Starting out on a budget.

[djxkott]

Hi everyone, Ive been put forward to do an event, ain’t worked one in about 20 years and the problem is I don’t have any equipment. I’ve been looking at renting something out but I thought about it and thought for a bit more I could buy a setup and maybe start up a business!

I’ve seen a quite a lot of gear, a lot of unknowns brands. However, lately I’ve seen a few setups on eBay close to me.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 202765821477


https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 183929691630


Wondered what people’s opinions where on some of this gear?

[Excalibur]

Opinions? Short answer- Avoid! As a general rule, kit advertised as a complete rig on Ebay is people who thought they could make loads of money just for pressing play. Once they find out it's not a licence to get paid for playing your fave music, and getting drunk, away it goes on Ebay

Not got a lot of time currently, but if you can find DJs near you, that's a good place for advice, seeing and hearing kit, and often surplus gear. Also good might be a DJ shop, if it's got s/h gear, and a person who's not just a box shifter.

Keep asking questions, it's the best way. More later.

[Benny Smyth]

What budget do you have to play with, and what do you have already? I'm assuming that you have a laptop of some sort?

[Imagine]

I came back into this game several years ago after a rather long sabbatical and one very important lesson I learned.....buy cheap - buy twice (actually in the case of my original QTX speaker setup.....several times :o ).

With most of the kit, it really IS a case of you get what you pay for.

As Benny says though, what sort of budget are you looking at? Your PA will probably be by far your biggest outlay

[rth_discos]

I came back in to this game in 2015.

I had a disco in the late 90s, which I had sold, so was starting with nothing (other than music).

I went to a local DJ shop and the information they gave me was so valuable. They saved me a lot of money in the long term.

So I'll pass on their advice.

Spend as much as you can on the speakers. You can't easily 'upgrade' speakers - so don't buy the wrong ones now. Get the right ones that will last you 5 years.

Don't spend as much on the lighting - you can easily add more in the future.

Here's what I did - I went out and got my bookings first. Rarely does a booking come in 'last minute' - most book months in advance. 10 bookings gave me deposits of £1,500 which covered my advertising etc. And I knew from the remaining balance, that I had about £3k coming in.

So a few weeks before the disco, off I went to the disco shop with my credit card and spent just shy of £6k on new kit. It was all good stuff. But I knew I could pay off that credit card quickly with the gigs I had coming in.

Some of it is even in use today - the speakers and DJ booth remain! Things like the lighting I did upgrade, but I hadn't spent much on that, and it does retain its value quite well.

Do your research. Buy what's right for you - not what some other failed DJ is selling on eBay.

For me, I bought the Evox 8 speakers because of their portability, as well as their incredible sound.

Look at what space you have in your vehicle - assuming you have a car, you already have quite a restriction on how much kit you can take out!

** Just an addition after re-reading your post... rent the kit for the first gig. Don't approach setting up a business as an after thought. If you want to do it, then do it, but do it properly and be aware of what's involved. Maybe rent the kit for this one (even if the rental of the kit is the same cost as what you are charging) and get a feel for doing this again and see if you still enjoy it.

[Imagine]

I'll reiterate what Gavin said about the speakers.....that's the biggest part of what we do. The worst thing in the world is to have them go pop mid-gig.

Whilst Gavin has the Evox 8's, I have several different systems (mainly for different types of function)

* Yamaha DXR15 (they're beasts and will EASILY cover a huge room full of people). They have a known issue with the internal cross-bracings but if you want a LOT of sound - these will fit the bill
* Yamaha DXR8 coupled with Yamaha DSR12 subs. Don't be fooled by the size - this is the PA system I use for most marquee weddings of up to a couple of hundred people
* Maui 28 - a "stick" system which punches well above it's weight for the price
* EV Evolve 50 - these are a very expensive system at just shy of £2k per side, but they're actually my main weapons of choice

ALL of the above are active systems (the amps are built in). The beauty of this is that there's less to carry around, the amps are matched to the actual drivers inside and most of them have fancy gadgetry to ensure you can't actually blow them up (that's not true of all actives by the way). Also, if one doesgo belly up, the other side should still be working.

The most important thing I learned with PA systems though (apart from you really DO get what you pay for), is go and listen to them for yourself. You have to stand between the speakers for 4-5 hours a night and if they don't sound good to you.....it'll be a long night.



Wondered what people’s opinions where on some of this gear?

WOW - just had a look at those. Although I've seen pictures on the interwibble of some questionable setups....those ones take some beating! I'd avoid those like the plague to be honest.

[Excalibur]

Good advice from a couple of " born again DJs " there, Wayne and Gavin. :approve:

Benny makes a valuable point, playout. Do you have a truckload of CDs, or a hard drive full of MP3s? If it's CD, then you will need players and a mixer. These are not expensive s/h, as many people are ditching them as they go digital.

If it's MP3, then a controller with a mixer of some sort built in. It's possible to pick these up for not a lot, as even the cheaper end of the market offers satisfactory and reliable use from quite a few brands.

While I basically agree with my colleagues above about active speakers, a slightly left field suggestion here. If you want the most bang for your buck, ( and the chance to ditch your gym membership :) ) a pair of Peavey Hisys2 speakers, or the newer UL series with 15" drivers,and a whacking great amp will cover most gigs you're likely to get for quite a while.

Good advice already, keep asking questions, and letting us know more info, and we'll get there.

[fullcontact68]

* Yamaha DXR15 (they're beasts and will EASILY cover a huge room full of people). They have a known issue with the internal cross-bracings but if you want a LOT of sound - these will fit the bill


I've a mint pair of these in my garage, not used since buying the Maui 28's. The DXR's they are powerful and sound great. I've used these with a crowd of 350 (Only playing to the dance floor though)



* Maui 28 - a "stick" system which punches well above it's weight for the price


Cannot go wrong with these either, all good choices.

Depending on what types of gigs you plan on doing, you may need more than one setup. (Do you want to take big speakers to a smaller gig? I don't)

[Nakatomi]

Speakers wise, my first set were second hand actives. If you can't afford to buy decent speakers new (not alto TX, not Mackie Thump & definitely nothing cheaper than those) look for second hand deals on used speakers. eBay isn't the place to go for those. Instead look on gumtree & Facebook marketplace & for heaven's sakes audition them before you buy. Test them at LOW volume. For why? Any damage to voice coils that isn't catastrophic probably won't show at higher volumes. Listen for the sound being distorted at low to mid volumes. If they sound at all raspy, AVOID. The same would apply for used passive speakers too. Brands I'd favour.. RCF, Yamaha, Ev, QSC, dB or LD Systems. FBT can be a good shout 2nd hand too.

Lighting wise, you could do worse than a couple of Chauvet Gigbars .

You'll probably need some kind of booth. Tabletop DJ setups are generally regarded as very poor these days (but mostly by DJs not customers). Booths by Equinox often crop up on the second hand market in good condition & won't cost the earth.

Oh & whatever you do, PLEASE don't sling extension leads on lighting or speaker stands. Buy enough IEC cables of the right length to reach your kit from the floor, or use daisy chaining features of fixtures, or else shove a power splitter box at the top of stands, with short cables going to your lights. Nothing but nothing spoils the appearance of a rig more than cables going at all angles to gear.

I like Gavin's advice though.. rent, or stack up some bookings before buying your kit. That's a good call

Budget wise.. you'll be lucky to get yourself a respectable starter setup for under 1500 quid. As Peter said already steer clear of the 'complete disco setup' sales - the gear always seems to be shonky overpriced TAT.

[djxkott]

Valuable advice, thank you guys.

I’ll be using a pc with carrots virtualturntables. I used to use this software back in the day. I’ve looked at quite a lot of other software available now but it’s all so commercialised. but I’m back on this VTT, it’s second nature for me to use it considering I ain’t touched it for years.

My music collection has manage to survive emigrating and moving house several times, I have about 2tb of artists and mixes.

and I still have custom mp3s and cue / samples all still backed up, in my younger years I use to record myself with audition then some nights just play the recording and spend the night chatting. Back than nightclubs were so much different.

Literally within 10 minutes of reinstalling it, it all came back to me and I was reliving my younger years with the belters from the late 90s.

Haha

I’ve been quoted about £200 to rent a system,

Here is last quote I got


600 watt PA system - 2 x Electro-Voice ZLX12P 300 watt active speaker £75
1300 watt PA system - 2 x Electro-Voice ZLX12P 300 watt active speaker & 1 x ELX118P 700 watt active sub £100

Lighting T-bar stand with 3/4 standard disco lights £50

Now I’ve never heard of electro-voice I will research them and probably get the most powerful. There’s going to be about 200 people.

My budget to buy, well as little as possible. But I’d say £1000

But agreed I should buy new, I just saw those full setups and I guess felt intrigued I could start a business cheap .

I have seen some McKay thumps, they seem to have a lot of good press but I guess it ultimately comes down to hearing them.. and that lays the problem. I can hear them in a shop, confined & everything sounds perfect. out there in a big room it’s going to be a different story.

I think I will go with your advice and rent, see what happens with the gear.

So thank you guys for your insight, it would have been extremely embarrassing spending money on system having a great night and then it dying!

[djxkott]

Wow. I just spent a good 15 minutes writing a story and it hasn’t posted it..

ugh frustration!

I’ll try again at dinner!

[Nakatomi]

My first rig for coming back to DJing was as follows:

2nd hand Mackie Srm450 £320 the pair
Equinox GIGBAR.. £250 b stock
Speaker stands £30 the pair new
6 metre XLR cables X2.. about £10 new
Used Ultimax booth .. £150
Folding front panel screen £100 new
Various mains extension cables & power cables £60
2x new Equinox Power Flower.. £300 new
Lighting stands X2. About £50 new
Various bags & cases to protect equipment.. £130 new
Small Haze machine, new. £120

A shade under 1500 quid all told. I already had a DJ controller & mixer BTW

The most important, and most used light in my rig has been wash lighting (from the gigAbar when I still had it) The most overlooked & underused kind of lighting available. It's easily the cheapest & most effective way to bring colour & atmosphere to any function. These days I wouldn't be without my lovely FX Par 9 clones from Thomann. There's not a venue I've met they didn't succeed in swamping in vibrant bright colours.

[Nakatomi]

Now then .. PLAYOUT.

If you're planning to use a laptop bear this in mind. While many laptop DJs plug their laptop directly into a mixer, DON'T.

Minijack plugs can easily break in sockets and audio sockets on laptops aren't the most sturdy, so AVOID going this way. That's not even mentioning how terrible a lot of internal laptop audio sounds! Instead either buy a USB soundcard or a DJ controller with a built-in soundcard.

Oh & whatever you plan on using to play music, make sure you have an alternative you can use if the primary one goes belly up!! I've done hundreds of gigs with my trusty laptop & controller but never go anywhere without a spare controller and laptop. I've had to use my backup for a whole gig once , and thank the Lord I had it or I'd have been stuffed. Remember, you might not only have to refund your fee should the worst happen.. they might look for you to pay for your replacement too - or at least the difference ( and oh how emergency DJs can GOUGE).

[Marc J]

Wow. I just spent a good 15 minutes writing a story and it hasn’t posted it..

ugh frustration!

I’ll try again at dinner!

To prevent potential spammers slipping through the net, any new user's first posts are placed in the moderation queue. They're usually approved fairly quickly, which I have done now for your earlier posts. This moderation "safety net" is removed after 10 posts.

[Excalibur]

To prevent potential spammers slipping through the net, any new user's first posts are placed in the moderation queue. They're usually approved fairly quickly, which I have done now for your earlier posts. This moderation "safety net" is removed after 10 posts.

Since I'm quoting the new Head Honcho, I'll refrain from pointing out that in the past, the safety net has been somewhat erratic in its choice of targets, and I shall have to be vigilant checking for posts to approve.

Mackie/Tapco Thumps? Another one to put firmly on the Avoid list. SRM450, can be absolutely fine, especially the V2. Thump review. (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?36086-Tapco-Thump-eaten-alive-!!&highlight=EATEN+ALIVE)

[Nakatomi]

Good press about Mackie Thumps?! Where?! Seriously. Those things really aren't what they say they are. I know, I've had to fix a few. They're not terribly made, but they struggle to cope with crowds of 100 people flat out. Truth is, whatever rating Mackie write on the label is about 3.5x their real power. For up to 200 people hiring will be your best bet. You ain't gonna land new PA suitable for a crowd of that size for under a grand in my opinion.

[Benny Smyth]

If you're going down the buying route for lighting, I suggest buying the Chauvet Gigbar (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjl18WjsqrkAhUIzXcKHYlaA5sYABALGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRo_gvcBgxKnoIKsdyNuKeTlQ&sig=AOD64_3I-dZmpMX6SyvYmtf4FWqQwNXwsw&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiK2r6jsqrkAhUKPVAKHTuoAhkQ9aACCGk&adurl=).

An all in one DJ lightshow that will take you seconds to set up and will be more than good enough for any DJ starting from scratch. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have one now but were I to be starting up today, I'd seriously consider it...

Then I'd look at hiring PA until I have a decent budget to buy as £600-700 for sound will be the biggest waste of money you'll ever make.

[mattydj50]

I'll add my two penn'oth as an ancient old git (in training).

All what's been said previously is excellent advice as I would expect from the disassembled brains trust on here.

Not yet mentioned here yet is the Public Liability Insurance requirement that you will be asked for in the "live" world and the Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) that also is a vital need these days.

If all your kit for the one off is hired in, it should already be PAT tested (don't hire if it isn't). If you are buying brand new, it is not necessary (though desirable) and if 2nd hand, make sure it has an up to date certificate.

If you are thinking long term, virtually every venue now insists on both of these and will expect you to provide proof. You'd be surprised when booking you, how many public clients haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. PLI & PAT??

[djxkott]

My first rig for coming back to DJing was as follows:

2nd hand Mackie Srm450 £320 the pair
Equinox GIGBAR.. £250 b stock
Speaker stands £30 the pair new
6 metre XLR cables X2.. about £10 new
Used Ultimax booth .. £150
Folding front panel screen £100 new
Various mains extension cables & power cables £60
2x new Equinox Power Flower.. £300 new
Lighting stands X2. About £50 new
Various bags & cases to protect equipment.. £130 new
Small Haze machine, new. £120

A shade under 1500 quid all told. I already had a DJ controller & mixer BTW

The most important, and most used light in my rig has been wash lighting (from the gigAbar when I still had it) The most overlooked & underused kind of lighting available. It's easily the cheapest & most effective way to bring colour & atmosphere to any function. These days I wouldn't be without my lovely FX Par 9 clones from Thomann. There's not a venue I've met they didn't succeed in swamping in vibrant bright colours.


Wow mate you got a cracking deal on those smr450s.
I tell you what they actually look the part too.

I’m Currently looking at brand new v3 pair with stands and bag for £650
Ive addded those to my cart, just looking at displays now, I’ve got a month yet so I think I will build my own.

I’m not keen on this new lark that seems to be popular now, little white cloth front with LED..
I dunno it looks a bit tacky..
I miss the old heavy light box’s with the old bulbs, but I guess that’s more to transport around so I will spend some time doing that..

Thanks for your list I will go over it and the rest with a fine comb..


To prevent potential spammers slipping through the net, any new user's first posts are placed in the moderation queue. They're usually approved fairly quickly, which I have done now for your earlier posts. This moderation "safety net" is removed after 10 posts.

Ahh I see thanks for clearing that up. Makes perfect sense


I'll add my two penn'oth as an ancient old git (in training).

Hahah


I'll add my two penn'oth as an ancient old git (in training).

All what's been said previously is excellent advice as I would expect from the disassembled brains trust on here.

Not yet mentioned here yet is the Public Liability Insurance requirement that you will be asked for in the "live" world and the Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) that also is a vital need these days.

If all your kit for the one off is hired in, it should already be PAT tested (don't hire if it isn't). If you are buying brand new, it is not necessary (though desirable) and if 2nd hand, make sure it has an up to date certificate.

If you are thinking long term, virtually every venue now insists on both of these and will expect you to provide proof. You'd be surprised when booking you, how many public clients haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. PLI & PAT??

Thanks for this. I was told by the venue renter pat testing is essential. I have found a decent chap nearby who charges £10 call out and £1 an item. Which to be fair seems not too bad a price.

im assuming this is yearly requirement.

I wonder if brand new stuff already comes with pat certificate?

[Marc J]

Ahh I see thanks for clearing that up. Makes perfect sense

:) :beer1:

I've also merged your 4 posts above. There's a multi-quote feature, just use the 18750 icon at the bottom right of every post you want to quote.

[djxkott]

:) :beer1:

I've also merged your 4 posts above. There's a multi-quote feature, just use the 18750 icon at the bottom right of every post you want to quote.

Thanks, sorry it’s been a while since I used a forum too! Haha

[Nakatomi]

I dunno about srm450 mk3 having never used or known anyone who's used them, so be wary. Mackie started changing stuff (allegedly moving everything to cheap as chips production) after the mk1. That said, everything these days is built to a price & there isn't much that isn't made in China nowadays. But there's Chinese & there's Chinese you wouldn't touch with someone else's, if you know what I mean ;)

Where srm450 mk3 sit on that scale I dunno. About everyone I know has a tale of woe about their not-very-old active speaker going wonky or exploding into flames across many brands from dB to Mackie to FBT & Yamaha. Even my old Altos needed new woofers twice (both user error mind).

[djxkott]

If you're going down the buying route for lighting, I suggest buying the Chauvet Gigbar (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjl18WjsqrkAhUIzXcKHYlaA5sYABALGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRo_gvcBgxKnoIKsdyNuKeTlQ&sig=AOD64_3I-dZmpMX6SyvYmtf4FWqQwNXwsw&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiK2r6jsqrkAhUKPVAKHTuoAhkQ9aACCGk&adurl=).

An all in one DJ lightshow that will take you seconds to set up and will be more than good enough for any DJ starting from scratch. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have one now but were I to be starting up today, I'd seriously consider it...

Then I'd look at hiring PA until I have a decent budget to buy as £600-700 for sound will be the biggest waste of money you'll ever make.

Thanks for this, those lights look insanely powerful for the size. (V2) Jesus in the old days that was a lot of lugging and setting up. Do you think if I got one now and another in the future they’d pair up and work
Together?

[Excalibur]

And once you've got over the shock of PAT and PLI, we'll tell you about Produb! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

[Imagine]

And once you've got over the shock of PAT and PLI, we'll tell you about Produb! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

Would you talk to your mother with that mouth! Go wash it out with soap....coming on 'ere talking such filth :whistle::Naughty:

[djxkott]

And once you've got over the shock of PAT and PLI, we'll tell you about Produb! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

Im going to try and avoid that till I’m on my feet :o

[Excalibur]

Right, I've taken the tablets, and I've got a minute or two spare.

Gigbar? Marmite. Love 'em, or hate'em. They're blindingly ugly in the daylight, and superb in the dark. It's a one box lightshow, quick and easy to set up, and yes, two will sync up no problem. Cheaper versions are hitting the market, and they are not bad.

PAT testing new gear? Grey area. Just cos it's new doesn't mean it will pass/doesn't need a PAT test. In practice, many of us don't get them tested until the annual test. Grey area.

PA. I will take issue with my learned friend Benny over the need to spend huge sums of money to get a decent PA. I have found many places selling RCF 315s for below £800 a pair. They wouldn't be my all time favourite cab, but in my humble opinion, they'd beat the Mackie 450s. We always recommend not buying speakers until you've heard them. Sound is personal, and I can name people whose ears are 180 degrees out of phase with mine.

[Benny Smyth]

PA. I will take issue with my learned friend Benny over the need to spend huge sums of money to get a decent PA. I have found many places selling RCF 315s for below £800 a pair. They wouldn't be my all time favourite cab, but in my humble opinion, they'd beat the Mackie 450s. We always recommend not buying speakers until you've heard them. Sound is personal, and I can name people whose ears are 180 degrees out of phase with mine.

Did I say huge sums needs to be spent, or did I say £600 on PA is a waste of money? You need to pay off those tablets - they're effecting your eyesight. :lol:

[Nakatomi]

My 400 quid a pair Alto Ts115A stood me in reasonably good stead for ages. Were they brilliant? NO. Did they do the job? Hmmmmmmm maybe just for crowds of up to 100 adults. Thing is, they were only just decent enough so as not to sound too offensive at high volumes. Spend double that & you're on much more solid ground. In my experience, cheap speakers sound like muck compared to dearer ones, once you've got them away from demo circumstances & have gigged them. Cheap models' sound really falls apart at higher volumes after an hour or so.

I spent 3x what I paid for the altos when I upgraded. The differences are STAGGERING at gigs but in a quick A/B test you could easily question why you'd want to spend that much more money. I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow a pair to try, but as soon as I got home I clicked BUY. 1200 quid? Pah! I'd made up my mind long before I'd finished the gig.

Hire first & save so you can afford to buy better than cheap, sooner. Then you won't need to upgrade for quite some time.

[Excalibur]

Did I say huge sums needs to be spent, or did I say £600 on PA is a waste of money? You need to pay off those tablets - they're effecting your eyesight. :lol:

And you need to lay off that posh gin, it's affecting your spelling. :p:D We're splitting hairs, Benny. ( And I've got precious few left as it is :( ) I was very surprised to find that you could get RCF cabs, cables and tripods brand new for less than £800 per pair.

I'd thus say that for example, a trusted secondhand pair of 15" RCFs could be regarded as a wise investment. There's a pair of 715s on Ebay currently bidding at around £650, and 712s at £550 buy it now. I'd use either of those for a wide range of gigs.

BUT: Both those referred to are Mk2s and thus a tad long in the tooth. Sadly, we don't know what sort of a life they've had. The eternal conundrum, the safety of a brand new lesser grade product, or the risk of a higher grade secondhand one? :confused:

[DJ Jules]

I've still got a pair of MK1 422a's that are going strong after 8 years and I very rarely see the limit lights on them :D

On the Alto's.... I picked up a pair of TS212's (because they were white) and I'm pleasantly surprised at how robust they are, how they sound and how capable they are (in terms of output). That said, I hired them out last NYE and they came back with a fried tweeter so you do have to be very careful how hard you push them. I'm not planning on using them without a sub for anything that I think might stress them (that's anything more than 40-50 people in a small venue). As Justin has said though, for £600 notes - they're fine.

RCF312's/315's are good for the money and will be a good, reliable PA. FBT also do a strong entry level range of 12" cabs for around the same money (either the J series or X-Lite, both for around the £700-£800 mark). The advice everyone has given so far here is solid, listen before you buy and avoid eBay packages (they're generally full of tat that'll make you want to throw it away within a few weeks).

Julian

[Excalibur]

To a great extent, I agree with Julian. I've had 2 series Alto cabs, and the best ones to have were the really early model 1 series ( before a very obvious design/manufacture change ) and now the 3 series. I'm wary of 2 series ( and I've owned them myself ) they need treating nicely.

A little tip re RCF numbering, the first digit is an indicator of amplifier size. Bigger number ( 5 or 7 ) more power than 3 or 4.

Second number, HF unit " throw". 1 is standard, 2 and 3 are more " pronounced", suited to bigger venues, and need a tad more EQing.

Third number, driver size. 5=15", 2=12", 0=10"and 8 doesn't mean 18", but 8".

I've got some 710s, and I love them to bits. Wouldn't use them without subs for anything big though. Before anyone says " define big ", I'd say they could cope with 100 people on their own. Maybe more, I haven't tried it.