Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Chat

[Benny Smyth]

I'm surprised that this isn't a thread already.

So this morning, I had my first client concern from a client about the Coronavirus. At the time of my reply, there were rumours about the Government restricting gatherings above a certain number. To me, that suggests mass gatherings as opposed to sub-200 people at the local wedding venue. If they were to ban smaller numbers, they would have to close a lot of pub and restaurants and the news would be dominated by landlords talking about the death of the industry akin to when the smoking ban was implemented.

I know what I have replied and what my contract terms are. This is a birthday party client and essentially I have said that if the Government dictates that you need to postpone your event, then we'll postpone. If it's on a date that I am available before the end of 2020, we'll just move the date. If I'm unavailable, then I'll have to refer to the cancellation fees (which, at this point, is full fee) but if I can resell the date, then I'll give a full refund.

This is the most 'middle ground' that I feel that I can achieve but when it comes to weddings, this may be a bit of tricky situation as dates later on in the year may not be available. As much as we try to prevent otherwise, we may fall foul of force majeure here.

[surround sounds]

Yes, we have the same problem. 3 events have been cancelled in April, and they said looking to change the date for later in the year. These are not wedding booking but award and corporative events

[Imagine]

I've had my first cancellation today as a result.

Waiting for the schools to close now and then the school discos will disappear too.

We're in for a hell of a tough year watching the news at the moment. They're saying the "peak" will be in around 3 months time.....just in time for Wedding Season starting properly.
As for contracts there's a video on Facebook from a solicitor who does a LOT of stuff in the wedding industry, and what she says happens in different circumstances is frightening to say the least.

[Imagine]

Aaaand there go another two :(

[rth_discos]

So far only one cancellation - before cancellations became a thing.

The first cancellation was a bit tenuous - it was a 007 black tie ball, that was scheduled around the date of the new 007 movie release.

With the movie being put back due to "careful consideration and thorough evaluation of the global theatrical marketplace", it seems they were ahead of what was happening.

Naturally, the black tie ball needed to be postponed too.

And I've had an email today from a client asking about their wedding in April. It seems they are keen for it to go ahead, but want to understand what happens in the event they are forced to postpone their wedding.

So in both cases, a postponement, rather than cancellation.

Fortunately, I've been focusing my attention on other areas over the past 24 months, and this was the first year where I've reduced my bookings as the income from my other venture has come in to replace it, so I've been fortunate in that respect.

But a bumpy year ahead (this will have a knock on effect for months, possibly years).

[Excalibur]

As a simple little soul, I have one main question.

Do we keep taking bookings? :confused: Is there a point, if we're possibly going to have to write them off later?

[Imagine]

As a simple little soul, I have one main question.

Do we keep taking bookings? :confused: Is there a point, if we're possibly going to have to write them off later?

I'm still taking them (well....the few that are getting in touch....enquiries seem to be somewhat of a very rare thing since the start of this week).

Remember, if either you or the client cancels, then standard cancellation terms as per your contract kick in. The biggest problem is going to be if the country goes into lock-down and effectively makes it illegal for any sort of social gathering. In that case, the contract becomes "frustrated", never existed and you have to return all monies (or that's what my solicitor has said at least). Looking around the FB groups, there's a LOT of people that don't seem to understand that side of things and Oh Boy are they in for a shock if the brown stuff properly hits the impeller!

Yes, I'm going to keep taking them because this thing WILL pass....eventually. It's not costing me anything to take the bookings, and if they cancel, I'm not actually losing anything technically. Besides if I don't take them, someone else will. I'd rather have them and potentially lose them, rather than get past this thing and have to pretty much start from scratch.

[Benny Smyth]

The thing that I'm finding most frustrating with this are all the DJs who have suddenly gotten themselves medical degrees, claiming that it's "just a cold!"

Yes, on the grand scale of things, Covid-19 is not the worst condition to have but as is true with a lot of things, you need to pay it the respect that it deserves because if Mother Nature suddenly decides accordingly, it'll have you.

[Imagine]

The thing that I'm finding most frustrating with this are all the DJs who have suddenly gotten themselves medical degrees, claiming that it's "just a cold!"

Yes, on the grand scale of things, Covid-19 is not the worst condition to have but as is true with a lot of things, you need to pay it the respect that it deserves because if Mother Nature suddenly decides accordingly, it'll have you.

Glad it's not only me that's finding that at the moment.

[ppentertainments]

Has anyone actually considered that it is not just restrictions etc that are the challenge !
What would you do if/when YOU catch the virus and will be off for at least 2 weeks ?

[Pazz]

Think the "middle ground" approach here is the best. It's certainly something similar that I'll be looking to get in my T&C's once I'm back up and running.

On a general note really hope not too many bookings are affected over the coming months.

[Imagine]

On a general note really hope not too many bookings are affected over the coming months.

Oh, they're being affected....in a big way. Two weddings and two school discos postponed in the past 48 hours, and I'm expecting more to come in the next few days as things get more serious.
Thankfully, they're only POSTPONED. They still want to use me, just waiting to confirm dates etc. for when this nightmare is finally over.

I'm lucky. I have reserves which I can use to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table (if it ever becomes available again....Sainsbury's tonight was frightening with empty shelves!). The dear lady wife also has a full time job. I know of plenty in the wedding industry (not just DJs but stationers, toggers, decorators) who are literally passing baked clay blocks at the moment.

Thankfully, kids party bookings (apart from the two school discos), don't seem to be taking a hit and appear at the moment to be business as usual. They're not my favourite parties, but money is money

It's going to be a case of weathering the storm and hoping things calm down sooner rather than later. Who knows, the tail end of 2020 could make it a bumper year :)

[Excalibur]

Who knows, the tail end of 2020 could make it a bumper year :)

Here come the Gloucester Old Spots again! :fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::fp::f p:

[Excalibur]

OK, despite doing my best to work on the principle that if I ignore the virus, it will leave me in peace, I have a suspicion it may not. As many of you know, I work with Penfold's " Legslappers", and all these gigs are reliant on ticket sales. Even before the virus scare hit, some weren't hitting high enough sales to go ahead, and I wonder if we may see people deciding to stay home, rather than buy tickets for something that may be cancelled anyway.

I hope not, but I'm not betting my life savings on it.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

OK, despite doing my best to work on the principle that if I ignore the virus, it will leave me in peace, I have a suspicion it may not. As many of you know, I work with Penfold's " Legslappers", and all these gigs are reliant on ticket sales. Even before the virus scare hit, some weren't hitting high enough sales to go ahead, and I wonder if we may see people deciding to stay home, rather than buy tickets for something that may be cancelled anyway.

I hope not, but I'm not betting my life savings on it.

Without being someone who takes a negative view on things and I hope I'm wrong but.......

People are going to be having their hours cut, losing their jobs etc... People are going to tighten the purse strings and I fear we'll have a knock on effect for future bookings, not just ones that we have in the diary now or are being considered.

Corporate events for example being a prime example. Can't be throwing a party if people are on zero hour contracts or had all their overtime slashed etc..

Thankfully we have a decent amount of weddings booked in the diary at present so I'm confident most if not all of those will go ahead (or moved to a later date) however I think next year will be iffy. We're not investing in any new kit for the near future as a result.

[Excalibur]

Without being someone who takes a negative view on things and I hope I'm wrong but.......

People are going to be having their hours cut, losing their jobs etc... People are going to tighten the purse strings and I fear we'll have a knock on effect for future bookings, not just ones that we have in the diary now or are being considered.

Corporate events for example being a prime example. Can't be throwing a party if people are on zero hour contracts or had all their overtime slashed etc..

Thankfully we have a decent amount of weddings booked in the diary at present so I'm confident most if not all of those will go ahead (or moved to a later date) however I think next year will be iffy. We're not investing in any new kit for the near future as a result.

Neil, I think you've pretty much called it correctly there. :agree:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Neil, I think you've pretty much called it correctly there. :agree:

8000 posts, one was bound to be correct ;)

[Pazz]

Oh, they're being affected....in a big way. Two weddings and two school discos postponed in the past 48 hours, and I'm expecting more to come in the next few days as things get more serious.
Thankfully, they're only POSTPONED. They still want to use me, just waiting to confirm dates etc. for when this nightmare is finally over.

I'm lucky. I have reserves which I can use to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table (if it ever becomes available again....Sainsbury's tonight was frightening with empty shelves!). The dear lady wife also has a full time job. I know of plenty in the wedding industry (not just DJs but stationers, toggers, decorators) who are literally passing baked clay blocks at the moment.

Thankfully, kids party bookings (apart from the two school discos), don't seem to be taking a hit and appear at the moment to be business as usual. They're not my favourite parties, but money is money

It's going to be a case of weathering the storm and hoping things calm down sooner rather than later. Who knows, the tail end of 2020 could make it a bumper year :)

Well I was hoping when I got back setup that I wouldn't needing to do as many kids parties as I used to. I guess that idea will be going out the window! As you say it is definitely going to be a case of money is money.

I also think you are right that people will eventually want to be letting their hair down and just partying particularly after all this self isolating. At the end of the day people cannot be trapped in their homes forever!

[Excalibur]

A local venue that has just returned to me with renewed interest in my services has postponed an 18th for April, and a wedding for July is under review.
I reckon probably the only events that may escape are the totally private " village hall " type gigs.

[Benny Smyth]

Current irritation level: Biblical

Reason: Facebook Posts From DJs

"Anyone else's enquiries dropped off?"

"Nah, not me, mate. I've had 10 enquiries today, 7 of them have booked, one is waiting to talk to her partner (they'll deffo book though), one is going to [use your imagination] me in lieu of payment and the other one only has a Sid budget. I'm propa, innit? Geezas like me have 5000 gigs a year and that's before I take into account my other DJs who only do 4000 gigs a year, but ya gotta start somewhere!"*

Gits.
















*possibly exaggerated for comedic effect...but not by much

[Imagine]

Current irritation level: Biblical

Reason: Facebook Posts From DJs

"Anyone else's enquiries dropped off?"

"Nah, not me, mate. I've had 10 enquiries today, 7 of them have booked, one is waiting to talk to her partner (they'll deffo book though), one is going to [use your imagination] me in lieu of payment and the other one only has a Sid budget. I'm propa, innit? Geezas like me have 5000 gigs a year and that's before I take into account my other DJs who only do 4000 gigs a year, but ya gotta start somewhere!"*

Gits.
















*possibly exaggerated for comedic effect...but not by much

Anyone who doesn't admit to enquiries dropping off is a complete and utter liar at the moment I'm afraid. Not just DJ's, ANYBODY in the leisure industry.

I'd been doing very nicely until last weekend when everything went apocolyptic, at least a couple of enquiries a day and things were finally starting to look up. I've had just ONE enquiry this week - ONE! (and I was already booked for her wedding date next March :mad:)

I'm spending more time at the moment explaining my C-19 contingency plan to panicking brides than anything else (and that's changing daily as the situation develops).
Are we nearly there yet?

[Imagine]

As an aside to the current panic....I had a really nice and sensible conversation on the phone this evening with a prospective bride (she'll book....it's in the bag and has been for a while).

The conversation started along the lines of "what are your contingency plans?"......oh gawd....how many times in the past few days?

She HAS insurance and it covers the current outbreak (believe me...she's checked!). Just for once, I have a bride who is on the ball, understands the potential pitfalls such as me falling ill or the government stopping such events and was completely happy with everything I told her. Come this time tomorrow, it'll be another pay-day in the bag :) (so long as it's not cancelled)

MY own personal view...this will be done and dusted by around June and will actually be treated similar to the average seasonal cold or flu. The Belgians are already apparently testing an antivirus (hooray!!!!)

Bragging aside though, there are a LOT of very worried brides and grooms out there at the moment (and quite rightly so)

My own personal policy is to coerce them into rescheduling as opposed to cancelling (it won't cost them any more money but retains and existing customer which is much easier than trying to find a new one isn't it?). Obviously if they cancel, my T&C's kick in and that's that - no mercy.

Something I've seen on Social Media though is suppliers contacting their customers directly "with what will happen if..." scenarios (i.e. trying to get them to reschedule rather than cancel)

Good idea or not? It might show that we're thinking about them, but on the same score might encourage them to try to cancel, mightn't it?

[DJ Jules]

Something I've seen on Social Media though is suppliers contacting their customers directly "with what will happen if..." scenarios (i.e. trying to get them to reschedule rather than cancel)

Good idea or not? It might show that we're thinking about them, but on the same score might encourage them to try to cancel, mightn't it?

NOT a good idea. At present, all events are on until told otherwise by the government or the venue and the picture could change very quickly, invalidating any advice you've given and confusing customers further. I've just seen someone post on FB with a copy of the email they've sent clients that says they're now operating on a "cash on the day" basis (basically allowing anyone to pull the plug on their event at the last minute with no repercussions) - possibly the worst business decision ever.

I'm dealing with customers on a cases by case basis. Different parties and venues are impacted in different ways by the virus and also have different levels of impact on my business. I've heard of one venue that has had to pull all of their dates until the risk is reduced because it's a mansion house with a care home with high risk residents sharing the same spaces as events!! Another local venue is a school by day, so there's a higher risk of student infection and part or all of the student body and/or the venue having to be isolated so they're thinking hard about their position. Some couples may already have issues with family being able to attend from abroad, which may have a huge impact on attendance for key people if one partner is from Europe, America, etc. On the flip side, others may have mostly local guests, be hiring a local hall and using a local caterer and current affairs may have a relatively minimal impact. Kids parties seem to be largely unaffected at present but I'm fully expecting school discos to be pulled for the next few months. I'm happy to allow any of the kids parties to cancel or reschedule without argument because they're kids (and also relatively low impact on my income).

On the other side, I've just had my customer for next Sat (21st) try and reschedule because of people dropping out due to fears and I've told her in no uncertain terms that my cancellation terms kick in automatically and she loses the whole fee if she cancels or reschedules. She then tried to imply that the venue might pull out and I was able to tell her that I found that unlikely and that they would probably take the same stance as me right now. I.e. The party happens, or she pays everyone in full for nothing. Funnily enough, the venue did take that position to try and cling on to income while they can and now the party is going ahead as planned.

The reality right here, right now is that Bristol/Bath have had a handful of reported cases across the two regions and there is currently minimal impact on supply chains and very low risk of infection, so there is no good reason why parties for this week should be affected. When that changes I'll happily reconsider my message and my approach to cancellations.

It's actually quite lucky that I have a retirement party for one of the local NHS trust CEO's this coming Friday and he happily confirmed that he's still going ahead on Saturday! That is a message that gives people some confidence.

Julian

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Current irritation level: Biblical

Reason: Facebook Posts From DJs

"Anyone else's enquiries dropped off?"

"Nah, not me, mate. I've had 10 enquiries today, 7 of them have booked, one is waiting to talk to her partner (they'll deffo book though), one is going to [use your imagination] me in lieu of payment and the other one only has a Sid budget. I'm propa, innit? Geezas like me have 5000 gigs a year and that's before I take into account my other DJs who only do 4000 gigs a year, but ya gotta start somewhere!"*

Gits.
















*possibly exaggerated for comedic effect...but not by much

To be fair, I've noticed a upturn in very warm enquiries the past few days, people paying off hefty balances for their upcoming weddings and all that (which I'm surprised about) and no cancellations (though I'm sure that will change soon). Not sure if people are trying to pay stuff off and have the "business as usual" mindset.

That said I know the sorts you mean and I think most people can see through that.




Good idea or not? It might show that we're thinking about them, but on the same score might encourage them to try to cancel, mightn't it?

I've seen the same copy and pasted message from so many companies now it's just white noise. I've not put out an email or public statement because nobody knows how it's going to effect us (they'll be restrictions put in place soon I should think).

If people ask it's the same as most, we wait and see (as it stands it's business as usual).

[ppentertainments]

A local venue that has just returned to me with renewed interest in my services has postponed an 18th for April, and a wedding for July is under review.
I reckon probably the only events that may escape are the totally private " village hall " type gigs.
I actually had a thought about that - although we don't know, the assumption is all gatherings over 100 are cancelled together with pubs etc YET village halls can keep open.

Surely a pub/venue should be allowed to open for private functions under 100 in that case ??

To be honest, I think no matter what is imposed on us, people will get fed up after a couple of weeks and defy any restriction.

[DJ Jules]

Boris just screwed us all over by advising that people avoid social gatherings wherever possible, while avoiding banning them altogether. Meaning we're kind of in a limbo where events could go ahead, but event cancellation insurance doesn't kick in. He implied that he has powers to ban gatherings, but kind of tried to play it cool by telling us we're all responsible adults and didn't need those kind of measures to be put in place.

He also screwed over public events by withdrawing support from emergency services, but not banning the events from happening.

That changes my position.

Julian

[Imagine]

Just been watching a live feed from Stanford Gould solicitors, and Heather is of the opinion (as someone who knows the law), that although he "advised" avoiding social gatherings, it should effectively be read as a ban.
She seems to think that we're now in Force Majeure territory and that weddings and parties can't take place for the time being. It may even be (and I need to check this one properly) that your PLI will not cover you if you supply the entertainment at a wedding or party and something goes wrong.

Very worrying times indeed......

[rth_discos]

Just been watching a live feed from Stanford Gould solicitors, and Heather is of the opinion (as someone who knows the law), that although he "advised" avoiding social gatherings, it should effectively be read as a ban.
She seems to think that we're now in Force Majeure territory and that weddings and parties can't take place for the time being. It may even be (and I need to check this one properly) that your PLI will not cover you if you supply the entertainment at a wedding or party and something goes wrong.

Very worrying times indeed......

Just to confuse things a bit...

https://www.shearman.com/perspectives/2020/03/covid-19--force-majeure-event

[Nakatomi]

Just been watching a live feed from Stanford Gould solicitors, and Heather is of the opinion (as someone who knows the law), that although he "advised" avoiding social gatherings, it should effectively be read as a ban.
She seems to think that we're now in Force Majeure territory and that weddings and parties can't take place for the time being. It may even be (and I need to check this one properly) that your PLI will not cover you if you supply the entertainment at a wedding or party and something goes wrong.

Very worrying times indeed......

Found the vid here: https://www.facebook.com/StanfordGould/videos/201277587955562/ & thanks for the tip Wayne :) Very interesting viewing indeed.

For now as far as I'm concerned it's business as usual until there's an outright ban or a venue cancels an event. After that.. work with clients to try to make it a postponement as opposed to a cancellation & all the hassle that entails.. oh & to try & stay well so I can keep my side of the bargain of course.

[rth_discos]

Found the vid here: https://www.facebook.com/StanfordGould/videos/201277587955562/ & thanks for the tip Wayne :) Very interesting viewing indeed.

For now as far as I'm concerned it's business as usual until there's an outright ban or a venue cancels an event. After that.. work with clients to try to make it a postponement as opposed to a cancellation & all the hassle that entails.. oh & to try & stay well so I can keep my side of the bargain of course.

The video was TLDR for me, however this is a useful breakdown from the same person: https://www.stanfordgouldonline.co.uk/2020/03/16/frustration-of-a-contract-a-starting-point-faqs-and-some-help-for-you/

Unless it was in the video, it's still not clear if we're in the territory of Force Majeure yet. This area feels quite ambiguous at the moment. Unlike Spain, where a State of Alarm has been activated, and makes it much clearer, because public gatherings have been completely banned.

I think the key element is that we should only really be acting on events coming up in the next few weeks. Anything beyond this can't yet be covered by Force Majeure because we don't know what the situation will be like then. In which case, the standard contract terms apply. I'd suggest being flexible with moving a date.

On thing I've learnt today, is that apparently this year is quite busy for weddings. So couples looking to postpone their wedding might find it hard to book a Saturday later on in the year - so there's less risk of someone wanting to move an existing booking to date where you are already booked for another event. It's likely instead that they will simply move it to a midweek date. Anyone trying to contact you now about weddings a few months away that they want to postpone, might be worth gently making them aware of this - it might persuade them to either wait, or just go ahead with it unless forced to change the date.

Finally, I make it clear in my contract that the deposit paid is a booking fee and covers the setting up of the booking and access to the online planning software. This ensure that there is no ambiguity over what the deposit is for, and therefore makes it clear that it is non-refundable as services have already been provided at the early stage of the booking, which is a key aspect of determining what level of refund is available in the event of cancellation due to Force Majeure.

[Imagine]

I think this is all going to change dramatically in the coming days and they'll HAVE to say shut down.

Trying to type this without breaking forum rules on politics, but the whole statement from Boris is very poorly worded.
At the moment, there's one heck of a backlash going around because as things stand, the onus is on the CLIENT to cancel/postpone their event and insurance WON'T cover it. Had the gov actually mandated closure, it would have been a different story.

[Benny Smyth]

I
At the moment, there's one heck of a backlash going around because as things stand, the onus is on the CLIENT to cancel/postpone their event and insurance WON'T cover it. Had the gov actually mandated closure, it would have been a different story.

I think that the onus is on venues. We're all being told that social gatherings shouldn't go ahead and you just know, as we will, that venues who plod on waiting for some certainty will get a lot of stick for it from those looking in 'Cos they're not doing their bit to help contain.

And if the venues make the decision, do we as suppliers then need to chase them for our loss of earnings? I'm not saying we should and don't know if we can, but there is an argument to be had there.

One thing worth noting about the whole 'if the Government said "Shut down" then venues and clients can get paid through insurance under force majure' argument is that very few (If any) insurance companies will pay out under force majure - it's a cop out for many policies.

[Nakatomi]

I think that the onus is on venues. We're all being told that social gatherings shouldn't go ahead and you just know, as we will, that venues who plod on waiting for some certainty will get a lot of stick for it from those looking in 'Cos they're not doing their bit to help contain.

And if the venues make the decision, do we as suppliers then need to chase them for our loss of earnings? I'm not saying we should and don't know if we can, but there is an argument to be had there.

One thing worth noting about the whole 'if the Government said "Shut down" then venues and clients can get paid through insurance under force majure' argument is that very few (If any) insurance companies will pay out under force majure - it's a cop out for many policies.

It's a cop out for most contracts as far as I've learned today - and as far as I've also learned today can also affect us by frustrating contracts. In short, we're :Censored:

[DJ Jules]

Looks like we're in the realms of frustration of contract, rather than force majure. In the majority of circumstances I'd think that we are able to provide the service, but the event is being prevented by legal restrictions on gatherings (which is not our fault or the customers), then that pretty much fits the definition for frustration of contract. That's assuming that gatherings are effectively outlawed or the implications of the "advice" effectively equates to them being outlawed.

This does change the position with clients - if the venue says they're OK with going ahead, the government has only "advised" against gatherings and the customer pulls the event, then it's technically a straight out cancellation, not frustration of contract. If gatherings are outlawed, then it's frustration of contract and if the venue prevents the event going ahead then it's frustration of contract, but with potentially some liability sitting with the venue. I don't think clients are going to see the difference and, honestly, it's probably not worth risking my reputation to try and explain it to them to hold on to their money.

Julian

[Excalibur]

A local venue that has just returned to me with renewed interest in my services has postponed an 18th for April, and a wedding for July is under review.
I reckon probably the only events that may escape are the totally private " village hall " type gigs.
Me and my big mouth! :o:o Saturday I had a Village Hall gig. Cancelled last night. :(


I think this is all going to change dramatically in the coming days and they'll HAVE to say shut down.

Trying to type this without breaking forum rules on politics, but the whole statement from Boris is very poorly worded.
At the moment, there's one heck of a backlash going around because as things stand, the onus is on the CLIENT to cancel/postpone their event and insurance WON'T cover it. Had the gov actually mandated closure, it would have been a different story.

For a limited time, I expect the splendid and pragmatic moderation team on this forum to allow some leeway on what's posted, as obviously politics will have a huge impact on our lives and businesses here, in the current situation.


Of course, once this irritation has passed, we shall return to our former ways of strict adherence to the rules. :Naughty: I must say, I note with glee, a certain member on here bemoaning his workload on a DJ related forum, as he attempts to stem the tide of unsuitable and inadmissible material. :D

[ppentertainments]

Having slept on things, well for a couple of hours, I am actually now (in a selfish way) thinking maybe yesterdays announcement was actually good for us/me.

People are saying that if the government bans events insurance will kick in. What insurance is this ? Venues etc can get insurance, but as far as I am aware apart from income protection, there is nothing out there for US.

I personally have no insurance which will kick in, so as it stands my contracts still stand – if the government enforced measures, contracts are then null and void, with refunds compulsory.

On top of this, we all know what insurance companies are like and are bound to be 'exempt' from something as huge as this - let's face it, if they do then insurance companies will struggle which has similar effects to banks struggling.

Or am I missing something here ?

[Benny Smyth]

Looks like we're in the realms of frustration of contract, rather than force majure.

Force majeure is what creates the frustration of contract. It's not a separate thing, but one being the direct result of the other.

I've contacted my clients for the next four weeks to chat about options. As it stands:

- Two March weddings (fully paid) are planning on plowing ahead (we'll see how that plays out).
- Birthday party in April (fully paid) is postponing to post-summer.
- A wedding in April (balance outstanding) is yet to respond.
- The wedding following that in April (fully paid) are looking to postpone, pending conversation with the venue.

I'm going to try and steer them to weekday dates as much as I can. If they want to keep all of their suppliers, it'll more likely work if they do that.

Fingers crossed that it's the sharp up curve we are now experiencing, a couple of weeks of containment, a sharp down curve followed by the coronavirus being more of a pain in the ass for individuals over the spring and summer months. I dont think that it will work out that way, but I'm hoping.

[DJ Jules]

Force majeure is what creates the frustration of contract. It's not a separate thing, but one being the direct result of the other.

I based my comments on the description in the Shearman article, I can see the Stanford one contradicts it :confused:

So far I have three for the next few weeks looking to reschedule (one has already set a date on my advice), one the following weekend is still planning on going ahead and the venue is still insisting it's open for business! We'll see how that pans out :D

I'm having mixed signals about the kids parties - while they're all still together in school there's little argument for cancelling them.

Julian

[Imagine]

I'm having mixed signals about the kids parties - while they're all still together in school there's little argument for cancelling them.

Julian

I agree, and before the announcement yesterday confirmed to a couple of worried parents for parties in the next couple of weeks that I still intend to be there - on the proviso that the rules don't change and I wouldn't be breaking any laws.
That could (and I personally think WILL) change over the coming days.

I'm not contacting too many people until things become a little bit clearer, certainly no-one beyond April....yet. Most of mine are weddings and I can see that they'll look to either carry on (if allowed), or postpone.

Last night, UK Scouting closed ALL sections until further notice (so that's kids from 6-18 years old now with now't to do in Scouting and Girl Guiding).
My primary school has closed a couple of classes today as a couple of the teachers are isolating with a cough
My local sports and social club/village hall will be closing from Friday night

I'm lucky. Although this is now my full time job, we've always been careful and have savings to potentially get us through 12-18 months of this, although it will be tight. Add to this Liz works so there's at least something coming in.
The bit I'm more worried about having been to the shops today is that despite reassurances from the suits at the top....there really IS some sort of problem getting stuff onto the shelves. It's either that, or people have some very clever ways of panic buying which isn't looking too suspect and triggering the "you can't buy that much" routines at the checkouts. Even the cheap booze has now gone!

Today will be spent looking at how to trim down the outgoings on the business (not going to be easy). If we're in complete lockdown, the first expense to go until we're allowed out again will be PAT testing ( it's due in April and no point doing it until it's needed again), closely followed by some of the music subscriptions. Other than that, there's not really a lot else I can pare back on other than selling redundant kit.....and there's going to be a glut of that on the market shortly.

[Benny Smyth]

To add a bit of levity to all of this, I popped a short video onto my social media feeds this morning and I've had a lot of positive comments about it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bvyZkYtGqk

[DJ Jules]

To add a bit of levity to all of this, I popped a short video onto my social media feeds this morning and I've had a lot of positive comments about it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bvyZkYtGqk

:D:D:D

I've just sat in on a webcast with a bunch of supposed events industry professionals and based on the comments on the feed, the venues have their heads buried in the sand. Most are still talking about private (not corporate) events going ahead for weeks/months from now and seem to have no clue as to what's going on. They also seem to be blissfully unaware of the legal position they might be in.

Julian

[Imagine]

:D:D:D

I've just sat in on a webcast with a bunch of supposed events industry professionals and based on the comments on the feed, the venues have their heads buried in the sand. Most are still talking about private (not corporate) events going ahead for weeks/months from now and seem to have no clue as to what's going on. They also seem to be blissfully unaware of the legal position they might be in.

Julian

This is the problem. Because as the moment it's only ADVISORY, it's a no-win situation. Many of the big business are closing down now (cinema's etc according to BBC) and I'm hearing rumours (and they are only rumours) that the likes of 'spoons are about to follow suit.

Question....what happens if a guest can prove they've contracted the virus at one of these venues after they've been "advised" not to attend non-essential gatherings (and non-essential does sadly include everything we do). Is the venue then liable for possibly facilitating the spread of the virus? Would WE be partially liable (especially if we're able to carry on as normal and potential spread it from party to party without being aware we even have it?)

I'm desperately trying to find out about PLI at the moment and whether we're still covered. My stance at the moment is that if the party/wedding is still going ahead and that the venue are happy for that to happen, then I'll be there so long as I'm covered on the PLI front (because I'm not going to risk working without it). Bear in mind that a lot of my weddings happen in marquees in private grounds, it's a tricky situation.



To add a bit of levity to all of this, I popped a short video onto my social media feeds this morning and I've had a lot of positive comments about it:



Benny - you've got NO IDEA how much that's just cheered me up :)

[Nakatomi]

To add a bit of levity to all of this, I popped a short video onto my social media feeds this morning and I've had a lot of positive comments about it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bvyZkYtGqk

That was a genuine laugh out loud watch Benny!

Regarding anyone being able to prove they caught the virus from an event they attended... Unlikely unless they aren't the only one. Besides I think any court would go on the side of the plaintiff had already been advised to stay away - advice they wilfully ignored - case closed... Surely?

[rth_discos]

Question....what happens if a guest can prove they've contracted the virus at one of these venues after they've been "advised" not to attend non-essential gatherings (and non-essential does sadly include everything we do). Is the venue then liable for possibly facilitating the spread of the virus? Would WE be partially liable (especially if we're able to carry on as normal and potential spread it from party to party without being aware we even have it?)

I'm desperately trying to find out about PLI at the moment and whether we're still covered. My stance at the moment is that if the party/wedding is still going ahead and that the venue are happy for that to happen, then I'll be there so long as I'm covered on the PLI front (because I'm not going to risk working without it). Bear in mind that a lot of my weddings happen in marquees in private grounds, it's a tricky situation.


I don't like the line of people saying 'but this is just the flu', but ultimately that's what this is.

The Government has put the onus on US (population) to stay at home, rather than asking businesses to close.

So I can't see how you can sue Wetherspoons for getting Coronavirus, when you as an individual were advised to stay at home.

Equally, you wouldn't sue Wetherspoons from getting the flu from Janet in the booth next to you.

From what it appears, the insurers are unlikely to pay out on much at the moment.

Of course this is pretty much unchartered territory for us all.

[Excalibur]

and I'm hearing rumours (and they are only rumours) that the likes of 'spoons are about to follow suit.




Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!:cry::cry:

Not with a beer festival due at the end of the month!:eek:

Didn't I read that alcohol kills the virus? :confused: Mayhap a 'spoons is the safest place? :whistle:

OK, whimsy over, pull yourself together, man. Another booking hites the dust, venue is closing due to virus, so client and I are hoping to reschedule, maybe even next year!

And Benny: Many a true word...........I've travelled twenty miles, in a fruitless search for toilet paper. Good job I'm not yet crapping myself about losing bookings.:)

[DJColsie]

SIGN OF THE TIMES

As some of you may know, I work full time for Santander. I have always found them to be an excellent employer.

Usually in my branch we have between 8 and 13 people working at any one time. From next week it will be 4!! No in branch appointments (my usual job).

All staff will work 1 week on 1 week off with no drop in pay and our opening times will be 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday, NO SATURDAYS.

I am guessing we are the first of many!

[Imagine]

SIGN OF THE TIMES

As some of you may know, I work full time for Santander. I have always found them to be an excellent employer.

Usually in my branch we have between 8 and 13 people working at any one time. From next week it will be 4!! No in branch appointments (my usual job).

All staff will work 1 week on 1 week off with no drop in pay and our opening times will be 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday, NO SATURDAYS.

I am guessing we are the first of many!

Funny you should say that. I've just seen something I thought I'd NEVER see!
One of the local Tesco megastores (one of the biggest in the country) is to stop trading 24 hours and close at 10pm every night. They haven't given any reason for it, but I'm assuming it's to stop people trying to stockpile whilst they're trying to re-load the shelves

[mattydj50]

SIGN OF THE TIMES

As some of you may know, I work full time for Santander. I have always found them to be an excellent employer.

Usually in my branch we have between 8 and 13 people working at any one time. From next week it will be 4!! No in branch appointments (my usual job).

All staff will work 1 week on 1 week off with no drop in pay and our opening times will be 10am to 4pm Monday to Friday, NO SATURDAYS.

I am guessing we are the first of many!

My day job is as a Performance Analyst for DB Cargo Rail UK. All of us office wallahs have been told that, where we are able and have the equipment, we are to work from home for the foreseeable future. Luckily, I'm in that group as I have worked from home for 18 months due to my wife's arthritis and hip replacement. So for me, it's not too much of a problem. I do have a father-in-law who recently had pneumonia, and I also have a two week old granddaughter 3 doors away, so we do have concerns about their health being affected, possibly by us.

[Excalibur]

M I do have a father-in-law who recently had pneumonia, and I also have a two week old granddaughter 3 doors away, so we do have concerns about their health being affected, possibly by us.

Absolutely. You don't want to be going out and doing those discos, where all those germ ridden folk are invading your personal space. I'd stay at home, and pass 'em on to some poor unsuspecting Herbert. ;):whistle::D

[Imagine]

Absolutely. You don't want to be going out and doing those discos, where all those germ ridden folk are invading your personal space. I'd stay at home, and pass 'em on to some poor unsuspecting Herbert. ;):whistle::D


Like ME!!!!

#HaveVanWillingToTravel

[Excalibur]

Like ME!!!!

#HaveVanWillingToTravel

Watch it, Sonny. :Naughty: No way are you getting a visa to enter God's County. :p Anyone unable/unwilling to fulfil work is likely to have a wide choice of cover.


Wayne, I hate to admit it, but you were right about the severity of the effects of the virus. In the short term, it looks like it's no work at all. :(

[rth_discos]

Wayne, I hate to admit it, but you were right about the severity of the effects of the virus. In the short term, it looks like it's no work at all. :(

I think yesterday was the realisation for me that this isn't going anywhere quickly.

They're drawing up laws to have more control over a full lockdown.

I think April is out now, and possibly much of May.

Beyond that, I don't know. Maybe it's just the optimist in me that things June onwards should see some normality return, but it's just impossible to tell.

Certainly over the coming weeks, it looks like social contact restrictions are going to become more severe.

[Imagine]

I think yesterday was the realisation for me that this isn't going anywhere quickly.

They're drawing up laws to have more control over a full lockdown.

I think April is out now, and possibly much of May.

Beyond that, I don't know. Maybe it's just the optimist in me that things June onwards should see some normality return, but it's just impossible to tell.

Certainly over the coming weeks, it looks like social contact restrictions are going to become more severe.

Sadly I'm inclined to agree Gavin, but I think it's going to be much more severe than that. I can foresee in the next 7-10 days that we'll be in a similar situation to France.

I'm not actively taking on new bookings now unless the party falls from the start of September onwards just to save the hassle of going through the contact and cancel thing nearer the time. I have a very full July which I've not done anything with yet because I don't want to add to their panic. I may well contact them in a couple of weeks just to reassure them but really need to know what's going on first.

I have a couple of kids parties (both as far as I'm aware going ahead), and a tricky adult one (which I'm sort of hoping will cancel) between now and then. The rest for April, May & June have now been moved to alternative dates

[Marc J]

I'm in the very lucky position where both myself and my wife can (and often do, even before COVID-19 hit) work from home. As of this week that's full-time for the foreseeable future.

Today we took the decision to take our son (who's in S1) out of school. It seems the 3 main reasons for schools not closing at this stage are childcare problems it may cause; providing free meals to those that need it; and disruption for exams etc. None of which apply to us. With relatives in the "high risk" category we felt it was best, and the school are supporting any parents who come to the same decision. My son has his own PC, and all remote learning is already setup via Office 365. That said, he's currently on his PlayStation :eek:

I've got 3 school trips (which I volunteer to help on - each 4 days in the Highlands) in May & June - one of which (the latest) already cancelled and the other two highly unlikely to go ahead.

I really do feel for you guys having gigs cancelled, I realise that I (and my family) are "lucky" to be able to deal with it in the way that we can without (fingers crossed) too much impact. Trying to get elderly relatives to take it as seriously as we are is another matter altogether :bang:

Good luck out there guys, and above all stay safe!

[Imagine]

I'm in the very lucky position where both myself and my wife can (and often do, even before COVID-19 hit) work from home. As of this week that's full-time for the foreseeable future.

Today we took the decision to take our son (who's in S1) out of school. It seems the 3 main reasons for schools not closing at this stage are childcare problems it may cause; providing free meals to those that need it; and disruption for exams etc. None of which apply to us. With relatives in the "high risk" category we felt it was best, and the school are supporting any parents who come to the same decision. My son has his own PC, and all remote learning is already setup via Office 365. That said, he's currently on his PlayStation :eek:

I've got 3 school trips (which I volunteer to help on - each 4 days in the Highlands) in May & June - one of which (the latest) already cancelled and the other two highly unlikely to go ahead.

I really do feel for you guys having gigs cancelled, I realise that I (and my family) are "lucky" to be able to deal with it in the way that we can without (fingers crossed) too much impact. Trying to get elderly relatives to take it as seriously as we are is another matter altogether :bang:

Good luck out there guys, and above all stay safe!

Funny enough - I've just started "take your wife to work day" today. For the first time ever, she's been given a laptop and told to work from home for the foreseeable.
Seems a bit strange at the moment having someone else in the "office" - I'm sure we'll get used to it ;)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Just been watching a live feed from Stanford Gould solicitors, and Heather is of the opinion (as someone who knows the law), that although he "advised" avoiding social gatherings, it should effectively be read as a ban.
She seems to think that we're now in Force Majeure territory and that weddings and parties can't take place for the time being. It may even be (and I need to check this one properly) that your PLI will not cover you if you supply the entertainment at a wedding or party and something goes wrong.

Very worrying times indeed......

I know the person and quite frankly I think she's got her information wrong.

[DJ Jules]

I've only worked 4 days in the office since the mid of Feb so working from home hasn't been a big issue and I've actually not been in the office environment during the period with the biggest chance of infection. It also helps that my boss and bosses boss are based in Northants and Oxford, so they only used to work in the office one or two days a week too.

Special schools around Bristol closed up shop yesterday and the rest of my kids schools are all closed as of the end of today. One was in the early stages of shutting down (closing specific years) and then had a confirmed case in the student population today so they were forced to go into lock down to remove everyone off site with minimal cross-contamination.

Wife works for the NHS and is now home too. We're self-isolating for the sake of my daughter until further notice, she's not happy about it.

With the 3 teenagers, I'm not sure I'll notice the difference (it's not like they leave their rooms anyway!)

Julian

[Benny Smyth]

I know the person and quite frankly I think she's got her information wrong.

:agree:

[rth_discos]

I know the person and quite frankly I think she's got her information wrong.

We must also remember there is no precedent for this.

So until it's been tested in court, no solicitor can know for sure - they can only advise on their own interpretation of the situation.

[Pe7e]

We must also remember there is no precedent for this.

So until it's been tested in court, no solicitor can know for sure - they can only advise on their own interpretation of the situation.

I would suggest there probably is, I've not heard of cases in the entertainment industry, but should you travel abroad against government advice, your travel insurance company will refuse any claims (unless an exception has been specifically included in your policy)

[rth_discos]

I would suggest there probably is, I've not heard of cases in the entertainment industry, but should you travel abroad against government advice, your travel insurance company will refuse any claims (unless an exception has been specifically included in your policy)

Government advice is very clear for travelling abroad. The FCO issue very specific advice, and will advise against 'all but essential travel' for example.

This advice has not been like that. Spain has been very clear about their lock down and what you can and can't do.

This is unchartered territory.

[Benny Smyth]

A venue near me has, according to rumour and innuendo, postponed all March, April, May & June weddings. I trust the guy who told me, but at the same time I cannot see why this venue would start postponing May & June already.

My current count is three postponements, all moved to later on in the year. I have an inkling that there will be a much harder lock down at the end of this week that will last, I reckon, two weeks. I'm DJing one wedding during that period (they're adamant that they want to crack on) and photographing as a second shooter at another. For me, personally, if there was to be a two week lock down, now would be the ideal time to do it (your mileage may vary).

[Imagine]

This advice has not been like that. Spain has been very clear about their lock down and what you can and can't do.

This is unchartered territory.

And THIS is the major problem. Had the information been "YOU WILL NOT ATTEND GATHERINGS, THE PUB, CLUBS" etc. as opposed to "We advise", the situation would have been a lot more clear cut.
I'm actually hoping the advice will change in the coming days so that we know exactly how to deal with it.


A venue near me has, according to rumour and innuendo, postponed all March, April, May & June weddings. I trust the guy who told me, but at the same time I cannot see why this venue would start postponing May & June already.

My current count is three postponements, all moved to later on in the year. I have an inkling that there will be a much harder lock down at the end of this week that will last, I reckon, two weeks. I'm DJing one wedding during that period (they're adamant that they want to crack on) and photographing as a second shooter at another. For me, personally, if there was to be a two week lock down, now would be the ideal time to do it (your mileage may vary).

I'm currently at two postponed weddings, 3 cancelled school discos and a couple of cancelled kids birthdays. I've offered the three remaining adult parties between now and the end of April their deposit back if they want to cancel. To be honest, for the sake of the £150 it's going to cost me to do that, I'd rather not be exposed if at all possible. It's not what's in my contract, but I'm trying to play fair and give people the opportunity to back out in these uncertain times rather than thinking they need to go ahead or lose money.

[DJ Jules]

I've seen venues reacting in a range of ways. Some have been adamant that they're closing shop and cancelling bookings. The venue for this coming Saturday and my gig on April 4th took this stance, I know of at least 3 local community halls that have closed doors and I'm sure there's more out there. Another is "open until someone tells them otherwise" but my customer for Sat 28th cancelled on them instead amid concerns for the welfare of his guests...

Julian

[ppentertainments]

A venue near me has, according to rumour and innuendo, postponed all March, April, May & June weddings. I trust the guy who told me, but at the same time I cannot see why this venue would start postponing May & June already.

My current count is three postponements, all moved to later on in the year. I have an inkling that there will be a much harder lock down at the end of this week that will last, I reckon, two weeks. I'm DJing one wedding during that period (they're adamant that they want to crack on) and photographing as a second shooter at another. For me, personally, if there was to be a two week lock down, now would be the ideal time to do it (your mileage may vary).

I know of quite a few round me who have done this.
Reason is, it is cheaper for them too close rather than buy stock etc and risk it being ruined, plus any temp staff can be laid off.

End of June seems to be the new target to start getting back to normal

[rth_discos]

I know of quite a few round me who have done this.
Reason is, it is cheaper for them too close rather than buy stock etc and risk it being ruined, plus any temp staff can be laid off.


Very true. With most staff on zero hours contracts, it can be relatively cheap to mothball a venue for a few months.

The real issue is the staff on zero hours contracts, most of which have little more than enough money for a few days.

Today was the first I've heard official sources talk about literally paying money directly in to our bank accounts. Right now, that is what is needed to keep roofs over people's heads and mouths fed. I don't think the population will look too kindly on multi-billion pound bailouts of airlines etc if the staff don't see any of that.





End of June seems to be the new target to start getting back to normal

Yes, that matches up with the timeline for Spain.

That's an incredibly long time for the country to be locked down. We've not even really entered the real 'lock down' yet. More restrictions to come - this is going to get worse by the day, with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't remember this reaction to SARS though. Just what is it about this virus that has led to measures being taken that they are literally prepared to decimate the world's economy for? It must be *very* bad.

[Marc J]

I don't remember this reaction to SARS though. Just what is it about this virus that has led to measures being taken that they are literally prepared to decimate the world's economy for? It must be *very* bad.

I was in the Far East at the height of SARS and Bird Flu, with body heat scanners at all airports, and everyone wearing masks. With these it was pretty obvious who had it and so who was infectious, so it was easier to contain. For things like Ebola, the same applies but add in a high death rate and that helps stop the spread (a disease shouldn't really kill the host if it wants to propagate). Someone with COVID-19 can, at least initially, be completely asymptomatic but still infectious and spreading it. The WHO described it very early on (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-is-the-worst-enemy-you-can-imagine-leading-doctors-warn-11931982) as "the worst enemy you can ever imagine" but everyone, especially the UK government*, was too slow to react. It has now weaponised children against their grandparents. Not to mention the economical impact. There's light at the end of the tunnel...but it's a very long tunnel.

Anyway, I sense yours was maybe a rhetorical question as you'd have to be living under a rock not to know this but... I felt a rant coming on!

*Note to moderators: I'm allowed!

[mattydj50]

Absolutely. You don't want to be going out and doing those discos, where all those germ ridden folk are invading your personal space. I'd stay at home, and pass 'em on to some poor unsuspecting Herbert. ;):whistle::D

Well, my one remaining booking in March, a charity ball for a friend, has been skidded to October. My one and only job (a wedding) in April is wobbling, so that won't make it. And then, who knows what.




Wayne, I hate to admit it, but you were right about the severity of the effects of the virus. In the short term, it looks like it's no work at all. :(

Seriously, though (reaches for tin hat and hides behind the sofa), are you not classed as elderly with underlying health problems, and should be locked up?

[Imagine]

Seriously, though (reaches for tin hat and hides behind the sofa), are you not classed as elderly with underlying health problems, and should be locked up?

:lol:

I've been biting my tongue and so nearly typed the exact same words - but didn't in fear of the ban hammer and a stern phone call :rofl:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

This is where I'm at just now: https://www.scotlandspartydj.com/corona-virus-update

Not to sound insensitive but everything I'm seeing on the FB groups etc... falls into 3 types of category:

- Impending wedding that the venue has cancelled.
- Impending wedding that hasn't been cancelled and couple are carrying on.
- Quite frankly selfish people who have weddings way down the line trying to reschedule already before any venue shut down or government advice AND being indignant that suppliers and venues are trying to continue as normal until told otherwise whilst maintaining a healthy cashflow to keep the business afloat.

The latter group are the equivalent of your 80 rolls of bog paper hoarders imo so I'm going to be mercenary for anyone "rescheduling" unless the venue has shut or the wedding is in the next 2 months.

[Excalibur]

Seriously, though (reaches for tin hat and hides behind the sofa), are you not classed as elderly with underlying health problems, and should be locked up?


:lol:

I've been biting my tongue and so nearly typed the exact same words - but didn't in fear of the ban hammer and a stern phone call :rofl:

Behave, Children. :Naughty: Although I may use my great age for comic effect: according to the government, I'm not a pensioner. According to the supermarkets, I'm a mere child ( Under 70). According to my wife, I'm a Toyboy. :):o

Health problems, well my respiratory system is in A1 condition, so that's debatable. :confused:

Now as to " should be locked up"............................................ :whistle:

[Imagine]

Now as to " should be locked up"............................................ :whistle:

Give it a couple of days old timer and we'll ALL be locked up.
They keep mentioning that London's a couple of weeks ahead of the rest of the UK at the moment (they're really emphasising that on the briefings over the past couple of days).

I reckon we're going to get an edict either today or tomorrow locking the capital down first, followed by the rest of the UK the week after....and THEN the real panic will set in.
Either way, I've now managed to move or cancel EVERYTHING that was booked until at least July. The diary is empty for the next three months and it's absolutely heartbreaking :(

Quite how I'm going to amuse myself until then, I really don't know :o

[DJ Jules]

Quite how I'm going to amuse myself until then, I really don't know :o

Baiting the "elderly" members of internet forums? :D

Julian

[Imagine]

Baiting the "elderly" members of internet forums? :D

Julian

That's not much fun though - it's too easy :rofl:

In all seriousness, I've just heard that the supermarkets are looking to hire people on 12 week temp contracts, so might be looking to do a bit of delivery driving or shelf filling to keep things ticking over.

[Excalibur]

Either way, I've now managed to move or cancel EVERYTHING that was booked until at least July. The diary is empty for the next three months and it's absolutely heartbreaking :(
Virtually the same, except I'm clear to end of May ( and to be honest, I don't foresee that one going ahead). A diary that empty is a frightening prospect. :(


Quite how I'm going to amuse myself until then, I really don't know :o

I was looking on a tree fellers forum, and the jovial response was that we'll all go out and saw up the firewood that we need for Winter, and get all those jobs done that we've been putting off for ages. I've got a new home to build for the disco, and whether that will happen before closure or bankruptcy, I know not. :confused:

Trying times.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

A venue near me has, according to rumour and innuendo, postponed all March, April, May & June weddings. I trust the guy who told me, but at the same time I cannot see why this venue would start postponing May & June already.

My current count is three postponements, all moved to later on in the year. I have an inkling that there will be a much harder lock down at the end of this week that will last, I reckon, two weeks. I'm DJing one wedding during that period (they're adamant that they want to crack on) and photographing as a second shooter at another. For me, personally, if there was to be a two week lock down, now would be the ideal time to do it (your mileage may vary).

Just had the same here, seems a bit knee jerk but it's going to have a knock on effect sadly.

[Imagine]

We've had a few here, but there's an awful lot who are openly bragging that they're still open for business as usual.

That said, there are more and more announcements daily of "closed until further notice"

The problem I can see with the cavalier "business as usual" policy is that it could trigger a backlash of being irresponsible. OK, there's the problem that nobody has been TOLD to shut their doors (and that was a big mistake)....but there's the socially responsible thing going on at the moment as well. The public are genuinely scared as is obvious from the responses I've had after I sent out a preemptive email offering them the chance to cancel/postpone or whatever (I'm trying to work with customers, because my personal feeling is that it's going to earn more kudos once the dust has settled).

Yes, it's inconvenient to have your wedding or party postponed or cancelled, but compared to what we're possibly facing (and I'm no doom-monger), surely a little inconvenience is the better option isn't it?

[DJ Jules]

Saw this coming... (https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/coronavirus-nsw-live-updates-sixth-person-dies-from-covid19-in-australia/live-coverage/2f42b6e7d478f21c7d757dbe55254d0a) I'm sure there's more examples of this happening already, but this obviously hit the news because he's a semi-celebrity and infected some fairly high profile people in the area.

Julian

[Benny Smyth]

I've now contacted all of my clients until the end of June to start a conversation with them. I've not mentioned anything about postponing yet, but merely letting them know that I am here if they have any concerns.

On the upside, I foresee me having my busiest October ever!

[rth_discos]

On the upside, I foresee me having my busiest October ever!

Just to add some positivity to this.

By the end of the summer, as things come back to normal, we should see a bumper end of year.

For those who rely mainly on weddings, we're probably in the best boat. Most will have significant financial commitments to their wedding already, so are simply delaying the wedding.

Which means across this year, overall revenue shouldn't be too affected.

The kicker is the cash flow through this period. All well having lots of work at the end of the year, but mortgages need paying in the coming months.

HMRC are being more lenient with payment 2 on account for self assessment (provided you phone and ask for permission) - so for those who have a proper income from DJ'ing, that second payment on account being held back may just free up some cash.

Many venues were reporting a good 2020 for bookings, so ideally, any postponement of weddings will likely be to a Friday or Saturday, as the Saturday may already be gone at the venue.

So it could be a case of many back-to-back weddings in the second half of the year.

That's the only silver lining I can currently put on this cloud.

However, 2021 is going to be a challenge. I would suggest planning ahead now.

It's unlikely that 2021 is going to see many bookings - people just aren't going to be going out viewing venues now to book for next year. Plus, incomes are going to be incredibly squeezed over the coming months. So those clients who don't bring in huge incomes, but do spend a lot on their wedding and were prepared to invest in good entertainment, may struggle to do the same next year. And personally, I've found the very rich tend to book through entertainment agencies, rather than direct.

Definitely time to plan for the next 12-24 months as well as the next few months.

** UPDATE **

Church of England weddings are likely to be limited to the legal minimum of five people - the priest, bride, groom and two witnesses.

As with all of this - no set length mentioned - it's how open-ended this is that is causing the issues and uncertainty now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8131395/Weddings-cut-just-FIVE-people-coronavirus-outbreak-Church-England-confirms.html

[Imagine]

So after today's briefing

* There's "hope" of turning it around in 12 weeks
* They're still not outlawing gatherings yet (why????)

12 weeks pushes us to the end of June, and with a very busy July & August, I'm starting to panic ever so slightly because I can foresee that gatherings will still be frowned upon even then.

This is going to be a very long haul, and very, very tough to survive (I know many that aren't going to make it). Even when we're released back into the wild, it's going to take time to rebuild everything.
Maybe it's time I started looking at writing software again :(

[Benny Smyth]

Is there a market for Bearded Worcestershire-Based Blokes in the webcam game? :Laugh:

I'm sure that you guys are on it already, but just in case, I have found that speaking to my clients on the phone has really helped them realise that they're not alone in this. I'm prioritising calling my clients for the next 6 weeks, but those who I have emailed offering a chat that decide to call me are obviously getting my time too. I'm giving them a chance to vent a little, talk through what's on their minds and let them know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I think that they would expect that from their venue/planner but to have the DJ offer support in such a way has proven a bit of a nice surprise for them.

[rth_discos]

This is going to be a very long haul, and very, very tough to survive (I know many that aren't going to make it). Even when we're released back into the wild, it's going to take time to rebuild everything.

Surely something significant is imminent.

We're not far off mass redundancies and collapses of incomes - surely the Government can't just allow that to happen?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Just to add some positivity to this.

By the end of the summer, as things come back to normal, we should see a bumper end of year.

For those who rely mainly on weddings, we're probably in the best boat. Most will have significant financial commitments to their wedding already, so are simply delaying the wedding.

W

Literally 98+% of my gigs are weddings and I'm busy throughout the year - if things get pushed back to October and November then I'm losing a lot of dates as I'm already rammed right through until December and let's call a spade a spade - brides and grooms just now really aren't basing their decisions on moving dates, venues etc... around whether we're still going to be available or not.

That's why I'm just reverting to my t's and c's. Had a call with a groom yesterday who was already scheduled in to meet his venue and cut him a break but told him then and there, after this I'm just sticking to my t's and c's - wether that is nice for a couple just now or not - as it levels the playing field, let's both parties know exactly where we stand and at the end of the day, they're there for a reason, just ignoring them because is financially stupid - tonnes of other businesses are doing what they need to do to keep afloat and we should be the same.

I wouldn't say my concern, because I'm looking after me and my own, but there's a lot of guys in this game (and the wedding game in general) who don't actually approach it with a business mind and they are really going to suffer if they make the wrong moves just now.

[Excalibur]

I think that they would expect that from their venue/planner but to have the DJ offer support in such a way has proven a bit of a nice surprise for them.

Yeah, cos DJ's are soulless automata, who just tun up on the night, press play, and trouser the folding, Benny. :whistle:

Sigh, I appear to be becoming jaundiced and sceptical in my middle years ( cos according to all indicators, I'm not old yet). :daft: I fear it may take a long time before we are viewed with respect by the general public. Keep up the good work, Benny. ( And all others following The True Path Of Enlightenment). :approve:

Let's hope that the virus weeds out ( financially of course, heaven forfend) some of the beer money oiks dragging this game into the gutter.

[Marc J]

Let's hope that the virus weeds out ( financially of course, heaven forfend) some of the beer money oiks dragging this game into the gutter.

Unfortunately I think that the opposite is more likely. Full time DJ's (as their only income) will surely struggle, it's those who only do it for beer money that'll still be around (assuming their main income is safe).

Disclaimer: Not a jibe at part timers, or the quality of the service(s) they provide, in any way, shape or form!

[Imagine]

Unfortunately I think that the opposite is more likely. Full time DJ's (as their only income) will surely struggle, it's those who only do it for beer money that'll still be around (assuming their main income is safe).

Disclaimer: Not a jibe at part timers, or the quality of the service(s) they provide, in any way, shape or form!


I think you're right there Marc. They're not feeling the pain of everything in shutdown unless their main job has gone belly up.
I think once this is over, we're going to see a lot of people struggling financially who don't have the budget for a full timer and Sidney is going to be out every night of the week.

Me? I'm off to Tesco's to see about a temporary job as a night-filler (along with the rest of the world)....strange times

[rth_discos]

Me? I'm off to Tesco's to see about a temporary job as a night-filler (along with the rest of the world)....strange times

On a serious note, I think there's a huge demand for drivers at the moment for home deliveries.

As DJs we tick boxes for both the ability to drive a van and also good customer service...

[DJ Jules]

At least someone seems to have finally noticed us...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51969192

I vaguely remember one of the previous PM's saying something about Self-employed and start ups being the "engine" of Britain following the 2008 financial crisis. 10yrs is a long time in politics though :P

Julian

[Imagine]

On a serious note, I think there's a huge demand for drivers at the moment for home deliveries.

As DJs we tick boxes for both the ability to drive a van and also good customer service...

The home delivery bit doesn't seem to be so clear cut. Talking to an insider, they're trying to work out how the hell to deal with that (additional vans, 4 weeks of training etc).
Application's in for night fill at the moment....we shall see what happens. It might well be that IF I get in (there's a lot of people going for these jobs at the moment), I can look to transfer across as and when.

How did 2020 go from being such a promising year to what it is now? :daft:

[rth_discos]

One way to get through this:

DJ makes £3,000 in two hours selling toilet roll in lay-by

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/20/coronavirus-uk-dj-makes-3000-two-hours-selling-toilet-roll-lay-12429242/

How are those seeds coming along Wayne?!!

[Nakatomi]

One way to get through this:

DJ makes £3,000 in two hours selling toilet roll in lay-by

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/20/coronavirus-uk-dj-makes-3000-two-hours-selling-toilet-roll-lay-12429242/

How are those seeds coming along Wayne?!!

It just HAD to be DiscoBoy didn't it! :mad:

[Imagine]

One way to get through this:

DJ makes £3,000 in two hours selling toilet roll in lay-by

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/20/coronavirus-uk-dj-makes-3000-two-hours-selling-toilet-roll-lay-12429242/

How are those seeds coming along Wayne?!!

Only Lee could pull something like that off :o

Toilet roll seeds are going very well. One of my local venues is growing some in his field (they're sprouting!). He's planted them a bit too close together, but we're still learning at the moment :)

18861

[Pe7e]

I have an inkling that there will be a much harder lock down at the end of this week that will last, I reckon, two weeks.

You were almost right, just been announced pubs, clubs, theaters, cinemas, restaurants ect ordered to shut indefinitely as from tonight. The party is certainly over for now.

[Nakatomi]

Well that's tomorrow's wedding I was going to be working at cancelled - on account of guests pulling out. This was 4 hours before Boris announced he was shutting venues down. I've offered them rescheduling when the dust settles a bit. We've all got more than enough to worry about without adding to it or waving T&Cs at people.

I'm actually relieved. On one hand you never want to let a customer down but on the other I know it rubs against what's going to be for the best - everyone staying in, not mingling, not yelling in DJs ears. Plus I wasn't expecting it to be a busy one anyway.

My friends who are full timers - my heart bleeds for them it really does. I'm currently lucky in that my day job is still going & I'm only in til a certain job is completed then I can work from home. Being so practically based though, I'm at a loss as to exactly what I can work on remotely.

Our government have announced unprecedented (gee, how our chancellor LOVES that word!) relief for businesses & citizens but it's still too little for some. These are truly terrible times.

[rth_discos]

You were almost right, just been announced pubs, clubs, theaters, cinemas, restaurants ect ordered to shut indefinitely as from tonight. The party is certainly over for now.

The key line from Boris about the above closure that highlighted the magnitude of this was

"We'll be reviewing this on a monthly basis".

This is NOT going away in a few weeks.

[Nakatomi]

The key line from Boris about the above closure that highlighted the magnitude of this was

"We'll be reviewing this on a monthly basis".

This is NOT going away in a few weeks.

3 months minimum I reckon. But then I look at what's going on in Italy & thinking hmmm. Their version of social distancing doesn't seem to be working too well what hope do we have?

[Imagine]

The key line from Boris about the above closure that highlighted the magnitude of this was

"We'll be reviewing this on a monthly basis".

This is NOT going away in a few weeks.

I think we can kiss goodbye to anything meaningful for the rest of 2020 sadly (possibly including the lucrative Xmas and New Year gigs), and the £92 Universal Credit offer is a kick in the gentleman vegetables. Sid gets a pay rise, the rest of us starve.

What they've done is exactly the right thing because there were too many venues and DJs with a cavalier attitude towards all of this. And whilst places were still open, people were always going to go there. There are some still working tonight, some questioning whether or not hotels "count" in the shutdown (yes they do!), and even whether village halls are included (erm....yes!).

The only potentially grey area I have (and trust me, I don't want to do it with the current guidelines) is a wedding in August in a marquee in a private back garden out in the middle of nowhere. I'm hoping by then that it's either died down a little bit, or that there's a number put onto private gatherings.

I actually think it's going to get a lot harder before it gets any easier.

The more worrying aspect is the suggestion earlier today from SAGE that we could alternate between strict measures (what we've got now), and less strict measures for 6-12 months. Planning around that is going to be impossible.

The past week has been shattering and heartbreaking. Speaking to tearful brides, cancelling parties that little kids were looking forward to, and not actually knowing how far into the future we need to be thinking about moving stuff. I've had September brides cancelling until next year (one of them because they have to attend church for 6 months before the wedding and that's obviously not going to happen now).

It actually all hit me like a steam train last night the magnitude of what's happening at the moment - and suffering from anxiety really doesn't help. Not just the business side of things (although that's been bloody tough - things were just starting to look really good!). But also the schools shutting, the wife being made to work from home (nice but absolutely unheard of), and the empty supermarket shelves. I'm feeling absolutely wiped out now!

So, time to write a CV which is something I've not done for around 20 years. I don't know why the supermarkets insist on one for a temp shelf filling job, but hey ho!
I had been toying with the idea of going back into software development on a freelance basis but talking to others already in that game, they're being laid off left, right and centre. Seems working in a supermarket is about the safest bet at the moment.

[rth_discos]

It actually all hit me like a steam train last night the magnitude of what's happening at the moment - and suffering from anxiety really doesn't help. Not just the business side of things (although that's been bloody tough - things were just starting to look really good!). But also the schools shutting, the wife being made to work from home (nice but absolutely unheard of), and the empty supermarket shelves. I'm feeling absolutely wiped out now!


I had the same on Thursday night. I think it was the moment that the magnitude of this hit. When people say 'life will never be the same again', they were right. Yes, we'll need to adapt and change, but the uncertainty of what these means worried me. I'm sure we'll get through this, but I think it was the realisation that nothing in life is guaranteed.

On the flip side, I'm now working from home with my wife, and we're looking forward to enjoying some nice lunches together. Not commuting to the office each day will be nice, and the weather will get better soon. So trying to focus on some of the positives.

But what had become a very small world (just 2 weeks ago I enjoyed a week away in the Canary Islands with flights costing £60 each for a return trip) has suddenly become very large. The idea of just jumping on a plane at a moment's notice to go anywhere in the world may never return.

[Imagine]

OK - riddle me this (and I've actually emailed my MP for clarification). Things are also likely to have changed by the time we get to July and August when both of these wedding happen too (such as either a complete ban on any gathering of over XYZ number of people or it'll have all gone away like a bad dream.....if only)

Going on an NADJ post from Gavin earlier, the current legislation outlining the lockdown on Friday is here: Correct linkage is: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/327/pdfs/uksi_20200327_en.pdf

Forgetting any moral arguments about spreading Covid-19 (trust me, I'm not one of those cavalier DJs going out regardless....the sooner this thing's stopped properly and we can all buy toilet rolls again the better in my book). I've also witnessed first hand my future son-in-law going through this thing....it's not pretty!

But, my hands are tied contractually on these two, and morals don't come into contracts as such.....

Wedding 1: July 2020, a village hall with no bar and they're bringing their own booze (so not licensed premises)
Wedding 2: August 2020, a marquee in a private back garden (again, not licensed premises although they have an outside bar coming and although they've not said as much yet , will be supplying their own if the bar can't be there)

NEITHER of these instances are mentioned in the legislation (in fact village halls and gatherings on private land seem to be loopholes).

I totally get it that the spirit of the law is to stop gatherings, but if these two insist they're going ahead...

What would YOU do?

[Excalibur]

Re the link in Wayne's post, it now links to the page he wanted.

Re his dilemma, it's simple.

Partly.

First, the easy bit. Wayne, it's a contract, you fulfil it, Simples.

The caveat, is whether it's illegal. :confused: I could probably live with immoral, but doing something illegal in public, well that's a whole different ball game. And Wayne, my first cancellation was a private party, in a village hall, with a BYO drink policy. I thought they might slip under the radar, but my client decided not to, and I can't criticise her for it.

Edit: Wayne, I've read the link. Fell asleep twice, but I read it. Key word: Business. Your clients are fireproof, gig's on.

[lazersounds]

I too have a wedding on June 6th Held on Private Land in a marque, Its a festival theme, my bride and groom are trying to find out where they stand and whether can still go ahead or not.

The registry office has told them they can now only have 2 witnesses and the photographer, nobody else can attend the ceremony. The Hen party to Blackpool in May has been cancelled.

The Bride and Groom are friends of mine so I have told them I will be there for them whatever happens but its such a stressful time for them both and feel so sorry for them.

[DJ Jules]

We started in on the debate on the penalties for breaking the rules on MDJN yesterday so I went and tried to read the draft legislation going through parliament and discovered I can't, I can only see the summary that shows the spirit of it. The legislation is not going to target types of businesses, it can be used to shut down specific venues or premises but primarily it's going to block types of activities. That's far wider reaching and is likely to be used to ban weddings/gatherings/parties or gatherings with specific numbers, regardless of where they are or what type of venue they're in.

What I haven't seen yet is any mention of the actual penalties for breaking the legislation. They're introducing powers to allow persons who they believe to be infected to be ordered to self-quarantine or be forcibly quarantined for anything from 24hrs to 1 month so, in theory, it could be possible for them to walk into any gathering and detain everyone present based on that premise - I can't see that happening, they're going to have bigger worries. I suspect we might see a few examples made of venues/gatherings in a low key fashion or something like street patrols and written slips and on the spot fines like they have in France to make people stop and think. As soon as this starts to happen it's going to really hammer home just what freedoms we have to be prepared to sacrifice to control this bug.

[Excalibur]

but primarily it's going to block types of activities. That's far wider reaching and is likely to be used to ban weddings/gatherings/parties or gatherings with specific numbers, regardless of where they are or what type of venue they're in.



Types of activities? Whoa, Neddy! :eek: I haven't seen that ( but haven't been looking, so no surprise there, really). Persons of my age are doubtless thinking of " reading the riot act". Never expected to be contemplating that one!

I've now got visions of door staff at all gigs saying" sorry, you're guest number 100, you're not coming in", or enforcing two metre exclusion zones to forbid " social intercourse". Sorry folks, don't expect me to re-enter orbit round Planet Sensible any time soon. :daft:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

What part of unnecessary social gatherings are people having a problem with? It's really simple.

Go outside solo or only with members of your own household. Don't go within a couple of metres of strangers. How can you seriously conduct a wedding with these measures in place is beyond me.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

What part of unnecessary social gatherings are people having a problem with? It's really simple.

Go outside solo or only with members of your own household. Don't go within a couple of metres of strangers. How can you seriously conduct a wedding with these measures in place is beyond me.

I'm not sure if you've been shopping in the past week but people in general are :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ty. Christ they had to send a bunch of cops to a PUB in Greenock yesterday which stayed open, ended up rammed and they all started fighting with each other.

[Imagine]

I'm not sure if you've been shopping in the past week but people in general are :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ty.

Sadly, I'm having to go on pretty much a daily basis (more risk of exposure) just to get food into the house because we didn't join the stupidity of stockpiling. The supermarkets here have been stripped completely bare

[rth_discos]

So I've been following closely what the experts are suggesting is likely to happen over the coming 2 years (yes 2 years).

This virus isn't going away anywhere fast. The current measures won't stop the spread. They're designed to slow down the spread of it, to stop our NHS being overwhelmed (which will occur in the next 2 weeks as we're already well behind the curve).

Restrictions will become even greater over the coming weeks. Sadly, it will take seeing the NHS collapse under the strain, with mass numbers of coffins being cremated for many people to start taking this seriously.

But it appears that any vaccine is 12-18 months away. Even then, this is the kicker, it seems this virus is mutating all the time. So the vaccine will need to be adjusted for the mutated versions. The experts are suggesting we may never actually get this 'herd immunity' that was previously suggested by Government, because of its mutations.

The mass gatherings of people may be many years away from returning to what we've been used to. They're suggesting these restrictions on social gatherings will be common for quite some time.

It may be hard to imagine, but the world will be very different - possibly for many years.

Now this is worst case scenario, but the wedding and entertainment industry may never return. Few pubs will survive this lock down - and I doubt the hotel industry will either. With both corporate travel cut and down leisure (weddings) now stopped, I can't see many of these venues surviving a long lock down.

I only mention this because I know many rely on this industry for their income. If you're sat thinking you can ride this out for a couple of months and have a bumper summer and end of the year, I wouldn't rely on that. And these measures could stay in to place right in to next year.

Even if we do come out of it, with less venues, the landscape will be very different.

The idea of 'social distancing' may become standard practise moving forward. The idea of getting 100 people in to a room from all around the country might not happen again in the levels it has been happening in recently. Who knows, we may see a return to very small weddings only consisting on friends and family only.

This is a 'bad case' scenario. It might not be that bad - and I don't intent to alarm - but right now I wouldn't take anything off the table.

I just recommend thinking very carefully about your future

[Imagine]

So I've been following closely what the experts are suggesting is likely to happen over the coming 2 years (yes 2 years).

This virus isn't going away anywhere fast. The current measures won't stop the spread. They're designed to slow down the spread of it, to stop our NHS being overwhelmed (which will occur in the next 2 weeks as we're already well behind the curve).

Restrictions will become even greater over the coming weeks. Sadly, it will take seeing the NHS collapse under the strain, with mass numbers of coffins being cremated for many people to start taking this seriously.

But it appears that any vaccine is 12-18 months away. Even then, this is the kicker, it seems this virus is mutating all the time. So the vaccine will need to be adjusted for the mutated versions. The experts are suggesting we may never actually get this 'herd immunity' that was previously suggested by Government, because of its mutations.

The mass gatherings of people may be many years away from returning to what we've been used to. They're suggesting these restrictions on social gatherings will be common for quite some time.

It may be hard to imagine, but the world will be very different - possibly for many years.

Now this is worst case scenario, but the wedding and entertainment industry may never return. Few pubs will survive this lock down - and I doubt the hotel industry will either. With both corporate travel cut and down leisure (weddings) now stopped, I can't see many of these venues surviving a long lock down.

I only mention this because I know many rely on this industry for their income. If you're sat thinking you can ride this out for a couple of months and have a bumper summer and end of the year, I wouldn't rely on that. And these measures could stay in to place right in to next year.

Even if we do come out of it, with less venues, the landscape will be very different.

The idea of 'social distancing' may become standard practise moving forward. The idea of getting 100 people in to a room from all around the country might not happen again in the levels it has been happening in recently. Who knows, we may see a return to very small weddings only consisting on friends and family only.

This is a 'bad case' scenario. It might not be that bad - and I don't intent to alarm - but right now I wouldn't take anything off the table.

I just recommend thinking very carefully about your future

My little brain cell is struggling to process all of this if I'm honest.

I've just read that Primark are closing their UK stores at close of play tonight, and not reopening tomorrow morning. John Lewis and others are doing likewise. The death of the High Street has arrived already because they'll find they can run more efficiently online rather than paying the millions it costs in rent, staff, rates etc.

I can actually foresee the supermarkets closing and turning into Ocado type operations where you order online and have it delivered. Local independent corner shops however might do very well out of what's happening at the moment. Milkmen already are....there's a waiting list to get on the round that goes through my village because he hasn't got capacity.

I think long term there's going to need to be some sort of help from the Government for a mass re-training of the workforce - so many trades are going to disappear (retail, pubs, nightlife, caterers....). On the retail front, don't forget there's a mass of DJ shops who are no longer making money either.

The next worry if it goes on too long and looks like no return to "normal"....how in the name of all that's holy do I sell off what amounted to around £30-£40k of equipment when it was brand new. I know even before last week it wasn't worth anything like that, but it's now virtually unsellable! :o

[Pe7e]

The next worry if it goes on too long and looks like no return to "normal"....how in the name of all that's holy do I sell off what amounted to around £30-£40k of equipment when it was brand new. I know even before last week it wasn't worth anything like that, but it's now virtually unsellable! :o

I'm facing the exactly same dilemma myself. taking my age and heart condition I doubt I will be still involved in the hire business in the medium term future. I'm currently self isolating since if I caught corvid-19 I would probably only have a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of surviving it and that's a gamble I'm not prepared to take. For the time being I'm having a 'practice' retirement. I would have a lot of equipment that would need selling if I actually retire, but as you pointed out at the moment it's value has fallen through the floor so I'm currently retaining it until the situation we are in at the moment becomes more predictable. Although I could survive OK on current resources without working, a little extra income turns survival into living, I still want to travel, go places and experience new things rather than die of boredom within the 4 walls I live in, that's not life.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Being a teacher, I'm in a stable and well paid job plus we're pretty sorted with regards to our mortgage - I don't want to be "that guy" but we've been looking at putting in a lump sum and paying it off in the next 3 years, the interest rate situation will probably work out even better for us.

However, in real terms, I've just taken a £20-25k drop in salary. Folk rescheduling for May and June is all well and good but I'll be astounded if they go ahead and when all's said and done and we see the state of play when things normalise (I'm not using the term back to normal for obvious reasons) there's probably not going to be much of a market for £800+ DJs out there.

[Imagine]

when all's said and done and we see the state of play when things normalise (I'm not using the term back to normal for obvious reasons) there's probably not going to be much of a market for £800+ DJs out there.

Sadly, I think you're right there Jim :(. I think if we survive this (and I know many that are panicking at the moment), the fees will be dropping just to get business in.
As for whether there's any venues left to actually work in.....that's another matter.


Right - off to apply to be a grocery delivery driver....every little helps as they say ;)

[Excalibur]

Well that's both Wetherspoons and McDonalds closed now! :cry::cry::cry:

Seriously, things are looking grim now. I think we will see many closures that don't reopen, and yes, perhaps September is looking wildly optimistic. :(

Interesting times.

[Imagine]

Well that's both Wetherspoons and McDonalds closed now! :cry::cry::cry:

Seriously, things are looking grim now. I think we will see many closures that don't reopen, and yes, perhaps September is looking wildly optimistic. :(

Interesting times.

I'm wondering if there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about, such as these particular establishments being "encouraged" to close their doors to stop people venturing out as opposed to what would be seen as a draconian "nobody is to leave home".

Grim yes, but if it stops people having a cavalier attitude and spreading this thing, it's got to be done.

Anyway - I'm done with negativity now. I've been in some very dark places over the weekend and it's time to start thinking positively.

I've had loads of positive vibes from brides that I've been talking to about postponement over the weekend (they actually believe I'm on their side which is a good thing). I've got a schedule of things to do such as cleaning out the lockup, getting the veg seeds in, and generally trying to stay busy. Sadly the first job I want to get out of the way is the accounts, and with March being cancelled, it's not going to be pretty.

Once the accounts are done - it's time to put on a big happy-go-lucky smile and get through this thing :)

[Excalibur]

Anyway - I'm done with negativity now. I've been in some very dark places over the weekend and it's time to start thinking positively.


And in the interests of balance and fairness, I'm going the other way. While I appreciate that in the wilds of God's County, much of the excrement will bypass us, I'm thinking that it's going to get much worse before it gets better. If it ever really " gets better". We may face future with less venues and more Sids.

I think the optimistic forecasts of a bumper September are now looking way off the mark, and we may even struggle to have a decent December. Don't forget that if incomes are hit hard, disposable income ( which is what we rely on ) will be hit also.

[stormproductions]

As some of you may remember I predominantly do lighting for temporary events and only DJ a maximum of around 15 times a year.

My work has obviously disappeared but thankfully I've got a cushion to weather the storm for a while and am very grateful as there are a lot of people in far worse circumstances.

But I too am looking into becoming a supermarket hero or similar, it's already annoying that I'm willing and able to work in any range of positions but the application process is unnecessarily clunky. Your country needs you and all that!

For my business I'm aiming to take the opportunity to do a load of equipment maintenance and project work and have brought some stuff home to keep me busy for a while if I get prevented from travelling to the industrial unit where I keep it all. Also aiming to finally get round to properly learning to use a lighting desk I bought which I've never got my head round! Heck, if it carries on too long I might even learn to DJ better.

Otherwise, I plan to keep fit and maybe even attempt to get some form of exercise going (I'm lucky in that my work normally keeps me fairly fit, shame I hate exercise for exercise's sake though!). Thankfully we've got direct access from the house out into some virtually deserted woods and fields. Garden projects. DIY projects. Play. Learn (not sure what yet but I'm genuinely aiming to try to educate myself and learn a useful new skill of some sort, just not yet worked out what!). Relax. Keep abreast of the news whilst limiting myself to not having a constant feed. Help others. And I've just realised this is starting to sound like a bit like "Sunscreen"!

And as a final positive thought, whilst typing this I've just received an email about a regular job I do each December, the biggest of the year, asking about potential dates...

Oh, and heard this on 6Music last night... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-iS89MyCXA Superb new song from Billy Bragg basically about Mother's Day yesterday.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

It's worth remembering that nobody knows much about this at the moment but look at China who are coming out the other end. We just need to sit tight, stay positive and not panic.

[Imagine]

It's worth remembering that nobody knows much about this at the moment but look at China who are coming out the other end. We just need to sit tight, stay positive and not panic.

:agree:

[Benny Smyth]

It's worth remembering that nobody knows much about this at the moment but look at China who are coming out the other end. We just need to sit tight, stay positive and not panic.

But all the Facebook Scientists keep telling me that we're not doing enough and that we should have been locked in the basement since 2018.

Ok, they tell me this via Facebook status while they are in a queue for Costa, but I assume that's because their presence is the vaccine we desire.

[Nakatomi]

It's worth remembering that nobody knows much about this at the moment but look at China who are coming out the other end. We just need to sit tight, stay positive and not panic.

Yes. Look at China who had lockdowns that would give Boris nightmares - they're starting to emerge again now that case counts have decreased. But guess what? Cases are on the increase there again. They're not out of the woods yet.

It's heartening but hardly surprising that putting people in isolation stopped the spread in its tracks eventually. Their measures were draconian - once they grasped the seriousness of the situation they acted double quick - way more forcefully than we have so far. Yet we've still got people who think it's fine to nip out for a spot of sight seeing - even when it's crowded. That is, til 5pm today when Boris proclaims he's putting his foot down.

I've even heard of customers saying "but weddings weren't banned so we can still go ahead, right?". Erm, no pet. You can't. What's so hard to understand? Are the government going to have to list every possible activity they're disallowing? Apparently they are.

[Imagine]

I've even heard of customers saying "but weddings weren't banned so we can still go ahead, right?". Erm, no pet. You can't. What's so hard to understand? Are the government going to have to list every possible activity they're disallowing? Apparently they are.

I know this one only too well, as do a couple of other people I've spoken to. It becomes more difficult when said wedding is on private ground, or when venues are still brazenly adopting the attitude that the registrars are happy to do the service....therefore it's business as usual until you dictate it can't happen.

The only way round this is to outlaw ANY gathering of more than 2 people, just like Germany have.

* The shops are closing themselves (or being told to behind the scenes)
* The tourist attractions are closing down (no more climbing Snowdon)
* The town centres are getting quieter, and there's even less cars on the road.

The message is slowly getting across, but until dear Boris dictates that you MUST NOT SOCIALIZE, there will be a hard core of people that have "excuses" for being out and about, taking photos of empty supermarket shelves and the like.

I'm fairly lucky in that I live in a rural-ish village. There's plenty of places wifey and I can escape for a walk without seeing another soul and that's probably unlikely to change even on full lockdown (the entire village is well and truly enforcing the social distancing rules). The only real exposures we have to it at the moment are the fact that our son works in retail, and I have to occasionally go and get food to keep us alive.

Other than that, we're pretty much locked down already :o

[Benny Smyth]

What BoJo has been saying is as clear as day, but apparently still too complicated for the morons and stubborn folk of the world.

We want you to stay at home. We want you to stay at home because we cannot deal with this crap right now and the NHS is already too busy. We want to kick the can down the road to a time where the NHS is less busy so we can deal with this properly. No, I don't want to enforce Marshall Law because some of you getting the virus is actually a good thing, as it will lessen the numbers that need treatment when we do decide to open the floodgates and it will also go a tiny way to the herd immunity. That doesn't mean continue with going to car parks at night and flashing your lights at other suspiciously parked cars in the area. Do a weekly shop, go to work then stay home. If you decide to continue playing kiss chase in the park, I'm going to have to lock you guys up which will pee you off and guess what? That's just going to prolong this process.

[Imagine]

What BoJo has been saying is as clear as day, but apparently still too complicated for the morons and stubborn folk of the world.

We want you to stay at home. We want you to stay at home because we cannot deal with this crap right now and the NHS is already too busy. We want to kick the can down the road to a time where the NHS is less busy so we can deal with this properly. No, I don't want to enforce Marshall Law because some of you getting the virus is actually a good thing, as it will lessen the numbers that need treatment when we do decide to open the floodgates and it will also go a tiny way to the herd immunity. That doesn't mean continue with going to car parks at night and flashing your lights at other suspiciously parked cars in the area. Do a weekly shop, go to work then stay home. If you decide to continue playing kiss chase in the park, I'm going to have to lock you guys up which will pee you off and guess what? That's just going to prolong this process.

I'll post an image from a local venue in the supporter's section - purely for privacy reasons

[rth_discos]

So McDonalds is closing its doors tonight.

I kid you not, there is a queue round the entire car park trying to get through my local McDonalds. I could not believe it. Normally there's no more than 1 or 2 cars going through at a time. There must have been over 100 cars trying to get through. It was as if it was their last meal they'll ever get.

However, it benefited me, as I needed to go to M&S (have been trying to get my hands on some pasta for a couple of weeks and I'm clean out), and the cashier said that they have been dead all day because the queue for McDonalds has put people coming in (as its blocked the entire car park). And it meant I could get some pasta. Every cloud!

[Marc J]

Every cloud!

Indeed (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52000173) :eek:

[Benny Smyth]

https://i.ibb.co/T2kwWVR/Capture.jpg

Well then...that post didn't age well, did it? :Laugh:

[Excalibur]

I'm fairly lucky in that I live in a rural-ish village.
Compared to me, you inhabit a thriving metropolis. :p


What BoJo has been saying is as clear as day, but apparently still too complicated for the morons and stubborn folk of the world.

We want you to stay at home.

Nope, still not getting it. :confused: Unless of course it only applies to other people*? :confused:


* The definition of " other people" could be problematical, I can see.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Well that's that then.

Looking forward to a mad inbox over the next week or so.

[Imagine]

Well that's that then.

Looking forward to a mad inbox over the next week or so.

At least it's black and white now for the venues that are flouting the rules

* No weddings
* No gatherings of more than two people

Sadly, it's what a lot of the idiots in this country needed to be told. Now let's hope they get the message, do what they've been told and get this thing over and done with

[Excalibur]

At least it's black and white now for the venues that are flouting the rules

* No weddings
* No gatherings of more than two people

Sadly, it's what a lot of the idiots in this country needed to be told. Now let's hope they get the message, do what they've been told and get this thing over and done with

As much as it pains me to do this:

:agree::approve::clap::thumbsup::clap2::youdaman:

[Benny Smyth]

What BoJo has been saying is as clear as day, but apparently still too complicated for the morons and stubborn folk of the world.

We want you to stay at home. We want you to stay at home because we cannot deal with this crap right now and the NHS is already too busy. We want to kick the can down the road to a time where the NHS is less busy so we can deal with this properly. No, I don't want to enforce Marshall Law because some of you getting the virus is actually a good thing, as it will lessen the numbers that need treatment when we do decide to open the floodgates and it will also go a tiny way to the herd immunity. That doesn't mean continue with going to car parks at night and flashing your lights at other suspiciously parked cars in the area. Do a weekly shop, go to work then stay home. If you decide to continue playing kiss chase in the park, I'm going to have to lock you guys up which will pee you off and guess what? That's just going to prolong this process.

Has BoJo been spying on these here forums?

:innocent:

[Imagine]

Has BoJo been spying on these here forums?

:innocent:

Don't even go there.
Liz is now paranoid about the exercise thing. We're in a rural village, rarely see anyone else whilst out on our three daily walks.....but wear Apple watches (because we need to close those rings don't ya know). Will they be watching to see where you've been and how many times you've been out? (puts tin foil hat on)

On a more serious note I've just seen draft legislation for the self employed. I'm reading 80% of your Net earnings per month based on the past three year's tax returns or something like a max of £2,900 a month (whichever is the lowest). That's OK if you've been doing the self employed lark seriously for three years. I'm only 11 months into year one, with previous years not being taken as seriously in the way of actually making money.....so that's going to be a big fat £0 per month then.

Ever wanted to curl up in the corner and cry?

[Benny Smyth]

Don't even go there.
Liz is now paranoid about the exercise thing. We're in a rural village, rarely see anyone else whilst out on our three daily walks.....but wear Apple watches (because we need to close those rings don't ya know). Will they be watching to see where you've been and how many times you've been out? (puts tin foil hat on)

On a more serious note I've just seen draft legislation for the self employed. I'm reading 80% of your Net earnings per month based on the past three year's tax returns or something like a max of £2,900 a month (whichever is the lowest). That's OK if you've been doing the self employed lark seriously for three years. I'm only 11 months into year one, with previous years not being taken as seriously in the way of actually making money.....so that's going to be a big fat £0 per month then.

Ever wanted to curl up in the corner and cry?

Sole traders were always going to be the difficult child. How much does a sole trader earn? I dare say (bloody hope so!) that we earn more than Traci who lives two doors down and prints your kids faces onto mugs. Only way to determine that is tax returns which will either work out really well or really terrible.

For those of us with a savvy accountant who have been doing our yearly tax returns, said accountant may have unintentionally screwed us over in this unique and unpredictable scenario.

[Imagine]

For those of us with a savvy accountant who have been doing our yearly tax returns, said accountant may have unintentionally screwed us over in this unique and unpredictable scenario.

Yup :(

Until last April, I had a nice cushy full time job which I was made redundant from. The disco was always run as a business, but not to the extent that I wanted to be out every week to avoid burnout/spend time with the dear lady wife.
Then Liz had a seizure, and then another one. I chose my gigs carefully around when people were available to be on-hand should something go wrong whilst I was working. Yr 1 (2019/2020) was never going to be a bumper year and we knew that from the outset (even my accountant knew what was happening). We topped things up from savings.

2020 was supposed to be the year. Things have (touch wood) settled with Liz, the bookings were flying in....life was going to be rosy doing a job I love.

And now it's all gone.....

Sorry - off to a very dark and horrible place somewhere at the back of my brain again for a couple of days whilst I process everything that's happening at the moment (anxiety really isn't a nice condition to be living with at the moment, but I'll get there).

In other news - PETER.....the decorating's still on ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915

[Excalibur]

In other news - PETER.....the decorating's still on ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52011915

Never mind B&Q, if they close their sister operation, Screwfix, I'm done for. :cry::cry:

Benny, yes I fear that our tax efficiency may bite us in the bum. Still, any help would be appreciated.

[DJ Jules]

The 80% net earnings thing works well for people with premises and/or sell goods who will see their rates and salaries covered and their costs heavily reduced because they're not buying stock. For anyone who works in the service industry it's better than nothing, but still not on a par with someone who is employed because a lot of our outgoings don't significantly reduce when we stop (advertising tends to be tied into yearly contracts, storage costs don't go away, vans and kit has to still be insured from theft/damage and lots of us work from home and rent/mortgage payments, heating/lighting/water/etc don't fully go away). Ok, we might be able to SORN vehicles (but not if they're our only vehicle) and we're not using fuel and unlikely to buy music, but that's about it.

I heard another great example today of someone who runs a small riding stable as a sole trader - you can't ask the horses to hibernate to keep costs down!

Julian

[cloudswiper]

Nothing better to do so thought I'd have a crack at yoga.

Wife's mat had the positions rated by difficulty 1 to 28.
Thought I would head straight for 28.

Turns out I'm a natural.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

That's the reschedules picking up now.

Managed to move 3 of them and not move 1 though I did pass them in the direction of my brother.

I'm keeping my booking fees - not had that conversation yet but I'm sure it will come.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I'm that bored that I'm doing the PAT a whole month early! I'm 180 items in out of about 500 and I lost the will to live already.

I don't expect to see a dirty fan, any broken lights or out of date documents when we all pick up again :D

[rth_discos]

I'm that bored that I'm doing the PAT a whole month early! I'm 180 items in out of about 500 and I lost the will to live already.

I don't expect to see a dirty fan, any broken lights or out of date documents when we all pick up again :D


Actually, this is a valid point you've inadvertently raised.

MOTs have been extended for 6 months. Wonder if any provision is due for PAT testing for example (it's unlikely I'll be able to get mine done in timescale), and it'll be hard to predict when to book in an alternative date!

[Pe7e]

https://www.pat.org.uk/pat-testing-frequency/

Although there are no requirements for PAT testing frequency, there are recommendations:

Offices, Shops and Hotels – Class 1 equipment including stationary and IT equipment should be tested every 48 months. Moveable equipment such as extension leads and portable equipment should be tested every 24 months. Handheld equipment should be tested every 12 months.

Schools – All Class 1 equipment in schools should be PAT tested every 12 months. Class 2 equipment should be tested every 48 months.

Public Use Equipment – Stationary and IT equipment such as computers should be tested every 12 months. Moveable, Portable and Handheld equipment falling into Class 2 should be tested every 12 months. Moveable, Portable and Handheld equipment falling into Class 1 should be tested every 6 months.

Construction – All 110V equipment used on construction sites should be tested every 3 months.

Industrial – All industrial sites, including commercial kitchens should have Portable and Handheld equipment tested every 6 months. Stationary, IT and Moveable equipment should be tested every 12 months.

[mattydj50]

My PAT testing vis due on 28 March. So, no point in getting it done as not only have I got no work but my PAT testing person can't do it anyway. So, technically then, my NADJ membership should lapse and my PLI invalidates. In practice, with no work, it doesn't matter much. I'll have to get it cracked off soon when all this is past

[Imagine]

My PAT testing vis due on 28 March. So, no point in getting it done as not only have I got no work but my PAT testing person can't do it anyway. So, technically then, my NADJ membership should lapse and my PLI invalidates. In practice, with no work, it doesn't matter much. I'll have to get it cracked off soon when all this is past

Your NADJ PLI is invalid anyway - the recent changes in the law have seen to that I'm afraid (I know, I asked).

As for the membership - I've been told to speak to the membership secretary on that one. I think under the current circumstances, they'll probably change this anyway seeing the change in the subscription rate for the time being.

My PAT is due at the end of April. Not going to bother until I know I'm going back out on the road, otherwise I'll likely be wasting 6 months + with the kit sitting in the lock up doing nothing.

[Excalibur]

Well in many of these respects, I've fallen on my feet. The splendid Davesounds tested my kit in February, just before he went off for a new knee. My van was repaired and MOT tested beginning of March, so I'm good in that respect. :)

I'm not a Nadger ( anyone who remembers Round The Horne, and Rambling Sid Rumpo would never countenance joining) and my PLI till June is through AmpDJ ( who have been uncharacteristically silent, now I come to think of it).

The only fly in my ointment is that my big lawnmower broke a cable, which I ordered on Monday to be posted. As it hasn't arrived, I guess it didn't get into the postal system before the dealer shut up shop. :(

[Excalibur]

Well, while trawling old threads, I came across a forecast of mine. Could be totally wrong, and totally accurate at the same time. :confused:





This year's out for many reasons, but: BPM 2020 will be a goer for me, cos it's looking likely that the impediment of harvesting spuds is in its final year for me.
Currently, the odds on it even going ahead could be looking distinctly poor. As to me attending, well lap of the Gods time. :(



Whether I'll still be a DJ in October 2020............................................:c onfused:

I suspect one or two other folk could be thinking along the same lines. As a great philosopher once said" It's a funny old game".

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Can't see BPM going ahead. Who's going to be wanting to spend any money in the current climate despite what the government have coughed up. That said I think it's been a good 4/5 years since I could make a BPM because of the newer dates.

[Marc J]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053914


The sting in the tail? The chancellor said he can no longer justify, after things get back to normal, that self-employed people pay less tax than the employed. But that is for another day.

I wasn't aware that we currently pay less? My allowance and tax rate is the same as any employed person earning the same as my profit. WTF?

[Sapphire Disco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053914



I wasn't aware that we currently pay less? My allowance and tax rate is the same as any employed person earning the same as my profit. WTF?


It's for people that own limited companies who take dividends rather than salary , of course there is one other big sting in the tail we won't mention , poetic justice some might say .

[Imagine]

Well that's nothing for me then.

Last three years show very little because every penny whilst I had a full time job was ploughed back into the business (and I have the receipts and a lock-up full of kit to prove it). Is that the unmentionable sting in the tail?

Back to drinking Lambrini instead of Rioja it is then :daft:

[Sapphire Disco]

Well that's nothing for me then.

Is that the unmentionable sting in the tail?

Back to drinking Lambrini instead of Rioja it is then :daft:


Lets just say if DJ ing is your full time job and you only made about 8 grand a year on your tax return , you wouldn't have paid any tax of course but now you'll only be able to claim about £500 a month business income support , so you might as well get a paid job or apply for universal credit now,although I don't know if you'll be able to claim both ?

[rth_discos]

It's for people that own limited companies who take dividends rather than salary , of course there is one other big sting in the tail we won't mention , poetic justice some might say .

Someone who owns a Limited Company and takes dividends isn't self employed - they are a director.

And most of the benefits of being paid via dividends have been reduced in recent years anyway.

Self employed do not pay less. They only pay tax on their profits. Which is no different to employees in many respects.

Plus, there has to be consideration for the risks that those who are self employed take.

The issue in this country isn't the self employed. It's the multi national companies who manage to divert their profits out of the country. Trying to run a coffee shop up against a Starbucks for example.

[Nakatomi]

Not that I was honestly expecting to be promised a wad of cash by the government today, but being someone whose main income isn't self employment I'll get nowt.

My heart goes out to you if this game is your only income & I hope you find a way through. As for those who operate under the HMRC's radar .. well they've had it coming for a long time. Would I really want to see Sidney out begging on the street for food though? Somehow I think his cunning mind will find something to get him through.

It's going to be a valuable lesson for a lot of people to live less in the now & always try to put some money aside when everything comes back on the level - whenever that's gonna be. Then we've got the joy of £220bn extra national debt to look forward to. Who's paying for all these handouts again? Oh yeah.. US!

[Imagine]

It's going to be a valuable lesson for a lot of people to live less in the now & always try to put some money aside when everything comes back on the level - whenever that's gonna be. Then we've got the joy of £220bn extra national debt to look forward to. Who's paying for all these handouts again? Oh yeah.. US!

I'm getting now't because of a clever accountant and the genuine and honest truth that I've spent every single penny I earned until last April when I went full time self employed on reinvestment. Seems like a very big mistake at the moment but this is the second time I've been in the position of being unemployed, and I've NEVER asked the state for help (call me old fashioned and stupid, but I'm also a very proud person that doesn't like to rely on handouts when others are more in need....does that make sense?).

My plan at the moment to tide us over is shelf filling or deliveries (have van, WILL work). BUT - over 200 people have applied to the local Tesco's alone....not much chance there then. Talking to people that have signed up as Amazon drivers last night, there's not a lot going there either (think Uber, but with a van). G's fresh (think salad stuff....they're just down the road from me) are offering £400 a week to pick lettuces and carrots....I'm not quite that desperate yet (it's bloody back breaking work with the amount of bending and my knees and sciatic nerve won't take it!)

Why don't I use my qualifications and experience as a software engineer in these tough times? Because there's no work (trust me, I've spoken to contacts who are struggling to get paid including one of last year's brides, plus when I was made redundant last year I vowed never to go into that game again....it's waaaay too stressful)

Yes, this IS my job, but I'm one of the few that will survive this thing. Liz works (just a couple of feet away from me at the dining room table at the moment!), and although her wages alone won't keep us afloat, it'll numb the pain. We've always built up savings (I can go another couple of years without panicking but would rather not run things down that far). Because of those two factors, Universal Credit is out of the question.

I'm good at what I do, my previous customers say so, and I had a bumper 2020 on the books with £30k of bookings in the bag (mainly all-day weddings and kids parties). Most of the weddings are now going to be in 2021 (thankfully they're all rescheduling and there have been some really heart-wrenching phone calls over the past couple of weeks). For the first time ever, it looked like I could actually earn a decent crust from doing a job I LOVE!

More worryingly though....I was on a Zoom meeting last night with some of the REALLY big "multi award-winning" names in the industry (and they've always been an inspiration and have personally taught me a lot of secrets). They are absolutely and quite rightly passing bricks at the moment and are unlikely to survive the current storm...and that's quite scary - especially if you know who they are.

As for how this will be paid back?

Ltd company perks such as tax breaks on taking a dividend will go (they've been reducing those for years anyway). The rest? My bet is an increase in the VAT rate. It's the fairest way - the biggest consumers pay the most and it's one hell of a treasure chest.

Don't forget as well that there will be a bumper tax payment to UKGov in January from the deferred second payments which are due in July ;)

My honest predictions for the coming year (2020/21)....

* We'll see a massive boost in weddings and parties once the restrictions are lifted...for a short while. These will all be postponements which have carried forward. It will be very short lived.
* SID will have become bored, sold his kit and moved onto other things
* Weddings will become smaller affairs such as a marquee in the back garden. I'm more than prepared for those and do a lot of them already (happy days)
* Big venue (hotels, stately homes etc.) weddings will be a thing of the past (the venues won't survive this). I'm banking on a lot of blank-canvas weddings in marquees and tipis in the middle of nowhere (and I'm READY for those).
* Interactive kids parties where you play games and talk to the guests will survive (there's a definite outdoing the friends thing in that market)

Things are going to get tougher, and we're going to have to fight even harder for every gig if we're to survive in the future.

Challenge accepted!

[Excalibur]

As for those who operate under the HMRC's radar .. well they've had it coming for a long time. Would I really want to see Sidney out begging on the street for food though? Somehow I think his cunning mind will find something to get him through.


Someone else brought this up on Fb. Hurrah! :) Mind you, Sid probably is on 80% of his PAYE income, cos he had a main job, so I don't expect it will cull many of his herd. :(


I'm getting now't because of a clever accountant and the genuine and honest truth that I've spent every single penny I earned until last April when I went full time self employed on reinvestment.
Fully expected you to fall outside the safety net. Hope you find something to put a crust on the table. For what it's worth, the chancellors system will work passably well for me, I'm currently working on a pig farm, and I have one or two of those as customers near me, so hopefully that will get me to June and beyond. .



My honest predictions for the coming year (2020/21)....

* We'll see a massive boost in weddings and parties once the restrictions are lifted...for a short while. These will all be postponements which have carried forward. It will be very short lived. Correct.
* SID will have become bored, sold his kit and moved onto other things. If only!
* Weddings will become smaller affairs such as a marquee in the back garden. I'm more than prepared for those and do a lot of them already (happy days) Smaller and therefore ( in clients' eyes) cheaper.
* Big venue (hotels, stately homes etc.) weddings will be a thing of the past (the venues won't survive this). I'm banking on a lot of blank-canvas weddings in marquees and tipis in the middle of nowhere (and I'm READY for those). Me too. Love them.
* Interactive kids parties where you play games and talk to the guests will survive (there's a definite outdoing the friends thing in that market). I was with you all the way, up to this bit. That's a bridge too far, even for me. :mad:

Things are going to get tougher, and we're going to have to fight even harder for every gig if we're to survive in the future.

Challenge accepted!

The lad's pretty much on the money. Well said.

[rth_discos]

Ltd company perks such as tax breaks on taking a dividend will go (they've been reducing those for years anyway). The rest? My bet is an increase in the VAT rate. It's the fairest way - the biggest consumers pay the most and it's one hell of a treasure chest.

Agreed about dividends. That has to change.

But I don't agree with raising VAT. It disproportionately affects the lowest paid.

The easiest fix is clamping down on the multi national companies who transfer their profits out of the country.

Starbucks for example pays a huge 'license fee' on each cup of coffee sold, so that the profit that would be taxable in this country ends up in another country, where the tax is far lower. That needs to be clamped down on. Not only so that we get some of the tax we're due, but also so there's a level playing field.

Having been to the likes of Germany, Spain and Italy in the last couple of years, the UK is over-run with national chains compared to those countries. Sure, they have some national chains, but there's also lots of independent shops and coffee shops. They have a level playing field against the national corporations.

That's how we entice people back to setting up their own businesses, and bringing some individuality back on the high street (I don't holiday in the UK any more as I don't want to go to another part of the country to find a clone of my own high street).

It's a myth that we need to pay this back. We can print the money. They said they were going to provide a £330bn package. Instead of giving that to those big corporations, they could have just sent every adult in the UK £5k in to their bank account. Think what difference that could have made...

The easiest way to 'pay this back' is to make the debt smaller. Mass inflation can achieve that.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

As expected, these measures won't help me due to my teaching wage.

Totally appreciate that I'm very fortunate to be in that situation but in real terms it's still potentially a £20k+ kick in the nads as far as this years earnings go.

My wife works for KPMG and although there's no signs of it, I do worry about her stability long term. She's in that kind of grey area between management management and worker ant which tend to be the first ones to go in cost cutting measures. I hope I'm just being pessimistic.

[DJColsie]

As expected, these measures won't help me

Totally appreciate that I'm very fortunate to be in that situation but in real terms it's still a kick in the nads.

Snap. DJing is about 35% of my income so nothing for me. :(:(:(:(

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Just now I've been pretty lucky in that all but one reschedule I've been able to accommodate.

My only concern is a lot of them are only moving things a few months so we could be going through this all again come June and July if lock down and travel restrictions continue.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Just now I've been pretty lucky in that all but one reschedule I've been able to accommodate.

My only concern is a lot of them are only moving things a few months so we could be going through this all again come June and July if lock down and travel restrictions continue.

That's becoming a big concern for myself now as well sadly. Fingers crossed we're out of this by end of April but who knows at this point.

[rth_discos]

That's becoming a big concern for myself now as well sadly. Fingers crossed we're out of this by end of April but who knows at this point.

I can say with 99% confidence we're not coming out of this by the end of April. We keep hearing on the TV 12 weeks.

Even when we do, things will come back to life slowly. There won't be a sudden 'end'.

Sadly, it's unlikely that large gatherings (pubs, clubs, venues etc) will come back online until the very end.

For those who rely on this to pay the bills, I would assume worst case scenario that the whole year is wiped out and start taking action now to bring in revenue via another means (if the self assessment amount doesn't worm out for you).

Should it end earlier, see it as a bonus.

I'm crossing fingers we can get back to weddings in Aug/Sept, but I believe that's an earliest, and even then I'm only 50% confident.

** EDIT **

Based on what we're seeing in Italy, etc, the number of deaths are going to keep the registrars very busy. I can't see the registration of weddings (civil ceremonies) being back for a long time because of that. I think that could be the factor that delays weddings the most, as there could be a big backlog of death registrations to get through.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

** EDIT **

Based on what we're seeing in Italy, etc, the number of deaths are going to keep the registrars very busy. I can't see the registration of weddings (civil ceremonies) being back for a long time because of that. I think that could be the factor that delays weddings the most, as there could be a big backlog of death registrations to get through.

I'd never even though of that but you may be on to something depending on how it affects people putting in their M10s. I dunno about down south but the vast majority of weddings now are done by humanists imo as opposed to ministers or registrars so it might NOT be that bad but certainly folk may need to be a bit pragmatic even if that means going through the whole shebang they've booked and paid for then getting the legal stuff sorted later on.

On the upside I've taken a couple of more completely new bookings this week so when this does blow over, things will hopefully be looking sweet.

I recently bumped my prices up quite a bit and I think (I could be wrong) that it'll be the guys in the £3-600 bracket that end up feeling the pinch when this blows over as the cheaper guys will always find work and folk who are still stable financially and have dough to throw at their wedding will want to go big with the suppliers.

[rth_discos]

I'd never even though of that but you may be on to something depending on how it affects people putting in their M10s. I dunno about down south but the vast majority of weddings now are done by humanists imo as opposed to ministers or registrars so it might NOT be that bad but certainly folk may need to be a bit pragmatic even if that means going through the whole shebang they've booked and paid for then getting the legal stuff sorted later on.

I've only seen one humanist wedding (I work in the South) and that was more because of the location they wanted to get married (not licensed). So they did the paperwork the day before.

But even on that basis if you don't know when you can get legally married, it's another reason to hold off.

Sadly, bad news all round.

[ppentertainments]

** EDIT **

Based on what we're seeing in Italy, etc, the number of deaths are going to keep the registrars very busy. I can't see the registration of weddings (civil ceremonies) being back for a long time because of that. I think that could be the factor that delays weddings the most, as there could be a big backlog of death registrations to get through.

I have been hearing that a lot of registrars are refusing to take weddings until after 1st September AND THEN only taking rescheduled weddings, with new bookings not being taken until 2021.

[Benny Smyth]

I am really tempted to email every client until the end of August and just say "Stuff it, you're all released from your contracts. If you want me for your new date, just let me know and we'll start again."

I've accepted that 2020 is written off. I'm just gonna focus on saving 2021.

[Imagine]

I am really tempted to email every client until the end of August and just say "Stuff it, you're all released from your contracts. If you want me for your new date, just let me know and we'll start again."

I've accepted that 2020 is written off. I'm just gonna focus on saving 2021.

I've already emailed them Benny. Most of them at the moment are still blindly holding on to the hope that things will be back to normal by then (mainly dare I say it, because their venues aren't playing very fairly). On the other side of the coin, some registrars that I've heard from are saying weddings are unlikely until September at the earliest because they're anticipating the paperwork for so many deaths :(

Curiously, September's couples seem to be more on the ball and are making the first move before I've contacted them. Alternative arrangements are pencilled into the diary "just in case" for all bar two of them. I'm starting to get calls and emails from October now as well :o

What worried me yesterday was something that was let slip in the daily briefing from Downing Street. It was mentioned some form of social distancing (I heard it as gatherings, pubs, clubs etc) will be needed until after the flu season next winter to prevent another possible spike on the health service. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Christmas/New Year happen this year due to that, and the fact that a lot of the corporates aren't going to be able to afford to actually DO anything.

I too have pretty much written off 2020, which took a while to come to terms with because it was the first year where I was actually going to be able to make a living from this. We have enough of a buffer to weather the storm, plus Liz works (hence no Universal Credit), so I'm going to be rebuilding ready to come back ahead of the game next year.

[rth_discos]

Everything might now go quiet for a bit.

Furloughing seems to have kicked in. Many venues have now shut down, closed the doors and furloughed their staff.

That means they aren't taking any enquiries for weddings or managing existing clients. So any existing client that wants to re-arrange a new date with the venue won't get very far right now.

[DJColsie]

I had an enquiry from an old work colleague about a new wedding in October or November. Gave him some dates I was free. He went off to phone the registrars.

Came back to me about 5 hours later to say the registrars are not taking any new wedding bookings for 2020. They are gonna be concentrating on deaths! They did say try calling back towards the end of the year!

[mattydj50]

Everything might now go quiet for a bit.

Furloughing seems to have kicked in. Many venues have now shut down, closed the doors and furloughed their staff.

That means they aren't taking any enquiries for weddings or managing existing clients. So any existing client that wants to re-arrange a new date with the venue won't get very far right now.


That appears to be what's happened at my venue. I picked up from Facebook that the hotel, leisure facility and golf club have all closed furno. Not one e-mail or phone call from the venue, from whom ALL of my work comes.

I had one booking on 18 April that moved to 17 April 2020. Then, I have a weddings booked there on 2 and 26 May that, in theory, as I have had no notification, are still taking place. Gloucester Old Spots anybody?

They have never been noted for their communication skills but it is, in my mind, even in these unique times, extremely rude and unprofessional not to even let your supplier know what the situation is.

And just to twist things even further, the last e-mail I did get from them was a booking for a wedding in September!

[Nakatomi]

That appears to be what's happened at my venue. I picked up from Facebook that the hotel, leisure facility and golf club have all closed furno. Not one e-mail or phone call from the venue, from whom ALL of my work comes.

I had one booking on 18 April that moved to 17 April 2020. Then, I have a weddings booked there on 2 and 26 May that, in theory, as I have had no notification, are still taking place. Gloucester Old Spots anybody?

They have never been noted for their communication skills but it is, in my mind, even in these unique times, extremely rude and unprofessional not to even let your supplier know what the situation is.

And just to twist things even further, the last e-mail I did get from them was a booking for a wedding in September!

18th of April was one date I'd had literally umpteen enquiries for - I was originally booked almost a year ago to play at the hotel where I do most my work - then the couple cancelled with 6 weeks to go in favour of a 'DJ who sings' (aka crooner with a Macbook, I assume). I was disappointed & was tempted to chase up the folks who'd originally enquired - then this whole virus thing started breaking out here.

Yes it'd be lovely if all venues were perfect examples of how to conduct business with suppliers. I'm really lucky to have such a great relationship with a nice venue. The only time I've ever been messed about - was when a customer had cancelled me 2 months before their wedding day, then changed their mind on the day - TWICE. By all accounts I dodged a bullet with that one :D

[rth_discos]

They have never been noted for their communication skills but it is, in my mind, even in these unique times, extremely rude and unprofessional not to even let your supplier know what the situation is.


To be fair, staff won't be given much notice of Furlough.

They will be told one day that they are on furlough, and that's it. No time to really communicate. The best you'll get is either a notice on the website explaining the situation or an email auto-responder.

And that even applies to people wanting to book with the venue - they won't be able to (unless they've left one member of staff on to manage those enquiries). A friend of mine is getting married next year and the venue furloughed all of the staff the day before they were due to receive the contract and pay the deposit. So they now have a reserved date, but can't actually sign the contract and pay the deposit until they are back at work again!

[Excalibur]

And that even applies to people wanting to book with the venue - they won't be able to (unless they've left one member of staff on to manage those enquiries). A friend of mine is getting married next year and the venue furloughed all of the staff the day before they were due to receive the contract and pay the deposit. So they now have a reserved date, but can't actually sign the contract and pay the deposit until they are back at work again!

Now perhaps I'm looking at this with an over simplified logic, but surely, if you're running a business of this nature, there's got to be a phone number or email belonging to someone who can act as " Night Watchman", hasn't there? :confused:

[rth_discos]

Now perhaps I'm looking at this with an over simplified logic, but surely, if you're running a business of this nature, there's got to be a phone number or email belonging to someone who can act as " Night Watchman", hasn't there? :confused:

The difficulty is you can't part-furlough someone.

So you either rertain them on their salary, or furlough them.

For a venue with no revenue coming in, every penny will count right now. As a venue can't do any viewings, it's unlikely they'll get any new enquiries they can turn in to a booking right now, so everything is just on 'pause' at the moment.

[DJ Jules]

For a venue with no revenue coming in, every penny will count right now. As a venue can't do any viewings, it's unlikely they'll get any new enquiries they can turn in to a booking right now, so everything is just on 'pause' at the moment.

While I suspect you're right, I find this incredibly frustrating. Despite the uncertainty, couples are still using this time to plan for 2021 and 2022. If venues and registrars close their doors to new bookings it shuts down the pipeline of work for all of the related industries as couples can't confirm dates/venues.

Julian

[rth_discos]

If venues and registrars close their doors to new bookings

And it's likely that registrars not even discussing anything wedding related at the moment is the reason why venues have closed fully. If you can't even confirm a date with the registrar, then you won't be booking your venue. And you're right, sadly, that has a knock on effect.

Deposits will be hard to get at the moment - which can be cashflow lifeline. Sadly, the implications of this are going to be far stretching.

[Imagine]

I believe I might have just secured a booking in these troubled times, and I don't even have to leave the house to do it!

It's an old friend who wants something for her daughters birthday in May (yes, I know we won't be back by then, but here's the good bit)....
She's got a Zoom account with 100 connections - we're talking virtual birthday parties here :o

I need to look into the technicalities of streaming from the kit straight into Zoom first, especially after the complications I had with tonight's live stream, and even then I'm likely to do this first one as a freebie (or at least just the cost of a decent bottle of red).

Could this be the future for now?

[rth_discos]

Denmark could be an indicator of what is ahead for us.

Worth nothing that they started the lockdown quicker than us, so it looks like they will be able to lift restrictions sooner than us:

"Denmark will reopen day cares and schools for children in first to fifth grade starting 15 April if the numbers of coronavirus cases and deaths remain stable, the country’s prime minister has said.

Other restrictions will remain in place until at least 10 May and the ban on big gatherings will stay until August."

Big gatherings being the relevant term for 'weddings'.

[DJ Jules]

Don't be tempted to throw a private party this weekend :D Especially not one "with a DJ, bouncy castle and Fireworks" :zip:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688

[Imagine]

Don't be tempted to throw a private party this weekend :D Especially not one "with a DJ, bouncy castle and Fireworks" :zip:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688

You can't quarantine stupid :o

[Benny Smyth]

Had an enquiry today from a couple who've had their date moved due to the coronavirus.

From June 2020 to August 2020.

I'm not sure what surprises me more: the fact that the venue are willing to move a wedding from June to August, or the irresponsibility of doing so. They'll only have to postpone it again...

[ppentertainments]

Had an enquiry today from a couple who've had their date moved due to the coronavirus.

From June 2020 to August 2020.

I'm not sure what surprises me more: the fact that the venue are willing to move a wedding from June to August, or the irresponsibility of doing so. They'll only have to postpone it again...
Problem is, a venue cannot say no otherwise they are then liable for refunds, including any deposits.

It is the same reason why venues will not (or should not) contact people to make arrangements to postpone.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Problem is, a venue cannot say no otherwise they are then liable for refunds, including any deposits.

It is the same reason why venues will not (or should not) contact people to make arrangements to postpone.

Yeah it's essentially the same reason that we as parties to a contract should be cracking on as if the dates are going ahead until told in black and white otherwise by our clients.

Sucks but the reality is we run businesses, small businesses, but businesses all the same and I've been saying it since day 1 that this kicked off - how we conduct ourselves just now is going to determine how the business comes out the other end.

I'm being pragmatic and have managed to reschedule all but one couple - as per t's and c's I keep the deposit, they haven't got back to argue the bit about it.

I'm not "pencilling in dates just incase" for anyone, if it turns out you do need to move and I am still available then great but I'm not going to black out a date for 2021 until I know for sure it's being filled. Next year is probably going to be stupidly busy and yes, there's going to be a lot of blacked out dates due to ones moved but we don't need to confound the impact it has...



Likewise I see people on wedding groups offering discounts. WHY? 2021 is going to be a crazy year for bookings and if you've got a few IQ points to rub together, those extra dates will materialise and will be making up for loss of earnings in 2020 - why would you go out for even less? I know the general consensus is that we're all going to be skint but it's supply and demand - guaranteed TUI will be charging more for their holidays next year. Why? because EVERYONE who wanted to go on holiday this year will be dying to go next year. Same as everyone getting married in 2021, they'll be dying to get it done and in a big way.

[Marc J]

I know the general consensus is that we're all going to be skint but it's supply and demand - guaranteed TUI will be charging more for their holidays next year. Why? because EVERYONE who wanted to go on holiday this year will be dying to go next year. Same as everyone getting married in 2021, they'll be dying to get it done and in a big way.

A friend of mine was due to get married 3 weeks ago. That obviously didn't happen. He reckons they'll now never get married, and doesn't seem too put out by that.... says a lot about his fiancée :eek:;)

[Excalibur]

Y


Likewise I see people on wedding groups offering discounts. WHY? 2021 is going to be a crazy year for bookings and if you've got a few IQ points to rub together, those extra dates will materialise and will be making up for loss of earnings in 2020 - why would you go out for even less?
I'd be inclined to say that's wishful thinking. I have a suspicion that as this rumbles on, a lot of folk are going to take a financial hit. I reckon a lot of weddings will go onto the back burner in 2021, until their funds increase. I reckon we will be doing mainly parties, anniversaries, and even wakes/celebrations of life this year, but few weddings.


A friend of mine was due to get married 3 weeks ago. That obviously didn't happen. He reckons they'll now never get married, and doesn't seem too put out by that.... says a lot about his fiancée :eek:;)

Never say never, but I do think many couples will delay weddings, and not be like greyhounds straining at the leash as soon as the Registrars fire the starting gun.

[DJColsie]

It’s only right to expect the clients to be “feeling the pinch” and making economies once we come out of this. So if booking a wedding was on their todo list then most will have a smaller budget I think.

You may get some that are to be funded by retired Mum & Dad who haven’t been affected so budget is in tact but I think these will be in the minority.

[DJWilson]

Likewise I see people on wedding groups offering discounts. WHY? 2021 is going to be a crazy year for bookings and if you've got a few IQ points to rub together, those extra dates will materialise and will be making up for loss of earnings in 2020 - why would you go out for even less? I know the general consensus is that we're all going to be skint but it's supply and demand - guaranteed TUI will be charging more for their holidays next year. Why? because EVERYONE who wanted to go on holiday this year will be dying to go next year. Same as everyone getting married in 2021, they'll be dying to get it done and in a big way.

I'm guessing their mindset is, take a lower rate booking for next year but get the deposit in the bank today to cushion this years losses.

[DJColsie]

GERMANY

Schools opening 4th May.

Large public gatherings will remain banned until 31 August. Bars, cafes, restaurants, cinemas and music venues will all remain closed.

[Excalibur]

I'm guessing their mindset is, take a lower rate booking for next year but get the deposit in the bank today to cushion this years losses.

That's a logical way of looking at things.

[Benny Smyth]

Likewise I see people on wedding groups offering discounts. WHY? 2021 is going to be a crazy year for bookings and if you've got a few IQ points to rub together, those extra dates will materialise and will be making up for loss of earnings in 2020 - why would you go out for even less? I know the general consensus is that we're all going to be skint but it's supply and demand - guaranteed TUI will be charging more for their holidays next year. Why? because EVERYONE who wanted to go on holiday this year will be dying to go next year. Same as everyone getting married in 2021, they'll be dying to get it done and in a big way.

To add some weight to this, I would say that today I have had the most number of enquries that I have ever received in a 24 hour period (I'm not willy waving - obviously folk have naff all to do but a bit of Wedmin at the moment) and of those enquiries, I've already converted 3. No doubt an anomaly, but the enquries have started to return over the last week or two and with the exception of today, I am currently running on par with my usual numbers. YTD, I'm actually up on the number of enquiries over last year and that includes a two week period of getting nothing through.

Weddings will be smaller and I suspect the dancefloor will be hit hard with Covid-19 being in the backs of people's minds (I don't think alcohol intake will change that either), but I dare say that there will still be a market for us without needing to drop fees.

[Imagine]

To add some weight to this, I would say that today I have had the most number of enquries that I have ever received in a 24 hour period

Funny you should mention that Benny. Not had any enquiries yet, but the website is starting to look like it's coming back to life.
I've gone from having a blinding year of traffic and enquiries, to absolutely dead since this thing kicked off (literally entire DAYS with no visitors to the site at all), to nearly back to normal traffic since Easter.

Maybe, just maybe people are starting to get over the shock of what's going on and starting to plan again :luck::luck::luck:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

To add some weight to this, I would say that today I have had the most number of enquries that I have ever received in a 24 hour period (I'm not willy waving - obviously folk have naff all to do but a bit of Wedmin at the moment) and of those enquiries, I've already converted 3. No doubt an anomaly, but the enquries have started to return over the last week or two and with the exception of today, I am currently running on par with my usual numbers. YTD, I'm actually up on the number of enquiries over last year and that includes a two week period of getting nothing through.

Weddings will be smaller and I suspect the dancefloor will be hit hard with Covid-19 being in the backs of people's minds (I don't think alcohol intake will change that either), but I dare say that there will still be a market for us without needing to drop fees.

I've not experienced anything like that but I have secured a good few bookings for new dates, since this started, at my new rate which even 6 months ago I would have thought would be a big ask to get people to pay so I'm not being too pessimistic as yet - people are going to be tightening their belts but folk have spent tonnes of weddings, wether they could afford it or not, for a long time, what we may see if the more intimate but "special" weddings with smaller numbers but them really going for quality at which point high end DJs will be in high demand, perhaps more so than just now.

I could of course be horribly wrong with the wedding game and if I am that'll be it for Scotland's Party DJ - over 95% of my gigs year on year are weddings and it's been this way since I set the business up - I'm not going to change and start doing parties or seriously chasing corporate work (which I think absolutely will be hammered) just to keep things going, I've always said if I didn't enjoy it anymore, I'd chuck it, have considered it a few times but that would definitely push me to hang up the headphones.

[Vectis]

Seems like the anecdotal evidence matches what we're seeing on NaD - things were going extremely well until mid March (up to 8x increase in enquiries compared to 2019) and then suddenly (and understandably) fell off a cliff. However during the same period site visitors are well and truly up - probably averaging about 2x 2019's number - so plenty of window shoppers but very few buyers.

This last week or so has seen the first signs of recovery and I'm pretty sure that once there's a bit more certainty about when things are likely to start returning to some kind of normal the floodgates will open.

Having a quick skim through recent enquiry details this morning and the majority seem to be 2021/2022 weddings - perhaps those rescheduling that can't have their original DJ?

If there's any interest in these kind of stats I'm happy to post more as we go forward. On this particular graph the pink line is a datum from 2019. Blue is enquiry volumes compared to 2019 (percentage) and green is site visitors compared to 2019.

18867

[Imagine]

Hmmmm....wouldn't get too excited about dusting off the kit and partying just yet boys and girls :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52305053?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5e98194cc09b50066d5b0d6a%26UK%20%27to% 20need%20social%20distancing%20until%20vaccine%20r eady%27%262020-04-16T08%3A52%3A31.481Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:35e8df54-6e7d-4bac-ad50-5ca3f7556c33&pinned_post_asset_id=5e98194cc09b50066d5b0d6a&pinned_post_type=share

[DJ Jules]

Hmmmm....wouldn't get too excited about dusting off the kit and partying just yet boys and girls :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52305053?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5e98194cc09b50066d5b0d6a%26UK%20%27to% 20need%20social%20distancing%20until%20vaccine%20r eady%27%262020-04-16T08%3A52%3A31.481Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:35e8df54-6e7d-4bac-ad50-5ca3f7556c33&pinned_post_asset_id=5e98194cc09b50066d5b0d6a&pinned_post_type=share

....or until there is sufficient testing available (for both antibodies and the infection) to be able to prove that we have built up a level of herd immunity. The US states that are considering re-opening are still saying that major events will not resume until 2021.

P.S. Martin - that's a very timely post, considering I got my renewal reminder on Tuesday :D

[Imagine]

Funny you should mention that Benny. Not had any enquiries yet, but the website is starting to look like it's coming back to life.
I've gone from having a blinding year of traffic and enquiries, to absolutely dead since this thing kicked off (literally entire DAYS with no visitors to the site at all), to nearly back to normal traffic since Easter.

Maybe, just maybe people are starting to get over the shock of what's going on and starting to plan again :luck::luck::luck:


BOOM

Two, yes TWO enquiries from out of nowhere today :). Things are looking up (they're the first I've had since the lockdown!).
One is unfortunately for a date I'm already booked for later this year, and I can't actually foresee the one that's already booked going ahead let alone today's enquiry.
The other, a nice expensive wedding for 2022 :)

[Imagine]

BOOM

Two, yes TWO enquiries from out of nowhere today :). Things are looking up (they're the first I've had since the lockdown!).
One is unfortunately for a date I'm already booked for later this year, and I can't actually foresee the one that's already booked going ahead let alone today's enquiry.
The other, a nice expensive wedding for 2022 :)

Aaaaand the 2022 is in the back of the net :)

Things are very slowly starting to look up again

[Imagine]

Aaaaand the 2022 is in the back of the net :)

Things are very slowly starting to look up again

Or they were starting to look up again, until I read this Coronavirus: Social restrictions 'to remain for rest of year' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52389285)

I think most of us are probably resigned to the fact that 2020's a write off, but the way the article's written, it looks like about this time next year before they'll consider "normal" things like gatherings to happen again unless a vaccine comes along soon :(

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Or they were starting to look up again, until I read this Coronavirus: Social restrictions 'to remain for rest of year' (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52389285)

I think most of us are probably resigned to the fact that 2020's a write off, but the way the article's written, it looks like about this time next year before they'll consider "normal" things like gatherings to happen again unless a vaccine comes along soon :(

Yeah, I think the first wave of my couples (late March April) were railroaded and everyone else was waiting to see what happens. Now I'm inundated with couples from the Summer and beyond wanting to move to next year.

[Excalibur]

I feel a little sorry for one of my couples. Booked for a big wedding July 2019, postponed to July 2020 due to bride's pregnancy. I can easily see this virus postponing it to July 2021. Just in time for me to retire*.








* Retirement has been considered many times, and never happened as planned. With the backlog of weddings to reschedule for " this year, next year, sometime never", it's currently looking like :fp:

[rth_discos]

I feel a little sorry for one of my couples. Booked for a big wedding July 2019, postponed to July 2020 due to bride's pregnancy. I can easily see this virus postponing it to July 2021.

Mine was the other way round.

I was due to do their wedding this weekend just gone.

Towards the end of last year they enquired about bringing it forward to January. Happy to oblige - the beginning of the year is always quiet anway.

Turned out she was pregnant and wanted to get married before getting too big for the dress.

We had a great night - and that was the last wedding I performed at! Little did we know at the time what was around the corner!

[ppentertainments]

I feel a little sorry for one of my couples. Booked for a big wedding July 2019, postponed to July 2020 due to bride's pregnancy. I can easily see this virus postponing it to July 2021. Just in time for me to retire*.


I had one who are (were) getting married abroad but having the usual wedding breakfast/evening celebrations in this country.

First attempt, postponed due to Thomas Cook going bust
They should be flying back today from their second attempt, with the party on Saturday, which obviously hasn't gone ahead.

The bride did email to say they are seriously thinking of giving it up as a bad job and just the 2 of them going to the registry office sometime.

[Imagine]

I had one who are (were) getting married abroad but having the usual wedding breakfast/evening celebrations in this country.

First attempt, postponed due to Thomas Cook going bust
They should be flying back today from their second attempt, with the party on Saturday, which obviously hasn't gone ahead.

I've got one of these which I'm waiting for an email/phone call from to postpone at the moment (it's the end of July).
Supposed to be marrying in Gretna during the week (which won't happen now), and then party in a Marquee on the Saturday evening. An "admin" error at the venue saw the date being double booked (the other couple actually have the same first names!), so it was moved to the Friday night instead.

Looking at my email tracking, she's been reading the emails from when she booked today, so it's only a matter of time before she gets in touch :(

[rth_discos]

So another postponement today (was meant to be an August wedding)

In a way, I'm preferring them to be postponing early than leaving it til the last minute.

However, I'm amazed at how many people are just contacting me to let me know of the new date. Around 25% of my couples have mentioned a date they have in mind and wanted to check it's convenient first before committing to that date. But the majority are just emailing to say they've had to postpone, and this is the new date!

Fortunately, I've been available for all of them, but I'm dreading the conversation I need to have should the date clash.

[Imagine]

However, I'm amazed at how many people are just contacting me to let me know of the new date. Around 25% of my couples have mentioned a date they have in mind and wanted to check it's convenient first before committing to that date. But the majority are just emailing to say they've had to postpone, and this is the new date!


That's interesting.

I have a problem with most of mine in that they don't normally communicate much (most of mine are booked etc. via email and there's no real relationship there which appears to put me in a minority). The first physical contact is normally 30 minutes before the first dance on the day!

However, ALL of mine have been asking for availability over a range of dates and trying to fit as many suppliers to the same date as possible. In fact I have a lot of mid-week weddings next year as a result because a lot of the other suppliers (mainly venues) are playing a very tough game (and I really can't work that way, so in a way it's making me look super flexible and the hero of the hour :) ).

I had a couple on Monday who were originally due to be married on 2nd July at a very nice venue I've worked in several times in the past (it's a nice Tudor mansion, oak panelling throughout....absolutely gorgeous!). Always got on really well there too. It's obviously not happening this year so they asked everyone if they could postpone to the same Friday next year. No problem for most of us, apart from the venue who are insisting that postponements MUST take place before the end of March 2021. Are they really thinking mass gatherings will be allowed by then? (I'm not!)

The end result, after a lot of arguments the couple have lost all faith in said venue and their customer service skills (apparently there's been a LOT of grief) and have lost the fee for the day (not just the deposit....the ENTIRE FEE). They paid upfront and there's no chance of a refund because they've cancelled. Although contractually the venue's in the right, it's really surprised me that they've acted in such a way given the current circumstances.

[ppentertainments]

So another postponement today (was meant to be an August wedding)

In a way, I'm preferring them to be postponing early than leaving it til the last minute.

However, I'm amazed at how many people are just contacting me to let me know of the new date. Around 25% of my couples have mentioned a date they have in mind and wanted to check it's convenient first before committing to that date. But the majority are just emailing to say they've had to postpone, and this is the new date!

Fortunately, I've been available for all of them, but I'm dreading the conversation I need to have should the date clash.
Realistically though, the DJ is one of the most insignificant suppliers. If registrar and venue can offer a date, other suppliers will be asked or alternatives sourced

[rth_discos]

The end result, after a lot of arguments the couple have lost all faith in said venue and their customer service skills (apparently there's been a LOT of grief) and have lost the fee for the day (not just the deposit....the ENTIRE FEE). They paid upfront and there's no chance of a refund because they've cancelled. Although contractually the venue's in the right, it's really surprised me that they've acted in such a way given the current circumstances.

They are absolutely due a refund, apart from the booking fee at most. The venue cannot retain the profits from the day, and their initial date will either have been cancelled due to social distancing requirements, or is so far in the future that the venue won't have incurred any costs (ie, ordered food, committed to staff etc).

The venue would not win at a small claims court. If I were the couple I'd be getting my money back.


Realistically though, the DJ is one of the most insignificant suppliers. If registrar and venue can offer a date, other suppliers will be asked or alternatives sourced

Just seems a bit short sighted to not check first - and then make a decision. Otherwise, they're at risk of losing their deposit and then having the faff of finding another supplier.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

They are absolutely due a refund, apart from the booking fee at most. The venue cannot retain the profits from the day, and their initial date will either have been cancelled due to social distancing requirements, or is so far in the future that the venue won't have incurred any costs (ie, ordered food, committed to staff etc).

The venue would not win at a small claims court. If I were the couple I'd be getting my money back.




The venue very well could win in court depending on the t's and c's as there's consensus in idem - it is the couple that have cancelled on them after all.

[Benny Smyth]

The venue very well could win in court depending on the t's and c's as there's consensus in idem - it is the couple that have cancelled on them after all.

Bingo. Don't assume every contract in the wedding industry is as watertight as a colander. Turns out, some folk actually get them drawn up by solicitors and don't just copy and paste them from their mate.

[rth_discos]

The venue very well could win in court depending on the t's and c's as there's consensus in idem - it is the couple that have cancelled on them after all.

Even then it's not that black and white. The circumstances around why the couple have cancelled are very valid.

But this provides good guidance for what is typically 'fair'

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedding-venues-advised-to-play-fair

[Excalibur]

However, I'm amazed at how many people are just contacting me to let me know of the new date. Around 25% of my couples have mentioned a date they have in mind and wanted to check it's convenient first before committing to that date. But the majority are just emailing to say they've had to postpone, and this is the new date!

Fortunately, I've been available for all of them, but I'm dreading the conversation I need to have should the date clash.
I'm dreading it also. A lot. :(:luck:


Realistically though, the DJ is one of the most insignificant suppliers. If registrar and venue can offer a date, other suppliers will be asked or alternatives sourced
Wash your mouth out with soap!! :mad: Insignificant? We're the main event. ;):)

Pills taken, yes Chris, replacing an unavailable disco should be the easiest task, I'd think.


Bingo. Don't assume every contract in the wedding industry is as watertight as a colander. Turns out, some folk actually get them drawn up by solicitors and don't just copy and paste them from their mate.

In light of recent events, I'm certainly tightening mine up. The Zombie Apocalypse is definitely going in now, as well as Black Death and Rabies. ;)

[DJ Jules]

They are absolutely due a refund, apart from the booking fee at most. The venue cannot retain the profits from the day, and their initial date will either have been cancelled due to social distancing requirements, or is so far in the future that the venue won't have incurred any costs (ie, ordered food, committed to staff etc).

The venue would not win at a small claims court. If I were the couple I'd be getting my money back.

That really depends what happens between now and the 2nd of July. If they're still in a position where the event could not go ahead, then they'd have a hard time arguing that they've lost income due to the couples actions. Someone pointed out the other day that, regardless of the current situation, contracts have to be fair and fees retained have to represent real costs.

Julian

[Benny Smyth]

Has anyone thought about how they'd work with their clients if weddings end up being 'phased' in?

For example, weddings are restricted to 50 guests, but the original guest list is 250. Do you postpone?

Would you do the same with a 100 guest limit, but the original guest list is 110?

What if mom and dad live in Spain? We can have an unrestricted wedding, but flights are still a no go.

I think what we're dealing with now is very black and white compared to what may be coming...

[Imagine]

Has anyone thought about how they'd work with their clients if weddings end up being 'phased' in?

For example, weddings are restricted to 50 guests, but the original guest list is 250. Do you postpone?

Would you do the same with a 100 guest limit, but the original guest list is 110?

What if mom and dad live in Spain? We can have an unrestricted wedding, but flights are still a no go.

I think what we're dealing with now is very black and white compared to what may be coming...

Already had those thoughts several times Benny, and it's a little more black and white than you think ;)

I think that when we do eventually get let loose again that the restrictions on numbers will be a definite for a while (I'm guessing probably at around 50)

But then, it gets a little clearer. We're still able to provide the party (unlike now), so it'll be business as usual - either postpone (and I've always allowed that just out of customer service - and Karma), or cancel and lose whatever the contract says. If they've invited more than are allowed, it's up to them to reduce their numbers accordingly. It's no different from inviting 200 guests to a venue with a 100 guest capacity.

As for the flights one - they'll be back quicker than you could imagine ;)

What I do think we'll see once we're allowed back out on the road is a decline in numbers (people aren't going to want to be in a room full of strangers), and those that do attend will probably be wearing face masks. They're already doing logo'd ones in the USA that the DJs over there are considering buying to provide as part of the service :o

Whatever happens, it's a while off yet and things are going to be very different.

[Nakatomi]

Has anyone thought about how they'd work with their clients if weddings end up being 'phased' in?

For example, weddings are restricted to 50 guests, but the original guest list is 250. Do you postpone?

Would you do the same with a 100 guest limit, but the original guest list is 110?

What if mom and dad live in Spain? We can have an unrestricted wedding, but flights are still a no go.

I think what we're dealing with now is very black and white compared to what may be coming...

I feel a lot of this is out of our hands as DJs. If restrictions start to be lifted but place limits on numbers (which to be honest is very likely) - then venues give clients the go-ahead - that's very likely their last chance after having already had one postponement. Most venue contracts I've looked at say the client gets one shot at rearranging & then they're in defaulting territory.

Is having a reduced headcount better than no wedding at all? Would it be reasonable or fair for a client to try to postpone again to get exactly the event they originally wanted? I guess it all depends on a load of different factors & by the time we hear about it, it could be too late to sway any client.

Reducing from 250 to 50 is a bit of a leap - would a venue knock money off for the reduced headcount? Would the client be happy with the headcount reduction? Would many of those 50 who made the cut actually show up? Trying to put myself in their shoes I wouldn't take a reduction of 200 on the chin - especially if I still had to pay for the 200 ghost guests. 110 to 100 would be a much easier call to make. A 100 to 50 reduction.... gah.. it's gonna be a mess!

[Excalibur]

I'm convinced that not every rescheduled wedding will occur in exactly the way it was originally intended. I'm sure that not all original suppliers and possibly even venues will be available on every rescheduled date. I can foresee the grand marquee wedding for 250 guests becoming something far smaller and less formal in the back room of The Ferret And Aardvark, for instance. I think flexibility will be the keyword, certainly for us.

[Imagine]

I'm convinced that not every rescheduled wedding will occur in exactly the way it was originally intended. I'm sure that not all original suppliers and possibly even venues will be available on every rescheduled date.

That's already happening if you frequent the local wedding pages on Faceache - they've managed to reschedule most of their suppliers but not all and does anyone know of a available for my date.

The later we get into the year (I've still got 2 for August and three for September that are convinced things will be going ahead as planned, mainly because their venues are waiting for [I]them to cancel rather than the other way around), the harder they're going to find it rescheduling everything as is for a different date because we're ALL taking bookings for next year.


I can foresee the grand marquee wedding for 250 guests becoming something far smaller and less formal in the back room of The Ferret And Aardvark, for instance. I think flexibility will be the keyword, certainly for us.

Yes in some cases, but....

I think weddings and indeed pretty much any gathering will be different for the foreseeable, although hopefully not in the back room of the local boozer (if such a thing still exists by then!).
Couples will still have a dream of their perfect day and there are some that the function room of 20 odd years ago just isn't going to suit (I really don't miss working in a lot of those places)

What I can see is that yes, they'll be smaller and more likely to be DIY stylee in a tent in the back garden. There's also a fair few "blank canvas" venues here (think field in the middle of nowhere where for the right fee you can put up a tipi/marquee/PT Barnum's circus tent, get the guests to camp out on the night either in tents or lodges....), and I think they'll also do very well. These are the customers I've always tried to attract and I'm not planning on changing that in the future.

I think the big venues (permanent marquees, stately homes, castles and the like) are going to struggle with smaller numbers because they have to charge a certain amount to pay the business mortgage and staffing.

I may of course be very wrong. People have very short memories and when/if a vaccine becomes available, this thing will be forgotten in terms of social distancing and hand washing every five minutes very quickly.

[Nakatomi]

I'm convinced that not every rescheduled wedding will occur in exactly the way it was originally intended. I'm sure that not all original suppliers and possibly even venues will be available on every rescheduled date. I can foresee the grand marquee wedding for 250 guests becoming something far smaller and less formal in the back room of The Ferret And Aardvark, for instance. I think flexibility will be the keyword, certainly for us.

Maybe this is going to mean people will re-evaluate what a wedding 'should be about' too. You know, bringing the emphasis back on romance etc rather than stuff.. who knows. Now if you'll excuse me I have to make good my exit before the mob catches up with me for blaspheming..

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I think people will go ahead as long as their important guests will be able to attend. If you're cutting a 250 guest wedding down to 50 then you'll still need a DJ. The grey area is when you have as mentioned parents or important guests who live abroad and can't make it but technically the wedding can still go ahead and what their venues stance will be on that.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes on the way.

[Benny Smyth]

There is an ancient curse that I have quoted over the last few weeks that I think is incredibly relevant to now: may you live in interesting times.

The origin of that curse? I'll leave you to Google that and discover the irony.

[Excalibur]

There is an ancient curse that I have quoted over the last few weeks that I think is incredibly relevant to now: may you live in interesting times.

The origin of that curse? I'll leave you to Google that and discover the irony.

Some of us already know the origin, since we're fond of quoting it. :p Can't find any of the instances, as the search facility doesn't make it that easy.

[rth_discos]

Can't find any of the instances, as the search facility doesn't make it that easy.

Ah, but Google search does...

[Excalibur]

Ah, but Google search does...

You could have given examples, Smartbottom! :p

Post 13 (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?28742-Lunacy-calculated-risk-or-overdue-upgrade)

and especially post 36 (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?29988-Age-is-just-a-number/page2)

[Vectis]

Just in case anyone missed it, the Scottish Newly Self-Employed Hardship Fund is now open for applications. One-off £2k grant to s/e persons that started business on or after 06/04/2019 with 50%+ income from self-employment and no help from other schemes.

I don't believe there is an English/Welsh/NI equivalent but might be worth a look.

https://findbusinesssupport.gov.scot/coronavirus-advice/sources-of-funding/newly-self-employed-hardship-fund

You have to apply. They won't contact you, unlike the HMRC run scheme for the long-term self-employed.

[DJ Jules]

Just in case anyone missed it, the Scottish Newly Self-Employed Hardship Fund is now open for applications. One-off £2k grant to s/e persons that started business on or after 06/04/2019 with 50%+ income from self-employment and no help from other schemes.

I don't believe there is an English/Welsh/NI equivalent but might be worth a look.

The UK equivalent is the new small business loan (https://www.accountancydaily.co/covid-19-ps50k-bounce-back-loans-small-businesses). They're loans, but open to any small business, regardless of circumstance. 100% state backed, interest and repayments frozen for the next 12 months.

Julian

[Vectis]

The UK equivalent is the new small business loan (https://www.accountancydaily.co/covid-19-ps50k-bounce-back-loans-small-businesses). They're loans, but open to any small business, regardless of circumstance. 100% state backed, interest and repayments frozen for the next 12 months.

Julian

But limited to 25% of turnover as I understand it. Which might be enough to help some escape the short-term.

[scoopd]

Did anyone see Martin Lewis last night?

Got the impression that a couple are entitled to their deposit back and or p[payment in full if they made it in light of Coronavirus.

It's 12 mins in here if you have an ITV.com account https://www.itv.com/hub/the-martin-lewis-money-show-a-coronavirus-special/7a0222a0006

Would be interested to hear what folks thoughts are.

[ppentertainments]

Did anyone see Martin Lewis last night?

Got the impression that a couple are entitled to their deposit back and or p[payment in full if they made it in light of Coronavirus.

It's 12 mins in here if you have an ITV.com account https://www.itv.com/hub/the-martin-lewis-money-show-a-coronavirus-special/7a0222a0006

Would be interested to hear what folks thoughts are.

My Standard Reply :


As it stands most (there are exceptions) venues and suppliers are changing dates in advance, as far as September for me, free of charge.

If this legislation is pushed, the only liability we have is to deal with weddings during any lockdown period – ie any weddings until next Friday at present.

Couples will not be able to rearrange future weddings and, for example, if next Friday Boris was to announce the lockdown was over, weddings for the following day would have to go ahead as normal. Not very nice for couples planning their wedding but if a lot are asking for full refunds this is the way things will change.

Also, couples will cancel, then when they do come to rebook (let’s face it most will still want to get married) they will be faced with huge price increases as the industry tries to recover.

So couples have a choice – be flexible as is the current stance and the only thing that will change is your date OR demand a refund, that refund will only be made on your wedding date and pay a higher price when you rearrange your wedding.

Overall a silly and pointless legislation which will not help ANYONE

[DJ Jules]

If this legislation is pushed, the only liability we have is to deal with weddings during any lockdown period – ie any weddings until next Friday at present.

This isn't new legislation, it's basic consumer rights. If a couple aren't able to use goods or a service through no fault of their own, then why should they be expected to pay for it?

Next Friday is not going to be the end of it. As others have said on here there are likely to be ongoing restrictions on non-essential activity (leisure businesses, social gatherings, etc) for some time - possibly until the end of the year.

BA is appealing to their customers who are due to fly between now and the end of July to gamble and take a voucher now vs waiting for their flight to be cancelled and getting entitlement to a refund. This removes the stress and uncertainty from planning, but reduces their rights. We're asking our customers to do the same by rescheduling to later in the year or next year, the question is where do we draw the line right now and when do we decide to move that line as the situation becomes clearer? The law might technically side with us if we drew that line at the 8th May, but would that be considered reasonable behaviour given what we all know is coming next? Probably not...

Obviously what we don't want is for restrictions to be lifted in July and us all to be sat looking at empty diaries, but we also don't want to be rescheduling events and pushing back dates again and again because couples have been unrealistic in their planning.

Julian

[rth_discos]

This isn't new legislation, it's basic consumer rights. If a couple aren't able to use goods or a service through no fault of their own, then why should they be expected to pay for it?

And this is where it gets a bit grey. If some service has already been supplied, then why should the supplier need to refund that aspect?

For example, a photographer may have already conducted the pre-wedding test shoot.

As a DJ, I spend a considerable amount of time during the planning phase in contact with my clients. I also give them access to planning software.

So that's why it gets quite grey, and isn't as simple as a 'full refund'. Typically, the deposit should cover the pre-event work. Obviously any additional payments made above that should be refunded. That's why, where possible, rescheduling is best, as it avoids that conversation about a refund.

I've made contact with the CMA, but don't expect a quick response. I'm trying to get som clarification over how we can protect ourselves better against cancellations in the future (outside of Covid-19 related cancellations), where we hold a date for a customer and turn away work for that date.

[Nakatomi]

Next Friday is not going to be the end of it. As others have said on here there are likely to be ongoing restrictions on non-essential activity (leisure businesses, social gatherings, etc) for some time - possibly until the end of the year.

Julian

I've been assuming that too based on what's been hinted on the news but then got to thinking .. once lockdown starts to come off & London tubes start to get rammed like sardine tins again, what would be the point of restricting social gatherings etc? Then I remembered not all the decisions made so far about this virus have necessarily been logical.... :zip: I think if any kind of staged lockdown release happens it should be based more on geography than type of activity.

[Benny Smyth]

And this is where it gets a bit grey. If some service has already been supplied, then why should the supplier need to refund that aspect?

I think this is where we as DJs are going to be fine with the CMA. I know that this is a sweeping statement and I'm sure that there are exceptions, but I honestly do not know of a single DJ who takes a booking fee that couldn't easily justify how that sum covers the admin in creating the booking. It's not the sexist part of the service that we provide, but still an important part so the client pays for the work that has been done.

I think that the whole Martin Lewis/CMA storm is going to be primarily aimed at venues and services that come at a not too dissimilar cost. I can't see them wasting time going for DJs who take a £50/10%/whatever deposit.

[ppentertainments]

I think this is where we as DJs are going to be fine with the CMA. I know that this is a sweeping statement and I'm sure that there are exceptions, but I honestly do not know of a single DJ who takes a booking fee that couldn't easily justify how that sum covers the admin in creating the booking. It's not the sexist part of the service that we provide, but still an important part so the client pays for the work that has been done.

I think that the whole Martin Lewis/CMA storm is going to be primarily aimed at venues and services that come at a not too dissimilar cost. I can't see them wasting time going for DJs who take a £50/10%/whatever deposit.
Agree, not only that, legally we are able to provide our services but are prevented from doing so by a third party (ie government lockdown). I know this is an angle a lot of airline companies are looking at. If a venue locked their doors, we wouldn't be liable and a government lockdown is actually similar. The tricky thing is, and this is where they are clever, it is a VERY grey area as to whether this is all actually law or not.

As you say, deposits we will be fine, it is just if a lot of people have paid up front it could get tricky. Couples aren't stupid though and are fine with postponing so far, only thing to be wary about is reputations.

[ppentertainments]

It does amaze me how many suppliers have encountered problems, mainly those who have had a handful of weddings to take care of - Terry Lewis being a prime example if you have read his email/fb post.

I have now rearranged over 60 weddings and not one has been any problem at all. Only slight hitch was someone for November wanting to know options available, but as I have said to all couples, registrar and venue need confirming before suppliers.

[Nakatomi]

It does amaze me how many suppliers have encountered problems, mainly those who have had a handful of weddings to take care of - Terry Lewis being a prime example if you have read his email/fb post.
.

If enough of his 2021 prime dates are already booked & those are the only dates his customers have to work with, then yes he's probably going to have some issues. This is one time in my life I can say I'm glad I don't have that kind of problem.

[DJ Jules]

If enough of his 2021 prime dates are already booked & those are the only dates his customers have to work with, then yes he's probably going to have some issues. This is one time in my life I can say I'm glad I don't have that kind of problem.

Terry posted on MDJN the content of the email he's been sending B&G's and my issue with his message was that he presented the return of the deposit as a "gesture of goodwill" and wrapped it up in some sob story from his own personal experience about his holiday. The customer's response was the really interesting bit - they said that he was the ONLY supplier who had offered to return the full deposit, other suppliers responses varied from still demanding full payment to offering partial refunds. I've been trying not to misrepresent the situation precisely because it puts it in couples heads that they have less rights than they actually do.

I agree with Benny, I'm sure we're not going to have the CMA breathing down our necks any time soon over £50-£100 deposits and we'd be able to easily defend keeping a proportion to cover work done to date. Where we're sat on full payment, it'd be hard to argue that we could keep anything more than the deposit/booking fee, unless we have specifically broken down our costs somewhere to detail the cost of pre-event work. I know I haven't. However, even the CMA say they're not going to be able to chase every supplier but, by making the legal position clearer, it gives couples a lot more ammunition to take a supplier to small claims so customers can independently seek recourse.

Just as a side - my current position is that all of my bookings have rescheduled bar two. One booked for May and wasn't in a position to reschedule because they weren't in a good place financially (I know they weren't in a great place before Covid19 hit). They'd paid 50% and I refunded everything they'd paid. The other was a school prom and I'm waiting for them to catch up and realise that they've paid me in full (this school was always odd to deal with, one group handle the booking & another pays the bills and the two don't really talk, so I'm expecting there to be a bit of a delay....) My big unknown at the moment is a set of 8 bookings who have all said they will reschedule, but are waiting for things to calm down before they set dates. They're in a mix of positions from full payment down to deposit only. Two were originally *just* before full lockdown when it was "advised" that we don't gather and I'm hoping it doesn't come to the point where I find out exactly where I stand on those!

Julian

[Imagine]

My big unknown at the moment is a set of 8 bookings who have all said they will reschedule, but are waiting for things to calm down before they set dates. They're in a mix of positions from full payment down to deposit only. Two were originally *just* before full lockdown when it was "advised" that we don't gather and I'm hoping it doesn't come to the point where I find out exactly where I stand on those!

Julian

I'm hoping we're going to have something a little more concrete next week when the boffins get together to work out a way out of this thing. Even a rough finger in the air guesstimate is going to be something, surely.

I've got a wedding at the end of July and two at the start of August that have yet to get in touch (I emailed ALL couples when this thing started and I know they've read it). I know for fact that one of the August ones can't do anything until the venue accept the fact that it's not likely to go ahead (they're playing hardball from what I understand and working on the assumption that the lockdown could be lifted at the end of each review period). I've got several at the moment that are "floaters" in that they've confirmed that they'd like to move their date, but can't actually contact the venue to work anything out because they're closed.

Every other wedding since the start of the lockdown to the end of August (18 of them) have moved to next year, no questions about refunds, no quibbling, just happy to be able to keep the same suppliers.

Beyond that, there's another dozen between the start of September and the end of the year I still need to deal with. I'm not going to contact those just yet, but somehow don't really expect any sort of gathering such as a wedding to be allowed for the rest of this year. In a weird way, I'm glad this all kicked off during peak booking season so a lot of enquiries never made it to bookings for this year otherwise it would have been a lot harder :mad:

[rth_discos]

I agree with Benny, I'm sure we're not going to have the CMA breathing down our necks any time soon over £50-£100 deposits and we'd be able to easily defend keeping a proportion to cover work done to date. Where we're sat on full payment, it'd be hard to argue that we could keep anything more than the deposit/booking fee, unless we have specifically broken down our costs somewhere to detail the cost of pre-event work. I know I haven't.

This is essentially what it is. Payment for pre-event work we do in the early stages can be retained (typically covered by the deposit).

Anything where costs can't be justified must be returned.

Many people, including suppliers are seemingly taking a black and white approach to it, thinking it means we have to refund everything including the deposit.

For what it's worth, my contract explicitly details the following:

"If you cancel the booking outside of the Cooling Off Period, any deposit paid will be forfeited to cover time and costs in the setting up of the booking."

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I've not seen it but even hearing from a friend about Terry's self aggrandising e-mail gave me the boak. :rolleyes:

[ppentertainments]

I've not seen it but even hearing from a friend about Terry's self aggrandising e-mail gave me the boak. :rolleyes:
What makes it worse is that he makes his (false) claims, posts these opinionated emails but won't reply to comments - pretty pointless posting really, shame as he could learn so much.

[Nakatomi]

What makes it worse is that he makes his (false) claims, posts these opinionated emails but won't reply to comments - pretty pointless posting really, shame as he could learn so much.

You mean.... he's NOT the messiah after all? :doh:

I love all the heartfelt testimonials I've seen mind. I couldn't have written more perfect ones myself.. ahem.

[Benny Smyth]

The Irish Government have released their road map. Here is the link with more info (https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e5e599-government-publishes-roadmap-to-ease-covid-19-restrictions-and-reope/?fbclid=IwAR2DaLakVHsBWTgJLdxCU1TVK-jtVN5aEYDXx_zjfeT75qR5JtiORwakGA0#phase-1-18-may), but I've copied and pasted the road map below too (plus I've highlighted what may pique our interests most):

Phase 1 (18 May)

allow outdoor meetings between people from different households
open up childcare for healthcare workers
phased return of outdoor workers
open retailers which are primarily outdoor or those which were open during first level of restriction (e.g. opticians)
opening of certain outdoor public amenities


Phase 2 (8 June)

allow visits to households
develop plans and supports to open up business with consideration for safety of staff and customers
open small retail outlets and marts where social distancing can be observed
open public libraries


Phase 3 (29 June)

allow small social gatherings
opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of essential workers in phased manner
return to work for those with low levels of interaction
open non-essential retail outlets with street level entrance and exit
open playgrounds


Phase 4 (20 July)

opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of all other workers on a gradually increasing basis
return to work for those who cannot work from home
gradual easing of restrictions for higher risk services (e.g. Hairdressers)
opening of museums, galleries, places of worship


Phase 5 (10 August)

allow larger social gatherings
return to work across all sectors
on a phased basis, commencing at the beginning of the academic year 2020/2021, opening of primary and secondary schools and 3rd level institutions
further easing of restrictions on high risk retail services


Take from the above what you will.

[rth_discos]

In many respects we're already ahead of this.

We already have schools open for children of keyworkers.

And it looks like primary schools could be reopening in full here in the UK in early June.

I think this will be lifted in the UK much quicker than Ireland.

It was only a matter of time before economics took priority.

Whether it's the right thing or not, well time will tell.

Quite frankly, once schools are open, considering how well viruses spread around schools, you might as well open everything back up!

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

And it looks like primary schools could be reopening in full here in the UK in early June.



Teacher here :daft: not a chance in hell that is going to happen.

We finish up late June, when this kicked off I was optimistic that we'd maybe be back in June for a transition before the holidays but just now I would bet my house against it.

Even after the Summer it's not going to be a case of all things back to as they were come registration on Monday morning. I can see all sorts of measures being put in place until at least Christmas if not for the full academic year.

They can't just open the schools back up because parents are fed up and businesses are losing money and the unions aren't going to accept a situation where we're expected to go into an unsafe environment to work and they aren't getting over the logistics of social distancing 1000+ kids and 100+ staff in the same building or the total lack of ppe in the next 4 weeks.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

We already have schools open for children of keyworkers.
!

Bit of a misnomer. Both parents need to be key workers and no other childcare available and the school isn't 'open', it's essentially a building to have your kid babysat for the time being.

There's 2--4 kids in my hub which is ASN, my pal is in a hub with something like 8 feeder mainstream primary schools, they've less than a dozen kids.

[Imagine]

The Irish Government have released their road map.

Interesting reading there and if we follow something similar (bear in mind we've had it a lot worse than the Irish and that they're a couple of weeks ahead of us on this lockdown malarky), we could potentially be back in business for the start of September. I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet mind...

Now...whether or not people are going to be attending mass gatherings in any sort of number or not is another matter entirely :rolleyes:

[rth_discos]

Teacher here :daft: not a chance in hell that is going to happen.


We'll find out for sure in a week... https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/03/revealed-year-six-primary-school-pupils-may-return-on-1-june

[Benny Smyth]

Interesting reading there and if we follow something similar (bear in mind we've had it a lot worse than the Irish and that they're a couple of weeks ahead of us on this lockdown malarky)...

At the risk of breaking rule number [I can't be bothered to check] and venturing into politics talk, while we have been hit harder than Ireland, it would not surprise me if the Government were to be a bit cavalier with the lifting of restrictions. I'm not saying the same time frame, but I'm thinking a couple of weeks behind - basically the moment the scales tip in favour of economy over health.

Saying that, as this thread has proved repeatedly, this is the foresight of a moron who doesn't know what he's talking about and has been wrong with his predictions every step of the way.

[Pe7e]

It would not surprise me if the Government were to be a bit cavalier with the lifting of restrictions.
Basically the moment the scales tip in favor of economy over health.


I don't quite see it that way, there certainly are factions within the government who would like the economy opened up for their own financial benefit whether more people die or not. On the other hand their BOSS has his eyes on public opinion, and that still favors retaining the current restrictions or even tightening them to foreigners entering the country. My opinion is the current restrictions are with us for a while yet, there may be minor changes but large public gatherings pubs and clubs etc wont be opening any time soon.

[DJ Jules]

I don't quite see it that way, there certainly are factions within the government who would like the economy opened up for their own financial benefit whether more people die or not. On the other hand their BOSS has his eyes on public opinion, and that still favors retaining the current restrictions or even tightening them to foreigners entering the country. My opinion is the current restrictions are with us for a while yet, there may be minor changes but large public gatherings pubs and clubs etc wont be opening any time soon.

My opinion is that current restrictions are being quietly relaxed in the background (B&Q re-open, national chains re-opening, etc) and those businesses who aren't open yet are already quietly making plans for the near future (Wetherspoons???) As businesses re-open it changes the public perception of "lockdown" and people will relax... There's two things to bear in mind here;

Firstly that the government and police have always said that they'd be unable to maintain a lockdown in this country for more than a period of about 8 weeks (we're almost at that...), they gave the reason that it'd be bad for mental health, but I'm sure it's really all about the economic impact of lockdown and an acceptance that the British public have quite a short attention span :sofa:

Secondly, the objective with our lockdown was never to eradicate the virus (like New Zealand and Australia have done quite effectively), it was just to control the spread to prevent people from dying from it because the health service is overwhelmed (eradicating the virus would have done that far more effectively by preventing ANYONE from dying from it). Our death rate compared to our population size is already one of the worst in the world (Less than Italy but worse than America) and it's likely that we're going to give Italy a run for their money before this is done.

Anyway, with all that in mind, easing of restrictions is going to happen soon. It'll be at a rate that accepts that people will be infected but prevents the NHS becoming overwhelmed by a rapid spread, and it's likely to result in a 2nd peak and possibly even a winter resurgence (like flu). The people most vulnerable will be told to stay home and not get infected until vaccines come along as they're safe there (unless they're in a care home where one of the staff spent their weekend partying with their neighbours and then they're :Censored:).

The bit about the vulnerable is going to make lives tricky for weddings and functions - if restrictions are lifted and venues are open, then weddings can go ahead, but it might have to be without anyone over the age of 70, suffers from asthma, has weak immune system or is being treated for cancer.... One of my friends is in this position as her Dad is going through chemotherapy - do they get married later this year and put him at risk, go ahead without him, or delay to next year and risk that he's gone before they marry? :(

Julian

Mod note: Hold on there, Musky! You were doing so well up to there. Political opinion not directly relating to Disco and Karaoke removed. Yours, Deputy Dawg.

[Excalibur]

At the risk of breaking rule number 20, Since you ask. Familiarity with the rules is a requirement of the Forum, Benny lad. :Naughty:

To be serious, such discussion is allowed, where it relates directly to Disco and Karaoke issues. That doesn't give carte blanche* to you lot, so please be mindful of what you're posting. Thank you.




* Bugger. :mad: Rule 23. :o I bent it once, but I think I got away with it. :whistle:

[DJ Jules]

:Naughty:

To be serious, such discussion is allowed, where it relates directly to Disco and Karaoke issues. That doesn't give carte blanche* to you lot, so please be mindful of what you're posting. Thank you.

I thought I was pushing my luck, but it is likely to influence (rightly or wrongly) the approach and time line for reopening the country.