Saxophonists

[ppentertainments]

I am sure I posted about this before, but can't find it so started a new thread.

Last year I worked with a couple of sax players and their popularity seems to be increasing as have quite a number this year. I must admit they are great, however maybe not always popular as I find they play too early in the evening.

My gripe is that every one expects to just plug into my system. Now, when I work with musicians who I know and work regularly with I have no problem with this, however am unsure what damage a sax could potentially cause.

Added to this, there is the extra responsibility. Although unlikely, who would be to blame if for some reason the mic channel etc didn't work ?

Realistically I think this is something we should be charging for, and even taking a deposit as you would when hiring pa - however my attempt at this has backfired with quite an irate bride wondering why she should have to pay when everything is already there - can kind of see her point if honest.

I had thought about claiming to not have the facility, but people aren't daft and it is hard to say yes to some and no to others when working in the same venues regularly.

Currently I am looking at drafting some form of agreement out for the sax players to sign to negate any blame and make them aware of replacement costs should any equipment be damaged.

It just annoys me how people rock up, use my pa then disappear without even as much as a thank you most of the time. Also I am multi op and some of my DJs aren't keen on allowing this which will mean I have to drop speakers off for them which is all added work (and expense) for nothing.

What are your thoughts ? Should we just say 'yes, no problem', charge for the service or say 'no', or anything else ?

[Benny Smyth]

Maybe add it to the booking agreement that unless there is prior agreement, no other supplier can use your sound system. Then add to your 'You break it, you pay it' clause that this also includes other suppliers, making the client liable of their chosen suppliers.

[ppentertainments]

Maybe add it to the booking agreement that unless there is prior agreement, no other supplier can use your sound system. Then add to your 'You break it, you pay it' clause that this also includes other suppliers, making the client liable of their chosen suppliers.
That is a good thought, although my current T&C states that nobody is allowed to use my PA - but just gets ignored obviously :mad::mad:

[Excalibur]

Those folk using LD Maui Mix/G2 systems above a 5 are in a fortunate position. Since these systems are designed for live acts more than DJs, it's a piece of cake to simply stand the live Artiste next to one stick, and let him/her plug in to their heart's content. Whether other stick rigs have this facility, I don't know. :confused:

Due to some :muppet: at LD missing off the link socket on the 5, you can only let them have one stick, unless you get involved in some messy wiring. Interestingly enough, the 5 Go has this socket. :daft:

OK, to actually answer the question: If and when I get a pair of Maui 11s, then no problem. That's the whole point of having them. If I'm using the standard boxes, then we're in a whole different ballgame. One microphone channel isn't too difficult, but more than that and we're likely to need an additional mixer. It may be as simple and compact as this little fella (http://cpc.farnell.com/citronic/q-mix3/q-mix3-compact-dj-mixer/dp/DP34241), or the full size FOH jobby, which doesn't usually travel without prior warning.

Prior warning and post gig thanks are welcome, but the lack of either, and a presumption of a right to use the PA don't sit well with any of us, I'm sure.

I'm just waiting for young Shaun to pop up and remind us that " he brings enough equipment to ensure he can do his job, but not anyone else's ". ;) I genuinely think the tide is turning somewhat, and while years ago it would not have been worthy of a second thought, I believe all performers/providers ( DJs included ) are becoming more insular. It could have a lot to do with this blame culture, I think, which is sad but understandable.

Don't forget that your PLI won't cover other artistes pulling down your PA stack onto the guests, only yourselves.

[mbp]

I don't let anyone use our system....

If they are being paid to do a job, then they use their own equipment as far as i'm concerned.

rant over

[Excalibur]

I don't let anyone use our system....

If they are being paid to do a job, then they use their own equipment as far as i'm concerned.

rant over

Fair enough. But what if it's a friend/relative/other unpaid performer?

[mbp]

If it's a 'true' performer then they should have their own equipment.
No one should assume that they can use your equipment (without prior consent anyway)

[Benny Smyth]

If it's a 'true' performer then they should have their own equipment.
No one should assume that they can use your equipment (without prior consent anyway)

"Hi, Madam client? You've got a disco, yeah? Do you know if I can use their system?"

"I'm sure it'll be fine."

I'm willing to put money on this conversation happening regularly.

[mbp]

its the ones that turn up, without you knowing, that are the issue.....assuming they can use your equipment.

[Excalibur]

If it's a 'true' performer then they should have their own equipment.
No one should assume that they can use your equipment (without prior consent anyway)
Enthusiastic amateur? Twelve year old sister of the bride with a special song? Great Aunt Gladys who used to sing with Joe Loss?


"Hi, Madam client? You've got a disco, yeah? Do you know if I can use their system?"

"I'm sure it'll be fine."

I'm willing to put money on this conversation happening regularly.

Somehow Benny, I don't expect anyone to give long odds on that. ;):)
We're soon going to end up with the old favourites ignorance and education. Clients being ignorant of what Mobile DJs routinely offer ( even though it was clearly stated in the contract they signed ), and us DJs trying to educate them to ASK QUESTIONS!!!

Very few hurdles are impossible to clear with a clear run up. ( ie, advance warning ). Those of us who can routinely do it from a standing start are a dying breed, apparently. :(

“To expect the unexpected shows a thoroughly modern intellect.” – Oscar Wilde

[rth_discos]

I do whatever is required to make the evening a success.

If that means plugging in to my system, then go for it.

I charge a fee that means I'm happy to do anything (within reason).

We've all purchased professional equipment, so I think the fear of 'damaging the equipment' is a very remote risk. If it's a concern, then have a proper limiter in place before the speakers.

I'd much rather run a singer through my system than have a second system (theirs) set up alongside it, that they then start taking down as soon as they're finished.

[yourdj]

I don't let anyone use our system....

If they are being paid to do a job, then they use their own equipment as far as i'm concerned.

rant over

Exactly.

I would never use anyone else sound system especially if I was a musician and have no idea what the DJ has. I think its lazy and unprofessional. I feel like saying 'are they giving you a discount for not bringing/setting up PA? If not then my charge is, payable from the artist'. Lets face it they all have PA systems at home and if not then hire a professional PA person to deal with the sound, especially with bands. :)

Having said that, depending on the client and artist I would let people plug into my system, especially if its a family friend doing it for free, or a singing waiter etc. I tend to draw the line when, drums and louder bands etc are involved, but for a 2-3 piece semi acoustic then fine. I would more than happily set up a second system with a mixer and charge them for it (although they would have to wire/mic it all up). :)

[Daryll]

Any one can plug in to my pa.............

I presume they have a Russian 17 pin organic molecular plug ( new type only), and thorium plated cable , cause thats all I use.............:Laugh:

[Imagine]

I do whatever is required to make the evening a success.

If that means plugging in to my system, then go for it.

I charge a fee that means I'm happy to do anything (within reason).

We've all purchased professional equipment, so I think the fear of 'damaging the equipment' is a very remote risk. If it's a concern, then have a proper limiter in place before the speakers.

I'd much rather run a singer through my system than have a second system (theirs) set up alongside it, that they then start taking down as soon as they're finished.

:agree: (within reason and each case is different).
For instance, I wouldn't allow a band to plug in....I'm not set up for that sort of thing.

However, I have a gig in a couple of week's time where a Blues Brother's tribute will be making a surprise appearance (it's going to be a good 'un!).

I've been liaising with said tribute for a couple of weeks now and have actually OFFERED to let them plug into my desk for an output to the PA for free. He was going to bring along tops, subs and everything but there isn't the space in the venue for it all to be set up, and with two sets of gear on-show...it'd sort of give the game away that something else was going to happen.

At the end of the day, it's nothing more than a couple of mics and a CD player going through his own desk and then into the back of my mixer for the final levels and it's going to make things run a lot smoother on the night and give the B&G a brilliant evening....and that's what I always set out to achieve.

[Nakatomi]

I regularly allow others to 'plug in' to my PA but make sure I'm the one doing the plugging in & level setting. I don't leave anybody to it either & always monitor the proceedings. a 2 piece acoustic with one singer is no problem but any more than that they need at least their own mixer.

A few weeks ago I had a phone call from a bride getting married later in the year to ask if it'd be okay to have a singer go through my system. I can't say here who it is because I swore to secrecy & it's a big surprise for her partner. We've concocted a plan for the reveal & it's looking like it's going to go off the charts epic. It might also have potential to go a bit viral.

When it's a family friend or whatever the results can be mediocre at times but any inaction or reticence on my part would look too much like obstinacy & that really isn't what I'm about. There was a wedding last year where the bride's mother sang & her guitar accompanist insisted on her going through his tiny (tinny) little amp. It would've been bad enough the act made everybody (B&G included) cringe but it sounded awful on top of that.

Playing alongside bands, some have been very generous & let me go through their systems. I don't resist when it's offered - it saves a lot of duplicated gear & space is usually at a premium anyway. Plus it gives me an opportunity to listen to different rigs with music I'm familiar with :) It's been a while since I've met a band who were both awful & nasty - I can cope with anything as long as they're not confrontational throughout the proceedings. Bands, DJs.. they're all as much to blame. Why can't we all just get along? :cry:

Back to the sax players though - more often than not they'll be using radio mics which aren't difficult to deal with but there's also the fact they often bring their own music to play along with. Can you just shove this unvetted USB stick into your playout & go? :O Yeah but I'm gonna scan it in my backup laptop first! :D

I firmly believe that as a DJ of any flavour you should have the tech skills to be able to cope with just about anything a night can throw at you & be equipped to cope. I've employed walkin DJs who seemed savvy before the gig end up asking me how they plug a laptop or a mic into a mixer. They didn't get asked back - but how can anybody not know that & call themselves a DJ?!?!?!?! BTW they were actually pretty good as performing DJs they just had no clue with any tech :( Those guys were supposedly mobile DJs in their own right too. Just bonkers.

[Excalibur]

I do whatever is required to make the evening a success.

If that means plugging in to my system, then go for it.

I charge a fee that means I'm happy to do anything (within reason).

We've all purchased professional equipment, so I think the fear of 'damaging the equipment' is a very remote risk. If it's a concern, then have a proper limiter in place before the speakers.

I'd much rather run a singer through my system than have a second system (theirs) set up alongside it, that they then start taking down as soon as they're finished.
Give that man a coconut! :youdaman: :clap::bowdown::agree:




At the end of the day, it's nothing more than a couple of mics and a CD player going through his own desk and then into the back of my mixer for the final levels and it's going to make things run a lot smoother on the night and give the B&G a brilliant evening....and that's what I always set out to achieve.
Correctamundo. :approve:
In many ways, the ideal solution. Live act uses their own mixer, and you keep it all green at your end off a pair of phono cables. Simples. :)




I firmly believe that as a DJ of any flavour you should have the tech skills to be able to cope with just about anything a night can throw at you & be equipped to cope.
Ah yes, but nowadays there aren't the apprenticeship schemes we had to go through when I was young. Why most of the time, we even had to build our own gear, and we certainly had to know how to repair it on the hoof. :)



Bands, DJs.. they're all as much to blame. Why can't we all just get along? :cry:
:Kiss 3::heart1::beerchug::grouphug:
Peace and love, Brother, peace and love. :)

[Pe7e]

We've all purchased professional equipment, so I think the fear of 'damaging the equipment' is a very remote risk. If it's a concern, then have a proper limiter in place before the speakers.


Not as remote a risk as you may think, I've got 3 amp modules currently awaiting repair, people don't always respect your equipment

[rth_discos]

Not as remote a risk as you may think, I've got 3 amp modules currently awaiting repair, people don't always respect your equipment

How did that occur?

As Peter says, I'll be the one in charge, looking after levels etc if anyone plugs in to my system.

[Nakatomi]

How did that occur?

As Peter says, I'll be the one in charge, looking after levels etc if anyone plugs in to my system.

Plugging a powered mixer's speaker outputs into the inputs of an active speaker would be a good way. After that, high voltages on instrument or mixer cabling could do it.. Those & just general abuse through negligence or lack of knowledge.

[mattydj50]

:agree: (within reason and each case is different).
For instance, I wouldn't allow a band to plug in....I'm not set up for that sort of thing.

However, I have a gig in a couple of week's time where a Blues Brother's tribute will be making a surprise appearance (it's going to be a good 'un!).

I've been liaising with said tribute for a couple of weeks now and have actually OFFERED to let them plug into my desk for an output to the PA for free. He was going to bring along tops, subs and everything but there isn't the space in the venue for it all to be set up, and with two sets of gear on-show...it'd sort of give the game away that something else was going to happen.

At the end of the day, it's nothing more than a couple of mics and a CD player going through his own desk and then into the back of my mixer for the final levels and it's going to make things run a lot smoother on the night and give the B&G a brilliant evening....and that's what I always set out to achieve.

That's the difference isn't it. Its all about dialogue and agreeing to what can be done. I don't mind a friend/family singer of comic or compere using my 2nd mic, but I object to paid acts coming along, seeing me there and assuming they can simply use my PA. One singer even asked me if I had any backing tracks with me.

I don't like gear being attached to mine though for the fear of damage, physical or acoustic, plus the risk of detaching the wrong cable when they are packing away.

[Nakatomi]

That's the difference isn't it. Its all about dialogue and agreeing to what can be done. I don't mind a friend/family singer of comic or compere using my 2nd mic, but I object to paid acts coming along, seeing me there and assuming they can simply use my PA. One singer even asked me if I had any backing tracks with me.

I don't like gear being attached to mine though for the fear of damage, physical or acoustic, plus the risk of detaching the wrong cable when they are packing away.

If I'm the one in charge of plugging in I'm sure as hell gonna be in charge of unplugging them too.

[Steven]

Working with Joe Reeve in a few weeks for a gig in Sunderland. I will be in touch with him soon to discuss things. i actually thought they wouldn't need to plug in unless they were playing alongside in a large venue or a loud venue (nightclub etc)

happy for him to plug in if i know about it in advance