December Cancellations

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Opinions please.

A venue we supply has cancelled 6 bookings in December. These are all contracted bookings and 3 are on Saturdays. Even though the bookings were confirmed, signed and contracted, they dont want to pay the cancellation fees involved and have made a thinly veiled threat that if I do charge, they might be looking elsewhere in the future.

I have tried to be flexible and not charge for 3 of them and this is a decent venue that does give me quite a lot of work. I feel it makes a mockery of my contracts which is suppose to protect both parties.

[Benny Smyth]

Opinions please.

A venue we supply has cancelled 6 bookings in December. These are all contracted bookings and 3 are on Saturdays. Even though the bookings were confirmed, signed and contracted, they dont want to pay the cancellation fees involved and have made a thinly veiled threat that if I do charge, they might be looking elsewhere in the future.

I have tried to be flexible and not charge for 3 of them and this is a decent venue that does give me quite a lot of work. I feel it makes a mockery of my contracts which is suppose to protect both parties.

I'd tell them that you've been willing to give yourself a 50% haircut by not charging for three of the cancelled events but since they have demonstrated how much they value you, you'll be more than happy and be well within your right to charge them for all six and good luck to them on finding someone who will deliver the level of service that you do.

But then, I'm getting zero work in this situation so what I have got to lose?

I can only say that I had a residency in the past where there was a payment issue (they wanted to pay 120 days after the event). It got to the point where I walked away after fulfilling my already agreed obligations, but I did say that those obligations were under the old payment terms and if they try pulling that 120 day bull-bleep on me, I'll cancel the rest and nail them to the wall for breach of contract.

Guess who called me 9 months later like a crazy ex?

In this scenario, you're on a loser whichever way you go. It's up to you which loss bothers you least.

[rth_discos]

Opinions please.

A venue we supply has cancelled 6 bookings in December. These are all contracted bookings and 3 are on Saturdays. Even though the bookings were confirmed, signed and contracted, they dont want to pay the cancellation fees involved and have made a thinly veiled threat that if I do charge, they might be looking elsewhere in the future.

I have tried to be flexible and not charge for 3 of them and this is a decent venue that does give me quite a lot of work. I feel it makes a mockery of my contracts which is suppose to protect both parties.

Christmas parties aren't what they used to be. Venues are struggling to fill dates.

You'd probably find a cancellation fee hard to enforce anyway.

Plus there's an abundance of other suppliers who'll take on the work.

Cut your loses, move on, and retain the relationship.

Otherwise, someone else who is more flexible will be willing to take on the work.

That's the risk that comes in working in an industry that is over-supplied (sadly).

[Excalibur]

Tore up the first reply, figuratively speaking.

I'd be wary of them, because it's clear that your card is marked. Future negotiations will always have the " elephant in the room " of losing the contract, if you don't play by their rules.


I'd tell them that you've been willing to give yourself a 50% haircut by not charging for three of the cancelled events but since they have demonstrated how much they value you, you'll be more than happy and be well within your right to charge them for all six and good luck to them on finding someone who will deliver the level of service that you do.

But then, I'm getting zero work in this situation so what I have got to lose?


In this scenario, you're on a loser whichever way you go. It's up to you which loss bothers you least.

I'm with Benny on this.

[DJ Jules]

For the last couple of years I've had agents chasing me for Xmas work and for the last couple of years I've taken a moderate number of dates from them throughout November and December. Last year I had challenges though because I ended up paying other DJ's more than I was being paid to cover gigs that came in after I committed to the agency - and I had the added complication that a couple of the agencies' venues pulled a bunch of dates from them in early November leaving me with a few gaps in my calendar (that I did mostly fill).

This year I've only taken off peak dates from agencies (Thursdays and Sundays) and filled the remainder of my calendar with my own gigs. I'm fully expecting at least some of these to be pulled as Hotels around here are struggling to fill their Xmas parties (it's really cut-throat). Bearing in mind that I'm booked Tuesday to Sunday most weeks in December it'll actually be a relief if they do :D

Back to the OP - I'm afraid I agree with Benny. It's one of the bigger reasons I'm not interested in working directly with hotels.

Julian

[Excalibur]

Back to the OP - I'm afraid I agree with Benny. It's one of the bigger reasons I'm not interested in working directly with hotels.

Julian

It was ever thus. :( The swings and roundabouts of ( theoretically ) constant guaranteed work, with possible cancellations versus taking your chance on the open market. One of our esteemed members on here, who I'm always happy to work for, is doubtless weighing up his options currently. Somehow, Hotels have a habit of delivering less than they promise, while often throwing in a curve ball or two.

I think I'm with Julian on this one.

[rth_discos]

Last year I had challenges though because I ended up paying other DJ's more than I was being paid to cover gigs that came in after I committed to the agency]

Not much of a commitment!

Seems this 'lack of commitment' has become a 2 way street.

Reap what you sow and all that.

[Excalibur]

]

Not much of a commitment!

Seems this 'lack of commitment' has become a 2 way street.

Reap what you sow and all that.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, Gavin. I read it as Julian doing Agency gigs for £x, and paying Rodney's Reliable Discos £x+50 to cover the gig he would have had if he hadn't taken the low paying agency gig. Morally fine, if I'm right.


Last year I had challenges though because I ended up paying other DJ's more than I was being paid to cover gigs that came in after I committed to the agency

[rth_discos]

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick, Gavin. I read it as Julian doing Agency gigs for £x, and paying Rodney's Reliable Discos £x+50 to cover the gig he would have had if he hadn't taken the low paying agency gig. Morally fine, if I'm right.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted it!

Maybe one for another thread, but I don't understand this desire to act as a 'mini agency' when other gigs come in.

With me, if I'm booked, I'm booked - but will pass on details of other DJs to contact.

[Excalibur]

Maybe one for another thread, but I don't understand this desire to act as a 'mini agency' when other gigs come in.

With me, if I'm booked, I'm booked - but will pass on details of other DJs to contact.

Now we're on the same page. Gavin, I'm with you completely. :approve:

From what I can see, an awful lot of the " help, my DJ's cancelled five weeks/days/minutes before the gig" stem from Helpful Harry's Discos being fully booked for a date, but taking a deposit ( which they keep ) and hoping to pass it on to Ron's Reliable Discos at the balance price.
I also suspect that since most of us are helpful types, we don't relish the prospect of a gig without a DJ, so we try our best to help a " friend in need ". Now whether the " friend " is in need of digging out of a hole entirely of his own making...............................:whistle:

[DazzyD]

Apologies if I've misinterpreted it!

Maybe one for another thread, but I don't understand this desire to act as a 'mini agency' when other gigs come in.

With me, if I'm booked, I'm booked - but will pass on details of other DJs to contact.


Now we're on the same page. Gavin, I'm with you completely. :approve:

From what I can see, an awful lot of the " help, my DJ's cancelled five weeks/days/minutes before the gig" stem from Helpful Harry's Discos being fully booked for a date, but taking a deposit ( which they keep ) and hoping to pass it on to Ron's Reliable Discos at the balance price.
I also suspect that since most of us are helpful types, we don't relish the prospect of a gig without a DJ, so we try our best to help a " friend in need ". Now whether the " friend " is in need of digging out of a hole entirely of his own making...............................:whistle:

Completely agree. I've never ever taken on a booking for a date I'm unavailable. I've never taken a payment for a gig I couldn't do or wouldn't be doing myself. I even built my original booking system (pre-DJEP) to make it impossible to be double-booked and all because I simply don't trust anyone else to provide the same level of service that I provide. I even felt really nervous about letting my own brother do a gig even though I knew that he was more than capable. I guess it's just the way I am!

[funkymook]

Completely agree. I've never ever taken on a booking for a date I'm unavailable. I've never taken a payment for a gig I couldn't do or wouldn't be doing myself.

Same here, I’m not an agent or multi-op.

if I’m not available I recommend a few trusted DJs to the client and that’s where my involvement ends.
Unless you are running a legitimate agency/multi-op it feels a but scummy to farm a booking out for a cheaper rate and take a cut.

[Shaun]

At the point the venue made the thinly veiled threat that would be the beginning of the end anyway in my eyes. The relationship in my opinion is tarnished from this point.

What was their reply to your offer of 3?

[Excalibur]

At the point the venue made the thinly veiled threat that would be the beginning of the end anyway in my eyes. The relationship in my opinion is tarnished from this point.

What was their reply to your offer of 3?

The boy has struck the nail fairly and squarely on the head.:agree:

[DJ Jules]

Apologies if I've misinterpreted it!

Maybe one for another thread, but I don't understand this desire to act as a 'mini agency' when other gigs come in.

Well that opened another can of worms... Peter has the correct interpretation, I honoured my commitments. As to the whole mini-agency thing, I'm always very reluctant to employ other DJ's. However I employed a few people that I know and trust to cover a select few bookings from customers that know me well enough that I can be completely transparent with them. I also only did it where they wanted another service alongside the DJ that I could support (e.g. photobooth, lighting, PA, etc).

In short, if someone is just after a disco and I'm booked, then I'm booked. But I'll put a DJ in with a photobooth so that the whole booking doesn't go somewhere else.

Julian

[Nakatomi]

I sometimes have to book other DJs in to cover for me when I go on holiday & it absolutely kills me to do it. It can be people I'd trust to the ends of the earth but that still doesn't stop me bricking it. Picture the scene, lounging by the pool on holiday, staring at my phone at 6pm UK time waiting for a message to say my cover DJ has arrived okay. It's not about how much I trust them or how reliable they are (cos they are very reliable & trustworthy or I wouldn't use them).. it's more the what ifs.. stuff that might be completely unavoidable & I can't help cos I'm too far away. I dunno how multiops who rely on others working for them sleep at night I really don't. FWIW though, I don't skim off the top of my fee for fillin DJs. They're helping me out.

[DazzyD]

At the point the venue made the thinly veiled threat that would be the beginning of the end anyway in my eyes. The relationship in my opinion is tarnished from this point.

What was their reply to your offer of 3?

Totally agree. A business relationship should be an equal one. If they know they can get the upperhand on you then they'll capitalise on it. HOWEVER, I'm also a realist and you need to weigh up the pros and cons. If this venue provides you with most of your work throughout the year then a hit for a few weeks is better than losing out in the long term. But, for me, I'm with Shaun. It would be goodnight Vienna. I must point out though, that its been a lot of years since DJing was my main income so maybe I'm not best qualified to comment.


I sometimes have to book other DJs in to cover for me when I go on holiday & it absolutely kills me to do it. It can be people I'd trust to the ends of the earth but that still doesn't stop me bricking it. Picture the scene, lounging by the pool on holiday, staring at my phone at 6pm UK time waiting for a message to say my cover DJ has arrived okay. It's not about how much I trust them or how reliable they are (cos they are very reliable & trustworthy or I wouldn't use them).. it's more the what ifs.. stuff that might be completely unavoidable & I can't help cos I'm too far away. I dunno how multiops who rely on others working for them sleep at night I really don't. FWIW though, I don't skim off the top of my fee for fillin DJs. They're helping me out.

And knowing you from online, Justin, I can totally understand that. I'll tell you this. Since I had to take "early albeit temporary retirement", you're only one of a handful of people I've recommended when I've had an enquiry come in for your area. I've not even seen you perform, and I know we had our differences early on when I felt you were too negative, but since then I've seen how passionate you are about what you do and that goes a long way in my book. Keep up the good work! :)

[ppentertainments]

I feel it makes a mockery of my contracts which is suppose to protect both parties.

I think this sums things up with residencies. I lost one years ago by charging for a booking, even though they cancelled 4 hours before it started.

Not quite sure how this thread has gone off onto a tangent to multi-ops etc ??

[Pe7e]

I think this sums things up with residencies. I lost one years ago by charging for a booking, even though they cancelled 4 hours before it started.

It's not just residencies regarding DJs, it's a problem affecting many businesses who are faced with a 'buyers market'. I've always taken the pragmatic view, unless I was happy to lose any potential future work. I accept it can leave a bad taste in your mouth, but loosing a lot of lucrative work would leave a far worse one. A similar situation actually happened to me last week with a regular client facing considerable losses from a bonfire and fireworks event. Its been a regular booking for several years, but this year the ticket sales had bombed. I was a bit disappointed on missing out on anticipated income, but I had not actually lost money as I'd not declined any other bookings in order to fulfil this one, and I fully expect future bookings to continue as they have in the past. I would be even more cautious these days before going to litigation, with the rise of social media, a hard won reputation can easily be lost by the actions of a disgruntled client, it's not right, but it's a reality and needs to be considered.

[Excalibur]

I would be even more cautious these days before going to litigation, with the rise of social media, a hard won reputation can easily be lost by the actions of a disgruntled client, it's not right, but it's a reality and needs to be considered.

Not only a consideration with residencies, sadly. I'm always wary of asking for reviews from clients when for five hours before the finish time I've been the best DJ they've ever seen ever, and thirty seconds later, when I won't play " one more" I'm :Censored:.

[Excalibur]

Opinions please.

A venue we supply has cancelled 6 bookings in December.

And in the time honoured practice of willy waving: Eight!:mad:

The forum member who has this residency has shared them out between the team, but it's still a big blow to all concerned. :(

[Imagine]

And in the time honoured practice of willy waving: Eight!:mad:

The forum member who has this residency has shared them out between the team, but it's still a big blow to all concerned. :(

Ouch! :(

I'm starting to get the feeling Chrimbo isn't happening this year. NYE enquiries are well and truly down (not that I actually DO NYE, and corporate Chrimbo stuff just doesn't seem to be coming in this year.

Hey ho....nearly wedding season again ;)

[fullcontact68]

I think the issue here (or so it appears to be for me) is that event companies seem to be sweeping up all the corporate xmas events.

I had virtually no enquiries for December.

As it turns out, I'm booked every Friday and Saturday in December (Thanks to an events company). Otherwise, tumbleweeds.

[Nakatomi]

I've heard on the grapevine that quite a few places are finding it hard to get bums on seats at their Christmas events this year.

My own day job have given the option of an all paid for do but not enough people took them up on it. Personally I spend enough time with people I barely enjoy the company of, without going out of my way to socialise with them too. Maybe there's an element of that going on but I suspect the current political climate & associated financial uncertainty that's made other companies put the brakes on organising works parties.

Let's face it - the vast majority of Christmas parties are work related so I strongly suspect the dreaded brexit has a lot to do with it this year.

[ppentertainments]

I've heard on the grapevine that quite a few places are finding it hard to get bums on seats at their Christmas events this year.

My own day job have given the option of an all paid for do but not enough people took them up on it. Personally I spend enough time with people I barely enjoy the company of, without going out of my way to socialise with them too. Maybe there's an element of that going on but I suspect the current political climate & associated financial uncertainty that's made other companies put the brakes on organising works parties.

Let's face it - the vast majority of Christmas parties are work related so I strongly suspect the dreaded brexit has a lot to do with it this year.

Last year I had 4 free discos for Venue staff parties, so far none of them look like they are going ahead this time.

[DJWilson]

I've heard on the grapevine that quite a few places are finding it hard to get bums on seats at their Christmas events this year.

My own day job have given the option of an all paid for do but not enough people took them up on it. Personally I spend enough time with people I barely enjoy the company of, without going out of my way to socialise with them too. Maybe there's an element of that going on but I suspect the current political climate & associated financial uncertainty that's made other companies put the brakes on organising works parties.

Let's face it - the vast majority of Christmas parties are work related so I strongly suspect the dreaded brexit has a lot to do with it this year.

We've got 4 bookings over 2 weekends in the same hotel/bar/restaurant and all nights have sold out. They wanted to put 6 on but we couldn't do one weekend so they've kept it to 4.

Looks like people down this way want a proper knee's up over December!

[Benny Smyth]

I've had a lot of last minute enquiries from individuals and companies looking for a DJ. I think the party night concept has indeed died on it's arse this year and companies are finding more value in going it alone.

[rth_discos]

I do think the HR culture has put an end to Christmas Parties.

They're not exactly places you can 'let your hair down' like you used to be able to!

Plus, public sector can't be seen to be spending money on luxuries like nights out when they're cutting staff, and that now applies to the private sector too - you can't take the staff out on an expensive jolly if you've had to cut people back recently...

I don't really see many staff enjoy the idea of an enforced night out with the people they have to work with every day.

[Excalibur]

I do think the HR culture has put an end to Christmas Parties.

They're not exactly places you can 'let your hair down' like you used to be able to!



And quite right, harrumph! :mad: Too much of this unruly behaviour, and licentiousness going on nowadays. It's not like it was in my day. :(

[djdj]

And quite right, harrumph! :mad: Too much of this unruly behaviour, and licentiousness going on nowadays. It's not like it was in my day. :(

Smart phones killed Christmas Parties and just about every other party
I make a point of asking people to put them away (not that that makes a difference)
:Censored:

[Nakatomi]

Smart phones killed Christmas Parties and just about every other party
I make a point of asking people to put them away (not that that makes a difference)
:Censored:

Eh?

I barely see anyone on their devices much at parties even now. Maybe a few early doors but when things are going the only time I see a phone out is the ubiquitous selfie.

Anyway I can't see how modern tech has killed off Christmas party BOOKINGS except maybe it's made evidence collection much easier :rofl:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

My first hotel residency saw me DJing at all the Christmas party nights. It was a pleasurable experience for almost 4 years.
Despite the fact that in that 4 years I saw 4 different general managers come and go, all was well. I had a great working relationship with the management and staff and it was enjoyable. I can count on one hand the number of cancellations I had in the first 3 years. It wasn't a problem either as they were cancelled with plenty of notice.

The issues came when a new general manager and sidekick wedding co-ordinator / conference & banqueting manager took over the reigns. I'm not joking when I say it was terrible. The fee I was charging was around the same as every other supplier in the area (I did my research at the time), for 7.00pm - 1.00am.
They had some (in my opinion, and experience), very strange ideas and were adamant that they would work (even though I didn't think they would, but I didn't question them.... The previous managers may have welcomed my ideas and opinions, but I knew the new gruesome twosome wouldn't, so I said nothing.

When the usual meeting came along in August to go over the potential party nights, they bombarded me with loads of them. On 3 weekends they sprung it on me that they wanted 2 Discos on each night (Friday, Saturday and Sunday). I saw the ££££ signs and knew it would be a good earner (potentially). I marked the dates in the diary, contacted my regular DJ and she did the same. Literally 2 weeks before the parties were due to start, the general manager called me in. He cancelled 8 nights if I remember correctly. All 8 nights were going to be covered by my other DJ. Not only was she going to miss out on some decent pay, she had turned down other bookings to commit to me. She wasn't happy, I wasn't happy and our working relationship went downhill very quickly. We didn't speak for a while (luckily it didn't last).

The general manager questioned my cancellation charges too (they were pretty much like anybody elses)...... He asked if I could be a bit lenient and contradicted himself, saying that he realised I was self-employed and it was quite a bit to lose, especially at Christmas. He sat there with a smirk on his face, almost grinning at me. It was totally out of order and I decided there and then that I was NOT going to back down. I had also made up my mind that I was going to make it my last Christmas at the venue. It was seriously hard work doing almost the whole of December with a smile on my face, entertaining their guests when all I really wanted to do was get out of there. During the final week of parties, I received payment for the cancelled bookings, and also for the majority of parties I had done. The rest would be paid after Christmas. I was happy with that.....well....until I noticed a letter from the general manager in a Christmas card from the venue.

In the letter he stated that he was disappointed that I couldn't have been a bit more lenient with them, thanked me for my hard work and then said that they were reviewing their suppliers in the new year, and if I wanted to remain a supplier I would need to drop my prices. That was the kick I needed and it was quite awkward as I had a few more nights to go plus New Years Eve. I did the lot of them, had a really good time and then went in one afternoon in the new year and handed him a letter face to face. He knew exactly what it was, shook my hand and I walked out. It was a relief to be honest, but also quite scary as the venue gave me plenty of work during the year and Christmas.

As I said, I was still relatively new back then. I had been doing the job self-employed for 4 years, earning decent money, but now I was stuck (or so I thought).
Luckily I got myself another 2 residencies (better aswell) very quickly.

Darren, you know as well as the rest of us that what they say goes..... They are all about making as much money as they can. They don't care about us at the end of the day. It doesn't matter how good your working relationship is with them, it can all end just like that. It's a pain, but it happens all the time.
IF I were still doing the job like I used to, I would personally not take on a residency.
I hope you manage to get something sorted. I personally wouldn't back down. You have a good reputation and maybe they'll realise (too late, if you go walkies), that they've lost a good thing? They need you (a decent supplier), more than you need them. You'll find work anywhere. They won't find another reliable, quality supplier straight away who will jump when asked to.............or maybe they will? Who knows? What I DO know, is that even though I felt quite nervous when it hit me that I'd more or less binned a good payer, it all worked out well in the end.

[mattydj50]

And in the time honoured practice of willy waving: Eight!:mad:

The forum member who has this residency has shared them out between the team, but it's still a big blow to all concerned. :(

It seems that they were attempting to sell two party nights each Friday and Saturday, with the hope of a third, private function filling the rarely used third room. One of the party nights featured a tribute band plus disco and the other just a disco for £5 less. On some nights, the disco party night hasn't sold enough places so those that have booked have been upgraded free of charge to the tribute night. If the original higher payers find out there will be trouble.

On the first Friday, EVERYTHING has been cancelled and I have noticed today a Black Friday advert giving a 20% discount on all new bookings. Selling well then....

[Imagine]

And now it's my time to join in :(

I had TWO (yes....TWO) "corporate" Xmas parties booked for December. One of those has just cancelled on me due to lack of numbers.
So, the quietest December on record for me then....just three parties and one of those is the local Primary end of term gig for the kids.

As things stand...last party (the local primary kids) on 13th December, then nothing until my wedding season re-starts in April next year (I'm not going to fret too much because something always comes in).

What in the name of all that's holy is going on? :daft:

[DJ Jules]

....and here we go again. As predicted, all of the dates from the agency have just been cancelled. I was expecting that and I only allowed the agency to take my Thursday and Sunday nights so I'm not exactly upset.

The remainder of December is rammed, as is January! But other than the usual school Xmas discos and a few daytime kids parties, it's mostly weddings!

Julian

[ckpr2]

If you play hard ball you risk losing future gigs.
If you play soft ball then you can be seen as a soft touch and then get messed around even more.

I would be inclined to meet them in the middle and ask for half the lost money but make the point you are meeting them half way.
If they still stick to their guns then maybe then roll over and accept it but at least you have not come across as an easy touch.

[ppentertainments]

How did this end up Darren ?

I budget for an amount of cancellations over December - venues can often be a little over ambitious - however have found this year to beat every other year for cancellations - including 3 on NYE.

I have took most of it on the chin, however with one venue I am 'in negotiations' as my NYE has a 2 month cancellation period and they only cancelled on Monday. On top of that I have nearly £8k of overdue invoices from them.

[Excalibur]

I have took most of it on the chin, however with one venue I am 'in negotiations' as my NYE has a 2 month cancellation period and they only cancelled on Monday. On top of that I have nearly £8k of overdue invoices from them.

Good luck with that one. I don't foresee it ending amicably. :(

[ppentertainments]

Good luck with that one. I don't foresee it ending amicably. :(

I will let you know at 12:01am ;)

Amicably - No, simply because it isn't workable for me.

[Andy P]

I sacked off my only residency this year due to poor payment and even poorer excuses. For the last two years I've worked for a local "agent" and friend but suffered last year when a few gigs got cancelled, like Chris said they book the dates and a DJ then try to fill them, if you don't they cut losses. That didn't work for me so this year I've just taken some bookings that came in and stayed available for some dates when the obligatory DJ is ill phone calls came in.

Thus far i'll earn the same amount as last year doing 8 less gigs so I'm a happy bunny, especially as I've started Uni this year so have less spare time.