I'm starting to fall out of love with photographers

[Benny Smyth]

I want to preface this by saying that in no way am I tarnishing all photographers with this paintbrush. Indeed, when I end up working with photographers that I've worked with previously, it's nice to have a catch up with them and there are those out there whom I hadn't worked with yet who have been fun to collaborate with.

However, over the last three or four months, the majority (again, not all, but most) of photographers have really started to irk me. The worst of which was a chap I worked with who after I held out my hand and said "Hi Fella, I'm Benny" proceeded to not acknowledge my gesture or greeting and just jump straight into asking question of what lights the venue dip when the shindig kicks off. "Do you want to know what my first dance lighting is?" "Nah!" was the reply before walking off. Thanks Mr. DJ! :rolleyes:

Karma worked itself out on that one, to be fair. I've worked with photographers who like colour during the first dance and those who hate it. As a result, I have a plain white, open spot floor sweep for those who don't like colour and a purple wash/pink hearts for those that do. For any photographer who doesn't have a preference, I tend to start off with the floor sweeps first then onto the wash for the second half of the song so they can get a bit of variety in their shots. Needless to say, all are forewarned and demonstrated as requested. Don't forget, my man here wasn't interested and I proceeded to watch him get his exposure just right for (and I kid you not) half an hour before the first dance. The problem? I had no lighting on at the time, with the exception of the plinths being uplit (is that a word?). You can imagine the panic on his face when the floor sweeps started for the first dance. It was even funnier when after he got his exposure right, I left it about a minute before the lighting changed to the wash.

That chap was the worst of the bunch. I've run into photographers who ignore my existence and then go into an immediate panic when my lighting starts off, trying to interrupt me while I'm making introductions. Those who ask me to do XY&Z for them without even a hello to kick off the conversation. Those who try to dictate timings to me and bring the first dance forward by an hour because they want to clock off. I like to think of myself as a pretty relaxed guy but there has been at least one occasion where I told a photographer to walk away, come back in 5 minutes and try again with some politeness.

And the thing that irritates me the most? That moment of realisation. You can see exactly when it happens - when they think to themselves: "Wow! This is actually a good DJ with a good setup." The fact that up to that point in their minds, there is absolutely no way that there is such a thing as a good DJ. Ugh, why couldn't they have a band? It'd be easier to get dancing shots with a band.

Yeah, it's a bit of a rant this one and again, not all 'togs are like this. But what I have noticed in recent moths is that I'm starting to run into a lot more aloof photographers and I genuinely cannot see how that approach yields a positive outcome for themselves or the client.

:soapbox:

[Imagine]

But what I have noticed in recent moths is that I'm starting to run into a lot more aloof photographers and I genuinely cannot see how that approach yields a positive outcome for themselves or the client.

:soapbox:

Aloof? Or inexperienced?

I'm seeing a lot of photographers of late who don't appear to be overly confident/experienced in wedding work. That said, I've worked as usual with a LOT of very experienced chaps and chappesses who know exactly how, what, who, when and why.

I had one a couple of weeks ago. One of my usual haunts (the one with the black starry marquee). Took about half an hour to get his exposure right in there (and that was with my lighting on) only to realise that he had to go back to the main, bright white marquee before the FD to do the cake cutting :) (which raises the question....why only the one camera but that's one for another day).

[Corabar Steve]

A couple of years back I had one go "Cheers then, I'm off" a full hour before the first dance.

Me "You what?"

"I've got a train to catch"

"But we haven't done the first dance yet"

"Not my problem"

Now granted we were running about half an hour late, but this was still half an hour before the scheduled time & 20 minutes before cake cutting was due.

The bride & groom's first dance photos consist of stuff the videographer & I took between doing what we were supposed to be doing.

[rth_discos]

Those who try to dictate timings to me and bring the first dance forward by an hour because they want to clock off.

Yup, am seeing this more and more.

Photographer seem to come in one of two flavours:

1: Don't care how long they are there for - they will get the job done and have booked out the evening, despite only being 'booked' until 7:30pm
2: Is leaving the moment their booked time comes round. Even if they were booked until 7pm, with an 'optimistic' time for a first dance that anyone who has done more than a handful of weddings would know wouldn't be achievable.

Why do weddings if all you want to do is get off so quickly? Or did they not charge the right fee? Regardless, it's the photographers fault, and is a stark contrast when you work with a photographer who will do whatever it takes to get great photos for the couple.

[mike8863]

And, Knowing how much they charge , why go early and end up losing the full fee for not fulfilling their obligation , for the sake of an hour? I have carried on past my stated end time as
A. I had respect for the happy couple .
B. everyone was enjoying it including me.
We said and extra half hour included in what I had already charged them, not a problem for me , I would have probably done an extra 10-15 minutes anyway with the "play one more" brigade, so an hour passes the bride and groom come up to me and hand me folded cash, £20 which I accept gracefully.
the guests leave , I start to pack down , out of curiosity I check the £20 and there are 3 folded up !

[rth_discos]

And, Knowing how much they charge

If we think the DJ industry is competitive, it's nothing compared to photographers.

Even the best photographers are just about achieving an acceptable fee.

Those photographers going out for £500 - £800 are running round like headless chickens trying to make everything work, once you include editing time.

I've seen 1 photographer mention he has over 100k images in his editing queue!!!

They've taken on the work, but not accounted properly for the editing, especially when working part-time as a photographer, alongside a 'normal' day job.

[Benny Smyth]

Yup, am seeing this more and more.

Photographer seem to come in one of two flavours:

1: Don't care how long they are there for - they will get the job done and have booked out the evening, despite only being 'booked' until 7:30pm
2: Is leaving the moment their booked time comes round. Even if they were booked until 7pm, with an 'optimistic' time for a first dance that anyone who has done more than a handful of weddings would know wouldn't be achievable.

Why do weddings if all you want to do is get off so quickly? Or did they not charge the right fee? Regardless, it's the photographers fault, and is a stark contrast when you work with a photographer who will do whatever it takes to get great photos for the couple.

As odd as it sounds, 'togs leaving at - for example - 7pm isn't the bit that irks me. If the 'tog charges per hour and the client is informed that they will be leaving before the first dance, that's cool. Everyone is aware of what's going on. Not ideal, but may be an option for couples who want to save money (they'll kick themselves afterwards when they realise that the 'disposable cameras on the tables instead of a professional' won't deliver the results they want, but that's another conversation for another day).

But to have a first dance so early is, in itself, a dumb idea and doing it because you want to go home is a dick move. I know that they're long days (even more so if you have to travel) and I'm for helping each other out when needed (let's be honest here: if we wanted to, we could convince most of our clients that it's a much better idea to have upbeat background music until after the buffet, THEN have the first dance to properly kick start the party without any interruptions but we don't because we know that those with cameras are exhausted by that point) but I will put my foot down on kicking off the party too early. Evening guests are still arriving and we need time to build an atmosphere - it's our lowly equivalent of a support act before the main event kicks in.

Imagine Foo Fighters actually starting their performance at 7pm? Yikes!

[rth_discos]

As odd as it sounds, 'togs leaving at - for example - 7pm isn't the bit that irks me.

Whilst I get that, it's the photographer who provides the quote. Even if they're told 'first dance at 7pm', as a photographer, I'd be quoting for that, but taking in to account that it's unlikely I'd be out of the door before 8pm.

If a tog isn't doing that, then they are the ones to blame. The brides don't go organising a wedding every week - it's for us to spot the signs and quote accordingly. For example, if someone wants me for an evening only in a marquee, I will always quote on the basis that I'm setting up early afternoon before any guests arrive. That's what being a professional is about.

[Excalibur]

Whilst I get that, it's the photographer who provides the quote. Even if they're told 'first dance at 7pm', as a photographer, I'd be quoting for that, but taking in to account that it's unlikely I'd be out of the door before 8pm.

If a tog isn't doing that, then they are the ones to blame. The brides don't go organising a wedding every week - it's for us to spot the signs and quote accordingly. For example, if someone wants me for an evening only in a marquee, I will always quote on the basis that I'm setting up early afternoon before any guests arrive. That's what being a professional is about.

Now hold on there, Musky! I think you've got the cart before the horse here. I suspect the tog advises the happy couple to have the first dance at 7pm, and hopes that he/she can lean on enough people to make it happen.

As seasoned ( jaundiced? ) professionals, we're more in the " whenever" camp. Wedding timetables are fickle things.

[DJ Jules]

I've had a couple recently who have annoyed me a little but, on the whole, I get on Ok with photographers...

About a year ago I had a photographer walk into the room while I was about 15mins from being setup and ask if we could do the first dance in 5mins (a full 45mins ahead of the scheduled time). At this point the venue hadn't finished getting the room ready so I replied with "Yes, as long as you've got a good voice and you don't mind doing it without all of the guests". The first dance eventually happened, but 15mins later than planned as the venue struggled to bring all of the guests back into the room.

Second time at the same venue, about 2 months ago now, we had a severely delayed cake cut and first dance because we had some Scottish guests who were intent on making full use of the bar in the break between the end of the daytime proceedings and the evening and, unfortunately, the bar was in a different building. It ended up being 45mins later than planned and about 5mins before the buffet. The cake cut and first dance happened without any issue and I kicked off the evening and then almost immediately had to announce the buffet. The Photographer then realised that he didn't have an evening group shot and I had to cut the music and bring all of the guests back from the buffet to get that final shot!

In terms of the lighting issues, I generally either don't have lights strong enough to overpower any flash being used and/or I ensure that I start the evening with a bit of colour and some slow chases/moving lights and I don't vary these for the first dance - which saves the photographer a shock :D The majority of photographers do ask about the lighting I'm planning on using and the really good ones anticipate what I might do, prepare and are then skilled enough that they can adapt quickly if it changes.

Julian

[ppentertainments]

As seasoned ( jaundiced? ) professionals, we're more in the " whenever" camp. Wedding timetables are fickle things.
I agree and disagree with that.

If a couple has planned their whole day and has chosen their first dance to be at 8pm, provided things are running to plan their first dance will be 8pm - not 7.30/7.45 so the photographer or venue staff can get away early - which is usually the only reason to bring a first dance forward.

I had one instance last year where the photographer had a 'train to catch' and we had to do the first dance as evening guests were still arriving otherwise there would be no first dance photos, even though it was supposed to happen an hour later and I assume the photographer would be aware.

I think it is a double edged sword too - how many times are you booked till midnight and receive an email a week or so beforehand to say it is now 1am without any offer of ££ or checking if possible ? I assume this happens with photographers too (ie book till7.30pm but have the first dance planned for 8pm)

[khards]

I have a had a few photographers ask me to adjust my lighting this year. Luckily i'm running freestyler with everything DMX'ed so I can adjust it all.
I have now taken to static white lighting for first dance, with moving spoty - then it up a bit towards the end of the song after the photographer has taken the first dance photos.

[Nakatomi]

I've seen a lot of photographers advertising their services as 'including your first dance' which to me looks like they're open about a reasonable home time. They probably don't all account for time slippages & this is where the problem starts - they've assumed it'll be before a certain time.

It's been a while since I've met a photographer who was difficult or demanding to work with. I've stopped joking about the 1st dance time being when I switch on all my dotty lights & cluster lasers though.. I thought I was being funny but the look of genuine horror on their faces told me otherwise. Whoops. There was one a couple of months ago got a bit carried away photographing the shapes my gobos were making in the haze & didn't notice the B&G were ready to cut their cake.

I show all photographers how the 1st dance lighting will look & if they're not happy about something I can change it. Most don't have any concerns & if anything quite a few don't avoid getting my rig in shot. Me on the other hand.. the number of times I've been asked to duck out of the way... :rofl:

[DJ Jules]

Me on the other hand.. the number of times I've been asked to duck out of the way... :rofl:

I usually intentionally lurk behind my speakers :D

[Excalibur]

I usually intentionally lurk behind my speakers :D

Even though I've lost a bit of weight, no way is a Maui 11 going to hide me! :)

[Steven]

Me on the other hand.. the number of times I've been asked to duck out of the way... :rofl:

I remember very distinctly a local photographer who wasn't shy about getting in a couple of the photos himself with the bride and groom but come the first dance was quick to tell me to shift out of the way (me being me having to pretty much sit down to avoid being seen behind the booth)

Its not like i'm unsightly or not dressed the part!

[mattydj50]

I had a tog a couple of years ago insist that I stop the music (it was about 9.45pm and the floor had filled up nicely after the buffet) so that he could organise a dance off between the bride and groom. Who were, by chance not even in the room.

He was told where to go in no uncertain terms. I was later summoned by the venue to explain myself as the tog in question had complained about my unprofessional attitude.

You can guess my response. The venue agreed with me that, once the formal bits are over (first dance and the like) the evening was mine and, if he was still there to record the evening informally.

Had he approached me earlier and asked me if we could arrange something,of course, we could have worked something between us, but to just stand there and bark orders at me, that don't work.

He was working about 60 miles away from home, so I bet he had a lovely journey home, muttering to himself.

I discussed this later with three local photographer freinds and they were all in agreement, they would never have done the same, but would have approached me beforehand to form a joint plan.