CRAZY K SIGNING BACK IN FROM NORTHANTS WITH ALTO TS 112 PROBLEM

[CRAZY K]

Well hello again guys im still alive somehow despite going through a truly horrendous time for 18 months in the Divorce from Hell.

I have kept in touch with Peter ( Excalibur) and of course Marc on the Web Sites.

I hope you are all well on here.

Cant talk about my activities presently however I could do with some assistance on powered speakers, im really a passive person with my Peavey UL15s and PRO 15s
which unbelievably are still going strong after 10 and 15 years of punishment, just cannot blow them out !!!!!!!

My current issue is my son at my suggestion invested for his Rodeo Bull business in some Alto TS112 powered speakers which to be fair have been pretty good, however on the last gig they cut out after a few hours and would only work for short periods before cutting out again.

The operator believes its overheating and thinks the fan is not working.

Question--are the Alto 112s easy to pull to bits and work on ?

It looks like there are a lot of holding screws on the back panel and the fan is itself held by four screws.

If its just a replacement fan looks reasonably simple but if its the thermal cut out then count me out!

Then again my DJ shop were not certain if they could get spares--not good!

Any advice gratefully accepted, and experience of a similar problem this speaker--

ALAN
CRAZY K

[Marc J]

Can't help with your issue but just to say - welcome back! Almost 3 years between posts - maybe a new record? :eek:

[CRAZY K]

Can't help with your issue but just to say - welcome back! Almost 3 years between posts - maybe a new record? :eek:

I’ve had a few set backs 😫

But I like creating records 😀😀😀😀😀

At least I came back.

The Music kept me going.

Any ideas from anyone before I head off to the Disco repair shop at huge cost 🥺

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Can't help with your issue but just to say - welcome back! Almost 3 years between posts - maybe a new record? :eek:

I think we've had longer, but I'm not sure.
Re Alto TS 112, November 5th is imminent. ;) If Justin sees this, I'm sure he will concur.

The original Alto 1 series were superb. They then made a 1 series Mk2 which wasn't. Then the 2 series came along, and they were adequate if not thrashed, but did not like abuse at all. It seems that the new 3 series are very good, and decent value, probably their best yet.

I don't think you'll find spares easy to get for a 1 series, unless it's a generic part fitted to lots of other units.

What would I recommend? Well these (https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-DR112DSP-12-Active-Speaker-with-DSP/34F7) are getting very good reviews, and are in stock in York. You might perhaps be able to audition them closer to you. Keen price.

Here are your Alto 3 series (https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Alto-TS312-2000-Watt-Active-Speaker/2FOD) £50 each dearer than the Berrys.

And of course, the RCF 312 (https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/RCF-ART-312-A-MK4-Active-Speaker/20ZY), loved by many a DJ. I currently have some smaller 7 series RCF, and love them to bits.

Hope this helps. ( It may of course muddy the waters ). :daft:

Edit: Avoid TX like the plague. It's a budget version of a budget speaker. Bad news.

[Nakatomi]

The rear panel on Alto TS series cabs is a bit of a doddle to remove - just take all the screws out around the edges - they're all just normal posi ones. Now, be careful when lifting the amp plate out because there are cables running to the woofer & tweeter. Unplug the cables going to the speakers, noting which colours go where.

Getting at the fan is fairly straightforward. Locate the red & black cable the fan is powered from & unplug it from the amplifier module. Make a careful note of where it plugs into. Then you can undo four little screws to remove the amplifier from the plate it's mounted on.. and then you should be able to get at the fan unhindered. It's a 60mm 12 volt fan & just about any of the same dimensions will do (I'd buy one from RS components if I were you, not ebay!). If you have a 12 volt power supply you can test the fan on, try that to determine if it's the problem.

By the sounds of things, the fan not working is the most likely cause of your operator's woes.

As for my views on Alto cabs.. the TS1xx series were amazingly good value for money if you treated them right. The woofers didn't like mechanical shocks & they sure as heck don't stand up to people running the cab on the limiter for long. With an upgraded driver from Blue Aran they can sound pretty punchy but the downside is a woofer with a decent power capacity weighs a darn sight more than the original factory fitted one. For a budget cab (I bought my TS115A ages ago for £400 including stands - the pair!) they're amazing. But are they GOOD? Hmmmm not really.

I've kept my TS115As on as backup for my RCF HD12As - I sold my SRM450 mk1s on the day after the RCFs arrived. I'm planning to upgrade the woofers in the altos by the end of the year though, just so they can take a bit more POWAH :)

[CRAZY K]

Many thanks Peter, not too encouraging regarding Bonfire fodder😀😀😀😀😀😀

We really live in a throwaway age, even for speakers which can’t be more than 3 or 4 years old.

Makes my Peavey Speakers look financially efficient although I haven’t got more than 6 years out of a Chinese amp which drives them apart from the non Chinese made Peavey XR600F Made in the US of A.

I am still running my 1970s H AND H MA 100 amp made in Cambridge.

Oh well I guess the modern Chinese made stuff is cheap compared to an equivalent UK brand even if it doesn’t last.

Any other ideas welcomed,

Best wishes,

ALAN
CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

The rear panel on Alto TS series cabs is a bit of a doddle to remove - just take all the screws out around the edges - they're all just normal posi ones. Now, be careful when lifting the amp plate out because there are cables running to the woofer & tweeter. Unplug the cables going to the speakers, noting which colours go where.

Getting at the fan is fairly straightforward. Locate the red & black cable the fan is powered from & unplug it from the amplifier module. Make a careful note of where it plugs into. Then you can undo four little screws to remove the amplifier from the plate it's mounted on.. and then you should be able to get at the fan unhindered. It's a 60mm 12 volt fan & just about any of the same dimensions will do (I'd buy one from RS components if I were you, not ebay!). If you have a 12 volt power supply you can test the fan on, try that to determine if it's the problem.

By the sounds of things, the fan not working is the most likely cause of your operator's woes.

As for my views on Alto cabs.. the TS1xx series were amazingly good value for money if you treated them right. The woofers didn't like mechanical shocks & they sure as heck don't stand up to people running the cab on the limiter for long. With an upgraded driver from Blue Aran they can sound pretty punchy but the downside is a woofer with a decent power capacity weighs a darn sight more than the original factory fitted one. For a budget cab (I bought my TS115A ages ago for £400 including stands - the pair!) they're amazing. But are they GOOD? Hmmmm not really.

I've kept my TS115As on as backup for my RCF HD12As - I sold my SRM450 mk1s on the day after the RCFs arrived. I'm planning to upgrade the woofers in the altos by the end of the year though, just so they can take a bit more POWAH :)

Many thanks for that, my son does have the TS 115s as well.

I have an Account with RS.

Will have a go and see if fan is not working, glad I bought a new powered screwdiver looking all those screws on the backplate.

[Nakatomi]

Many thanks for that, my son does have the TS 115s as well.

I have an Account with RS.

Will have a go and see if fan is not working, glad I bought a new powered screwdiver looking all those screws on the backplate.

Power screwdriver - fine for removing but probably not for replacing the screws unless you're careful with the torque ;)

[Nakatomi]

Many thanks Peter, not too encouraging regarding Bonfire fodder

We really live in a throwaway age, even for speakers which can’t be more than 3 or 4 years old.

Makes my Peavey Speakers look financially efficient although I haven’t got more than 6 years out of a Chinese amp which drives them apart from the non Chinese made Peavey XR600F Made in the US of A.

I am still running my 1970s H AND H MA 100 amp made in Cambridge.

Oh well I guess the modern Chinese made stuff is cheap compared to an equivalent UK brand even if it doesn’t last.

Any other ideas welcomed,

Best wishes,

ALAN
CRAZY K
One reason we live in a throwaway age is that modern gear simply isn't as readily repairable as it used to be. Either it's put together in inscrutable ways (as most phones & tablets are now) or else you can't buy replacement components from reputable sources.

I've had countless ADJ inno pocket fixtures on my bench for repair with exploded power supplies. I'm quite a dab hand fixing switch mode PSUs now but I tend to opt to swap a dud with a suitable equivalent & usually end up making a custom mounting plate for it. Some of the original ones just aren't worth fixing - the reason they failed in the first place is generally because the manufacturer took too many shortcuts. It's getting to be the same with active speakers now. Mackie, JBL, wharfdale, Ev & Yamaha spring to mind.

Lots of my mates have had FBT cabs blow up, leading me to split the TLA thus:. EFFING BLOWN TRANSISTORS.

[Excalibur]

I don't think you'll find spares easy to get for a 1 series, unless it's a generic part fitted to lots of other units.




It's a 60mm 12 volt fan & just about any of the same dimensions will do (I'd buy one from RS components if I were you, not ebay!). If you have a 12 volt power supply you can test the fan on, try that to determine if it's the problem.

By the sounds of things, the fan not working is the most likely cause of your operator's woes.

You will note that I tempered my prognostications of doom with the proviso that you could be lucky and fit a non OEM part. The bonus is that you may be able to actually upgrade the part by fitting a non original one.


Power screwdriver - fine for removing but probably not for replacing the screws unless you're careful with the torque ;)
Or unless you understand what the numbers on the torque ring mean. :p:)



Lots of my mates have had FBT cabs blow up, leading me to split the TLA thus:. EFFING BLOWN TRANSISTORS.
Ooooh Justin! :sofa: How can you say that? You'll have the fanboys up in arms. Don't you know how reliable* and superb they are?

* Mind you perhaps " reliable" isn't a suitable adjective for a three year old bass bin that's on its third amp module, and second driver. Its most impressive trick was blowing an amp when it wasn't even powered on! :eek: Yes Justin, I too know of FBT cabs which have been less than bulletproof. ;);)

[Benny Smyth]

I guess my FBTs must be unique in this scenario.

[Nakatomi]

I guess my FBTs must be unique in this scenario.

Not heard of a single case of CS1000 blowing up yet I'll grant you that. Nor anything else from the Vertus or Ventis range oddly enough.

X-pro & xlites on the other hand... Virtually everyone I know who's had them couldn't wait to get shot of them. They loved how they sounded (as did I tbh) but couldn't get on with them exploding for some reason...

[CRAZY K]

You will note that I tempered my prognostications of doom with the proviso that you could be lucky and fit a non OEM part. The bonus is that you may be able to actually upgrade the part by fitting a non original one.


Or unless you understand what the numbers on the torque ring mean. :p:)

Ooooh Justin! :sofa: How can you say that? You'll have the fanboys up in arms. Don't you know how reliable* and superb they are?

* Mind you perhaps " reliable" isn't a suitable adjective for a three year old bass bin that's on its third amp module, and second driver. Its most impressive trick was blowing an amp when it wasn't even powered on! :eek: Yes Justin, I too know of FBT cabs which have been less than bulletproof. ;);)

Thank you Justin and Peter for updating me on the active speaker scenario which I never quite got into, only briefly with a pair of old EVs which Daz sold me years ago
and which worked fine until one night one stopped working, sounded sweet for lower volume events.

Offloaded to a friend for £50.

As an official sound dinosaur I still like my passive Peavey set up despite the weight which I can live with, just have to keep replacing the overseas Amps
which cant keep up with my Corby Factory produced Peavey speakers.

Corby is in Northants for those who dont know.

I believe Dynacord produce some really excellent equipment according to a local Musician --pity I cant afford it just now!

Bit shocked about FBT as I was told they were brilliant by a friend who is a DJ, however maybe thats just the sound when they are actually working.

Going to get out the powered driver carefully and have a go, many thanks Justin for the detailed plan, pleased to confirm driver is not set for taking wheel nuts off cars :daft:

Will report back, thanks again,

ALAN

[Excalibur]

Not heard of a single case of CS1000 blowing up yet I'll grant you that. Nor anything else from the Vertus or Ventis range oddly enough.

X-pro & xlites on the other hand... Virtually everyone I know who's had them couldn't wait to get shot of them. They loved how they sounded (as did I tbh) but couldn't get on with them exploding for some reason...
I can not disagree with your findings. Much the same as my experience.


Corby is in Northants for those who dont know.

Bit shocked about FBT as I was told they were brilliant by a friend who is a DJ, however maybe thats just the sound when they are actually working.



They undoubtedly have the greatest number of afficionados eager to proclaim their virtues. They do indeed sound very very nice. As alluded to above though, I believe certain models are a tad " brittle", and prone to failure.
My favourites are the J series, and possibly the new J Max ( which I haven't heard yet ).

[Nakatomi]

I can not disagree with your findings. Much the same as my experience.



They undoubtedly have the greatest number of afficionados eager to proclaim their virtues. They do indeed sound very very nice. As alluded to above though, I believe certain models are a tad " brittle", and prone to failure.
My favourites are the J series, and possibly the new J Max ( which I haven't heard yet ).

I like how most fbt speakers sound - and indeed rcf etc but I much prefer a less stylised look... which is how I came to splurge 1600 quid on my RCF HD12A tops. I wasn't about to gamble on the newer Altos - and lower end Ev & Yamahas are best avoided... Brittle amplifier syndrome again (not forgetting abject lying specs).

Apparently the 'look' of rcf & fbt lines is dictated by their American market preferring cabinets that look like baboon's backsides rather than a nice sleek flat front. Sigh.

[CRAZY K]

I like how most fbt speakers sound - and indeed rcf etc but I much prefer a less stylised look... which is how I came to splurge 1600 quid on my RCF HD12A tops. I wasn't about to gamble on the newer Altos - and lower end Ev & Yamahas are best avoided... Brittle amplifier syndrome again (not forgetting abject lying specs).

Apparently the 'look' of rcf & fbt lines is dictated by their American market preferring cabinets that look like baboon's backsides rather than a nice sleek flat front. Sigh.

As a passive speaker dinousar what is BAS Brittle Amplifier Syndrome?

Is this a Class D amp in an Active Cab that breaks down due to being gigged hard from town to town getting chucked about in cars and vans?

I thought EV would have been pretty sturdy---not that I have much experience of these makes other than some old EVs of mine which started playing up ( fair enough) and listening to an Elvis performer who was using Yamaha tops effectively enough.

The more I read about this the more im sticking to passives and expendable Chinese and Indonesian amps, although I dont know where my newly acquired
slave amp by Citronic is made:daft:

thanks

ALAN

[CRAZY K]

The rear panel on Alto TS series cabs is a bit of a doddle to remove - just take all the screws out around the edges - they're all just normal posi ones. Now, be careful when lifting the amp plate out because there are cables running to the woofer & tweeter. Unplug the cables going to the speakers, noting which colours go where.

Getting at the fan is fairly straightforward. Locate the red & black cable the fan is powered from & unplug it from the amplifier module. Make a careful note of where it plugs into. Then you can undo four little screws to remove the amplifier from the plate it's mounted on.. and then you should be able to get at the fan unhindered. It's a 60mm 12 volt fan & just about any of the same dimensions will do (I'd buy one from RS components if I were you, not ebay!). If you have a 12 volt power supply you can test the fan on, try that to determine if it's the problem.

By the sounds of things, the fan not working is the most likely cause of your operator's woes.

As for my views on Alto cabs.. the TS1xx series were amazingly good value for money if you treated them right. The woofers didn't like mechanical shocks & they sure as heck don't stand up to people running the cab on the limiter for long. With an upgraded driver from Blue Aran they can sound pretty punchy but the downside is a woofer with a decent power capacity weighs a darn sight more than the original factory fitted one. For a budget cab (I bought my TS115A ages ago for £400 including stands - the pair!) they're amazing. But are they GOOD? Hmmmm not really.

I've kept my TS115As on as backup for my RCF HD12As - I sold my SRM450 mk1s on the day after the RCFs arrived. I'm planning to upgrade the woofers in the altos by the end of the year though, just so they can take a bit more POWAH :)

Hi there, problems.

Got to removing the four screws holding the amplifier to the mounting frame, however that doesnt give direct access to the fan.

It requires the further removal of six further screws which hold the bottom of the amp casing to the upper casing, also can see the fan is held by a further 4 screws that are not accessible without removing the bottom section.

I can get external access without further messing about to the red and black thin wires that are the fan connection wires.

I am considering cutting these baring them and putting 12 volts across them to see if the fan rotates.

If it does work then its clearly something more complicated beyond my skills, if it doesnt work then hopefully further deassembling of the unit giving access to the fan FOR REPLACEMENT will be worthwhile.

Does this sound like a plan?

How would you put 12 volts across the fan?

I dont have any batteries but my local garage probably could do it for me as they work on 12 volts for cars of course.

I suppose I could use jump leads from my car battery ?

Advice appreciated.

many thanks,

ALAN

[Nakatomi]

A fan will likely run from a 9v battery so if you can contrive something with some paper clips to shove into the connector (to save cutting wires) try that. Or, I've been known to use a 12v mains adapter like one for my radio mic... Just make sure it's actually 12v with a multimeter before using it to test the fan :)

[CRAZY K]

A fan will likely run from a 9v battery so if you can contrive something with some paper clips to shove into the connector (to save cutting wires) try that. Or, I've been known to use a 12v mains adapter like one for my radio mic... Just make sure it's actually 12v with a multimeter before using it to test the fan :)

Well I got the amp section dismantled, four more screws than anticipated and had to drill and hacksaw a slot in one screw as it would NOT turn
---aaargh Chinese Products.

Did my apprenticeship on this rubbish repairing cars in the 60s whilst enjoying the music of the era !!!!!!

Did a 12volt test and fan appears dead, going to my garage for a 12 volt double check.

Pic enclosed.

Are these likely to be standard size screw fixings and 12v with wattage 0.34amps ?

I will probably go to RS components and pick up at Counter in Corby to make sure.

Any advice on purchasing ?

Many thanks,

ALAN
CRAZY K

[Retrodisco]

X-pro & xlites on the other hand... Virtually everyone I know who's had them couldn't wait to get shot of them. They loved how they sounded (as did I tbh) but couldn't get on with them exploding for some reason...

My Xlites are 3 years old now and 280 gigs in, and never a blip, I must be lucky. I never peak them though.

[Nakatomi]

Well I got the amp section dismantled, four more screws than anticipated and had to drill and hacksaw a slot in one screw as it would NOT turn
---aaargh Chinese Products.

Did my apprenticeship on this rubbish repairing cars in the 60s whilst enjoying the music of the era !!!!!!

Did a 12volt test and fan appears dead, going to my garage for a 12 volt double check.

Pic enclosed.

Are these likely to be standard size screw fixings and 12v with wattage 0.34amps ?

I will probably go to RS components and pick up at Counter in Corby to make sure.

Any advice on purchasing ?

Many thanks,

ALAN
CRAZY K

Right Alan you need a 12v 80 x 80 x 15mm fan, rated to spin at an airflow rate of at least 41.75 cubic feet per minute. The nearest RS stocks is 787-8945. The connections on this one are 3 wire but you'd ignore the yellow speed sensing wire. It should do the job okay - from my experience with Altos the fans don't run for long. One with lower airflow will likely run for longer is all & at any rate is better than a broken one!

[Nakatomi]

My Xlites are 3 years old now and 280 gigs in, and never a blip, I must be lucky. I never peak them though.

Running them flat out doesn't seem to be the common denominator. They usually explode at idle or low volume levels

[CRAZY K]

Many thanks for that, one point is that the plastic connecting block of the existing arrangement has only 2 wires, black and red which connects of course to the main circuit board by push fit.

The new item appears to have no plug supplied but simply three wire ends.

How do I deal with this incompatibility?

I could cut and join the red and black wires to existing plug lead OR can I buy a two pin plug and attach two wires on the new fan to it.

I dont seem to be able to remove the existing black and red wires from the existing plug by pulling.

Are they soldered in place or is it a permanent factory plug.

Would another answer be to see if the DJ shop can get a direct replacement fan from their Alto dealers?

Many thanks,

ALAN
CRAZY K

[Nakatomi]

Just snip the old fan wires & join onto the new ones.

Snip old fan wires about 2 inches from the plug. Slip 3mm 2:1 ratio heatshrink over wires. Strip wires, then prepare new fan wiring. Cut back yellow wire & place heatshrink over the end. Shrink the heatshrink. Then strip red & black wires. Twist red wire from fan to red wire on old cable. Solder & slide heatshrink over then heat to shrink the heatshrink. Do the same with the black wires. Then you should be good to go.

[CRAZY K]

Just snip the old fan wires & join onto the new ones.

Snip old fan wires about 2 inches from the plug. Slip 3mm 2:1 ratio heatshrink over wires. Strip wires, then prepare new fan wiring. Cut back yellow wire & place heatshrink over the end. Shrink the heatshrink. Then strip red & black wires. Twist red wire from fan to red wire on old cable. Solder & slide heatshrink over then heat to shrink the heatshrink. Do the same with the black wires. Then you should be good to go.

Great, dont have heatshrink but can make an effective safe join and blank off the yellow wire.

Will let you know when completed successfully,

Thanks again,

ALAN
CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Running them flat out doesn't seem to be the common denominator. They usually explode at idle or low volume levels

I know one that self destructed when it wasn't switched on!! :eek: :confused: Still working when it was switched off, dead when turned back on two days later.

[Nakatomi]

I know one that self destructed when it wasn't switched on!! :eek: :confused: Still working when it was switched off, dead when turned back on two days later.

Just foibles of the design Peter. The warranty replacement of amp modules must be costing them dearly & their designers will likely have a fix in the works. If they know what's good for them ;)

I'm testing a high power electronic switching doobrey at work at the moment & it's blown up a few times for seemingly innocent reasons but I suspect the heatsinking - namely insufficient contact between surfaces. The variations can't be measured with feeler guages and yet...

[CRAZY K]

Just snip the old fan wires & join onto the new ones.

Snip old fan wires about 2 inches from the plug. Slip 3mm 2:1 ratio heatshrink over wires. Strip wires, then prepare new fan wiring. Cut back yellow wire & place heatshrink over the end. Shrink the heatshrink. Then strip red & black wires. Twist red wire from fan to red wire on old cable. Solder & slide heatshrink over then heat to shrink the heatshrink. Do the same with the black wires. Then you should be good to go.

DISASTER STRIKES.

Got my garage to do a proper 12 volt test, THE FAN WORKS FINE ----AAAARGH!!!!

Is it time to visit the Bonfire Tonight with the speaker---:daft::daft::daft:

I assume its something like the thermal cut out not working.



I suppose we could buy a second hand active speaker on ebay to replace it if necessary?

I can always use the remaining speaker as a Passive!!!!

These ALTOS were bought in July 2014 so not too bad I guess.

Any ideas gratefully accepted.

thanks

ALAN
CRAZY K