To claim or not to claim, that is the question.

[Spirits High]

I've got an issue at the moment with a non paying client. They had originally booked the dj service for March this year, signed the booking form and paid the NRBF back in June of last year.

When I tried to contact them 4 weeks before the Wedding to book in the pre wedding meeting I had no replies to emails, voicemail messages etc and really struggled to get hold of them. The venue they 'were' due to get married at is one of my regulars so I called them and checked out if they were having problems to be told "they cancelled in January!"

I have since gone down the road of sending final invoices, overdue invoices, emailing and more voicemails but still no contact. I've used the company debt guard in the past and had good results so tried them again. They duly sent the solicitors letter stating further action will be carried out if this isn't paid etc etc. The dated period on that have now elapsed and I need to decide if I'm going to take court action or not.

Cost involved are outstanding invoice £300, cost to got to court on this are £109 of which £70 can be added to the debtors bill. The original letter cost £2 so not really a big issue but as there's been no contact at all I'm thinking they'll just ignore the court paperwork too. This could mean that I'll get a judgement in my favour but no actual money back.


Over to you!

[rth_discos]

So no service was actually carried out, as the wedding was cancelled.

If you do take them to court, and they start posting negatively about you on social media/review sites, how will you feel? Will it have been worth it?

Sadly, I feel it may be best to walk away.

You've had the deposit - it may be hard to justify why you are due further money when no service was actually performed, despite what your terms and conditions state. In fact, depending on your terms and conditions, the couple may be due their deposit back if your terms aren't worded correctly.

Not the answer you were looking for, but I'd recommend walking away sadly.

[Spirits High]

So no service was actually carried out, as the wedding was cancelled.

If you do take them to court, and they start posting negatively about you on social media/review sites, how will you feel? Will it have been worth it?

Unfortunately nowadays that is an issue



You've had the deposit - it may be hard to justify why you are due further money when no service was actually performed, despite what your terms and conditions state. In fact, depending on your terms and conditions, the couple may be due their deposit back if your terms aren't worded correctly.


It's a Non refundable booking fee that was paid and the T&C's are good as I've taken a previous client (higher amount) to court with the same ones and won my case.

The annoying thing is the complete lack of contact, manners cost nothing but unfortunately this looks like it's going to be written off.

[rth_discos]

It's a Non refundable booking fee that was paid and the T&C's are good as I've taken a previous client (higher amount) to court with the same ones and won my case.

I've always thought that was the case, but recently it's been highlighted that without a cooling off period stated in your terms and conditions, you may find it hard to enforce the "non-refundable", as the cooling off period then defaults to 1 year and 14 days.

Source: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/changed-your-mind/changing-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/




The annoying thing is the complete lack of contact, manners cost nothing but unfortunately this looks like it's going to be written off.

Absolutely - I totally feel for you on this one. Of course, it's wrong that you've been screwed over - mainly because you've been unable to rebook that date, so you are at a loss.

But with social media, things aren't really on our side these days. We just have to hope we don't get too many of these clients, and when they do appear, sadly, have to bow to their requirements to save a greater headache/waste of time/bad reviews.

[Spirits High]

I've always thought that was the case, but recently it's been highlighted that without a cooling off period stated in your terms and conditions, you may find it hard to enforce the "non-refundable", as the cooling off period then defaults to 1 year and 14 days.

Source: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/changed-your-mind/changing-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/



Got that one covered by this:

"PLEASE NOTE: This contract is not subject to a 'cooling-off period' by virtue of s28(1)(h) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and therefore in the event of cancellation of the engagement by the Client, a cancellation fee will be made on the following basis:"

I was advised to put this in by someone who has great experience in the "law" game.

[rth_discos]

Got that one covered by this:

"PLEASE NOTE: This contract is not subject to a 'cooling-off period' by virtue of s28(1)(h) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and therefore in the event of cancellation of the engagement by the Client, a cancellation fee will be made on the following basis:"

I was advised to put this in by someone who has great experience in the "law" game.

Perfect - many don't have this! You've been well advised :)

[Imagine]

Got that one covered by this:

"PLEASE NOTE: This contract is not subject to a 'cooling-off period' by virtue of s28(1)(h) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and therefore in the event of cancellation of the engagement by the Client, a cancellation fee will be made on the following basis:"

I was advised to put this in by someone who has great experience in the "law" game.

Tee-hee

I've got this one in my contract as well :)

As to the original post - I'm with Gavin in that I think I'd probably walk away.
In this day and age of easily being able to escalate things on Social Media and the like - is your business reputation really worth the hassle.

I had a similar one in the past. Took it as far as judgement (by default because they never responded to anything), but didn't go any further because it just wasn't going to get anything back.

[musicology]

I too would move on. At the end of the day, there are very few cancellations and we should all expect to have to bite the bullet on those rare occasions. I know I have. Some are very apologetic and pay up without argument. The tiny percentage who bugger off without a by-your-leave are best forgotten. You can only do so much to protect yourself (frustrating though it is!) and, as already said, you could end up doing more harm than good.

[yourdj]

The annoying thing is the complete lack of contact, manners cost nothing

This is what annoys me most about spineless people, that don't have the courtesy to inform you as like a lot of the public are scared of their own shadow. That combined with the emotional distress of dealing with a wedding cancellation (especially if someone has died, they have split up), that makes them bury it.

Can you comfortably afford to live with it cancelled and can you not use a no win no fee agency to get the money? I would personally not let the threat of them complaining sway the judgement, but in most situations just let it go and keep the booking fee, unless they have been a real problem. I get quite a few cancellations with my residency and often its a welcome break for me to have a Saturday night off for once as I generally always have a busier year than I am expecting. :)

I had one personal book gin that never got back to me and avoided contact and i just felt sorry for them that they have not got the balls to confront the situation and act like an adult. To be fair they were quite chavvy, the venue was not expensive and i questioned it when they booked as it was an unusual one. Cost them £250 in BF, If they have said they can't afford it then if it was a good week they may have even got the BF back, especially if I took another job. :muppet::muppet::muppet:

[Shaun]

I'm REALLY stubborn. I would take this as far as possible out of principle, regardless of the potential of them slating me. I'd sue them for that too if it were unjust. Otherwise, what is the point of having a contract.


P.s.> good clause. May I borrow it? :)
"PLEASE NOTE: This contract is not subject to a 'cooling-off period' by virtue of s28(1)(h) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and therefore in the event of cancellation of the engagement by the Client, a cancellation fee will be made on the following basis:"

[DJ Jules]

Did you get another booking to fill the date? There's a lot going on at the moment with wedding suppliers being scrutinised for unfair booking fees and cancellation charges - if you filled the date and didn't actually lose out then a court would be likely to view your actions as unfair or unreasonable.

More info on the current situation here : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedding-venues-advised-to-play-fair

Julian

[yourdj]

I'm REALLY stubborn

That must be the Scotsman in you. http://www.freesmileyfaces.com/files/misc/world-smiley-faces/9.gif

I personally can't be bothered with the palaver and negative energy associated with it, but to a lot of people that may be viewed as bad business, but I don't care. Depends on the situation i guess. :)

[DazzyD]

Got that one covered by this:

"PLEASE NOTE: This contract is not subject to a 'cooling-off period' by virtue of s28(1)(h) of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 and therefore in the event of cancellation of the engagement by the Client, a cancellation fee will be made on the following basis:"

I was advised to put this in by someone who has great experience in the "law" game.

If I was you, I'd have this paragraph checked out currently as new consumer rights were afforded to Joe Public when the Consumer Rights Act 2015 came in to effect on 1st October 2015. This was something I'd followed closely after I'd learned about similar legislation in the US prior to this. A top US contracts lawyer basically said that suppliers and service providers were not right to be charging for services and/or products that they hadn't provided (ie "in the event of cancellation within 8 weeks prior to the event date, the full balance will become payable" - not allowed anymore!). And merely including a waiver in the contract is wrong, too, as you can't ask someone to waive away their statutory rights! The Consumer Rights Act 2015 included provision for this to stop people having to pay for stuff they haven't received, or rather, to stop unscrupulous businesses from cashing in! I'm not saying that your contract is wrong or not "fair" just that I would advise for it to be checked against current and updated legislation.


That must be the Scotsman in you. http://www.freesmileyfaces.com/files/misc/world-smiley-faces/9.gif

...

Racist!! :eek:

[rth_discos]

A top US contracts lawyer basically said that suppliers and service providers were not right to be charging for services and/or products that they hadn't provided (ie "in the event of cancellation within 8 weeks prior to the event date, the full balance will become payable" - not allowed anymore!). And merely including a waiver in the contract is wrong, too, as you can't ask someone to waive away their statutory rights! The Consumer Rights Act 2015 included provision for this to stop people having to pay for stuff they haven't received, or rather, to stop unscrupulous businesses from cashing in!

Yes, that's true.

So it's OK to have a non-refundable deposit - but as mentioned above, there needs to be a statement in the contract about the cooling off period (or that it doesn't apply), otherwise a 1 year and 14 day default cooling off period applies.

With regards to charging the full amount if your services are cancelled close to the date, you're also correct that you'll find it very hard to charge the client the full rate. You cannot charge them for "lost profits", only to cover "costs incurred". Equally, you can't retain the full amount if they have already paid.

As you mention, this has all changed recently, and is getting some press now, so customers will become more aware of this.

[Benny Smyth]

I'm REALLY stubborn. I would take this as far as possible out of principle, regardless of the potential of them slating me. I'd sue them for that too if it were unjust. Otherwise, what is the point of having a contract.

I'm with Shaun.

Not in a 'Don't ask, don't tell' kinda way, but more in a 'I agree with him' kinda way.

[ppentertainments]

I personally can't be bothered with the palaver and negative energy associated with it, but to a lot of people that may be viewed as bad business, but I don't care. Depends on the situation i guess. :)

Although I agree with Shaun, I do the same as Toby (did I really write that ?? ;););) )

For the amount in question I couldn't really be bothered giving up the time, risking the negativity etc etc. Business head on, yes I am wrong, but .....

[ukpartydj]

I'd probably go quite far with it. Chances are they had wedding insurance so if anything happened to family etc they aren't actually paying the insurance company is.

If they've split up or whatever that's not my problem I'm not a charity. If they didn't get insurance they probably didn't book a hotel or marquee wedding as most require it I believe.

I get very iratated if people don't respect me though and have wasted too much time legally fighting those who've decided to treat me unfairly. Giving up because it's too much hassle is what these types thrive on.

[Excalibur]

The last two posts dismay me, a lot.,
Here we are, signing contracts guaranteeing that we'll provide everything agreed upon initially, and yet it seems that when customers realise their wedding with all available bells and whistles is at least twenty grand over budget, they can just walk away from it all, leaving us poor buggers hung out to dry, with perhaps a ten per cent booking fee for our troubles, and no chance of any more.

Please explain how I'm being unfair to the customer who has just cost me hundreds of pounds? :daft:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I'd chalk it up to experience, take the missus out on the night of the gig and spend the booking fee - as a lot of people have said - there's not much good going to come from all of the negative energy associated with that.

It doesn't take a lot for a bride (and her pals, colleagues and their pals and their families and their aunts cats cousin) to really do you a number on social media: "So yeah my pals fiancé cheated on her and she broke off the wedding - now months later this "DJ" is harassing her with threatening letters asking for money when he didn't even do the gig!!!".... not a great look.

A few weeks back I sent out an e-mail to site visit a client who had booked me for an all day party - her husbands surprise 40th - on their sizeable estate in the middle of nowhere. I asked if, as discussed during the booking, we could tie in a time for me to visit when he's away just so I know what the place is like. I got a one line response: Sorry Jim, we've cancelled the party because my father in law died.

Now that might be total rubbish, they didn't mention when this happened and certainly wouldn't have let me know at that point if I hadn't e-mailed. I'm also technically due a four figure sum from them as per my t's and c's cancellation policy.

I sent her an e-mail expressing my sympathy and letting her know that if they wish to reschedule or book another event within 12 months of the original booking date - I'll put their booking fee towards it.

OK they've cost me money, I may have missed out on other gigs and it was a bit poor of them not to let me know earlier that they were cancelling but I'm a great believer in karma - if they're at it, I've still got a couple of hundred quid on the hip and if they are genuine then I've not burned any bridges.

[rth_discos]

I'm also technically due a four figure sum from them as per my t's and c's cancellation policy.

Just because it's in your Ts and Cs doesn't mean it's enforceable - in fact - you'd struggle to get a court to agree that you are owed four figures when the party has been cancelled and you haven't performed.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Just because it's in your Ts and Cs doesn't mean it's enforceable - in fact - you'd struggle to get a court to agree that you are owed four figures when the party has been cancelled and you haven't performed.

Which is why I said technically :)

End of the day I could have been out earning that money somewhere else if I wasn't already booked by this client - would be interesting to see how it panned out if anyone ever did claim - you certainly hear of employees being handed out compo based on lost and potential future earnings...

[rth_discos]

End of the day I could have been out earning that money somewhere else if I wasn't already booked by this client

Agreed... personally I don't think the rules are that fair.

If you book a "one off" service like us, ie we can only do one event a day, then we should be entitled to a good percentage of the final fee, especially when turning away other bookings.

We could probably do with a decent "mobile dj" set of terms and conditions that are drawn up and shared between a number of DJs (as long as they are all able to agree on the contents), so that we're protected as best as possible - as is the client.

From what I've seen, most Ts and Cs being sent out aren't worth the paper their on. But Ts and Cs along with a deposit tend to deter most of the "opportunists" away. Hence why I tend to believe most cancellations when they've already paid a deposit.

[ukpartydj]

It doesn't take a lot for a bride (and her pals, colleagues and their pals and their families and their aunts cats cousin) to really do you a number on social media: "So yeah my pals fiancé cheated on her and she broke off the wedding - now months later this "DJ" is harassing her with threatening letters asking for money when he didn't even do the gig!!!".... not a great look.

I think we're a bit more paranoid about the social media threat than we need to be. If somebody writes:

"DJ didn't have our first dance and forgot to bring our playlist" or "The DJ wasn't very friendly and didn't like taking requests" then sure that'll scare potential clients away.

If it's along the lines of "we called off the wedding and he still wanted to be paid" you can easily reply with "Sorry, you did agree if you cancelled that you'd have to pay" and if they say "Rubbish DJ, rude, drunk, couldn't tell the difference between decks and cows backside" you can reply "I have no idea who you are, you've never booked my services".

Any sensible person will overlook those in my opinion.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I think we're a bit more paranoid about the social media threat than we need to be. If somebody writes:

"DJ didn't have our first dance and forgot to bring our playlist" or "The DJ wasn't very friendly and didn't like taking requests" then sure that'll scare potential clients away.

If it's along the lines of "we called off the wedding and he still wanted to be paid" you can easily reply with "Sorry, you did agree if you cancelled that you'd have to pay" and if they say "Rubbish DJ, rude, drunk, couldn't tell the difference between decks and cows backside" you can reply "I have no idea who you are, you've never booked my services".

Any sensible person will overlook those in my opinion.

Thats assuming you're privvy to the communication. You could be slaughtered and never know any better.