to say they are aware of and will stick to the restrictions.

This has shown though that things can improve with everyone's co-operation.

[musicology]

I am a recommended supplier at a marque wedding venue that has had noise issues in the past.

As such restrictions were put in place including a sound limiter and local authority restrictions which said that all speakers must be placed no the floor (no speaker stands or poles).

Over the last 3 years we have worked to restrictions and the venue has had no complaints for 3 years and has had the need for a sound limiter removed from its licence but not the speaker stand restriction! Maybe in another 3 years eh!

The venue have been very honest with prospective clients and they are all aware of the situation. The venue does prefer that they use one of the recommended suppliers as we know and adhere to the rules. If they use their own DJ, they have to sign to say they are aware of and will stick to the restrictions.

This has shown though that things can improve with everyone's co-operation.

Very sensible policy. If only all venues were so upfront.

[Excalibur]

I had one on Saturday. When asked where I should set up, the Landlord replied " This corner here. Not the other corner, because the plugs over there are connected to the Noise pollution measures", ie a Formula Sound Sentry.

He asked us to lower the volume at 11pm, folk weren't supposed to sit outside after 9.30pm, and he was having kittens in case we said we intended to play past midnight. :eek:

Incidentally, we watched the limiter all night, and as far as I could see we flashed one red light once for a fraction of a second, so it looked workable enough.

As to venues telling clients there's a limiter, I'll maintain a dignified :zip:

[Zog]

I seem to be on a run of good 'un's at the moment :)

So last night, village hall and rescheduled from last year. I don't normally do too many village hall weddings because they rarely work for me for some reason. I sort of went into last night half hearted and not expecting too much.

Turns out I was wrong.

Lovely hall, easy access (makes a nice change), one of those magical Emcee fella's running the day who's actually on the same course as me so a bit of a catch up there whilst setting up. And then into action.

I had a very small request list and couldn't really fathom where the night was going. Started off nice and up-beat and quickly descended into a cheezy-weezy kind of night for a while. The dance floor's full.....I'm going to keep mining until they tire :)

Eventually ended up going through all the standards and as is becoming the norm, a lot of indie stuff. Down to just a dozen guests by the end of the night and got a round of applause for my efforts. A couple of guests were tasked with locking up the hall after I left and were generous enough to lug the kit out to the van for me (having first determined that they were sober enough to assist).

Another definite win for me.

The next two however could well be appearing in the members version of this thread. The venue for the next two weeks appeared in a mahusive thread on MDJN last night having had an overly sensitive limiter fitted. The chap who was there last night is so concerned about it (it knocked him out 7 times during the evening and at very minimal volumes) that he actually called me this morning to let me know how bad it is. Seem's the Maui5 Go's and a UPS will be the order of the day for the next couple then.

.................................................. ........................................

Where there is a noise limiting device, some with traffic lights, some without, I have run a long 13 Amp extension lead from a non controlled socket in a corridor or other room than the "stage socket that is controlled by the sound limiter. This then removes the blikin' awful nuisance tripping mid show.

Zog.


........................

[Excalibur]

Wayne remarked that he has two upcoming gigs with a vicious sound limiter that someone else has personally warned him about. An unconnected post came up at the same time on Fb about the blasted things ruining your kit, and I got a rollocking for saying that I had battery powered PA and playout. I couldn't last a whole night without power, but there isn't an interruption when the socket dies for ten seconds, and my kit stays safe.

Someone gave me both barrels, saying that was a great way to close down venues, and bite the hand that feeds me. In the way of Fb, I haven't seen the time honoured suggestion of " find a socket that's not on the limiter " yet, but I'm sure one will appear, possibly already has. :whistle:



Mod note: Would you look at that! How unexpected for that to happen. :)


Right boys and girls, we know the bypassing of limiters with a " clean " socket is just plain wrong, but what about us battery powered chaps? Right or wrong? Floor is yours. We know that the subject of noise and licences is a big thing nowadays. I could tell a story or two.

[rth_discos]

Right boys and girls, we know the bypassing of limiters with a " clean " socket is just plain wrong, but what about us battery powered chaps? Right or wrong? Floor is yours. We know that the subject of noise and licences is a big thing nowadays. I could tell a story or two.

Bypassing a limited with a clean socket is not wrong if you were to plug say a lamp into the limiter sockets, and use that as your warning, therefore keeping within the sound limits set.

Same with the battery speaker - I'm assuming some of your kit still switches off, such as your lights, so as long as that means your immediately bringing your volume down to be in line with the limits set by the limiter then I see no issue.

If you are using the battery equipment to blatantly ignore the limiter and produce a volume in excess of what is permitted (which of course is not what you would do), well that is where the issue occurs.

[Imagine]

Bypassing a limited with a clean socket is not wrong if you were to plug say a lamp into the limiter sockets, and use that as your warning, therefore keeping within the sound limits set.

Same with the battery speaker - I'm assuming some of your kit still switches off, such as your lights, so as long as that means your immediately bringing your volume down to be in line with the limits set by the limiter then I see no issue.

If you are using the battery equipment to blatantly ignore the limiter and produce a volume in excess of what is permitted (which of course is not what you would do), well that is where the issue occurs.

You beat me to it Gavin.
The setup I'm using for these occasions is a pair of Maui5 Go (battery powered), and a UPS to power the controller. The lights are direct into the mains so if the power goes I lose lighting.

It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off.

[Benny Smyth]

I can't get my head around the concept of DJs and Bands repeatedly setting off a sound limiter.

First time: OK, you pushed your luck and you were given a proverbial clip round the ear. We don't know how wide this pitch is until we get to the edge, and we do like playing along the lines.

Second time: Should have learned your lesson already, but could still be considered a mistake. Perhaps in the excitement of a good party, you stopped glancing at those traffic lights.

Third (or more) time: Now we have entered the realm of incompetence.

I've seen DJs suggest getting on the mic and telling guests that there is a limiter and that is why the music isn't being played as loud as we'd like, but I don't subscribe to that at all. I have found that speaking to the client about it is more than enough, because word will spread quickly. Long before anyone comes up to us, they're already talking amongst themselves about how they would like the music to be louder. The client will tell one guest, that guest will tell two others, and so on. Anyone who does come up will not ask in an accusatory way "Why don't you turn it up?", but will ask in a more sympathetic "Is this really the limit?" They come up hoping, but they already know the answer and are very understanding of it.

Limiters are not that difficult to work with once you accept that you are not going to win this fight. The same thing with installed sound systems. Last night, I had a wedding at a Tipi venue with a sound ceiling. Guests and clients knew long before I rocked up what the situation was with sound, and we did the best with what we had to play with. The only power I have is to not accept another gig there.

As I told the very unhappy sax player who tooted along to my tunes last night: "Just 'king get on with it!"

[ppentertainments]

Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

[Excalibur]

You beat me to it Gavin.
The setup I'm using for these occasions is a pair of Maui5 Go (battery powered), and a UPS to power the controller. The lights are direct into the mains so if the power goes I lose lighting.

It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off.

What he said. :agree:

( Except I don't need mains/UPS to keep the controller alive for a few minutes )

[DJ Jules]

I would normally agree that repeatedly tripping a limiter suggests a lack of attention, except I have experience of a couple that I've yet to really fathom out what a "safe" level is.

One of my regular venues that (helpfully) has 3 broken orange LEDs on the scale of 8 so I either know I'm well in the green or I'm hitting red and I get no warning in-between. That particular limiter also has the mic in some obscure part of the venue so it's actually not monitoring sound levels in the room, but sound levels outside the building, making it even harder to predict if I'm playing within the limits or not and it can be susceptible to tripping if there are people drunkenly shouting outside the venue.

At that venue I plug most of my kit into a different socket and one speaker into the limiter so I know when I'm tripping it (or something is tripping it), but it doesn't interrupt the night. I've provided Photobooths at the venue on multiple occasions and heard bands stop their set and re-route their power on almost as many occasions...

Julian

[Imagine]

I can't get my head around the concept of DJs and Bands repeatedly setting off a sound limiter.

Don't get me wrong - I work with these things on a regular basis and have NEVER had a problem. Yes, I'll use battery stuff where it's a little over-sensitive but I'm constantly monitoring those little lights of doom because let's face it....it's there for a reason and I'm not going to be the one getting sued for the venue losing their license.


I've seen DJs suggest getting on the mic and telling guests that there is a limiter and that is why the music isn't being played as loud as we'd like, but I don't subscribe to that at all. I have found that speaking to the client about it is more than enough, because word will spread quickly. Long before anyone comes up to us, they're already talking amongst themselves about how they would like the music to be louder. The client will tell one guest, that guest will tell two others, and so on. Anyone who does come up will not ask in an accusatory way "Why don't you turn it up?", but will ask in a more sympathetic "Is this really the limit?" They come up hoping, but they already know the answer and are very understanding of it.

I work in exactly the same way. I've spoken to both of the couples this is going to affect and explained the score. Next week's isn't too fussed, in fact in her own words "we're not really party people but felt we had to have something for the evening" so it's not going to be too much of a problem. The week after however is going to have one of those tooters dancing around on the dance floor and I suspect from reports I've had from folks that have already worked with this new limiter that she'll trip it with absolutely no help from me.


Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

Again - no problem whatsoever with limiters. I'm one of the good guys that plays by the rules. BUT, I'll be damned if I'm going to lose an expensive speaker or controller just because a guest decides to sing underneath the things.

The reason for using the battery stuff for the next two is that the limiter fitted is over sensitive. According to one of the jocks that's been in there recently (and he's the sort that plays by the rules), it's unworkable. If my lighting goes off, I'll know I've overcooked things and pull back accordingly.


What he said. :agree:

( Except I don't need mains/UPS to keep the controller alive for a few minutes )

If Denon still made said beast, I'd be buying one at the moment. It's a lot lighter than my UPS :daft:

[mattydj50]

When I worked at my previous venue, the sound limiter was situated half way down the length of the room. Never a problem for me as I soon got used to it and, as I only played at that venue it was easy to monitor. Occasionally when the guests were singing away, it was red for a worrying period, but I just cut my volume back.

Worse was that the limiter was also connected to BOTH sets of double fire doors, so if either of them were opened, darkness and silence ensued. Guests sneaking out for a crafty drag was a favourite or some boisterous behaviour resulting in the crash bar being pushed got my blood going too.

The organiser of one function, an after sales conference event for Phones4U decided she was going home at 11pm one night and decided to pick up her bags and laptop and waltz straight out of one door, arguing with the banqueting manager as she went, as he tried to explain what would happen.

Boof! Off it all went. Fortunately, Eddie had had enough of her that evening and refused to go and reset the power. I didn't object! The reset button was in the store room accessed at the back of the room so, even though I knew where it was and how to reset it, I usually played dumb! A member of staff came to do the necessary and to "remind" the culprit not to do it again. We did adopt a three strikes and you're out after one group decided it was fun to open the doors on multiple occasions. We went to reset it that night and, oh dear, it wouldn't reset as the trip had gone and an electrician was needed. Shame!

Bands and singers were another thing though. They seemed to have great difficulty, even after sound checks, to be able to control the level. I've known bands cut it off during their first song, then the second, third.

Many of them blame the venue, the crowd (singing too loud) the council, the police(?), indeed anyone but themselves. I was often asked how I managed to get the music loud enough without knocking it off. Easy, experience and using my ears.

The only times it bothered be was when someone decided that the room was set up turned at 90 degrees to the norm, so I was set up along the long wall facing the entrance doors. The dance floor was in front of me with tables either side. Unfortunately, that meant that the sound limiter was behind me, above my head. It also meant that my speakers were pointing away from the limiter. So, combine the two and we were OK.

The worst place at that venue was when they took over the restaurant for Christmas parties. 20 hotel bedrooms above. Complaints from guests who were not at the part7 wanting to sleep. You could barely hear the music in the bar sometmes!

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Thankfully we don't have many of those things and the ones that do have an inhouse system instead (rather those than ones that pull your power as yes it can impact your equipment).

I never really understood ones that have limits but allow bands as they're so much louder than DJs.

Most of us on here would do the sensible option and have the lighting plugged into the mains and use that to monitor the sound levels but having done photobooths and seen other DJs in the flesh it's not surprising a few ruin it for the rest of us smarter folk.

[Excalibur]

Having worked closely with local council regarding this I can safely say that it is DJs and Bands/Singers causing the problems that is resulting in more limiters AND lower limits. People aren't stupid and know when battery speakers are being used, or the system bypassed with a long lead - you only have to open your ears to realise lol

There is a LOT worse to come too, as now there are studies into staff working in environments with loud noise, and again it will be DJs and Bands who will ensure these are stricter than needed. The guy I have been dealing with says he wouldn't be surprised if within 3 years EVERY venue that allows music to be played will have a limiter of some description.

Basically like it or lump it, if you can't work with limiters perhaps it is time to look for a different career !

And anyone who can't see that noise issues are going to come to the fore in the future, and prepare for it, is a fool. Health and Safety at work would mean that at some gigs, the bar staff could only work for really short periods, unless wearing hearing protection.

I'm now envisaging a barman with industrial earmuffs on having a phone shoved in his face, and on the screen it says " Two pints of Lager, and a packet of crisps please". :Laugh:

[Imagine]

And anyone who can't see that noise issues are going to come to the fore in the future, and prepare for it, is a fool. Health and Safety at work would mean that at some gigs, the bar staff could only work for really short periods, unless wearing hearing protection.

I'm now envisaging a barman with industrial earmuffs on having a phone shoved in his face, and on the screen it says " Two pints of Lager, and a packet of crisps please". :Laugh:

And I'll wager it won't be spelled correctly and the screen will be cracked and unreadable :rofl:

[Zog]

https://www.bandsforhire.net/blog/sound-limiter-guide

"What Venues Need to Tell You Before You Book
If your venue has a sound limiter installed, then it is their responsibility to make you aware of this prior to signing any contract. You should be informed of the type of limiter installed at the venue, how it is monitored and what dB limit it is capped at.

Trained venue staff should be present on the day who know how the sound limiter works. They should be able to explain to the musicians how it works and be able to reset it if it were to trip the power on the day."

"If live music is an important aspect of your wedding or party, always speak to potential venues before making a booking as you may find it's only brought up in the small print of their contract. It’s very difficult for 100-150 guests to enjoy themselves if a limiter is set at 80dB (quieter than a hairdryer) and so you may decide to look into an alternative venue."



Zog.

[Zog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASqt-Okf3a8

Zog.

[Zog]

What he said. :agree:

( Except I don't need mains/UPS to keep the controller alive for a few minutes )

"It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off."

So, just how is that going to happen? Does the gear blow up if you switch it on and off, then on again.?

Z.

[Imagine]

"It's not to circumvent the limiting requirements and I always play by the book on that front. It's to stop potentially several thousand pounds of damage to equipment going on and off."

So, just how is that going to happen? Does the gear blow up if you switch it on and off, then on again.?

Z.

It can affect all sorts of things in modern kit, most of which is very sensitive to power outages/surges etc.

Most affected are the newer standalone controllers with built in hard drives. Powering down without correctly dismounting a hard drive (trust me on this one, I spent 25 years in IT) can and does corrupt them.

[rth_discos]

Bands and singers were another thing though. They seemed to have great difficulty, even after sound checks, to be able to control the level. I've known bands cut it off during their first song, then the second, third.


It's the drummer. They don't have the benefit of a volume control like us DJs do - plus it's harder to focus on watching a sound limiter when playing an instrument. And hard to know exactly who needs to back off a bit when playing as a band.

All good reasons to book a DJ rather than a band when in a venue with a sound limiter.

[Excalibur]

? Does the gear blow up if you switch it on and off, then on again.?

Z.
Yes. Next question please. Active cabs can dislike it intensely, there are many tales of them dying when disconnected and reconnected to 240v without using the mains switch, and dropping the gains.

And re venues telling clients there's a limiter which may easily ruin their evening: :fp::fp::fp: :zip:

It can affect all sorts of things in modern kit, most of which is very sensitive to power outages/surges etc.

Most affected are the newer standalone controllers with built in hard drives. Powering down without correctly dismounting a hard drive (trust me on this one, I spent 25 years in IT) can and does corrupt them.
The big problem with some of them. I used to have my Cortex set so it couldn't write to the drive, so couldn't ( theoretically ) corupt it.




All good reasons to book a DJ rather than a band when in a venue with a sound limiter.

Meeeeeow! ;););)

How many times have venues said to me, when asking me to use the limiter " you'll be alright, we've never had a DJ trip it, only bands"?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

So, just how is that going to happen? Does the gear blow up if you switch it on and off, then on again.?

Z.

Yes. Do it with your pc several times and see what happens.

[Zog]

It can affect all sorts of things in modern kit, most of which is very sensitive to power outages/surges etc.

Most affected are the newer standalone controllers with built in hard drives. Powering down without correctly dismounting a hard drive (trust me on this one, I spent 25 years in IT) can and does corrupt them.

There is no doubt that you are correct.

I am now going non-electric....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYn7aZZBMRA




Zog.

[Imagine]

Would it not be possible, just for once, to post a new topic or a reply to a topic that DOESN'T contain a video or link?
It's really not needed

[Marc J]

There is no doubt that you are correct.

I am now going non-electric....

Sorry Zog, but your posts are now adding even less to topics than when you were only posting seemingly random links and resurrecting old threads. Who knew that was even possible? :confused:

You have been placed in the "Sin Bin" as a temporary measure. While there, your posts have to be approved by a moderator before they are published. If they are deemed not to add anything constructive, they won't be approved.

[Corabar Steve]

If more venues installed these (AVC, the units with the green LED), it wouldn't be a problem.

https://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=19130&d=1693521032

[Zog]

Would it not be possible, just for once, to post a new topic or a reply to a topic that DOESN'T contain a video or link?
It's really not needed

Sometimes I do. But the images are interesting, informative and fun. A picture speaks a thousand words.

Zog.

[Excalibur]

If more venues installed these (AVC, the units with the green LED), it wouldn't be a problem.



Indeed, and those lovely Sound Ceilings, which we all love working with. :sj: One I had the pleasure of using had such a feature installed. The client asked if I could turn it up more, and I told yes, but the system was fighting back, and wouldn't let me have any increase. :(

( Older readers may note that I used Steve's smiley to reply to him. A nice touch I thought).

OK, our younger readers may not know that Steve is now " poacher turned gamekeeper ", as many of his venues will not let anyone play there without going through his box of tricks. He distinguished himself so much at one venue by simply following the rules that he is now the Special One.

Seriously, we are all going to have to get used to working with limiters/sound ceilings/noise meters and limits. I think I remember one limiter Rob worked with was a dear old lady in the corner, who was the final arbiter of suitable noise levels!

Anyone who comes up with the time honoured suggestion of " use a long extension lead to find a clean socket " is in fact cutting their own throat. Venues will either close, or ban DJs and bands.

[Zog]

Yes. Do it with your pc several times and see what happens.

If my P.C. suffers a mains power cut its internal battery powers it up seamlessly with no problems. Just like a U.P.S.

Zog.

[Zog]

Sorry Zog, but your posts are now adding even less to topics than when you were only posting seemingly random links and resurrecting old threads. Who knew that was even possible? :confused:

You have been placed in the "Sin Bin" as a temporary measure. While there, your posts have to be approved by a moderator before they are published. If they are deemed not to add anything constructive, they won't be approved.


Oh ek, up before the head eh? Book in trousers time I think.

Zog.

[cloudswiper]

This Saturday I'm playing a party at a hall venue. Expecting about 100 people.

When I did a site visit I decided I would need my DXR12s over 15" subs.

I have just been told the sound limiter is set at 90db.

Is that workable?

Should I down scale to a pair of Maui 5's?

Your thoughts appreciated.

[Imagine]

This Saturday I'm playing a party at a hall venue. Expecting about 100 people.

When I did a site visit I decided I would need my DXR12s over 15" subs.

I have just been told the sound limiter is set at 90db.

Is that workable?

Should I down scale to a pair of Maui 5's?

Your thoughts appreciated.

Depends on where the sound limiter is, what it's measuring (bass, treble, pins dropping) and the acoustics of the room when it comes to limiters.

Yes, it's workable. Just trim your output so that it doesn't trip the limiter (especially the bass frequencies). It might sound quiet - there's nothing you can do about that.

As for Maui5's - if you've got a pair of them they might just about cope depending on the size of the room but you'll probably be pushing them to their limits. That said, if they're the 5 Go's with the batteries then it sort of takes the worry away about the power going out ;)

[cloudswiper]

Excellent advice - thanks.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Take the larger PA system so you've got the headroom.

Just because you get told in advance that it's a 90db sound limit doesn't mean that's what it's set at, located or even if it's working.

If it's a venue you've worked at before then it's a bit different but in this case I'd just cover my bases.

[Excalibur]

This Saturday I'm playing a party at a hall venue. Expecting about 100 people.

When I did a site visit I decided I would need my DXR12s over 15" subs.

I have just been told the sound limiter is set at 90db.

Is that workable?

Should I down scale to a pair of Maui 5's?

Your thoughts appreciated.

OK, here's my two pennorth. I'd guess sub are out. I played at a venue with a limiter, and if I cut the bass, I could play very very loud with safety. I've worked at one where I could turn the music up, but the fast rising peaks of a microphone triggered it. Funnily enough, changing mics improved things. If you have space in your motor, I'd take Yams and Mauis, and have a play beforehand. The Mauis are supposed to cater for 100 bodies, and I have done that with ease in some venues, but struggled a bit in a huge barn.

What I'm going to repeat, is that ( even with venue authorisation ) running a cable into the kitchen is a big no. Venues are under scrutiny, and cranking up a six box rig to eleven just because you've found a clean socket is the fast track to closing the venue down. Those of us using battery cabs aren't trying to defeat noise limiters, simply ensuring continuity of service, and safety of kit. We play the hand we're dealt.

[cloudswiper]

Thanks all for your advice.

So here's how it went...

...actually I think I had better put this in the Supporters area.