Which controllers are currently recommended?

[stormproductions]

OK, so some of you may know that I mostly do lighting, but I still DJ 15-20 times a year. Very much mainstream party pop, mainly just one track after another with nothing fancy at all. Still using a mixture of CDs and digital using some slightly ropey Denon kit which I'm not very fond of.

For info I'm mostly still using an old coffin flightcase with 2 x DN-S5000 CD players and a DN-X1500 mixer, with a separate flightcase with an MC6000 and laptop running Traktor LE that I link in to one of the channels on the DN-X1500. Bonkers way of doing it but I've not got around to rearranging and just running through the MC6000. All of this kit was bought secondhand without much research and it's big, heavy, old, overly complex, unreliable etc!

Ideally I'd swap to just digital, but the way I DJ means I still find the CDs very useful. I'm considering changing my playout system for something smaller, lighter, simpler and more reliable than I've already got. I really know very little about this kind of stuff and to be honest it doesn't really interest me at all! Of course I want to spend as little as possible but realistically I'm prepared to spend a fair amount if it gets me what I need. Decent brands only, I still want this to function prefectly in 10 years time and to have good sound quality etc. Happy to consider secondhand kit if it's genuinely in good nick. Oh, and I'd happily change away from Traktor LE but know nothing at all about the software side of things.

Now I know people will suggest all sorts of bits of kit, could you please keep it relatively simple and on thread, assume I know nothing but I have got a brain! It might be best to ask me for more info before suggesting kit, I don't know. Don't really know what it's likely to cost me but for the right bit(s) of kit I'd consider going up to £1000 or so if neccessary.

Thanks in advance!

[ppentertainments]

You already have the best controller (in my opinion) - the Denon MC6000.

Not perfect by a long way, but for general parties the best out of a bad bunch and the size is beneficial too.

[Nakatomi]

You already have the best controller (in my opinion) - the Denon MC6000.

Not perfect by a long way, but for general parties the best out of a bad bunch and the size is beneficial too.

I second that! I now own two mc6000 mk1 models & I couldn't be more happy with them. I'm tempted to upgrade to the mc7000 or mcx8000 because I fancy something a little less cluttered but the 6000 is great for its standard 6u 19" footprint. It sounds great too, is versatile & very very robust.

[rth_discos]

You already have the best controller (in my opinion) - the Denon MC6000.


Yup, for typical mobile work, I can't think of anything better (apart from the MKII lol).

[stormproductions]

I know where you're coming from and thanks guys, but the first MC6000 I'd bought secondhand is in bits on my bench waiting for me to get round to fixing it as something weird went on with the crossfader after it had a tipple of wine during a lively gig, and the replacement I again bought secondhand to cover me for the next job is very tired and has got at least one major button that's dodgy. And I've just looked at a picture of one and counted - I think there are around 72 buttons or knobs on the front panel alone that I simply don't need so it's total overkill for me.

Ideally I'd be looking at a combined unit with integrated CD players but only if I could guarantee the reliability.

Essentially I need some form of kit that I can connect a laptop into (I might be willing to change software but preferably don't go expecting me to change from Windows!), and also use CDs as a source, with some form of auxilliary inputs too for other random music sources such as phones, musicians etc. I need to be able to cue and play tracks, adjust the speed and mix between them, with a mic input and some form of reasonable EQing on at least the master. Occasionally I'll play with an effect on the DN-X1500 but that's really not critical.

Thinking about it I might still have an old DN-D4000 twin CD unit knocking around somewhere that I guess I could put back into use... Not particularly serious about that one though! [Also think I've possibly still got our original DN-2000F twin CD unit that we bought when they first came out too!]

[yourdj]

Ditch the CD's join us in this century :beer1: I have lost count of the guys procrastinating over CD's, doing half and half and when they eventually go for it, they wonder why they had not done it a decade ago! My main DJ martin too 6 flippin years to move over to digital. Took him that long to work out what he wanted. He is an elephant.

The MC 4000 is an amazing controller to start on. No channels for your CD decks, but eBay them and buy that instead would be my advice. One of the best DJ purchases I have ever made:

18610

[Excalibur]

How about an all in one? Mixdeck express. (https://www.numark.com/product/mixdeckexpress2016)

[stormproductions]

I was part way through typing this when Excalibur replied, so not sure if it's fully edited...

OK Toby, I know that using CDs is even more retro than my hairstyle, and thanks for indirectly saying I'm a dinosaur :), but without going into too much depth CDs still have some advantages for me and I'm going to need to continue using them for now.

Excalibur - thanks for that, vaguely the sort of thing I could be interested in although I see they do a quad version which would be preferable for me, but are Numark any good nowadays?

So far otherwise you've all recommended I stick with the Denon, interesting. Does anyone know anything about (even if they've not used any of them) any other integrated all-in-one units? Pioneer appear to have a vast range of controllers of different types including at least 1 all-in-one but all the model numbers are extremely similar so I'm getting properly confused between the different ones.

Or would I be better off using separate CD players of some sort into a mixer/controller?

[yourdj]

OK Toby, I know that using CDs is even more retro than my hairstyle, and thanks for indirectly saying I'm a dinosaur :), but without going into too much depth CDs still have some advantages for me and I'm going to need to continue using them for now.


Yes it was very tongue and cheek. If you know your collection in and out then great, also the quality is better. :p

Pioneer do some amazing dual controllers, so much easier having it all in one unit. Rekordbox is also very popular now. Pioneer have done their usual trick of sitting back watching other people make the mistakes and then copy all the good bits.

18611


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSVVXPGoN5M

[stormproductions]

Thanks Toby,

I'd discovered that Pioneer XDJ R1 not long before you posted it yesterday - and after a bit more investigation it looks like it could be a good answer for me although the internet says some people had reliability issues in the early days. It doesn't look like there were many combined CD/digital controllers launched, even when more people were still using CDs.

So far it looks like if I want an all-in-one unit it's this Pioneer or the Numark that Excalibur mentioned (or a cheap Gemini unit which I wouldn't even consider). Otherwise, then it's either stick with the Denon MC6000 plus separate CD units or similar. Is there anyone else who still uses CDs with digital? If so, what are you using?

[Nakatomi]

I don't know why anyone would still use music on CD today. I find my laptop eminently reliable - certainly more reliable than CD ever was. In over 3 years I've lost maybe a minute of sound in total. That's literally hundreds of gigs & only once had an inexplicable pause in a first dance of about a second - barely enough time to even fade the backup in.

My last experience of djing with cd was with a couple of pioneer cdjs. One stopped working meaning I had to alternate between vinyl & cd, then as I started to run out of vinyl I hadn't yet played a Numark dual CD unit was brought in. Problem with that was it steamed up & couldn't be used anyway. Utterly embarrassing. And this was in a club where the rigours of player life are notably easier than the life of a player on the road.

The risks of being entirely digital are great but you can reduce them substantially with backups. The benefits of laptop & controller DJing vastly outweigh those risks. Virtual folders, crates, search & sorting etc. It's a dream come true for me. When I look through my old cd wallets I ponder how on Earth I ever used to find anything.

[mattydj50]

The reason I'm still stuck in the 19th century using CDs is that I simply haven't got years of spare time to rim my CD collection onto a hard drive to make them digital friendly (not to mention the cost of a ProDub licence).

I did of course start in the arm wrenching era of vinyl, so even CDs represent a significant weight reduction in music. My 3 x Denon DN-4500 CD players have only once put a foot wrong and, with the spare already connected, that was soon sorted.

Its a system what I have been used to for the last 20 years and, back then, I vowed I'd never get a CD player as I had too much vinyl. Oh well, something changed my mind!!

I have every track I have on an Excel database and finding even the most obscure request often only takes 30 seconds.

So for several reasons, I am staying with CDs for now, though the DND-4500 mk 2 does have 2 USB inputs so there is a route for playing music from USB's, which is slowly taking shape.

I have looked at digital controllers with everything in mind and I must admit, the preference is at the moment is for the Denon MC-6000 mk 2. But what I would sincerely prefer is a controller that does not need a laptop. Remember the Cortex? I wish I'd bought one then.

Now, has anyone got a spare year?

[Nakatomi]

Ah I forgot about all the ripping. And the tagging. Oh my days the tagging!

Ripping wasn't so bad. Me & my wife worked as a team, with no less than 4 computers on the go over the course of a few weeks. I relied on autolookups initially & then corrected tracks later.

As a bar & club dj my core library was at most 400 discs, mostly compilations & pool CDs so wasn't too bad for remembering where everything was.

I'm not mocking you at all & fully sympathise with your reluctance to change. Back when I only used vinyl I'd see my cd touting dj friend try to persuade me, only to see one of his players go into a spasm just before I left the bar :rofl:

When I ultimately made the switch to cd it still didn't leave vinyl behind completely.

My first ever gig using a laptop alone didn't go well. Playout hung, still playing music but couldn't be interacted with so I had to go back to CD for a few tunes while it rebooted. That almost put me off forever.

Preparing to go out on the road entirely digital took weeks & weeks. Mostly tagging, sorting & testing. It was a slog & even today I'm finding badly tagged tracka. Would I ever consider going back? Not on your life!

[Pe7e]

Remember the Cortex? I wish I'd bought one then.


Is this the sort of cortex you wish you had bought? DMix 600 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=Kt%2bOcTbH&id=88A6BB01BBF02BBECB3F5C4B33AB134D37AAA39A&thid=OIP.Kt-OcTbH7E9Xl8bdo4OKTAHaET&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.theaudioworksuk.com%2fme dia%2fcatalog%2fproduct%2fcache%2f1%2fimage%2fdc55 1b25cc7a3eb4eb08fc394d09b3f7%2fc%2fo%2fcortex-dmix-600_audio_works_1.jpg&exph=1453&expw=2500&q=cortex+dmix+600&simid=608006791233081174&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=)

[DJ Jules]

Just for the record - I had a Numark Mixdeck express for a few years and, while I primarily used it as a digital controller (it does both), it was also very reliable for playing CD's. It's not amazingly well built (that shouldn't come as a surprise) and is a little bit plasticy, but it did it's job well. You can expect the main Cue/Play buttons to get sticky and fail eventually (as with most of these devices built around tactile switches).

The Gemini and Cortex units are built around the same engine (same company and both came out of the same lab), so it's funny that you've dismissed the Gemini unit, but would accept a Cortex :D I had a Cortex unit for years (digital player only, no CD's) and it was reasonably solid and reliable other than the odd crash, but nowhere near as easy and friendly to use as a laptop.

You're going to soon find that you run out of options for CD's - there are going to be very few devices left that play them other than your separate table top units and a handful of Chinese manufacturers who keep trotting out Numark CDN22 clones. I'm sure DJ's will be selling off their old units, giving you a cheap 2nd hand source for years :)

Regardless of what you do now, it might be worth starting to feed those CD's into a PC whenever you get a spare minute to build up your MP3 collection. I had 700+ CD's to RIP when I started and I just made a habit of switching over the CD's and pressing GO whenever I noticed the CD tray open.

[rth_discos]

I simply haven't got years of spare time to rim my CD collection onto a hard drive to make them digital friendly (not to mention the cost of a ProDub licence).

...

the DND-4500 mk 2 does have 2 USB inputs so there is a route for playing music from USB's, which is slowly taking shape.


That will still require Pro Dub...

[mattydj50]

That will still require Pro Dub...

No it doesn't, because the only stuff I have on my USB's have been bought as digital files.

I have already started ripping CDs to a blank hard drive as and when time permits (early evening to end of buffet time, or sit down meal time is good for a few).

Having used vinyl and CD for the past 48 years, what I find difficult is having the hard copy sleeves in front of me in the box to thumb through for "dead mind" inspiration.

Trouble is, by the time I finish ripping, I might have retired!

[Nakatomi]

Technically if you so much as move a file from one device to another you need produb. For example.. Download music on a home computer, transfer to USB drive... Ouch.

Regarding inspiration.. That's where filter folders, virtual folders etc come into their own.

[Benny Smyth]

No it doesn't, because the only stuff I have on my USB's have been bought as digital files.


Technically if you so much as move a file from one device to another you need produb. For example.. Download music on a home computer, transfer to USB drive... Ouch.

Justin (and initially Gavin) is right - the moment you make a copy of a digital track, you should be in possession of Produb.

[Excalibur]

Justin (and initially Gavin) is right - the moment you make a copy of a digital track, you should be in possession of Produb.

Oh goody. Here we go again, which :muppet: used the P word? :mad:
I applied to go on Mastermind, and have it as my specialist subject, but they said no, as they couldn't find anyone who understood it well enough to set questions on it! :bang:

Sorry Matthew, the first time you shove a USB stick in the socket, you need the licence. :( Even if I hadn't gone digital, my use of Minidisc would have meant me buying the :Censored: thing.

[stormproductions]

Sorry to sound grumpy but can we keep this on topic please gang?

With regard to the Gemini/Cortex I hadn't mentioned the Cortex, that was someone else, but I wouldn't consider that either - (a) it appears to just be yet another random digital controller as opposed to an all-in-one and (b) it's not exactly a major brand either is it.

I'll repeat myself... As mentioned in my OP, I need kit through which I can play digital files (from a Windows laptop as that's what it's already on, although I'd consider changing from Traktor LE to something else) plus CDs. My choice but that's what I'm after. Any more suggestions?

[Nakatomi]

Even MOVING a file from one place to another constitutes a need for the blasted thing. See also, changing tag content is classed as format shifting. :devil:

Back on topic.. The MC6000 will probably fit your needs just fine as already stated.

[Excalibur]

Sorry to sound grumpy but can we keep this on topic please gang?
I shall consider my wrist well and truly slapped! You'd think I'd know better, wouldn't you? :whistle:




With regard to the Gemini/Cortex I hadn't mentioned the Cortex, that was someone else, but I wouldn't consider that either - (a) it appears to just be yet another random digital controller as opposed to an all-in-one and (b) it's not exactly a major brand either is it.

I'll repeat myself... As mentioned in my OP, I need kit through which I can play digital files (from a Windows laptop as that's what it's already on, although I'd consider changing from Traktor LE to something else) plus CDs. My choice but that's what I'm after. Any more suggestions?

There is an American Audio range, which was discontinued a while ago. Linky (https://www.adj.com/encore-2000) I know someone who uses one, and it's fine.
The Gemini/Cortex family don't offer a true all in one solution, and I checked out every :Censored: one in my search.

My two pennorth is cheap option Numark, or pay more for Pioneer. I'm on record as being very anti Denon MC, it's the only make of controller I and colleagues have had problems with.

[Pe7e]

Excalibur - thanks for that, vaguely the sort of thing I could be interested in although I see they do a quad version which would be preferable for me, but are Numark any good nowadays?


I've got a Mix Deck Quad if you're interested in 'as new condition' (even still got the plastic film on the screens) in a brand new heavy duty waterproof case fitted with a pressure relief valve) the case cost me £50 - £60 from memory. The only thing worth mentioning is one of the two small plastic knobs that are situated to the bottom left side of both decks directly above the reject button is missing, the spindle is perfectly OK, and can easily be turned with your fingers. I emailed a couple of spares suppliers to get a new one, unfortunately without success. For a person like yourself with the skill, and access to a small lathe, it would only take 15 mins or so to make one. The photo's I've posted are from the internet, If you are genuinely interested I'll take some of the actual item, but they won't show you anything different, other than the missing knob, it is as new. I'm looking for £400 for the player, PSU, 2 x License cards & codes, the new case, support device for an iPad and a few cables & odds and sods that come with it, I don't think have a manual, but it will be downloadable off the web. As for if Numark are reliable? The players I have in my hire stock are almost exclusively Numark CDMix Bluetooth, I've been hiring them out to all and sundry for years, if they weren't reliable I'd have found something better by now! can't speak for other peoples experience though. Before anyone asks, it's been used a few times by a friend of mind but it has never been out on hire, I bought it with a specific job in mind, which unfortunately never happened
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[stormproductions]

Thanks all, plenty to think about and investigate more. Pe7e - don't think that Numark is for me bu thanks for the offer.

[yourdj]

My two pennorth is cheap option Numark, or pay more for Pioneer. I'm on record as being very anti Denon MC, it's the only make of controller I and colleagues have had problems with.

Denons new stuff is basically better Numark stuff now as its the same company. :)
Bit like Skoda and VW.

[stormproductions]

I'm sure you've all been biting your nails anxiously waiting for an update...

Well I finally took the plunge and bought a secondhand Pioneer XDJ-R1 in flightcase. It's arrived, I've unpacked it and plugged it in and...

...now I've got to learn how to use it. Seems like it should be as close as I'm going to get for what I need, even if I'll occasionally need to plug a small external mixer in too and feed that into the aux if I need more channels for mics/musicians etc.

Thanks for your advice gang.

[yourdj]

I'm sure you've all been biting your nails anxiously waiting for an update...

Well I finally took the plunge and bought a secondhand Pioneer XDJ-R1 in flightcase. It's arrived, I've unpacked it and plugged it in and...

...now I've got to learn how to use it. Seems like it should be as close as I'm going to get for what I need, even if I'll occasionally need to plug a small external mixer in too and feed that into the aux if I need more channels for mics/musicians etc.

Thanks for your advice gang.

Good move.

I bet you sell that, go for a more advanced digital only unit in at least a year

You will wonder why you ever used those silver plastic things. :o

Assuming you use your new controller with a laptop that is.

[Imagine]

I'll still advocate the Denon MC7000. A brilliant (if massive and heavy) beast of a machine with all the inputs you'll ever need.

Been using it for 8 months now and never missed a beat.

One day I'll have the balls to upgrade to the MC8000 and not need a laptop....one day....

[Excalibur]

One day I'll have the balls to upgrade to the MC8000 and not need a laptop.....

No laptop, you say? Guess I'm ahead of the game yet again, then, having once more reinvented the wheel. Having tried loads of different backup systems recently, from as complicated as a VMS2/Laptop to as simple as a tablet,where space permits I'm now using a Numark DDS! :)

I had the chance to look at a VMS5 on Friday, and while it's a step forward from the 4 in some ways, it's not perfect. Ah well. :(