Post COVID - what's the future going to look like? [Archive]

Imagine

28-06-2020, 12:19 AM

Genuine question here chaps and chap-esses because I'm seriously thinking now as to whether the label "full time" DJ is going to be applicable. I'm also on a bit of a whimsey as I'm missing doing what I love doing, but at the same time meeting a lot of the people we'd normally have throwing shapes on our dance floors on a Saturday night (today's all day wedding would have been the equivalent of working for 4.2 weeks where I am now and for a lot less perspiration)

Don't get me wrong, the 11.5 months I spent completely self employed doing my dream "job" were awesome...until you know what knocked everyone's world upside down. Next year if what we do is allowed is looking brilliant!
But, will things ever return to normal in our lifetimes/careers?

Will those of us that were full time before the world got scared be able to be properly full time ever again?

My personal perspective is that it's going to be very hard.

Even if we were unlocked tomorrow, the dance floors are going to be pretty quiet from what I'm seeing of Joe Public's behaviour at the moment. YES, the news is sensationalising certain events such as rallies, beaches and illegal raves - they're just a very small minority of the public though.

In my temporary job delivering booze and food for a major supermarket, I'm actually encountering a lot of very scared people (Julian will be able to relate to this). People in gloves (including wooly which apparently COVID doesn't like), face coverings, head coverings (what?), aprons (yes...that's weird), there are a LOT of normal people that are genuinely scared of this thing and won't actually be leaving their house for a while to come.

These people are the people that would normally be filling our dance floors!

An example....I stood on a chap's doorstep tonight having a chat. He's shielding due to age and underlying health conditions and has been since the start of March (ideal 70th birthday or anniversary client). I'm one of THREE people other than his wife that he dares to see every week (the others are Amazon and the postie). I got into the conversation about being allowed out again from the start of August (and he used to meet with his "chums" at a local boozer on a Thursday afternoon for a couple of swift ones). His response? He misses it but not blimmin' likely.

Another example - the ideal wedding client insisted that I unloaded her shopping onto her doorstep and then disappeared before she'd open the front door to take it in.

I've met youngsters tonight that are big on the whole social distancing thing (they wouldn't come within 10 feet of me...cue Peter having some sort of dig at that one). The general public/ordinary people seem to still be scared half to death about catching COVID. In fact out of the 20 odd "drops" I did tonight, only ONE customer came into close contact (and that actually felt wrong from my side of things!)

Personally, I feel I'm lucky in that I have a job to tide me over. It's not my dream job, it's damned hard graft (although I'm enjoying it)...but I appear to be good at it and it pays some of the bills. I have the option of when/if things return to normality that they'll schedule my shifts around future DJing work (driving 3.5 tonne trucks I have to have a certain amount of rest including extracurricular work).

I'm likely to be a part time DJ for a very long time to come. It's a small price to pay for income security, and it looks like our income will be dented for several months/years to come or until a vaccine is found

Excalibur

28-06-2020, 06:06 AM

Wayne, you're not far off the mark at all, my truck driving friend. :) I reckon there are two kinds of people. Those who think they're invulnerable, and just can't wait to get back to " normal normal ", never mind " new normal ". They can't understand what the fuss is about, after all " it's only flu". :whistle:

Then there are the people who are classed officially as having some degree of vulnerability. ( Chez Excalibur for a start. I've been banned from venturing inside all supermarkets for the foreseeable, and am only allowed " click and collect " from Screwfix, Petrol station, and lately Tesco. ( sorry Wayne, but Every Little Helps ;) ).
Many of those, as Wayne rightly says, are very apprehensive/worried. I know people who haven't ventured outside their premises for twelve weeks, and aren't likely to do so for quite a few more. Many of those are our customers/guests, week in, week out. Until we get them back on stream, there's little hope of loads of work. :(:(

PS. Ten feet? Bit close for me mate, round it up to a dozen, I'd say. :p:D

DJ Jules

28-06-2020, 07:44 AM

Coming up to 15 weeks for us and I've left the house/garden a grand total of 6 times now. My wife has been out a few more times to drop supplies off to her parents, but that's it. I've entered 2 shops and yesterday we went out chasing a friend of ours who did a paddleboarding session and I took a walk along the river for a bit as there were only a handful of people out. We've been very lucky in that we live on the edge of a big city and that brings good transport networks and good/frequent delivery services (except I don't count Parcel Force under "good"). Since this kicked off
everything has been brought to us by one of Asda, Royal Mail, Amazon, DPD, Yodel or Parcel Force (eventually). There's a special place in heaven for delivery drivers :D

I should mention that we've had one takeaway for my sons birthday. They forgot a 3rd of the order and couldn't do anything about it because they're socially distancing the delivery drivers from the kitchen staff and the two aren't allowed to talk! I'm not keen to repeat that experience.

Our Asda drivers (sorry Wayne, that's my local) have had a mix of different attitudes to us since this all started. They're under instructions to ring the bell and then to tell the customer to go inside and close the door so they can leave the shopping on a step or in a porch for the customer to collect later. We've got an inner door and a porch with an outer door so if I open the inner door and take half a step back, I'm a good 2m from them, but some of the drivers turn up in full PPE and will literally run away if I open the door while others are OK with us standing opposite sides of the porch and talking. I have seen them starting to noticeably relax in the last few weeks.

We're planning on bringing carers for my daughter back in sometime mid-July which will make my life a lot easier. We're still shielding until 1st August but we could have kept carers coming in throughout, we just decided it was better not to until we understood exactly what kind of risk they posed - that risk drops significantly as soon as the schools break up as two of them work in schools during the day. My day job hasn't confirmed plans, but we're all thinking that we're going to be kept at home until the new year. The business is functioning with the majority of staff working remotely (to the point that they've actually revoked our access to the building) and I suspect they've decided that it's easier to keep us running like this than deal with trying to put in place effective social distancing measures in the office, especially with some people hot-desking. In a building of 1,500 people with lots of shared communal space, an outbreak could be a disaster (on a personal and a business level). I also suspect they're saving a bucket on water, power, heating/cooling, security staff, maintenance, cleaners, etc.

My personal opinion on the future...? We live with risks to our lives every single day, viruses, bacteria, theft/assault, personal and terrorist attacks, etc, etc and we still get on with it without living in fear. Every now and then one or more of these becomes more prevalent in society and we become more aware of it (9/11, tube bombings, Covid19, etc) and then we go back to life as usual, because we're good at assessing, rationalising and then blanking out constant risk and we don't deal well with living every day in fear. We will get back to normal, it's going to take a little while and we're likely to have to live with some changes to our lifestyle for a while, but we will.

The long term hit is going to come from the economic impact of this. Anyone who thinks that this is going to be a V shaped drop in economic activity is dreaming. Now that the next quarters rents are due, we're starting to see businesses call it a day and the job losses mount up. About a third of councils are technically bankrupt and looking to make cuts. Incomes have been reduced for a prolonged period of time, not all industries are re-opened yet (including ours) having a further impact on spending and then we have 3 months entrenched habits of cooking and drinking at home and a general nervousness about future income that is all going to make people reluctant to spend. That's all going to hit businesses. There's going to have to be some big incentives for people to splash out to get the economy moving again (or some heavy government sponsored infrastructure projects to create employment).

However, that isn't going to stop rich people throwing parties and incredibly low interest rates actually make it cheaper now to get married than 12 months ago (assuming that most couples borrow to fund their day and suppliers fix or drop their fees for a year or two). DJ's in some markets will probably be OK...

Julian

rth_discos

28-06-2020, 09:25 AM

I reckon there are two kinds of people. Those who think they're invulnerable, and just can't wait to get back to " normal normal ", never mind " new normal ". They can't understand what the fuss is about, after all " it's only flu". :whistle:

Then there are the people who are classed officially as having some degree of vulnerability.

Those are the two extremes. The ones you need to look at carefully are the middle section - the likes of me. I'm not vulnerable at all. But I have no desire to take any risks with this one. This is not the flu, and whilst it's circulating, I'm reducing my risk as much as possible (whilst remaining healthy - so I'm doing a lot more exercise than before). My business is now all working from home. Going into our serviced office on Friday to pick up the post I saw about 5 people. Bear in mind this is an office that holds well in excess of 300 people. No one is in a rush to go back into the office. I didn't enjoy the experience, and will continue to return once a month simply to collect the post. When the pubs/restaurants re-open, I won't be returning - not for a long time.

My personal opinion on the future...? We live with risks to our lives every single day, viruses, bacteria, theft/assault, personal and terrorist attacks, etc, etc and we still get on with it without living in fear. Every now and then one or more of these becomes more prevalent in society and we become more aware of it (9/11, tube bombings, Covid19, etc) and then we go back to life as usual, because we're good at assessing, rationalising and then blanking out constant risk and we don't deal well with living every day in fear. We will get back to normal, it's going to take a little while and we're likely to have to live with some changes to our lifestyle for a while, but we will.

Terrorism has always been a very low risk. You were at greater risk driving on the motorway than from a terrorist. But the odds on this are very different, and that's why until it's eradicated, or it's proven we do build immunity to it, that it will take a long time to get back to any normality.

The long term hit is going to come from the economic impact of this.
However, that isn't going to stop rich people throwing parties and incredibly low interest rates actually make it cheaper now to get married than 12 months ago (assuming that most couples borrow to fund their day and suppliers fix or drop their fees for a year or two). DJ's in some markets will probably be OK...

The low interest rates aren't much lower than they have been since 2008. But borrowing still isn't *cheap*. And if you're borrowing, then you're not *rich*.

The squeezed middle income families with big mortgages will be tightening their belts. These redundancies are going to hit everyone - I'm seeing lots of well paid professionals (our ideal clients) being made redundant already. This is going to make people very nervous until there is a clear economic recovery.

As things stand, with people being more cautious, it has a huge impact. Those bigger earners won't splash out on a big wedding - meaning us DJs don't get paid as much. We then don't splash out on a house/garden improvement, meaning the trademen don't earn as much, meaning they don't eat out as much at a restaurant, putting the zero hours contract workers on less income - and so the cycle continues. One of the big downsides of a service driven economy is when have less demand for those services.

It's clear there is going to be no V shaped recovery from this - and being a worldwide issue is going to be interesting what happens. What about Spain - with less of us going on holiday abroad (are people really going to want to sit with 200 other people in a small metal tube flying through the air?), will property prices crash there? How many Brits have homes out there that they rent out to holiday makers (and rely on that to pay the mortgage of that property). So many areas where it's not looking pretty at the moment.

Right now, I would recommend diversifying income as much as possible. Over the past 48 months I've relied on 3 income streams. 1 went very quickly (weddings), another is about to in 2 weeks time - so income 3 has been ramped up, and I'll be looking at adding in another income stream *just in case*.

I feel much more in control being self employed. I wouldn't want to be employed right now, relying on one income stream alone.

ppentertainments

28-06-2020, 09:55 AM

DJ Jules

28-06-2020, 10:01 AM

The low interest rates aren't much lower than they have been since 2008. But borrowing still isn't *cheap*. And if you're borrowing, then you're not *rich*.

I'm seeing loans down to 3.3% APR, mortgages at 1.1/1.2%, both lower than the last time I borrowed any significant amount 5 years ago. Mortgage rates have been dropping steadily over the last 5 years (https://www.statista.com/statistics/386301/uk-average-mortgage-interest-rates/).

The squeezed middle income families with big mortgages will be tightening their belts.

See above, if they are clued up and in a position to remortgage they can knock £100's/month off their monthly repayments at the moment. There's also quite a few savvy people who have used Government backed schemes to move existing debt around to make it more affordable.

Right now, I would recommend diversifying income as much as possible. Over the past 48 months I've relied on 3 income streams. 1 went very quickly (weddings), another is about to in 2 weeks time - so income 3 has been ramped up, and I'll be looking at adding in another income stream *just in case*.

I can't argue with this advice.

Julian

Imagine

28-06-2020, 11:59 AM

Got to admit I fear for the future and as it stands it is VERY unlikely I will return full time - or certainly not in the next few years.

It is heartbreaking as I spent 14 years building my business. I did run it primarily as a business rather than 'me as a DJ' and thought I had a very secure business. It was at the stage where if needed I didn't have to work in order to bring in a decent enough income. There was always the risk of things going quiet, but that was always in our hands. The shutter doors closing as they have was something nobody could ever imagine.

That's EXACTLY where I was. I'd worked full time for someone or other in highly stressful careers whilst working my gentlemen vegetables off in the background ready for when I was made redundant last year. I think the sheer amount of work and effort I'd put into getting everything just right only to have the rug pulled from under my feet on my long term dream is the bit that hit me the hardest

I do think short term things are going to be really quiet - so many DJs are desperate to get back, but personally I would rather wait until we are fully operational again and customer confidence has returned - next Easter is my aim.

I think you're right. Even now, my web traffic is down, enquiries are a tiny fraction of what they were pre-lockdown, and most of those are gigs I wouldn't entertain at the moment due to not wanting the stress of going through the whole rescheduling thing again. Next year (if it happens) will consist of all of this year's weddings plus the four I've picked up since this all kicked off.

Knowing this was going to go on for so long, I too found employment. Unfortunately I really was a Full Time DJ and my income was my households income so didn't have benefits or wife to rely on - plus due to savings couldn't even get UC. Going forward I will likely try and keep myself with some sort of employment.

Couldn't agree more sadly.

I fell through the safety nets, wife works and too much in savings to qualify for anything so had no choice other than to go back to working for someone. It was either that, or watch the savings we've spent a lifetime building up evaporate.

One benefit though, I've realised just how much I missed the camaraderie of working with other people on a regular basis. OK, out on the road I'm on my own apart from the 5-10 mins I get to chat with the customers, but back at base there's a real sense of teamwork and banter going on....I like that.

I wouldn't want to be employed right now, relying on one income stream alone.

I think I'm possibly in one of the only growth sectors at the moment so should be fairly secure. The supermarkets themselves aren't predicting a mass of customers coming back into the physical stores and instead are seeing the online side of things growing faster than they can possibly keep up with.

It was never going to be my first choice of job (it's blimmin' hard work in all weathers for very little reward). BUT....it IS a job and that's something at the moment to be grateful for. Plus, there's not too much thinking or responsibility involved and I kind of like that. Ever since I started work waaaay back in the 1980s, I've been in positions where I've had to think, plan, stress, take work home with me..... Now I just turn up, clock in, do what I need to do and go home again.

Do I regret being a Full Time DJ ? No, never, it has been the best job in the world
Can I see things returning to how they were ? No, not for a good few years
Wil changes have to be made ? YES, undoubtedly

:agree:

Benny Smyth

28-06-2020, 03:05 PM

I think you're right. Even now, my web traffic is down, enquiries are a tiny fraction of what they were pre-lockdown, ...

I've seen this said a few times and this is not what I am experiencing at all. We went into lock down on 23rd March and today's date is 28th June. If I did a year on year comparison over that time period:

2019
Enquiries: 80
Won: 10

2020
Enquiries: 88
Won: 26

Your clients are not enquiring with you because they are not finding you, so I dare say that your marketing and SEO needs to be tweaked a little.

For me, the first couple of weeks of lock down was quite bare for enquiries (I assume because of all the uncertainty during that time) but then April was very busy because couple's were either working from home or on furlough, meaning extra time to plan weddings. Plus most are smart enough to identify that dates are going to be even more precious in 2021 and are jumping in as soon as possible.

People are still wanting to get married next year so your clients are out there.

DJ Jules

28-06-2020, 05:28 PM

People are still wanting to get married next year so your clients are out there.

Enquiries: 141 of which...
Declined: 5
Busy: 28
Won: 28
In the wind: 80

The same period last year:

Enquiries: 238 of which...
Declined: 8
Busy: 62
Won: 68
In the wind: 100

So anecdotally, numbers are down in my market. And I don't consider myself to be quite in the same market as Benny/Wayne.

Julian

Nakatomi

28-06-2020, 06:10 PM

Post Covid? Man we're gonna need a time machine or a crystal ball that actually works to figure that one out.

Things I think we can take for granted..

Until either it's proven immunity from coronavirus can be had, or there's a working vaccine we can forget all about less formal parties in venues. Self service food is going to be a big no-no (some say it always should've been LOL). The same is going to apply for anything where resources are shared - photobooths, games equipment etc...

Experts left & right are predicting a massive downturn if not an actual (and pretty nasty) recession. Meaning, people are gonna have much less spare cash for frivolities like organised parties for quite a while once it bites. That some kind of financial bump in the road is coming I'm in no doubt. How big & how bad it's going to be.. well that's anybody's guess.

Lavish parties of days gone by will still go ahead but the market for these will probably be massively reduced (see above). Works functions will be massively knocked on the head too I reckon. Most people still in gainful employment will just be glad they still have a job rather than pester bosses for organised Christmas parties etc.

I've run out of fight now. I gave myself a few years to push that old snowball up to the top of the hill & it just started picking up momentum last year. All this has punched the last of the fight out of me. This isn't so much a jacking it all in - more of a 'meh what's the point?'. Life is interesting enough for me without gigs & I've had fun learning that again.

Imagine

28-06-2020, 11:34 PM

I've run out of fight now. I gave myself a few years to push that old snowball up to the top of the hill & it just started picking up momentum last year. All this has punched the last of the fight out of me. This isn't so much a jacking it all in - more of a 'meh what's the point?'. Life is interesting enough for me without gigs & I've had fun learning that again.

I truly feel your pain Justin. I've worked damned hard to get where I was, I invested tens of thousands in kit (which is now practically worthless but costing me money to store and insure) and I really can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
My own feelings are that it's going to be a very long time before we can get back to doing what we're good at and love. Mentally, 2020 has been an absolute shipwreck.

Benny mentioned SEO and marketing in an earlier post. Yes, I've dropped the ball on that one. I'm now at position 36 in the UK on Google as opposed to around 4 before all of this kicked off. I'm at the position at the moment where I don't actually feel comfortable taking on bookings because I really don't know if they'll happen. What's the point?

This year has been stressful. I've been lucky in that all but one wedding has moved to a date next year. Will those dates happen or will be be going through the same struggle next year to reschedule to 2022?

I desperately want to fire up the kit again (as do several of my delivery colleagues). After all, one night of partying is equivalent to 1.5 weeks of very hard graft. Visiting my lockup once a week to check everything's OK is depressing to say the least. It's kind of weird seeing the PA which won't be blasting out anytime soon and rolling the barrels of the lighting which won't be blinding guests for a long time to come :(

ppentertainments

29-06-2020, 11:22 AM

I truly feel your pain Justin. I've worked damned hard to get where I was, I invested tens of thousands in kit (which is now practically worthless but costing me money to store and insure) and I really can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
My own feelings are that it's going to be a very long time before we can get back to doing what we're good at and love. Mentally, 2020 has been an absolute shipwreck.

Benny mentioned SEO and marketing in an earlier post. Yes, I've dropped the ball on that one. I'm now at position 36 in the UK on Google as opposed to around 4 before all of this kicked off. I'm at the position at the moment where I don't actually feel comfortable taking on bookings because I really don't know if they'll happen. What's the point?

This year has been stressful. I've been lucky in that all but one wedding has moved to a date next year. Will those dates happen or will be be going through the same struggle next year to reschedule to 2022?

I desperately want to fire up the kit again (as do several of my delivery colleagues). After all, one night of partying is equivalent to 1.5 weeks of very hard graft. Visiting my lockup once a week to check everything's OK is depressing to say the least. It's kind of weird seeing the PA which won't be blasting out anytime soon and rolling the barrels of the lighting which won't be blinding guests for a long time to come :(

I know where you are coming from - motivation is just non-esistant at the moment and the not having any idea even what year we can get back to normal just adds to the mental torture.

I actually got my controller, speakers etc out and set them up to have a mess about with. I am not one for FB live etc, and had no intention of bringing anything out of storage, but just thought a mess about might help - and it has. Updated Virtual DJ, made a few mixes and edits which I will use when I do start up and even just playing some of my previous history lists has reminded me a little about why I do the job.

Fingers crossed we will be allowed to do the job again before it is completely wiped out.

rth_discos

29-06-2020, 12:18 PM

I've worked damned hard to get where I was, I invested tens of thousands in kit (which is now practically worthless but costing me money to store and insure) and I really can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
My own feelings are that it's going to be a very long time before we can get back to doing what we're good at and love. Mentally, 2020 has been an absolute shipwreck.

This is where I'm at.

I've got kit sat in a unit that is costing me each month for that pleasure.

I can't see things returning to how they were anytime soon - and we still don't know what weddings will look like in 2021. Even if we did fill our diaries now, there's no guarantee that those bookings will be going ahead.

And venues were previously quite keen to have an 'in house DJ' that they paid £100 to and charged the client £500... venues will be keen for every penny, and 'quality' will be the first thing to go.

Do I want to spend the time building it all back up again, in what was already a competitive industry?

And actually, I'm enjoying not having a disrupted weekend...

rth_discos

29-06-2020, 09:04 PM

Imagine

29-06-2020, 10:55 PM

Well Leicester is our first indication of the 'new normal'.

Who fancies booking a lavish wedding when an entire town/city can be locked down 'just like that'.

I think we have a sign of what the future will look like...

This sort of uncertainty is going to be terrible for the economy.

Heard about that on the radio whilst out working tonight - that's actually quite scary.
Luckily, East Anglia and particularly Cambridgeshire hasn't been too badly affected by the whole thing, and fingers crossed it doesn't blow up later on.

I'm still thinking we're off the road until such time as a vaccine or at least a way of curing it is found unfortunately :(

Excalibur

30-06-2020, 06:31 AM

Well Leicester is our first indication of the 'new normal'.

Who fancies booking a lavish wedding when an entire town/city can be locked down 'just like that'.

I think we have a sign of what the future will look like...

This sort of uncertainty is going to be terrible for the economy.

I think that's part of the issue. Built up areas. Centres of population. Those of us who live in the wilds may have an advantage here, if the virus hasn't got any flare ups nearby.

Speaking with a respected colleague yesterday, he wondered if the first weddings we perform at may be where we modify our service somewhat. As opposed to turning up early, and doing ceremony music, background, speeches, and disco, we instead do the first three with a suitably sized rig, and then when we would crank it up for the disco, we pack it up and go home. Makes sense.

DJ Jules

30-06-2020, 07:38 AM

Speaking with a respected colleague yesterday, he wondered if the first weddings we perform at may be where we modify our service somewhat. As opposed to turning up early, and doing ceremony music, background, speeches, and disco, we instead do the first three with a suitably sized rig, and then when we would crank it up for the disco, we pack it up and go home. Makes sense.

Minimal music allowed for the ceremony, plus getting Brides to buy into the value of this part of the day has always been the hardest part to sell. There was a guy on the MDJN Facebook group last night who is boasting that he's "adapted to the situation" and is offering live streamed DJ sets for receptions for weddings and general parties. If he thinks that's going to get round the restrictions, then I don't think he's actually read the guidelines.

I don't think the Leicester thing is as scary as it sounds. They're only delaying re-opening by 2 weeks to give the infection rates more time to drop, not moving backwards to a stricter lockdown (despite the usual sensationalism in the press). But it does give us a flavour of things to come and how rapidly decisions could be made and the potential impact (if I had a wedding for this coming weekend, a lockdown in Leicester could have an impact if the Groom's family came from that area).

I wouldn't get too excited about being outside of densely populated areas Peter - Leicester is still arguing about where the boundary starts and finishes and there's a good chance that you'd get caught up in local lockdowns (or be affected if guests for your function come from a local built up area).

The interesting development for me yesterday was the publication of the guidelines for weddings as they're much better written than the guidelines for pubs/restaurants and make it clear what parts of the guidelines are law and which bits are just guidelines. They also give detail about enforcement. In short, restrictions on gatherings are law, everything else is a guideline to be enforced by H&S, initially by providing "friendly guidance" to help venues become compliant, but with the threat of sizeable fines and jail time for anyone who persistently or intentionally breaks them. My understanding is that they have some powers to shut venues where there is immediate danger to the public, but otherwise enforcement is a slow and complicated process that sometimes takes years so there will be a lot of focus on providing guidance, rather than enforcement. This probably gives a bit of a glimpse of how far venues are likely to be able to bend the rules before someone shuts them down. I suspect it's quite a long way as long as they're being sensible, especially if certain practices become widespread (they'll become un-enforcable).

Outside of weddings, I suspect venues won't take the risk for just an evening party. I personally think Pubs are in for a shock :(

Julian

[EDIT] Prom for 5th Sept just "confirmed they're going ahead". Bit optimistic.

Excalibur

30-06-2020, 08:16 AM

[EDIT] Prom for 5th Sept just "confirmed they're going ahead". Bit optimistic.

And my biggest gig of the year for 18th September just cancelled. :)

rth_discos

30-06-2020, 08:35 AM

I don't think the Leicester thing is as scary as it sounds. They're only delaying re-opening by 2 weeks to give the infection rates more time to drop, not moving backwards to a stricter lockdown (despite the usual sensationalism in the press).

They have very much gone backwards - non essential shops have had to close again.

They are pretty close to what was the original lockdown situation, with only essential shops back open.

And right now, we're well outside 'flu season'.

If this is the situation in the summer, what does the traditional 'flu season' (winter) have in store for us?

Imagine

30-06-2020, 08:49 AM

And right now, we're well outside 'flu season'.

If this is the situation in the summer, what does the traditional 'flu season' (winter) have in store for us?

Same thinking as me Gavin, and the reason I'm not looking at anything meaningful work-wise on the disco front until at least next Spring at the earliest.

Remember, the lockdowns were purely to stop the pressure on the NHS and make sure they had the capacity to treat people if they needed it. Once flu season comes around again and things get a little busier.....

ppentertainments

30-06-2020, 09:05 AM

I think this Leicester situation makes things even worse than we could imagine for us.

Who is going to risk organising a wedding/event with fear guests may not be allowed or the venue have to close ?
What if we have a booking in a different area and we have to lockdown ?
Seems to prove this virus is going to last a long long time.
Will people adapt to 'new style weddings' ?

For me, I think last nights announcement was the final nail. Going to be bringing everything I need out of storage and into the garage, sell (for next to nothing probably) any spare equipment, get rid of the van (basic disco will fit in the car) and look for something else.

Currently looking at business costs and see what I can shave off - web hosting the first as it is due soon.

Realistically if I need to expand again in future it isn't too difficult to do, but in the immediate future need something else. Went to look at 2 businesses yesterday and just waiting on figures coming through.

Sad time, but think we need a deadline for how much longer we can hold on.

DJ Jules

30-06-2020, 10:14 AM

Oops, OK. I missed that part of the announcement.

Benny Smyth

30-06-2020, 12:50 PM

Leicester's death rate is 6-10 times higher than the rest of the country.

If the death rate of an area has to be 10 times worse than average before a local lockdown is enforced, I can't see local lockdown being a weekly thing.

And it's Leicester. Not a seaside town where everyone has been congregating to or London, which was where everyone was expecting to have the most problems due to it's population density. It's almost as if Leicester hasn't taken this as seriously as the rest of the country...

I'm holding off the doom and gloom for now.

djdj

30-06-2020, 01:38 PM

And my biggest gig of the year for 18th September just cancelled. :)

Bad news mate All my September bookings are now cancelled (two were in private Marquees)

Things not looking Good
:(

Excalibur

01-07-2020, 06:39 AM

Bad news mate All my September bookings are now cancelled (two were in private Marquees)

Things not looking Good
:(

No problem for me. Due to my cast iron cancellation policy, I still get full pay from my agent! :Laugh:

ppentertainments

01-07-2020, 08:52 AM

Bad news mate All my September bookings are now cancelled (two were in private Marquees)

Things not looking Good
:(

Heard from one of my venues last night that they are postponing all September and October weddings now. They have been very pro-active throughout this and I believe it will be a sign of things to come.

Think realistically if you haven't yet mentally wiped this whole year off (at least) you are going to be very disappointed.

Following a quick discussion with my local council it is surprising how closely they are monitoring businesses breaking guidelines (or bending the rules).

East Anglian Discos

01-07-2020, 09:27 AM

DJ Jules

01-07-2020, 10:05 AM

Think realistically if you haven't yet mentally wiped this whole year off (at least) you are going to be very disappointed.

The Xmas Panto has just been cancelled in Norwich :(

Julian

DeckstarDeluxe

01-07-2020, 12:08 PM

Good to see that Government locked down Leicester, but I think dithered too long about it, just like the original decision to lock down the UK in March.

I am dreading 4 July. Wroxham will be flooded with holidaymakers this weekend as the Boats return to the broads, and the village crammed full of holidaymakers.

Good to see that Green King has some common sense and decided not to reopen until 6th.

I'm actually led to believe that's what some of the big multi ops were pushing for. It means it spreads the initial "burst" over a longer period (which helps manage it but also helps their turnover as well). Seems to have been ignored.

East Anglian Discos

01-07-2020, 12:25 PM

The Xmas Panto has just been cancelled in Norwich :(

Julian

Oh no it hasn't! - sorry couldn't help saying that :)

East Anglian Discos

01-07-2020, 12:26 PM

I'm actually led to believe that's what some of the big multi ops were pushing for. It means it spreads the initial "burst" over a longer period (which helps manage it but also helps their turnover as well). Seems to have been ignored.

Would have made sense to me.

ppentertainments

01-07-2020, 12:37 PM

The Xmas Panto has just been cancelled in Norwich :(

Julian
Just had a different venue message to say they are cancelling Xmas Parties although may have something a little different instead, which I can still be involved in.

Imagine

01-07-2020, 04:06 PM

Just had a different venue message to say they are cancelling Xmas Parties although may have something a little different instead, which I can still be involved in.

One of my local venues has decided to convert from being a dedicated wedding venue to a full on socially distanced restaurant for the foreseeable :o (probably explains why the remaining weddings for this year have contacted me to move to next year.....they were previously being strung along on the "business as usual" by your wedding date line until then).

More worryingly though - just seen this poll on the BBC

Most of Britain is preparing for an easing of lockdown restrictions.

But public concern at the risks from coronavirus has risen to the highest level since the end of April, a new poll conducted by Ipsos Mori this week suggests.

However, the survey also says the public is becoming more comfortable about returning to work and sending children back to school.

The poll of 1,076 British adults suggests increasing unease at the dangers posed by the virus.

A month ago, 37% of those surveyed said they were ‘very concerned’ about the risks to the country. This new poll suggests that has risen to 50%. Concern about the risks to individuals has also risen from 24% to 29%.

The survey asks people whether they would feel comfortable in a range of situations if lockdown measures were lifted. The proportion of parents who said they would be comfortable sending their children to school has risen to 49%, up from 38% a month earlier.

Two-thirds of people would be comfortable meeting friends or family outside their household, also a rise from four weeks before. But the poll suggests around six in 10 people would be anxious going to bars or restaurants, using public transport or lavatories and only 15% said they would be comfortable going to large sport or music events.

Ipsos MORI interviewed a representative sample of 1,078 British adults aged 18-75 online between 26-29 June 2020. Data are weighted to match the profile of the population. All polls are subject to a wide range of potential sources of error.”

I know it's only a tiny sample (1076 people), but the 85% who wouldn't be comfortable attending a music event is a bit shocking!

Benny Smyth

01-07-2020, 04:12 PM

I know it's only a tiny sample (1076 people), but the 85% who wouldn't be comfortable attending a music event is a bit shocking!

Large music events - we're talking concerts, festivals etc.

Weddings and birthday parties do not fall under the category of large events.

rth_discos

01-07-2020, 05:43 PM

But the poll suggests around six in 10 people would be anxious going to bars or restaurants,

I think this is the closest relevant stat. Same sort of numbers as a restaurant/bar - with the added 'bonus' of being people they know (which makes them feel a bit safer).

I know it's only a tiny sample (1076 people), but the 85% who wouldn't be comfortable attending a music event is a bit shocking!

Sadly your caveat doesn't quite change things as much as you would like.

A poll of 1,000 has a margin of error of +/- 3% (I've spent a lot of my time in the past working with surveys)

My fear is the worst is yet to come - not necessarily from Coronvirus, but the effects of the mass number of redundancies that are already being announced, and will continue to occur over the coming months. The number of wedding venues already announcing they won't be back is somewhat worrying.

Pe7e

01-07-2020, 08:39 PM

My fear is the worst is yet to come - not necessarily from Coronvirus, but the effects of the mass number of redundancies that are already being announced, and will continue to occur over the coming months.

This sums up how I see things turning out too, I think there are a huge number of people about to find themselves unemployed in the near future, who currently think there jobs are secure. Unfortunately companies forced into bankruptcy or administration tend to take other businesses down with them, I've had the misfortune of experiencing this firsthand, and it was not a pleasant experience to say the least. I'm sure things will eventually return to some sort of normality but it could well take years. I've experienced 3 recessions in my business life, the early 80's, the early 90's and the financial crisis of 2008/2009. By far the worst for me, was the 90's when Nigel Lawson drove the interest rates up to 15% while trying to keep UK membership of the exchange rate mechanism, which ultimately failed. Unfortunately the previous year I had took out a mortgage on a 10.000 sq ft industrial unit in Derby city center at 1% over base rate, the repayments almost drove me into personal bankruptcy, not an experience I would wish on anyone.

Excalibur

01-07-2020, 09:42 PM

I
My fear is the worst is yet to come - not necessarily from Coronvirus, but the effects of the mass number of redundancies that are already being announced, and will continue to occur over the coming months. The number of wedding venues already announcing they won't be back is somewhat worrying.

This sums up how I see things turning out too, I think there are a huge number of people about to find themselves unemployed in the near future, who currently think there jobs are secure. Unfortunately companies forced into bankruptcy or administration tend to take other businesses down with them,

The voices of reason! 97% of DJ's seem to think that when we are finally let off the leash, there will be a Tsunami of work in front of us. Ain't gonna happen, boys and girls, ain't gonna happen. Shortage of venues, price squeezes, lack of disposable income, unwillingness to mingle in large crowds- that's just a few of the problems we're going to face. :(

Imagine

01-07-2020, 09:57 PM

The voices of reason! 97% of DJ's seem to think that when we are finally let off the leash, there will be a Tsunami of work in front of us. Ain't gonna happen, boys and girls, ain't gonna happen. Shortage of venues, price squeezes, lack of disposable income, unwillingness to mingle in large crowds- that's just a few of the problems we're going to face. :(

I try to be the optimist (Gawd knows reality hit me at 4:30 this morning when I was woken up to go and drive a lorry on just above minimum wage so I need something to look forward to).

The venues issue.....hmm. I was starting to see many couples move away from bricks and mortar and into tents, so hopefully not too much change there. Two very well known venues on my patch have sadly closed their doors for good in the last couple of days alone.
Lack of disposable income....tricky. A lot depends on who your target clients are and indeed how much they value your services. There WILL be people that actually benefit from all of this, and there are people who are untouchable by things like recessions and spending squeezes. There are also those who are prepared to scrimp and save to get exactly what they want.
Unwillingness to mingle in large crowds....that's the tough one I can see moving forward. A BBC report today highlighted what I'm already experiencing in that people are unwilling to go to supermarkets in favour of either having their cheap plonk delivered or collecting it from the car park. There really does seem to be a massive reluctance to go inside buildings with a lot of other people. Now that the major supermarkets have increased the availability of online slots, the queues to get into the actual supermarkets have reduced massively from the early days!

I can't see the aforementioned Tsunami coming (at least in the long term). There might be a small rush once we're finally allowed back and before spending squeezes hit properly.

One thing you haven't mentioned is supply and demand. I'm seeing a LOT (and I really DO mean a LOT) of experienced DJs selling their entire setup due to not having any money or because they've become accustomed to not working every weekend. The results of that alone could be interesting.

It's going to be very interesting to see if anything happens three weeks on Saturday after the carnage of boozers re-opening.

DJ Jules

02-07-2020, 07:51 AM

One thing you haven't mentioned is supply and demand. I'm seeing a LOT (and I really DO mean a LOT) of experienced DJs selling their entire setup due to not having any money or because they've become accustomed to not working every weekend. The results of that alone could be interesting.

Conversely, there's a lot of Bedroom DJ's who are about to become unemployed who have spent the last 3 months practicing to FB/Twitch/MixCloud audiences and might look at a redundancy payment as an opportunity to try going it alone.

Fools!! :Laugh::Laugh:

Julian

rth_discos

03-07-2020, 08:14 AM

So it seems the 'new normal' is full of uncertainty.

In a short period of time (3 months) we've gone from thinking it's a short sharp lockdown, with a gradual easing of restriction, to a future where new restrictions can be brought in at any time.

The news yesterday that schools will return in September, along with measures to 'isolate' entire year groups if there is an outbreak means that it's going to be very difficult to plan anything with any certainty for the future. Alongside the Leicester lockdown, I fear that for the next few months at least, any new bookings will be off the cards. I can't see anyone wanting to commit to a new wedding at this rate.

So 2021 will be the postponed 2020 gigs, and fingers crossed, 2022 will be the year when bookings resume.

That's a long way off. How many will have the energy to continue that fight for that length of time - and how many will be settled into new routines, with new jobs, and enjoying a predictable income (salary) by that time?

stormproductions

03-07-2020, 10:45 AM

I've been saying for several months that it'll be a long time before my phone rings with new normal work, as people won't want to commit to potentially spending £20-50k on a party without a very high degree of certainty that they'll be able to go ahead with it without having to cancel and I can't imagine them wanting to hold an event with any form of distancing, so they'll be waiting to see how the next few months progress before doing anything. Some will be quicker than others to proceed, so my gut feeling is that next year will be better than some are expecting, providing there isn't a significant ongoing second spike, but of course I've not got a crystal ball either.

Having a good look at the figures on the BBC site for new confirmed cases across the UK, other than a couple of localised hotspots they appear to be falling quite rapidly now. And when you consider that quite a lot of those being confirmed are in hospitals or care homes, then the figures in the general population are really incredibly low. Obviously we're all aware that the actual figures are probably significantly higher than the number of positive tests, but there's also an increasing level of targeted testing so surely a higher proportion of cases must be being picked up.

I live in a very rural part of Wiltshire where we're being extremely careful about distancing, even though the chances of actually coming into contact with the virus are minimal (the whole of Wiltshire excluding the Swindon area appears to have had a total of 7 confirmed new cases last week). I fully admit I'm being careful not because I'm concerned for my own safety but for 'the greater good' and because it's what we're meant to do.

I'm lucky in that I've got a reasonable cushion, am keeping the costs down as much as I can and am very grateful for the government's help, especially in that I know it could be a long time before my income returns to normal levels, so I'm not worried financially. I've also got a big annual exterior lighting job over Christmas that the customer is still hoping to be able to hold in some format if they can get over budgeting issues so I've got my fingers crossed for that, but I'm not yet putting any effort into risk assessments and Covid secure working practices as I suspect things will change significantly over the next few months as the UK finds it way with dealing with it.

But I really am quite looking forward to finally being able to shake someone's hand again!

saduffy1

11-07-2020, 01:59 AM

It’s been a long time since I last posted - 2016 and 2017 weren’t the best years and then life has flown by. Until this year! Since I last contributed I’ve been on a long hiatus from mobile DJing but do still have relatives in the game. In early lockdown I was out walking one Saturday night and heard some one call my name. Turned around and it was a guy who I helped out over the years and who was still doing regular work. He was going stir crazy as he’d seldom had Saturday nights off since the 80s!

I was inspired to check back in because I drove through the nearest town centre yesterday night and it was a very sorry state of affairs. The pubs haven’t reopened in Wales yet as you probably know and the town was devoid of people unless you counted the odd few queuing outside chip shops. The weather wasn’t too bad and you wouldn’t think it was the second weekend in July. It had been the same last Saturday. I know some will think it’s bliss; I find it unnerving.
I drove past a few venues I’d played in and wondered how many will actually reopen.

I can empathise with a lot of the posts already, particularly comments from those who have enjoyed having the time to do other things on the weekends. That was the feeling that hit me when I started being a bit more selective about how many gigs I accepted when I began a full time day job over 10 years ago.

Hope 2021 is a better year for everyone!

Excalibur

22-07-2020, 07:14 AM

First of a different postponement for me, something which may perhaps happen more often. Couple booked me for a June wedding, were told that they may be able to marry in August, so asked me to pencil in the August date, and also one in June 2021, ie a year on from initial date.

Received an email last night, they are indeed marrying in August 2020, but we're having the big party/celebration in August 2021, again as a one year anniversary.

I wonder how many venues will urge couples to have weddings that were booked in ( although in a much reduced form ) to create a bit of cash flow now ( and hang on to a portion of money already paid), knowing that they can rebook the date next year with a new couple? :whistle:

rth_discos

22-07-2020, 07:22 AM

Received an email last night, they are indeed marrying in August 2020, but we're having the big party/celebration in August 2021, again as a one year anniversary.

I wonder how many will do this, and then 2-3 months after getting married realise that the expense of the 'big party' is unnecessary, and if it does happen, will be a very much reduced affair compared to what the wedding would have been.

ppentertainments

22-07-2020, 08:18 AM

I wonder how many will do this, and then 2-3 months after getting married realise that the expense of the 'big party' is unnecessary, and if it does happen, will be a very much reduced affair compared to what the wedding would have been.
Agree - after a year the wedding is 'over and done with' and people will have moved on with their lives. I think any 'party' will be of similar elk to most engagement parties - cheap room, cheap drink, cheap entertainment.

Plus, for next year at least, venues and suppliers will likely be running at capacity (or very close at least). I have now closed my diary for next year with exception of residency bookings. Whether those bookings will go ahead is anyones guess haha.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

22-07-2020, 11:55 AM

Agree - after a year the wedding is 'over and done with' and people will have moved on with their lives. I think any 'party' will be of similar elk to most engagement parties - cheap room, cheap drink, cheap entertainment.

Plus, for next year at least, venues and suppliers will likely be running at capacity (or very close at least). I have now closed my diary for next year with exception of residency bookings. Whether those bookings will go ahead is anyones guess haha.

That's why asking for 50% of your fee from the original date is a smart move. :confused:

ppentertainments

22-07-2020, 02:36 PM

That's why asking for 50% of your fee from the original date is a smart move. :confused:

Until they ask for a full refund :confused::confused:

Benny Smyth

22-07-2020, 02:55 PM

Until they ask for a full refund :confused::confused:

But then it's their own choice to cancel. Cancellation terms come into effect.

ppentertainments

22-07-2020, 03:10 PM

But then it's their own choice to cancel. Cancellation terms come into effect.

Hmm, maybe technically speaking - but with everything up in the air it might get messy.

Benny Smyth

22-07-2020, 04:27 PM

Hmm, maybe technically speaking - but with everything up in the air it might get messy.

No technically about it. If a couple decide to have the ceremony this year and have asked to transfer their booking of your DJ services to next year so they can have a larger party, if they cancel that party it will not be down to Covid-19. Cancellation terms come into effect.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

22-07-2020, 05:09 PM

Hmm, maybe technically speaking - but with everything up in the air it might get messy.

How will it get messy? Someone coming to me in October to move their date is cancelling. that's not technical, that is them moving the date when, I could be able to do it on that date.

We might not know wether we can or not but there's neither here nor there, THEY are making that decision based on the current situation.

It's no different to people who hedged their bets and cancelled Summer holidays in March and April - do you think TUI et al gave them their deposits or monies already paid back?

DJ Jules

22-07-2020, 08:08 PM

How will it get messy? Someone coming to me in October to move their date is cancelling. that's not technical, that is them moving the date when, I could be able to do it on that date.

I've just had exactly this, couple moved from May to Oct and have now decided to have a small wedding instead and are cancelling my services.

My standard terms say that if they give 2 months notice they only forfeit the deposit, so that's how I have had to deal with them. If I'd insisted that the original payment due dates stood, then they would have lost the whole fee.

Good for me? Not really. How much choice do I have...? Not a lot.

Julian

ppentertainments

22-07-2020, 08:21 PM

If I'd insisted that the original payment due dates stood, then they would have lost the whole fee.

That is what I have done - rearranged free of charge, however cancellation dates apply from the ORIGINAL date. Can see plenty of break ups happening. Whether I would enforce this is a different matter. So long as I have no refunds to make I am happy enough.

Imagine

22-07-2020, 11:37 PM

DJ Jules

23-07-2020, 06:30 AM

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I watched something like this unfold a couple of days ago on a wedding group - the couple wanted to cancel the celebration and the venue have refused to refund the deposit (as they're entitled to, due to costs). The venue have said they're happy to carry the deposit forward to a new date, but the couple don't want to do this as the groom is in one of the forces and can't predict when he'll be around. The bride has been very vocal across social media. However, the venue have produced a very good response to her that people seem to be buying into (basically saying that they're happy to move dates but, if you cancel, you will lose money and that they're acting in line with contracts signed and CMA guidance).

I've been keeping a close eye on my biggest risk bookings from the start, i.e. the ones who have paid large sums of money ahead of time and could (rightly) come asking for big refunds if they cancel and I've now got that number down to low single digits. Unfortunately I now have one couple coming up late Sept who rescheduled from April and (unless the plan changes from the dates stated) are going to have to either scale down their wedding to 30 people or move their date again).

I'm keeping deposits small for now and ring-fencing any advance payments so they sit in the bank. This current situation has really highlighted the dangers of using deposits/advance payments to supplement cash flow.

Still very scary times.

Julian

rth_discos

23-07-2020, 06:51 AM

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

This bit is critical. Our industry is predominantly operated by self-employed sole traders. There's the odd Limited Company, but not many.

Which means that we remain 100% liable.

So if we've taken in £20k of 'up front payments' that we need to refund, but don't have the money, we are still liable for it, whereas a Limited Company can simply shut shop.

Perversely, it's why I've always found it odd when people say they want to do business with a 'proper company' (a Ltd company), when that company has Limited Liability, and can shut shop anytime they like!

Excalibur

23-07-2020, 07:19 AM

Unfortunately at the moment, it's a case of playing ball and keeping the clients happy however possible, or facing a roasting on social media which is going to kill your reputation.

We're in "unprecedented" times at the moment. And a certain Mr Lewis isn't helping things with his dud information :mad:

I'm "lucky" if such a thing exists at the moment. We built up considerable savings over many years to see us through the bad times when I finally took the plunge into full time last April (not quite as bad as now but hey ho). I realised very early doors that this thing is going to have us off the road for a good time yet, took on a job (urgh....I WANT to be self employed.....not PAYE) and have stopped the savings bleeding away.

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

The upside is that many of the big players on my patch have given up hope, sold up (or are trying to at least), and moved on to different revenue streams. There's going to be a huge gap in the market when we're allowed out again and trust me, I'm ready to bring the business out of hibernation and fill that gap!
:youdaman: Give that man any prize off the top shelf! We're in a business where customer confidence, and good reputation are everything. The short term gain of fifty or a hundred quid pales into insignificance next to the bad publicity, and loss of possibly thousands of pounds from those people who would have booked, but for their friends telling them just how intransigent you were about sticking to the T&Cs of the original contract, and having your " pound of flesh".

We're a service industry, for heavens sake!

djeddie

23-07-2020, 07:41 AM

One thing to bear in mind is what is an "unfair term" in a contract. There used to be the Unfair Contracts Act 1977, which I think has been superceded... but, most unfair terms, when tested in court, take into mind circumstances. The UCA had a section for providing services that weren't provided and deposits etc being returned, but whichever Act has taken over it will include almost all of the UCA. Maybe worth checking it out.

You may have your cash and wonderfully-worded contract, but be prepared for it to be tested in court. It only takes one person to get the hump, shout loud enough on social media, get their local rag involved (along with the usual compo-face photo) and you could be heading for financial heartache and lots of bad publicity.

Which side would public opinion go, especially if any local rag has got involved? The heart-broken bride-to-be, whose magical day has been ruined? Or the nasty "Dave Double Decks"?

ppentertainments

23-07-2020, 07:53 AM

This bit is critical. Our industry is predominantly operated by self-employed sole traders. There's the odd Limited Company, but not many.

Which means that we remain 100% liable.

So if we've taken in £20k of 'up front payments' that we need to refund, but don't have the money, we are still liable for it, whereas a Limited Company can simply shut shop.

Perversely, it's why I've always found it odd when people say they want to do business with a 'proper company' (a Ltd company), when that company has Limited Liability, and can shut shop anytime they like!
Not strictly true - there are still Directors Liabilities to prevent people setting up businesses, raking up huge debts then declaring the business bankrupt. Whether this would come into play at this moment in time, I doubt it, but isn't the fail safe it once was.

ppentertainments

23-07-2020, 07:57 AM

Unfortunately at the moment, it's a case of playing ball and keeping the clients happy however possible, or facing a roasting on social media which is going to kill your reputation.

We're in "unprecedented" times at the moment. And a certain Mr Lewis isn't helping things with his dud information :mad:

I'm "lucky" if such a thing exists at the moment. We built up considerable savings over many years to see us through the bad times when I finally took the plunge into full time last April (not quite as bad as now but hey ho). I realised very early doors that this thing is going to have us off the road for a good time yet, took on a job (urgh....I WANT to be self employed.....not PAYE) and have stopped the savings bleeding away.

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

The upside is that many of the big players on my patch have given up hope, sold up (or are trying to at least), and moved on to different revenue streams. There's going to be a huge gap in the market when we're allowed out again and trust me, I'm ready to bring the business out of hibernation and fill that gap!

100% Agree. I think any (real) Full Time DJ should now either have a job or at least 12 months money aside they can live off. Even when the lid is lifted I can still see turbulent times ahead and hearing from venues about the lack of 'new' couples booking could spell a tough 2022.

I am not getting carried away about 2021. I have closed my diary now with the exception of residencies (thank you Mr VAT man) but still question how many will go ahead with big weddings if there are still real risks present. As I run almost to capacity anyway, I have still lost 2020 - the fact most have postponed is irrelevant as if 2020 went ahead I would have had new couples for 2021.

Will weddings change forever ?? Anyone got a crystal ball ? I can certainly see the frivolous offerings not being in demand any more.

rth_discos

23-07-2020, 08:05 AM

Not strictly true - there are still Directors Liabilities to prevent people setting up businesses, raking up huge debts then declaring the business bankrupt. Whether this would come into play at this moment in time, I doubt it, but isn't the fail safe it once was.

Of course - but a DJ who has been operating as a Limited Company for many years, but ends up falling over because of Covid is highly unlikely to fall foul of that. That is just in place to stop people intentionally doing that - not for those who run out of money because of an external factor that they have no control over.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

23-07-2020, 09:22 AM

2 real nuggets I've leant on since doing music biz studies at college: the customer isn't always right and you shouldn't have to placate them when they're wrong and it's the music business / industry, not the music charity.

Im 90% sure I'm going to stop taking bookings beyond my furthest one and pull the shutters down and on it all after that.

I'll happily see out that time defending my (award winning :zip: ) reputation against brides moaning about me adhering to our mutually beneficial contract and retaining money that I'm legally entitled to keep.

Excalibur

23-07-2020, 10:20 AM

2 real nuggets I've leant on since doing music biz studies at college: the customer isn't always right

Absolutely true, Jim. As a wise man told me many years ago though, they are however, always The Customer, one of the many and various people who pay your wages. Alienate too many, and business suffers. In the Day Job, I have a couple of customers who I'd rather never work for again, but I have to smile and be my usual accommodating self, as they're good payers. Ah well.

ppentertainments

23-07-2020, 02:10 PM

Benny Smyth

23-07-2020, 06:08 PM

We're a service industry, for heavens sake!

I have a client who has postponed from August this year to July next year. Postponement was agreed to on the understanding that 50% of the remaining balance is paid on the original due date and the remainder paid closer to their new date. One day after receiving an email reminding them of their invoice due date, they send an email cancelling.

I'm all for customer service and being a client advocate, but there comes a point where you have to be a businessman first.

DJ Jules

24-07-2020, 07:37 AM

I have a client who has postponed from August this year to July next year. Postponement was agreed to on the understanding that 50% of the remaining balance is paid on the original due date and the remainder paid closer to their new date. One day after receiving an email reminding them of their invoice due date, they send an email cancelling.

My recent refund has made me rethink my rescheduling policy (certainly for any rescheduling post 1st Oct) and I'll be asking any new re-schedulers to sign new terms and conditions that will go some way to protecting me from repeat rescheduling or cancelling. I'm going to have a good think about what I'm going to put in them to try and be as fair as possible to me and them, but the reality is that the horse has bolted as I've only got a handful left for this year that are likely to reschedule.

The thing that REALLY came as a shock yesterday was looking at my income for this financial year. Ok, it's possible that Jan, Feb and March might still fill up (they don't traditionally book up until a few months prior) but I'm turning away anything for Aug and Sept and I doubt I'm going to get many/any new bookings for Oct, Nov or Dec. At present, income for FY 2020/2021 is looking like it's going to be around 20% of 2019/2020. If Xmas is cancelled, it'll be more like 5-10%.

Plus I've now got lots of clean kit and pretty flight cases, but I've probably forgotten how to DJ :D

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

24-07-2020, 09:36 AM

ppentertainments

24-07-2020, 07:00 PM

Bingo and I've said from day 1 we all need to be careful how we deal with this as we could shoot ourselves in the foot.

Being nice is good and all but giving couples all the leverage leaves you vulnerable - none of this is our fault either...
I kind of hope a result from all this is that wedding suppliers become business people rather than all the 'luvvy duvvy' talk we are used too.

It did seem to be going that way, however now certain suppliers can return I am seeing the trend returning to the norm. In fact all these 'changes for the better' we were hearing about overall seems to have gone out the window.

saduffy1

29-07-2020, 10:56 PM

Caught up with the replies and had a few flashbacks.

I laughed at ppentertainments mentioning the ‘luvvy duvvy’ talk from other wedding suppliers. Some other non-DJ folk in the wedding market I encountered over the years came across as being quite naïve in their attitude from my perspective so I can guess the sort of talk!

Repeat rescheduling

I had a client once who did a bit of repeat rescheduling. I had a term in my contracts about a £10 admin fee for rearranging/variation, which I put in after taking inspiration from how hotels, train operators, airlines, insurance companies etc charge admin fees if you want to change something about a booking. I rarely had a need to ask for it.

However, I‘d agreed to do an end of year school disco for Year 6 children being organised by parents. They’d already been unable to book their usual DJ, who is a friend of mine, as they’d changed the date and he was away on holiday. Well, after booking me and I’d sent out the confirmation and contract they rang to change the date a second time, which was fine because it moved from a Wednesday to a Tuesday in the same week.

In the meantime I had a signed contract returned in the post and a deposit. However, about a week before the gig they rang and asked to change the times. It actually meant I’d have to finish the day job slightly earlier to accommodate, which meant using up some annual leave. Now this was beginning to rattle me so I said, “ok but there’s a £10 admin fee.” The lady got a bit narky but I pointed out she’d changed the booking once before with me and I hadn’t asked for a admin fee as per the contract. I also explained although I could accommodate the earlier start time meant I’d have to finish work earlier and use up annual leave. She said she’d have to speak to the other mothers. A different lady rang back later and said, “I’m sorry we’ve messed you about a bit.”
I ended up getting a tip after that particular gig too.

At the end of the day rescheduling is contract variation and if you get the feeling the client is a bit or could be a bit flaky, I’d try and renegotiate something for you as well.

Imagine

30-07-2020, 12:05 AM

I had a client once who did a bit of repeat rescheduling. I had a term in my contracts about a £10 admin fee for rearranging/variation, which I put in after taking inspiration from how hotels, train operators, airlines, insurance companies etc charge admin fees if you want to change something about a booking. I rarely had a need to ask for it.

THIS is something I'm going to be looking at when/if things rotate back round to some kind of normal. In fact I'll be engaging a solicitor to advise/re-write my entire contract once I can afford to do so. After all, car insurance companies get away with around £50 a time for a contract/policy change as I recently found out! If they can do it (just for pressing a few buttons on a keyboard) why can't I? The public accept it as a fact of life on that account - how is my business any different?

In my current job as a supermarket home delivery driver, if the customer isn't in when I knock the door - they have to PAY for a re-delivery (it's a change of contract). It's accepted and is normal to them. Again, this should apply to me.

I can't afford to do it at the moment until such time as there is proper guidance that we have some sort of timeline as to when things might return to normal. My next booking is 6th March 2021 and I'm not prepared to wager that THAT one will go ahead in the way we know and love. As a result, I'm not even entertaining new bookings until we know for certain what will and won't be allowed from the perspective of what we do for a living. ALL outgoings are off the table other than storage and insurance at the moment.

Too many times in the past a customer has changed things and I've just gone with the flow rather than lose the booking/upset the customer.
Even in the light of the current pandemic, I've been far too lenient with reschedules and changes. My contract isn't tight enough at the moment to enforce things either way though.

I've learned a LOT of lessons from this COVID thing, and once I bring the business back out of hibernation when it's safe to do so....I'm going to be working one hell of a lot differently!

DJ Jules

30-07-2020, 07:21 AM

In my current job as a supermarket home delivery driver, if the customer isn't in when I knock the door - they have to PAY for a re-delivery (it's a change of contract). It's accepted and is normal to them. Again, this should apply to me.

Before I started Disco's, I hired out Bouncy Castles and I still dry hire lights and PA (including delivery/collection) so when I wrote my current contract, I came at it with first hand experience of how flighty and disorganised Joe Public can be and what that can do to a busy delivery schedule and other customers. Because of this, I have clauses that cover failed deliveries/collections as well as re-delivery and last minute changes and, sadly, I have to use them quite often. I use a payment gateway that holds the card details in a manner that allows me to take additional payments if needed, so enforcing the terms is easy and I've never had an extracharge disputed :D

I've just updated my contract terms again around rescheduling and cancellations. I noticed that Guides for Brides did a piece earlier this week on micro and 2 part weddings, encouraging venues and suppliers to embrace them with a "you'll get paid twice and couples will want to spend more on the celebration" type message without mentioning the risk of the 2nd part being cancelled if the wedding goes ahead now. I'm sure venues will have covered their backs as their terms are usually the most stringent and they'll probably be sat on full payment for both parts before the first part goes ahead, but other suppliers (like me) will probably be quite exposed.

I've now had 5 of my July/August couples split their weddings and get married and 3 of them have now cancelled the parties, of the other two, one has converted the party into a joint 30th/50th and the other is planning an anniversary party next July. So, personally, I'm not seeing couples want to split the marriage from the celebration and supersize the celebration (some after waiting 6 months+ to get married), they just seem to want to get married and put all of the stress behind them.

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

30-07-2020, 10:59 AM

I laughed at ppentertainments mentioning the ‘luvvy duvvy’ talk from other wedding suppliers. Some other non-DJ folk in the wedding market I encountered over the years came across as being quite naïve in their attitude from my perspective so I can guess the sort of talk!

Repeat rescheduling

I had a client once who did a bit of repeat rescheduling. I had a term in my contracts about a £10 admin fee for rearranging/variation, which I put in after taking inspiration from how hotels, train operators, airlines, insurance companies etc charge admin fees if you want to change something about a booking. I rarely had a need to ask for it.

However, I‘d agreed to do an end of year school disco for Year 6 children being organised by parents. They’d already been unable to book their usual DJ, who is a friend of mine, as they’d changed the date and he was away on holiday. Well, after booking me and I’d sent out the confirmation and contract they rang to change the date a second time, which was fine because it moved from a Wednesday to a Tuesday in the same week.

In the meantime I had a signed contract returned in the post and a deposit. However, about a week before the gig they rang and asked to change the times. It actually meant I’d have to finish the day job slightly earlier to accommodate, which meant using up some annual leave. Now this was beginning to rattle me so I said, “ok but there’s a £10 admin fee.” The lady got a bit narky but I pointed out she’d changed the booking once before with me and I hadn’t asked for a admin fee as per the contract. I also explained although I could accommodate the earlier start time meant I’d have to finish work earlier and use up annual leave. She said she’d have to speak to the other mothers. A different lady rang back later and said, “I’m sorry we’ve messed you about a bit.”
I ended up getting a tip after that particular gig too.

At the end of the day rescheduling is contract variation and if you get the feeling the client is a bit or could be a bit flaky, I’d try and renegotiate something for you as well.

Ah the good all: PM me hun xxxx brigade.

But I digress. Speaking of constant changing. I'm dealing with a client just now who it would be unfair to call a nightmare but there's been issues fromd ay one

Multiple reschedules - weekdays so not a huge issue.

Paid deposit then asked for half back as he'd gone overdrawn. This was done then explained the booking wasn't secure until it had been restored. This took something like 9 months for him to finally do.

I got an e-mail from him yesterday. Seems like DJEP sent out an automated balance reminder to him from the original date.

The e-mail was quite blunt something like: "This is a mistake surely, we've rescheduled to date x 2021."

I may be over reading it as it's of course difficult to guage intent with text but it kind of :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ed me off he was that blunt. Surely a "hey man, just checking if this is right or not?" would have been nicer given how much I've bent for them.

Anyways. I responded yes it was a mistake that must have slipped through the net when changing the booking details however 50% of his balance was due by the original date as per my rescheduling terms.

Radio silence since, not even a response of acknowledgement. The deadline is due on Monday so it'll be interesting to see how he comes when I do start e-mailing him about money.

DJ Jules

30-07-2020, 03:16 PM

Radio silence since, not even a response of acknowledgement. The deadline is due on Monday so it'll be interesting to see how he comes when I do start e-mailing him about money.

Are you taking bets? :D

Julian

Imagine

30-07-2020, 06:55 PM

Excalibur

30-07-2020, 07:40 PM

Two, yes TWO of next year's rescheduled brides have now pulled the plug on me completely :( (apparently they can't see things being back to how they'd like to celebrate by the time their weddings come around).
I have a feeling there's going to be a proper tsunami of this in the coming months....

Proper little ray of sunshine, aren't you? :p Everybody else is forecasting wall to wall midweek weddings. Fill your boots time. :beerchug:

However:

I broadly agree with you. :( What we're likely to get at the moment is a bit of background music and PA for thirty people, or if we're really lucky, a proper function perhaps as a one year anniversary.

Worst case scenario is a realisation that the ceremony for family and close friends is the important part, and the big shindig is a costly luxury, especially when people may have lost significant amounts of their income. I'm sorry, but I don't see a glut of work coming our way, more like a rash of cancellations. :( Yours, Cassandra.

Imagine

30-07-2020, 08:45 PM

And sadly - sudden local lockdowns are going to be a thing for a while to come as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53602362

Who'd want to take the risk of organising and paying for a massive party when this could happen the day before it happens?

DJ Jules

31-07-2020, 06:41 AM

Add to this that Guides for Brides, Hitched, etc are all pushing mini-monies and live streamed weddings (by phone!) and it feels like 2021's wall weddings might be just a little bit optimistic.

On the plus side, my kit is now all snugly flight cased, should it happen to ever leave the premises again (I've finally got round to finishing the build on proper flight cases for some of my lights).

Julian

ppentertainments

31-07-2020, 08:37 AM

Add to this that Guides for Brides, Hitched, etc are all pushing mini-monies and live streamed weddings (by phone!) and it feels like 2021's wall weddings might be just a little bit optimistic.

Julian
Can't see 2021 being much busier than this year if honest. Not being negative, but who in their right mind is going to risk 000's and all that planning, for an event which may not go ahead. At the end of the day being married is not THAT important nowadays and certainly something which can be easily put off for a few years.

Heard many couples saying they are going to have a family then get married rather than the other way round which actually makes sense.

A lot of venues etc are also pushing the 'get married this year, have a party next year' idea - of course by next year the party simply won't happen.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

31-07-2020, 10:27 AM

Can't see 2021 being much busier than this year if honest. Not being negative, but who in their right mind is going to risk 000's and all that planning, for an event which may not go ahead. At the end of the day being married is not THAT important nowadays and certainly something which can be easily put off for a few years.

Heard many couples saying they are going to have a family then get married rather than the other way round which actually makes sense.

A lot of venues etc are also pushing the 'get married this year, have a party next year' idea - of course by next year the party simply won't happen.

Sadly, and I'm an eternal optimist, I think you may ne correct.

I'm now 99.7% sure I'm wrapping it in. I wonder where I stand if people start trying to move 2021 dates into 2022 when my last booking is likely to be the end of October 2021.

I suppose as soon as live music is back on the cards in any shape or form at weddings it's a cancellation...

rth_discos

31-07-2020, 12:34 PM

Can't see 2021 being much busier than this year if honest. Not being negative, but who in their right mind is going to risk 000's and all that planning, for an event which may not go ahead. At the end of the day being married is not THAT important nowadays and certainly something which can be easily put off for a few years.

I think today's lunchtime announcement has confirmed that, especially from Professor Chris Whitty who confirmed that we have 'reached the limit of what can be opened up'.

And this is during the summer period.

Until a vaccine is found, or the virus mutates itself to something less harmful (which I fear is out best chance out of this), then we are stuck in this situation now.

ppentertainments

31-07-2020, 12:59 PM

I think today's lunchtime announcement has confirmed that, especially from Professor Chris Whitty who confirmed that we have 'reached the limit of what can be opened up'.

And this is during the summer period.

Until a vaccine is found, or the virus mutates itself to something less harmful (which I fear is out best chance out of this), then we are stuck in this situation now.

Think that quote from Chris Whitty really hit the nail on the head and was a stark warning.

I am glad I have a job at present, not really enough £££ but can survive off it - think future plans are needing to be looked at now though and can't see DJing being part of them - certainly not short term

Imagine

31-07-2020, 01:12 PM

Think that quote from Chris Whitty really hit the nail on the head and was a stark warning.

I am glad I have a job at present, not really enough £££ but can survive off it - think future plans are needing to be looked at now though and can't see DJing being part of them - certainly not short term

Same here sadly. I'm counting myself lucky that I managed to get a job before everyone else found out they were going to need one. With furlough rules changing....there's a lot of uncertainty coming up at the moment.
As for DJing, I think we've been consigned to the history books for a couple of years yet :(

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

31-07-2020, 01:45 PM

As for DJing, I think we've been consigned to the history books for a couple of years yet :(

Yeah that's my thought process as the year drags on - I had it in my mind we'd lose the Summer, pick things up in the Autumn / Winter and next year would be back to the usual except with added 2020 reschedules.

It really doesn't look like that is going to be the case and I really can't be arsed faffing about with another 12 months of more of doing nothing productive except bouncing back e-mails and trying to reschedule dates.

Imagine

31-07-2020, 10:29 PM

Yeah that's my thought process as the year drags on - I had it in my mind we'd lose the Summer, pick things up in the Autumn / Winter and next year would be back to the usual except with added 2020 reschedules.

That was my initial hope too. It's very unlikely though.

I've now lost THREE of this year's reschedules, and after today's shock announcement I'm expecting the whole lot to come tumbling down soon. After all, who wants to plan a wedding when there's the potential for it to be closed down the day before it happens?

My next move is to go down to a fraction of my current storage space. Instead of a nicely laid out and racked container, I'm afraid it's going to be a case of getting a smaller unit and cramming stuff in....it's not going anywhere for a long time to come from what I'm seeing and I might as well make the losses as small as possible.

We WILL come out of the other side of this eventually - but my personal feelings are that it's going to take a very long time and indeed, mean restarting the business pretty much from scratch on everything except the purchase of the kit.

Until then, it looks like I'm going to be "living well on less" for a very long time yet :o

DJ Jules

01-08-2020, 06:15 AM

ppentertainments

01-08-2020, 09:03 AM

Someone pointed this out to me yesterday and it's possible it might help a few out...

South Glos Council have discretionary grants of up to £5k to give to businesses affected by Covid19. They were intended to help B&B's and people running businesses from shared premises where they don't directly pay business rates and were being hit with ongoing costs for rent so the criteria was initially set so that you could only apply if you had commercial business premises. However, South Glos have now gone through two rounds of awards and still have money in the pot so they're doing a third round and widened the criteria to include businesses run from residential premises.

Obviously the criteria are set by the council so it's going to vary from area to area, but it might be something worth looking at for any who haven't been able to get assistance through any of the other schemes. South Glos ask for proof of ongoing costs by providing bank statements and they appear to be evaluating it based on income from Feb 1st to May 31st (why Feb is in there I have no idea!!)

Julian
Think most councils have money left, but it is up to each council how they dish it out. In County Durham the criteria (even today) is that at least 3 people must be employed (PAYE) by the company applying.

Very unfair I think as Furlough is there to protect staff, this is supposed to be to try and protect businesses.

My biggest gripe with all the 'help' is that a self-employed person, or company without premises gets £0 help for protecting their business - with exception of a loan. My window cleaner has never had to stop working, got the £10k initial grant, gets SEISS, and also benefitted from this latest help to assist with PPE costs for staff - even though they have no PPE. He is laughing and has gained massively.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

01-08-2020, 09:59 AM

There's a fully paid up October bride just pulled it and I'm not available on their new date.

Horrible Capitalist me should (and could) have kept their dough.

Not being a total dick me has given a full refund.

DJ me is putting it out their now so I stick to it - I'm seeing out the rest of my gigs and jacking it in at the end of next year. :(

stormproductions

01-08-2020, 11:23 AM

@ppentertainments - self employed are eligible for SEISS if they've been adversely affected, have traded since 2018/2019 tax year, SE income makes up at least 50% of total income and totals less than £50k. First grants have been dished out, 2nd grants can be applied for from 17th August.

However (and controversially), the £10k Small Business Grants did not have any 'adversely affected' clause.

So if your window cleaner was adversely affected then yes, they could legitimately claim SEISS, but if they were still raking it in at their usual turnover then it would have been a fraudulent claim (which HMRC will retrospectively be hunting for).

I'm not sure which scheme you're referring to regarding financial support for PPE provision so can't comment there.

And of course I wouldn't like to make aspersions about window cleaners being stereotypical tax dodgers with lots of undeclared cash...

DJ Jules

01-08-2020, 01:13 PM

Think most councils have money left, but it is up to each council how they dish it out. In County Durham the criteria (even today) is that at least 3 people must be employed (PAYE) by the company applying.

Very unfair I think as Furlough is there to protect staff, this is supposed to be to try and protect businesses.

Yup, I know its a long shot and the criteria varies from area to area, but it may worth looking at. I did check some of the neighbouring areas and Bristol is doing similar, whereas Gloucester has just shut the doors on the scheme :(

They always said it was going to be a bit of a blunt instrument and wouldn't be as fair as they liked, but there are massive disparities between the support people have had and there doesn't seem to be any desire to fix it...

Julian

ppentertainments

01-08-2020, 01:26 PM

Imagine

01-08-2020, 01:52 PM

HMRC will no doubt be following up on SEISS payments, hence maybe why there is quite a recruitment drive at the moment, however the whole SEISS, furlolugh, grant schemes have been a major error in my opinion.

They’ve been majorly unfair. Too many small businesses have fallen through the net for various reasons such as not trading long enough to qualify or not having rateable premises etc.

It would have been so much fairer if those who didn’t qualify were able to show what they would have earned for the year and have support based on that.

Excalibur

02-08-2020, 10:26 AM

They’ve been majorly unfair. Too many small businesses have fallen through the net for various reasons such as not trading long enough to qualify or not having rateable premises etc.

It would have been so much fairer if those who didn’t qualify were able to show what they would have earned for the year and have support based on that.

That was the stumbling block for the grants! :( I suspect most discos operate from private houses, and store gear elsewhere, or at home. When we're a profession that goes to the customer ( rather than the customer coming to us ) it's only the largest operators who will have a business warehouse/workshop.

mattydj50

02-08-2020, 08:04 PM

That was the stumbling block for the grants! :( I suspect most discos operate from private houses, and store gear elsewhere, or at home. When we're a profession that goes to the customer ( rather than the customer coming to us ) it's only the largest operators who will have a business warehouse/workshop.

Absolutely sir. I work from home and store my gear at home so have no business premises. I have a full time day job that accounts for greater than 50% of my annual income (which can also include any early pension income that I may have), so I am not entitled to any of the money on the table.

My stepdaughter, who runs her own hair and beauty salon has been coining it in which, as she was planning to move premises, has helped refurbish the new location. Of course, the lack of revenue made things difficult but she also managed to furlough her two staff. She was also on maternity benefit for a period which helped the cause.

I did write to my MP as the NADJ (and others have promoted, but, if you know who my MP is (a failed ex leader of the Labour Party), you will understand that I don't put a lot of faith in even getting a reply (I am still owed one from each of 2007 and 2009).

As for the venue I work at, well, the silence is, er, silently silent,

ppentertainments

09-08-2020, 09:06 AM

Imagine

09-08-2020, 10:24 AM

Personally I’ve taken to regularly writing to my MP. She might actually get round to answering me one day 😳

ppentertainments

09-08-2020, 01:32 PM

Personally I’ve taken to regularly writing to my MP. She might actually get round to answering me one day 

Might still be working out how to copy/paste - seems all replies are very similar.

We understand
It is dreadful
Totally agree with you
Nothing we can do
Good luck

Imagine

09-08-2020, 03:19 PM

Might still be working out how to copy/paste - seems all replies are very similar.

We understand
It is dreadful
Totally agree with you
Nothing we can do
Good luck

You forgot the “unprecedented level of support”

Yeah...unless you’ve only been full time for 11 months 😡

ppentertainments

09-08-2020, 04:09 PM

You forgot the “unprecedented level of support”

Yeah...unless you’ve only been full time for 11 months 
Don't worry, I've been full time 10 years, and still got next to nothing :mad:

DJ Jules

10-08-2020, 06:53 AM

It has just dawned on me, that as DJs we are well and truly lining ourselves up to be totally forgotten.

2 'main campaigns' to help would be the return of live performances and the return of weddings, however :

A. the return of 'live performances' is likely to NOT include DJs, so when the rest (or most) of the live performance industry is back at work, we will be on our own.

B. Weddings - so much focus is on 30 people being allowed to basically have a meal after their ceremony. Once this is allowed we will again be on our own as most of the wedding industry will be back at work.

The only campaign DJs have is the #savedjentertainment which has very little following or support outside of a handful of DJs.

Is anything else happening to try and support our cause for a return date / roadmap / assistance ???

Yup, been saying that for a while. It's now clear that we are going to be literally the last to return, and it's quite possible that all of the custom we think has rescheduled, might still be lost as the functions might be forced to go ahead without us. We've hit a point now where people are getting impatient and are either just doing what they're allowed to at the moment, cancelling or just quietly going ahead regardless. Guides for Brides keep posting about micro weddings and split functions, neither of which help us at all. I've also seen photographers post quite a few pics this weekend of weddings and celebrations that are 100% outside the current guidelines that suggests some people are happy to completely ignore the rules.

My Xmas season was booked to a Theatre and they cancelled last week as they're now definitely not planning a return this year. I'm waiting for this weeks announcements before I contact a couple of proms that a hotel (optimistically) booked for early Sept. Not hopeful. All of the rhetoric in the news at the moment suggests that we're about to take a step backwards in lockdown measures (probably at a regional level) as schools return.

I'm pretty sure Benny has lost his bet for Oct.

Julian

Excalibur

10-08-2020, 10:07 AM

I'm pretty sure Benny has lost his bet for Oct.

Julian

Don't think he specified a year. :whistle:

ppentertainments

10-08-2020, 11:13 AM

Yup, been saying that for a while. It's now clear that we are going to be literally the last to return, and it's quite possible that all of the custom we think has rescheduled, might still be lost as the functions might be forced to go ahead without us. We've hit a point now where people are getting impatient and are either just doing what they're allowed to at the moment, cancelling or just quietly going ahead regardless. Guides for Brides keep posting about micro weddings and split functions, neither of which help us at all. I've also seen photographers post quite a few pics this weekend of weddings and celebrations that are 100% outside the current guidelines that suggests some people are happy to completely ignore the rules.

My Xmas season was booked to a Theatre and they cancelled last week as they're now definitely not planning a return this year. I'm waiting for this weeks announcements before I contact a couple of proms that a hotel (optimistically) booked for early Sept. Not hopeful. All of the rhetoric in the news at the moment suggests that we're about to take a step backwards in lockdown measures (probably at a regional level) as schools return.

I'm pretty sure Benny has lost his bet for Oct.

Julian

I really think a LOT of weddings will go ahead with whatever restrictions are in place. Yes, quite a few 'bend the rules' but this still won't be enough to sustain a business, even if you were prepared to go along.

Short term, I have quite a few Oct/Nov weddings still and they haven't postponed as early as other months. Expectations are high that they can go ahead as planned, however if this isn't the case I can see a lot simply going ahead without an evening reception.

Xmas - 2 of my residencies have already said they aren't doing Xmas parties with exception of any private bookings. Will we be allowed to supply a disco by then ? Who knows. The back of my mind I think yes, however so much depends on the current situation and also threat of a surge in Winter.

The local lockdown has been a real worry for me. Not only do I supply discos in other areas, I also have to consider that a lot of couples/families travel from other areas - will the risk be too great ?

Split functions - NEVER going to happen, move on and if you are relying on them I think you need to have a good hard think.

The future - I think weddings have definitely changed for good. I have always said 80% of what couples spend on a wedding is a total waste of money. I have even seen venues reducing prices as lets face it, for a standard 3 course meal the costs were horrific.

Saving grace for us is I can still see discos being in demand eventually (I am talking summer 2021 at the earliest). The people I think will struggle are the non essential addons - venue dressers, dancefloors, love letters, and all the other stuff people waste money on.

The wedding industry is apprehensive to see what announcements are made this week and majority are only campaigning for receptions to be allowed for 30 people. This just is NOT ENOUGH, especially for ourselves. There will be the odd exception, but apart from those already booked, if weddings are only going to be allowed for 30 people not many will be paying full price for suppliers. Some suppliers seem ignorant to this and so long as bookings are in the diary they are happy - perhaps why so many have struggled to get anything from SEISS etc (myself included in that).

Moving away from weddings - I think the bubble will burst with pubs/clubs having entertainment too. Social distancing is here for a long long time and although they are enjoying swift trade at the moment once bad weather arrives (putting a stop to outdoor events) and the real job cost of all this sinks in, many will struggle. A lot seem to have forgot how much they struggled before.

Sapphire Disco

10-08-2020, 12:12 PM

I think there will be a vaccine by early next year and by summer 2021 we'll be back to normal.

rth_discos

10-08-2020, 12:57 PM

I think there will be a vaccine by early next year and by summer 2021 we'll be back to normal.

hope

ppentertainments

10-08-2020, 01:58 PM

I think there will be a vaccine by early next year and by summer 2021 we'll be back to normal.
BUT - what will be normal by then ?
Wedding trends quickly change. As I say I don't think we will be affected too much, but almost certain weddings as we knew them will be a thing of the past with exception of those already underway with planning.

DJ Jules

10-08-2020, 03:15 PM

Short term, I have quite a few Oct/Nov weddings still and they haven't postponed as early as other months. Expectations are high that they can go ahead as planned, however if this isn't the case I can see a lot simply going ahead without an evening reception.

I have a September wedding who is "waiting for the next announcement" - this is after I've told him that numbers are definitely not going to be relaxed until at least Oct. I'm waiting to see if he's going to be one of the rule breakers, if he is, I won't be there.

The local lockdown has been a real worry for me. Not only do I supply discos in other areas, I also have to consider that a lot of couples/families travel from other areas - will the risk be too great ?

This is the biggest problem - who wants to plan any kind of function and take the risk of advertising costs and lining up suppliers if there is a high chance that it could be cancelled by the government with no notice at all.

Split functions - NEVER going to happen, move on and if you are relying on them I think you need to have a good hard think.

I think I mentioned this on this thread before, the couples I've had go for a split function (marry now, party later) have got married and then cancelled the party. If I were them, I'd be doing the same, especially if I've already had to plan and re-plan my wedding twice.

Saving grace for us is I can still see discos being in demand eventually (I am talking summer 2021 at the earliest). The people I think will struggle are the non essential addons - venue dressers, dancefloors, love letters, and all the other stuff people waste money on.

Based on how B&G's tend to perceive these items we could find that DJ's are the things that are considered "a waste of money" and are the first to go.... :daft:

Moving away from weddings - I think the bubble will burst with pubs/clubs having entertainment too. Social distancing is here for a long long time and although they are enjoying swift trade at the moment once bad weather arrives (putting a stop to outdoor events) and the real job cost of all this sinks in, many will struggle. A lot seem to have forgot how much they struggled before.

There's quite a few clubs around here who seem to have suddenly become bars. Fair enough, they have adjusted how they operate and now limit numbers and offer table service for drinks, but I still can't see them being particularly safe places to be when they're open 10pm to 5am!! Most of them ditched pre-booking after the first week and are now happily accepting walk-ins, so I'm guessing that they're not filling all the seats.

Imagine

10-08-2020, 03:32 PM

Hmmm....just had a very interesting conversation with my mechanic whilst picking up the disco bus from it's MOT.
He was under the assumption that because weddings were sort of going ahead and that pubs were open again, that I was back at work behind the decks.

Just goes to show that even Joe Public don't understand what we're going through at the moment :daft:

Excalibur

10-08-2020, 03:45 PM

I think there will be a vaccine by early next year and by summer 2021 we'll be back to normal.

hope

I'm not going to make a flippant response to that, merely that I would agree with Gavin.

Benny Smyth

10-08-2020, 03:46 PM

I'm pretty sure Benny has lost his bet for Oct.

Don't think he specified a year. :whistle:

I'm less confident on that prediction happening, but I haven't fully written it off yet...

stormproductions

10-08-2020, 06:43 PM

Well I've actually picked up a little work - power and lighting for an outdoor theatre show that's being held for the last 2 weeks of August in some woods behind a venue I regularly provide exterior lighting for. Won't be a huge amount of money in it but I'm really looking forward to actually doing some work. Just hope I can remember which end of a cable is which.

I've just read an article about an event being held for a couple of months at a large country house where they've set up a stage and LED screen across a river from where they've set up an audience area for up to 500 people with benches and umbrellas etc, clearly marked to keep groups separate. Looks like they're having a mixture of bands, film screenings, 'pop up pub' nights etc, but one of the photos clearly showed a DJ on the stage. I'm not aware of any regulations/recommendations that specifically prevent DJs performing, but there's certainly no group dancing allowed which is where everyone on this forum will suffer. I've yet to approach any of my existing clients suggesting that I come along and spin some tunes for them plus 4 of their family/friends (total 6!), although thinking about it that's not such a crazy idea in these wierd times...

The owner of one of the marquee companies I regularly work with asked me about providing a PA for his daughter's wedding, casually saying they were planning on '30 people plus kids'. My suspicion is that was going to mean 45 people, plus kids, plus staff etc and I can't imagine any way people would be keeping 2m apart by 11pm. In some ways I can't blame them for pushing the boundaries and getting on with their lives, but there's a reason the government has put a limit of 30 people rather than '30 people plus kids plus a few extras plus staff plus whoever else happens to be there'. I did turn his request down, mainly because I know they'd crank it to 11 and I'd have roughly a 50% chance of getting the kit back with no damage.

Pazz

10-08-2020, 06:47 PM

Not to be the bearer of bad news but Mark Drakeford The First Minister here in Wales has had a few things to say today.

It was particularly noteworthy what he said when he was describing the perfect conditions for where the coronavirus thrives...

Someone asked when nightclubs can reopen (10mins 15secs of link below)... his reply was

"Nightclubs are not yet on the list of venues that can be reopened safely"

"Important for us to remember what conditions the virus thrives in..."

"Thrives in the indoors rather than outdoors, thrives in the dark as opposed to the light"

"Where ventilation is not part of the way a venue operates"

"And in a way I'm describing a nightclub..."

Also in reply to someone asking "when djs and other entertainment will be allowed in pubs and wedding receptions"... He said "the virus thrives not just in places where it's cold or dark or damp or where there isn't ventilation but the virus thrives in places that are loud and loud music makes us shout to be heard..." (see 27mins 35 secs).

That on top of him answering a question about when people can start singing (44mins 10secs) where he describes about someone wanting to sing at a funeral and said "We are going to have to go on a bit longer where singing is off the menu".

https://www.facebook.com/welshgovernment/videos/329363271439962/

stormproductions

10-08-2020, 07:25 PM

Imagine

10-08-2020, 07:52 PM

I forgot to add, my personal view at this stage is that the Gov roadmap (for England at least, I've not checked if there are any plans for the rest of the UK let alone the rest of the world) show that "In November, our ambition is to scale back remaining social distancing measures, but this is contingent on... bla de bla", indicating that they realise the current situation is unsustainable and that for the sake of the economy and everyone's welfare, plus the fact that huge proportions of the population are already clearly unable to maintain social distancing that they plan to have us getting back towards the old normal before Father Christmas gets involved.

So presuming that this scaling back does actually happen in November but also guessing that it won't be the end of all SD, I reckon we're somewhere near 50/50 as to whether Christmas events will be able to go ahead but my current guess on next summer rises to 75/25 for being able to rock ahead reasonably normally. Bear in mind that I'm just some geezer on the internet who's not even got a crystal ball to stare into, so this could be complete rubbish.

- this now makes me envisage the little critters thriving and breeding like rabbits as soon as they hear a thumping bass line (remember what one of those is?!).

I get the whole reopening of the economy thing, and think eventually it'll be out of the government's hands (until such time as it possibly flares up again when they turn around and say "we told you so").

As for being back for Xmas - I'm not so sure. We're trying to plan the annual family Boxing Day get-together and at the moment aren't sure whether that's likely to happen (we all meet up at a house for dinner....several arms of the family - around 30 of us, eat, drink and make merry).

Don't forget, they were very quick to lock down for Eid....I doubt Xmas will be any different if needs be. And with the possibility of local lockdowns (there's around 20-30 places on the list at the moment), who's going to want to be trying to plan a big bash when the plug could be pulled the night before?

MY current guess remains at next March/April once the flu season's out of the way for the official loosening of the reins, or failing that possibly around May/June. I'm also hazarding a guess at the moment that it'll be restricted to outdoor stuff like marquees & tipis with the sides up to allow adequate ventilation.

I'll be more than happy if I'm proven wrong though.

Imagine

11-08-2020, 10:57 PM

DJ Jules

12-08-2020, 07:03 AM

My angle is for some of the discretionary grant money which hasn't been claimed to be redirected to those of us without rateable premises and the like. At the end of the day, if they'd at least assist with the storage and insurance costs so that I'm not having to find those every month out of my own pocket....I'd be a happy bunny.

Our local authority (South Glos) has broadened the criteria to include businesses run from domestic premises for a final round of grants (applications close today, decisions made at the end of the month) and I've applied. I'm not expecting to get anything out of it, purely because they ask for Feb-May 2019 and Feb-May 2020 bank statements as evidence of a drop in income and a) I had a bumper Feb and was still operating until mid-March and b) I only opened a business bank account in Feb 2020 so I think they have no chance of being able to unpick household income/expense from business to be able to make an informed decision. I have made the point that my application is less about the drop in income for Feb-May and more about the fact that we're likely to have to survive for another 6-9 months with no support and that the uncertainty is going to impact me for a lot longer as events of any scale are typically planned at least 6 months in advance.

I'm glad you got a positive response though. I'm not expecting our local copy/paste merchant to send me anything more than a letter toeing the party line.

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

14-08-2020, 04:50 PM

Are you taking bets? :D

Julian

He's had an automated reminder and a friendly nudge email from myself.

I don't really want to but the next stage is a warning e-mail and then it'll be a formal cancellation due to failure to maintain agreed balance payments.

I've been extremely fair with them over the past 2 years allowing a change of date even before covid and a couple of other things so to get mugged off now isn't happening.

ppentertainments

15-08-2020, 11:57 AM

rth_discos

15-08-2020, 01:31 PM

Did anyone catch when the next stage of easing lockdown will be announced. Still think we are a few announcements away, but normally they indicate when things will ease further.

Or will it be a case of 'we have allowed weddings and indoor entertainment now :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: off'

Personally, I think we're too close to schools reopening to see any further restrictions be relaxed.

My guess is they will want to see the impact of schools returning before any further relaxing.

I'm not confident that the R rate will remain below 1 once schools reopen.

DJ Jules

15-08-2020, 07:19 PM

Personally, I think we're too close to schools reopening to see any further restrictions be relaxed.

My guess is they will want to see the impact of schools returning before any further relaxing.

I'm not confident that the R rate will remain below 1 once schools reopen.

The next step was supposed to be 1st Oct. That was announced mid-July at the same time as the 1st August step and should include exhibitions, corporate events and other indoor activities restarting following the result of pilots that are happening now, along with larger numbers at weddings. But that was before the 1st Aug change was put back 2 weeks. I agree, I think they're going to wait until the 2nd or 3rd week of Sept when they start to get a feel as to how Schools have changed things and then make an announcement about how they're going to move forward (or possibly backwards).

If you've still got any bookings in for Sept, you might as well call them now.

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

16-08-2020, 10:36 AM

stormproductions

16-08-2020, 11:57 AM

Current wedding rules in England are a maximum of 30 people for the ceremony including officials, photographer etc (since some time in July), then 30 again for a sit down reception, still with full SD between different households (allowed from yesterday). No mention yet that I'm aware of regarding anything further than that, other than the general 'hoping to reduce SD in November'.

On specifics of where people stand regarding contracts I've no idea, I've never previously drawn up a contract with a customer and accepted the odd cancellation during the course of my career as collateral damage, but I've saved myself a shed load of extra admin and grief over the years.

DJ Jules

16-08-2020, 12:02 PM

Have I imagined it? I thought Boris came out a day or two ago and said receptions could go ahead in England from date X?

If so then job's a good 'un, you either get to go and do the gig or if they move, it's a straight forward cancellation.

Just waiting for Nicola Sturgeon to do her usual "let's see how this pans out then copy him a week or 2 later" and do the same up here.

As of yesterday, the changes planned for 1st Aug came into effect. Wedding receptions for up to 30 people (excluding venue staff, but including photographer, etc) can go ahead with seated meals only. Guests must be seated in tables/bubbles of up to 2 households. Tables should not mingle. Dance floor, dancing, shouting and singing is not allowed. Music and live performances are allowed at background levels only and performers must take care to be Covid secure (distanced or shielded from the audience). Garden parties (i.e. using a marquee on private grounds to get round restrictions) are not allowed.

I'm not 100% clear if that means that evening receptions are banned altogether. Some are interpreting that "sit down meal only" means that the reception should be done by 8pm or so, others are suggesting it's open to interpretation as long as the guidelines continue to be followed into the evening. Not sure if anyone else knows for sure what the answer is to that?

No further changes planned until Oct 1st.

So... technically we can work, but we can't provide quite what we were originally contracted to provide (and functions may be restricted to exclude our originally contracted hours). For me this is totally academic as my diary has already cleared until mid-Oct, but do you think this is a contractual cancellation or Covid, what's your view?

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

16-08-2020, 02:31 PM

So... technically we can work, but we can't provide quite what we were originally contracted to provide (and functions may be restricted to exclude our originally contracted hours). For me this is totally academic as my diary has already cleared until mid-Oct, but do you think this is a contractual cancellation or Covid, what's your view?

Julian

You said it yourself - technically we can work.

We're contracted literally to turn up and provide music on a certain date, time and venue. That's it (only half joking - it's why I hate seeing people say "we'll habe the dancefloor full all night etc...) Volume or ambience don't come into it as far as contract law is concerned.

Ergo, it's a cancellation though I'd probably try and compromise and offer to do the music gory the meal. At that point you can argue that you've offered a corona friendly solution that they may or may not wish to take you up on.

Excalibur

17-08-2020, 08:58 AM

You said it yourself - technically we can work.

We're contracted literally to turn up and provide music on a certain date, time and venue. That's it (only half joking - it's why I hate seeing people say "we'll habe the dancefloor full all night etc...) Volume or ambience don't come into it as far as contract law is concerned.

Ergo, it's a cancellation though I'd probably try and compromise and offer to do the music gory the meal. At that point you can argue that you've offered a corona friendly solution that they may or may not wish to take you up on.

This is the hair splitting scenario that some of us have been expecting for a long time.

BRIDE: Sorry, Mr DJ, now that we can only have a tiny wedding, with no dancefloor, no dancing, no flashing lights, at a barely audible level, we'd like the money back we've given you for the Grateful Dead's PA rig, and the Supernova sized light rig.

DJ: Sorry, but as I'm allowed to turn up with my Ipad, 3w Bluetooth speaker, and 3w battery powered imitation mirrorball, I'm fulfilling my part of the contract, and you ain't getting a penny discount.

Regular readers may have already spotted that an element of my customary whimsy has crept in there, even in these dour times. I can only apologise for that. :(:o Nevertheless, I can see versions of this playing out all over the place.

Do I have suggestions, or answers? :confused::confused::daft::shrug::fp:

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

17-08-2020, 06:43 PM

This is the hair splitting scenario that some of us have been expecting for a long time.

BRIDE: Sorry, Mr DJ, now that we can only have a tiny wedding, with no dancefloor, no dancing, no flashing lights, at a barely audible level, we'd like the money back we've given you for the Grateful Dead's PA rig, and the Supernova sized light rig.

DJ: Sorry, but as I'm allowed to turn up with my Ipad, 3w Bluetooth speaker, and 3w battery powered imitation mirrorball, I'm fulfilling my part of the contract, and you ain't getting a penny discount.

Regular readers may have already spotted that an element of my customary whimsy has crept in there, even in these dour times. I can only apologise for that. :(:o Nevertheless, I can see versions of this playing out all over the place.

Do I have suggestions, or answers? :confused::confused::daft::shrug::fp:

I've actually got pandemic covered in my t's and C's believe it or not.

My go to will be along the lines of, "unfortunately due to the current govt guidelines it is a cancellation on your behalf as per our contract. If you let me know what information your insurer requires to claim back money forfeited I'll provide it asap."

DJ Jules

18-08-2020, 07:27 AM

I guess this partly comes down to how you write your contracts and what you are contractually obliged to supply. My contract specifies a package and performance times - therefore if evenings are off the table it will take some variance of the contract to enable the services to be supplied in most cases. The package bit doesn't specify what is included beyond "disco, sound system, lights and music" so that bit is OK.

My go to will be along the lines of, "unfortunately due to the current govt guidelines it is a cancellation on your behalf as per our contract. "

I'm not disagreeing with your standpoint, but the sentence above is going to walk you straight into an argument with the customer. If it's due to current Govt guidelines, then you're talking about circumstances beyond the control of either party. If you're going to take the view that it's their decision and therefore your standard cancellation terms kick in, then I'd rethink that wording and make sure that it's clear that you are able to the service under whatever the current guidelines are.

In terms of your T's and C's, what do they actually say about pandemics?

As a side, I had confirmation yesterday from my venue that they're reading the guidelines in the same way as me and the Proms booked for early Sept cannot go ahead.

Julian

Excalibur

18-08-2020, 07:48 AM

ppentertainments

18-08-2020, 09:42 AM

Benny Smyth

18-08-2020, 09:49 AM

I do agree wholeheartedly with you, but would that not be like a travel company saying "Sorry you cannot go to the Bahamas, but we will give you a fortnight in Butlins instead" ?

I'd argue that's not quite comparable. Can the travel company offer the same level of service and experience for the Bahamas and Butlins? I'd dare say that Jim could get a lot closer between what was hoped and what can happen than your example there.

ppentertainments

18-08-2020, 10:30 AM

I'd argue that's not quite comparable. Can the travel company offer the same level of service and experience for the Bahamas and Butlins? I'd dare say that Jim could get a lot closer between what was hoped and what can happen than your example there.
It was tongue in cheek - but I can't see many being happy with alternative services.
I am just keeping fingers crossed things go the way they are with regards to postponements.

Oh, and I used to love Butlins holidays :D:D

DJ Jules

18-08-2020, 11:11 AM

Now I could be wrong here, but Julian, I think Jim is saying that as Govt guidelines allow him to turn up and make some noise ( quietly :Laugh: ) then he is happy to fulfill his part of the contract, as per my example. Thus, the client is cancelling, of their own volition, not by force majeure.

I suspect he was, but if I read it the other way, there's a good chance a client would too. It's just easier to avoid anything even semi-ambiguous at this point.

Oh, and I used to love Butlins holidays :D:D

Apparently social distancing is non-existent there at the moment... and the entertainment is :Censored:

;);)

Julian

ppentertainments

18-08-2020, 01:55 PM

I suspect he was, but if I read it the other way, there's a good chance a client would too. It's just easier to avoid anything even semi-ambiguous at this point.

Apparently social distancing is non-existent there at the moment... and the entertainment is :Censored:

;);)

Julian
Been looking at Xmas and New Year there, but the ££££ is just silly. Always fancied it, but never had the time off before which I think I might this year.

Imagine

02-09-2020, 11:30 PM

Ok....it took a bit of doing but I finally got a response from my local MP :o

I've emailed several times and only ever had a response from her Parliamentary Assistant. The last time I was very blunt and insisted that I hear from HER as opposed to a civil servant (cheeky and rude, but getting completely pee'd off with everything now)

Although one of the emails was under the guise of the #savedjentertainment letter (which let's be honest....is going nowhere), I've also taken the time to explain my own personal circumstances which aren't too dissimilar to a lot of others I know who have likewise fallen through every safety net put in place. I also made it very clear that I'm more than a little miffed that having paid into the system since the day I left school and never claimed a single penny in support, it's not been there when I actually need it.

My angle is for some of the discretionary grant money which hasn't been claimed to be redirected to those of us without rateable premises and the like. At the end of the day, if they'd at least assist with the storage and insurance costs so that I'm not having to find those every month out of my own pocket....I'd be a happy bunny.

The response was actually quite unexpected and positive. None of the copy and paste text everyone else seems to be getting. She's actually dealing with quite a few fellow constituents in the same position and appears to be fighting our corner. She's also passed on the SaveDJEntertainment letter to the appropriate department but not getting my hopes up there.

Fingers crossed....somebody's actually listening!

OK - my bad :(

FINALLY got a reply this afternoon about changing the discretionary grant in my area (yeah....a whole WEEK after applications were closed - how convenient!). Apparently my local council was oversubscribed and there's nothing left in the pot to support smaller businesses like me....I was actually expecting exactly this response!

Looks like the business is going to be costing me personally for a good while to come.

In other news - I've had three enquiries in the past two days...things are looking up! Shame i daren't even quote them until I know where the land lies for next year :( . I'm starting to adopt the attitude that I'm "fully booked" for 2021 at the moment until there's some sort of clear guidance that we're allowed to work again.

DJ Jules

03-09-2020, 06:05 AM

Apparently my local council was oversubscribed and there's nothing left in the pot to support smaller businesses like me....I was actually expecting exactly this response!

I applied for a grant from my local authority. Applications closed 17th Aug, final decisions were supposed to be made by 31st Aug and grants issued soon after, and now they're saying funds will be distributed at the end of Sept :confused::confused::confused:

In the meantime, I've heard literally nothing from them and the domain name used to host the application form has been dropped! I'm actually starting to wonder if I've just sent 6 months of my bank statements and a scan of my photo ID to a hackers...

Julian

Benny Smyth

03-09-2020, 10:15 AM

Looks like the business is going to be costing me personally for a good while to come.

In other news - I've had three enquiries in the past two days...things are looking up! Shame i daren't even quote them until I know where the land lies for next year :( . I'm starting to adopt the attitude that I'm "fully booked" for 2021 at the moment until there's some sort of clear guidance that we're allowed to work again.

Why not just quote for them and earn some deposits? Don't be ashamed for working and earning some money from it. Just make it clear in your contract/correspondence that if there are any postponements, the client has to work with you on a new date otherwise they will lose the deposit and/or fall foul of cancellation terms.

DJ Jules

03-09-2020, 11:53 AM

Why not just quote for them and earn some deposits? Don't be ashamed for working and earning some money from it. Just make it clear in your contract/correspondence that if there are any postponements, the client has to work with you on a new date otherwise they will lose the deposit and/or fall foul of cancellation terms.

I'm doing the same - Good wedding bookings are still out there for 12, 18, 24 and even 36 months out. If you're not careful you'll have a very quiet 2022 or lose the customers you want to work with :zip:

Julian

DeckstarDeluxe

03-09-2020, 03:37 PM

In other news - I've had three enquiries in the past two days...things are looking up! Shame i daren't even quote them until I know where the land lies for next year :( . I'm starting to adopt the attitude that I'm "fully booked" for 2021 at the moment until there's some sort of clear guidance that we're allowed to work again.

Ok I'll bite. You're saying the business is costing you money but you're not even going to quote for jobs next year? Why? If they get moved then you'll have a clause in your booking form/contract to state what happens etc? Not sure why on earth you wouldn't quote?

rth_discos

03-09-2020, 07:27 PM

New bookings are far easier to deal with than existing bookings.

Covid-19 is now a known entity.

Check out Air B'n'Bs cancellation terms for bookings made since 14th March. Their attitude is 'Coronavirus is a known pandemic now, and you're booking at your own risk. No refunds outside of their usual cancellation clauses if you need to cancel.

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/help/article/2823/does-the-extenuating-circumstances-policy-apply-to-my-reservation-during-the-covid19-pandemic

I'd suggest something along the lines that your performance may need to be adapted to meet any Coronavirus restrictions on the date of performance.

Any cancellation / postponement is a forfeit of the booking fee, and a new booking fee is required for the postponed date.

Excalibur

03-09-2020, 07:43 PM

Any cancellation / postponement is a forfeit of the booking fee, and a new booking fee is required for the postponed date.

Ouch! Not sure I'd make a booking for anything under those terms, and certain that I won't be adding this to my T&C's.

However: I've long since stopped taking deposits for 2020 putative bookings, and I'm not sure I'd insist on deposits for 2021 yet. Strange times. :daft:

Benny Smyth

03-09-2020, 08:59 PM

However: I've long since stopped taking deposits for 2020 putative bookings, and I'm not sure I'd insist on deposits for 2021 yet. Strange times. :daft:

You're sending out contracts and doing the admin work for no pay?

If you're going to volunteer your time, at least do something that will make a contribution to the community like working with your local youth offending service.

You're supposed to bend over backwards for your clients, not forwards.

DJ Jules

04-09-2020, 09:47 AM

Ouch! Not sure I'd make a booking for anything under those terms, and certain that I won't be adding this to my T&C's.

However: I've long since stopped taking deposits for 2020 putative bookings, and I'm not sure I'd insist on deposits for 2021 yet. Strange times. :daft:

Welcome to the new world. It's still no deposit, no booking in my view. However, I draw the line at not carrying deposits forward (where's the incentive for the customer to stick with you if you've just shafted them and they're going to have to pay again anyway?)

Julian

DeckstarDeluxe

04-09-2020, 01:54 PM

I'm still taking bookings the usual way, signed form with booking fee/deposit. No way would I consider blocking off staff/dates without any sort of commitment from clients.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

04-09-2020, 08:13 PM

Jesus wept lads - the whole point of a booking fee is twofold - give you a level of security for that date (or as I like to refer to it - income) and give a level of accountability to the client - they have absolutely NOTHING (literally actually) stopping them completely mugging you off due to covid, breaking up, finding a cheaper DJ, deciding to elope or whatever. In a business agreement it's essential that both sides had some form of leverage, with this you have none.

Why on earth, especially now, would you not be requiring this from clients?

I had someone get in touch the other day -

We're looking to move our date to next Summer can you show us your availability for June and early July? Oh perfect, we're 99% sure we'll book you for Tuesday the Xth, can you hold it for us until Friday as we'll need to check with the venue and our other suppliers.

Ummm no, you have secured the original date, I'm not holding ANYTHING else, even fairly unlikely mid week ones unless you're putting down another booking fee.

Imagine

06-09-2020, 01:04 AM

Ok I'll bite. You're saying the business is costing you money but you're not even going to quote for jobs next year? Why? If they get moved then you'll have a clause in your booking form/contract to state what happens etc? Not sure why on earth you wouldn't quote?

Sorry for the very late reply....been out (again) delivering online groceries until silly 'o' clock.

It's a mental health thing unfortunately. 2020 has been a nightmare for me. It was SUPPOSED to be THE year after going full time after a blimmin' savage redundancy last year. It was looking like I could actually make a go of this full time Wedding DJ thing. And then, as with all of us, the rug was pulled from under my feet. I had a full time wage lined up for this year (I was chuffed because confidence and self belief aren't my biggest strengths)...and it disappeared.

Soooo many things are in the way of me running as a full timer at the moment that it's unreal (as those who know me personally will attest). I really can't deal with the stress of booking in yet more weddings and having to deal with upset couples again

Personally, I'm not the hard nosed businessman that can risk my fragile reputation for the sake of a deposit. I KNOW we're entitled and allowed to keep them (provided they're justified)....but....

I can't see this COVID thing being done and dusted for a while yet, even though deaths are minimal now. People I see on a daily basis are genuinely SCARED (media hype, the truth...who knows....they're frightened of catching it though). And I can see restrictions such as lockdowns being in place for a long time to come. Let's be honest..what we do is going to be one of the very last things that's allowed again.

Yes, the next couple of years are going to be lean for me. I'm prepared for that and I'm more than willing to rebuild the business from scratch if that's what it takes to stay sane and safe. Thankfully I'm now only paying storage costs and insurance...I've done all I can to reduce the outgoings and it's going to be a good while before HMRC (who haven't supported me in any way, shape or form) see any profit from me.

I'm more than prepared to keep the business (or what's left of it) in hibernation until we're good to go again...if only for my own sanity.

Hope that makes some sort of sense...I'm absolutely shattered :(

DJ Jules

06-09-2020, 07:30 AM

I can't see this COVID thing being done and dusted for a while yet, even though deaths are minimal now. People I see on a daily basis are genuinely SCARED (media hype, the truth...who knows....they're frightened of catching it though). And I can see restrictions such as lockdowns being in place for a long time to come. Let's be honest..what we do is going to be one of the very last things that's allowed again.

Tell that to the guys queuing outside bars 3 nights a week : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54041805 :daft:

Yes, the next couple of years are going to be lean for me. I'm prepared for that and I'm more than willing to rebuild the business from scratch if that's what it takes to stay sane and safe.

Weddings are typically planned around 12 to 18 months in advance, especially if you're aiming at the top end of the market as you are. If you close your books now, you are guaranteeing that you'll be out of work for 1-2 years and you're making the job of rebuilding an inevitability, not a possibility, and making your life harder in the progress. Even with the view that you don't want to be messing about with rescheduling again, I would still be actively looking at leads and picking and choosing the ones I want and I think I can convert.

I'm more than prepared to keep the business (or what's left of it) in hibernation until we're good to go again...if only for my own sanity.

Ultimately though, you do what you need to do for your own health.

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

06-09-2020, 10:08 AM

Personally, I'm not the hard nosed businessman that can risk my fragile reputation for the sake of a deposit. I KNOW we're entitled and allowed to keep them (provided they're justified)....but....

:(

Each to their own but adhering to your ts and cs (which are there to protect both parties to the contract) isn't being hard-nosed and it's not about keeping the deposit, it's about keeping the agreement fair and protecting yourself from having the :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: ripped out of you.

Benny Smyth

06-09-2020, 11:00 AM

Each to their own but adhering to your ts and cs (which are there to protect both parties to the contract) isn't being hard-nosed and it's not about keeping the deposit, it's about keeping the agreement fair and protecting yourself from having the :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: ripped out of you.

A professional is not paid to work - a professional is paid so that they can work.

A small distinction, but very significant.

rth_discos

06-09-2020, 02:19 PM

Personally, I'm not the hard nosed businessman that can risk my fragile reputation for the sake of a deposit. I KNOW we're entitled and allowed to keep them (provided they're justified)....but....

I can't see this COVID thing being done and dusted for a while yet, even though deaths are minimal now. People I see on a daily basis are genuinely SCARED (media hype, the truth...who knows....they're frightened of catching it though). And I can see restrictions such as lockdowns being in place for a long time to come. Let's be honest..what we do is going to be one of the very last things that's allowed again.

Yes, the next couple of years are going to be lean for me. I'm prepared for that and I'm more than willing to rebuild the business from scratch if that's what it takes to stay sane and safe. Thankfully I'm now only paying storage costs and insurance...I've done all I can to reduce the outgoings and it's going to be a good while before HMRC (who haven't supported me in any way, shape or form) see any profit from me.

I'm more than prepared to keep the business (or what's left of it) in hibernation until we're good to go again...if only for my own sanity.

As an alternative, if you're turning away business, why not offer the following:

A Coronavirus deposit guarantee

Make your booking now, and if for any reason you need to postpone the wedding, we'll move it free of charge, or refund the deposit in full.

All you need to do is set up a spare account somewhere to stick these deposits leave them there. Then there's no hassle if they need it back.

You can put some T&Cs in, such as 'change or cancel for free up until 4 weeks before the wedding'.

That way you can start confidently taking deposits, and if they decide to cancel, it doesn't matter because the alternative was that you weren't going to take the booking anyway...

DeckstarDeluxe

07-09-2020, 01:12 PM

Soooo many things are in the way of me running as a full timer at the moment that it's unreal (as those who know me personally will attest). I really can't deal with the stress of booking in yet more weddings and having to deal with upset couples again

Turning away couples will do that!

Imagine

07-09-2020, 11:56 PM

Turning away couples will do that!

Yes, it will....but in my brain cell, until there's some sort of clarification as to WHEN we're likely to be able to work again, it's just easier. It's :Censored: complicated to even try to explain my view on things at the moment.

Seeing the infection rates going up again, we're fairly unlikely to be working this side of Christmas and as an educated guess (because let's face it, that's all we've got at the moment), certainly not until the winter Flu season is done and dusted. I'm sceptical about my March, April and May 2021 weddings going ahead as planned at the moment. All of the blame for the rise in infections is being pointed at things like house parties and illegal social gatherings....and Oh Boy do the media like to make a thing of the fact that a DJ was present!

I'm one of the lucky ones at the moment. I've found a job, I'm surviving, and can keep paying the bills to keep the disco in hibernation for a LONG time if needs be. It's not what I want to do, I'm permanently shattered trying to do a full time job AND balance what I need to do on the admin side of running the business including the PR/Social etc. just to keep my name out there. It's going to be a very long time before HMRC see a tax return from the business which shows a profit!

As for the deposits thing, our dear friend Peter might be on a winner (as much as I HATE to agree on this one because deposits are something I've ALWAYS insisted on from day 1). Yesterday's further interference from the CMA has in effect made ALL deposits refundable to a degree (talk about an organisation not fit for purpose!). OK, they're only "opinions" from a regulator, but sooner or later someone's going to end up before the beak trying to justify why the deposit/booking fee or whatever you want to call it is non-refundable and my guess is that the judge will call on the "opinions" of the CMA and find in the customer's favour.

Sorry - the reply might not make total sense - I'm very, VERY tired at the moment and still trying to process the latest guidance. Not going to be much longer before I have no choice but to turn in for another restless night's sleep.

ppentertainments

08-09-2020, 08:37 AM

Must admit, tempting though it is to spend it, all my deposits and payments I receive are being kept in a seperate bank account 'just in case'. I honestly can't see any/many refunds needing to be made, but you never know.

I am currently running my business how I did before I went full-time. I have a full time job now, and the year before I went full time DJ I didn't touch any of my wages for a year before making the jump to prove I could do it. That is what I am currently doing now BUT the difference is I am living off my employment and not spending the DJ wages.

Problem I have is I am now fully booked for 2021 BUT how many of them will go ahead ? I have already had a couple of cancellations due to relationships breaking down never mind worries about this virus.

DeckstarDeluxe

08-09-2020, 02:11 PM

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

08-09-2020, 04:19 PM

Can't deal with ifs, buts or maybes. Get it booked in and then move again if required. Weddings have to come back at some point, they'll not impose restrictions or financially support wedding businesses going forward so something has to give.

This. I've booked a couple of weddings for 2021 in the past week or so.

Not sure if you seen it or not but there was a point made in that CMA statement about people booking / moving weddings between March and September doing it with an understanding that it might be affected given the situation. To me, that's not changed significantly - if you've moved your date to 2021 or are booking in 2021, much like a holiday - you're taking a gamble that it'll go ahead / be the full bhoona.

ppentertainments

08-09-2020, 06:27 PM

Not sure if you seen it or not but there was a point made in that CMA statement about people booking / moving weddings between March and September doing it with an understanding that it might be affected given the situation. To me, that's not changed significantly - if you've moved your date to 2021 or are booking in 2021, much like a holiday - you're taking a gamble that it'll go ahead / be the full bhoona.
One of the worst statements to have been released (the latest CMS one) - contrary to belief and panic, it does NOT say anyone needing to cancel due to Covid can get a full refund including deposits. It isn't exactly supporting businesses, but also could make things difficult for couples if you read the whole statement - especially how far ahead this covers.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

08-09-2020, 06:50 PM

One of the worst statements to have been released (the latest CMS one) - contrary to belief and panic, it does NOT say anyone needing to cancel due to Covid can get a full refund including deposits. It isn't exactly supporting businesses, but also could make things difficult for couples if you read the whole statement - especially how far ahead this covers.

As far as I'm concerned nothing has changed at my end from the statement.

Unless you're marrying woth200+ people and I need to hire sound, you're getting the same service wether you have 10 guests or 150 from me.

Caterers, cake makers, even kilt hires can be scaled down, we can't really so the # of people there, contractually, is a moot point to me - I'm contracted to play music at venue x at times y for client z. The vibe being affected due to limited numbers isn't anything you can sensibly seek legal recourse for, unless you make claims like the dancefloor will be rammed all night...:daft:

rth_discos

09-09-2020, 07:58 AM

unless you make claims like the dancefloor will be rammed all night...:daft:

If that were the case there would be many DJs who would have been making multiple refunds pre-Covid based on that claim!

DJ Jules

09-09-2020, 11:18 AM

Not sure if you seen it or not but there was a point made in that CMA statement about people booking / moving weddings between March and September doing it with an understanding that it might be affected given the situation. To me, that's not changed significantly - if you've moved your date to 2021 or are booking in 2021, much like a holiday - you're taking a gamble that it'll go ahead / be the full bhoona.

I find this really interesting and I bet a lot of couples will have missed the implications. Unfortunately (unless I missed it) the CMA didn't really elaborate on what this means for contracts. Are they basically saying that if you booked a wedding during the Mar/Apr period for a date that was unlikely to go ahead and it's now cancelled or needs to be rescheduled, then you should expect some losses?

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

09-09-2020, 03:54 PM

I find this really interesting and I bet a lot of couples will have missed the implications. Unfortunately (unless I missed it) the CMA didn't really elaborate on what this means for contracts. Are they basically saying that if you booked a wedding during the Mar/Apr period for a date that was unlikely to go ahead and it's now cancelled or needs to be rescheduled, then you should expect some losses?

March to September actually which leads on to my point that people rescheduling now for the first part of2021 at least are doing so knowing there's a good chance covid will impact their big day.

DJ Jules

09-09-2020, 06:34 PM

March to September actually which leads on to my point that people rescheduling now for the first part of2021 at least are doing so knowing there's a good chance covid will impact their big day.

I was thinking about how this changes the picture for us. Doesn't it work both ways? If we take bookings or allow couples to reschedule, aren't we also taking them in full knowledge that they may not happen?

Julian

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

10-09-2020, 01:30 PM

I was thinking about how this changes the picture for us. Doesn't it work both ways? If we take bookings or allow couples to reschedule, aren't we also taking them in full knowledge that they may not happen?

Julian

That would ultimately be up to a judge to decide. The CMA (despite what numerous facebook bride legal experts will assert) is purely setting out guidance - if push came to shove, it would go to civil court and at that point it would be down to a judge to decide.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

10-09-2020, 02:09 PM

Ah well that's the last of my 2020 couples cancelled today.

If nothing else, next years tax return will be a doddle.

rth_discos

10-09-2020, 03:18 PM

Ah well that's the last of my 2020 couples cancelled today.

If nothing else, next years tax return will be a doddle.

Mine will be about 5% quicker...

The income is the easy bit. It's the expenses that is always the slow bit.

At least the number at the end will be lower!

ppentertainments

11-09-2020, 11:07 AM

July 2021 wedding postponed yesterday. Talking to them I agree why they have done it.

January 2021 now empty (no that there was much as it is normally last minute) and think will be making a good start on Feb/March 2021 over the next few weeks.

DeckstarDeluxe

14-09-2020, 11:09 AM

ppentertainments

14-09-2020, 02:01 PM

Well first time in ten years I'm going to have to take orders off another people........

Going back to retail to try and keep us going. The grants will see me last until the point I was post lockdown in about a month and then we're just losing money hand over fist afterwards with the unit, van lease etc...

Fingers crossed they'll do something to help our sector. The entire year is written off at this point, even if they lift restrictions tomorrow then it won't get people booking Q4 weddings or Christmas functions as there is no consumer confidence or funds now.

Badger your local MPs, mine is as about as useful as a Cortex DJ controller.........
I went back to retail at the beginning, then it hit me just how hard work it is, somehow I forgot lol.

Now I am working from home which suits my energy levels - plus I can work on all those postponements too (up to July 2021 now).

DeckstarDeluxe

14-09-2020, 02:30 PM

I went back to retail at the beginning, then it hit me just how hard work it is, somehow I forgot lol.

Now I am working from home which suits my energy levels - plus I can work on all those postponements too (up to July 2021 now).

Yeah first proper day tomorrow, not looking forward to it.

What is it you're doing from home?

Excalibur

14-09-2020, 05:47 PM

Well first time in ten years I'm going to have to take orders off another people........

Going back to retail to try and keep us going. The grants will see me last until the point I was post lockdown in about a month and then we're just losing money hand over fist afterwards with the unit, van lease etc...

Fingers crossed they'll do something to help our sector. The entire year is written off at this point, even if they lift restrictions tomorrow then it won't get people booking Q4 weddings or Christmas functions as there is no consumer confidence or funds now.

Badger your local MPs, mine is as about as useful as a Cortex DJ controller.........

Neil's plight makes me fearful for the future. :( When well established traders like Neil and Chris, as well some notable others, are struggling, it does not bode well for the industry. I fear that by the time the shackles are removed, many of us will have left the business. I fear that there will be rich pickings for Sid, who regarded the income from DJ'ing as pocket money. I also think he will be prepared to " interpret the rules" in a very " relaxed " way. :(

Yours, Cassandra. :(

ppentertainments

14-09-2020, 07:50 PM

Yeah first proper day tomorrow, not looking forward to it.

What is it you're doing from home?
Customer services - call centre bimbo now :D:D

Really takes some getting used too having to work for someone again. Also not too keen on working 5 days a week haha

Imagine

14-09-2020, 08:00 PM

Really takes some getting used too having to work for someone again. Also not too keen on working 5 days a week haha

Tell me about it. I'm six months in and still can't get used to it.
Give me a 5 day week any day. I'm normally on a 6 day rotation, and can start/end any time between 6am and 11pm (and there's no pattern to it either....it's to do with when customers want their stuff delivered so varies from day to day).

I'm missing Karen, Baby Shark, Bridezilla and drunken bridesmaids so much now it hurts :o

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

14-09-2020, 08:19 PM

Imagine

14-09-2020, 11:20 PM

Even before this the idea of going full time never appealed. It would have given me more time but I like having something to get out of bed for and I hate the idea of the DJing turning into a job as opposed to something I do for fun. That's pretty much why I'm resigned to jacking it in the end of tax year 2021-22.

Full time for me was brilliant Jim for the 11 months that I pulled it off.....it was the perfect work/life balance. She worked, I lived :)

In all seriousness as the others that were/are full time unemployed DJs will attest, you work your day around what needs to be done (admin/marketing/jobs around the house). There was always a reason to get out of bed in the morning, and it ALWAYS pointed to earning money for me and not shareholders, stakeholders and managers. It's not actually a bad lifestyle considering in my current position I have to toil for FIVE WEEKS to earn the same gross amount as a decent paying all day wedding.....go figure! In normal times, an evening reception is worth 1.5 weeks of work at the moment!

It's actually opened my eyes just a little bit on how hard customers have to save to afford what I normally do!

In the days before lockdown, I earned a salary and still had time to look after my grandson, see my family, decorate, mow the lawns, do the allotment.....
Now, I work for "the man" and don't have the chance to do ANY of the above much more. Give me full time self employed any day of the week....the stress more than pays for the fringe benefits!

That being said, I'm very glad I'm on a council contract.

Hmmmm....and Councils have how many decisions to make on budgets?

Trust me, there's only ONE very safe job at the moment....and I'm in it! Retail or E-commerce (sadly....especially online and delivery) are pretty much the only growth industries whilst COVID is a thing and Mr & Mrs Average are hiding away from catching it. Amazon and supermarkets are pretty much jobs for life at the moment....and it's biimmin' hard work!

DJColsie

15-09-2020, 11:49 AM

I can draw a significant lump sum from my pension in Dec 21.

I thought I would carry on DJing for the love of it. Now I am beginning to think I may have done my last gig! 😫

- - - Updated - - -

I can draw a significant lump sum from my pension in Dec 21.

I thought I would carry on DJing for the love of it. Now I am beginning to think I may have done my last gig! 😫

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

15-09-2020, 12:00 PM

Hmmmm....and Councils have how many decisions to make on budgets?

Trust me, there's only ONE very safe job at the moment....and I'm in it! Retail or E-commerce (sadly....especially online and delivery) are pretty much the only growth industries whilst COVID is a thing and Mr & Mrs Average are hiding away from catching it. Amazon and supermarkets are pretty much jobs for life at the moment....and it's biimmin' hard work!

I teach a fairly specialist type of ASN pupil. I'd be willing to bet they'd even cut Maths and English jobs before mine and they're not going to do that either.

ppentertainments

15-09-2020, 01:36 PM

Got to say, being a full-time DJ was something I loved doing, even managed to build my business up so if I didn't want to I didn't actually have to work.

The time off I got was unbelievable and something I really miss now. I have had good jobs in the past but nothing compared to working for myself full time. No regrets at all, just hope someday I can get back to it as this 5 day a week malarkey is no good at all - certainly could not work full time AND DJ again, not sure how I managed it before haha.

rth_discos

15-09-2020, 02:02 PM

Hmmmm....and Councils have how many decisions to make on budgets?

The good news is that councils have certain statutory services they have to provide. Some of those services have a shortage of staff at the moment, and it's amazing just how much people can command for certain roles, despite whatever 'austerity measures' may be in place.

mattydj50

15-09-2020, 04:05 PM

I can draw a significant lump sum from my pension in Dec 21.

I thought I would carry on DJing for the love of it. Now I am beginning to think I may have done my last gig! 

I did that around 18 months ago but I had also factored in the DJ earnings to take me up to normal pension age when I would be mortgage free and debt (thanks to the ex missus) free and able to manage on a smaller income. Unfortunately of course, the DJ earnings went from '000s to 0 in the blink of an eyelid forcing a major re-evaluation of my (lack of) wealth.

rth_discos

15-09-2020, 09:14 PM

It always helps when there's someone in a worse position...

So whilst having a load of DJ kit right now isn't ideal, imagine trying to sell 18 cruise ships right now.

Me thinks it's not the ideal time to be trying to sell!

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article245746700.html

Pe7e

16-09-2020, 01:12 AM

Me thinks it's not the ideal time to be trying to sell!

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article245746700.html

You are 100% correct on that, I decided to enter a trial retirement earlier in March, I liked it and decided it was the way forward for me. I subsequently listed several items on ebay to 'test the water' NOT a single item sold, I relisted them with a 'Best Offer' option and only receive a few derisory offers that were rejected. Fortunately, I'm not desperate to sell (for a pittance) but that said, there doesn't appear to be a way forward, or information of the length of time it may take until the market returns to what could be considered relatively normal. Sitting at home doing nothing is totally alien to me, but I can't see a clear way forward at the moment. I'm very fortunate in the fact I have independant income, savings, investments and virtually zero outgoings, (no mortgage, rent, or loan repayments etc) Thankfully I'm financially secure, BUT the boredom and the isolation is driving me towards insanity.

DeckstarDeluxe

17-09-2020, 04:14 AM

Customer services - call centre bimbo now :D:D

Really takes some getting used too having to work for someone again. Also not too keen on working 5 days a week haha

Good luck with it, I'm actually rather enjoying working again. Only three days in though mind haha.

ppentertainments

17-09-2020, 08:03 AM

Good luck with it, I'm actually rather enjoying working again. Only three days in though mind haha.

Must admit something is to be said for turning up to work, going home, then getting paid at the end of the week. If my £££ matched my self employed income I would be quite settled

Imagine

17-09-2020, 08:31 AM

Must admit something is to be said for turning up to work, going home, then getting paid at the end of the week. If my £££ matched my self employed income I would be quite settled

Couldn't agree more actually (especially if like me you don't even have to THINK about work before you get there and after you clock off).

If I'm on a late shift, the hours are similar to an evening reception anyway (the earlies are another story entirely.....really don't like having to get up at 0430 :o ).
Plus with my position, I'm pretty much my own boss from the time I leave the loading bay to the time I return. Just a shame it doesn't pay about 4x more than it does otherwise I'd be set for life ;)

ppentertainments

17-09-2020, 01:25 PM

Couldn't agree more actually (especially if like me you don't even have to THINK about work before you get there and after you clock off).
I work from home so even the commute to and from work is something I don't even have to think about :D:D

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

17-09-2020, 01:39 PM

I work from home so even the commute to and from work is something I don't even have to think about :D:D

Thanks to a little part promotion I've got at work, I can WFH certain days.

I'm at home today, the sun is shinning, Mrs JBJ has just fed me, there's beer in the fridge, the famous Glasgow Rangers are playing in Europe at 4pm and I've just finished all of the work I had in front of me.

And I have to go in to the school for a collegiate meeting 4 to 5 :rolleyes: :D

mattydj50

17-09-2020, 10:01 PM

I work from home so even the commute to and from work is something I don't even have to think about :D:D

Me too. Normally, a 5 mile trip to the office could take anything up to 45 minutes. Now I can walk to work, coffee in hand and be logging on 10 minutes after rolling out of bed!

ppentertainments

18-09-2020, 11:39 AM

Me too. Normally, a 5 mile trip to the office could take anything up to 45 minutes. Now I can walk to work, coffee in hand and be logging on 10 minutes after rolling out of bed!
I love that part of having a job at the moment I must admit. Last filled my van up with diesel what seems like years ago haha.
If only the £££ was there I would be so content

Sapphire Disco

10-11-2020, 01:39 PM

I think there will be a vaccine by early next year and by summer 2021 we'll be back to normal.

POST 102
And I was mocked, well maybe we won't fully back to normal by the summer but there will be light at the end of the tunnel :)

Excalibur

10-11-2020, 07:33 PM

POST 102
And I was mocked, well maybe we won't fully back to normal by the summer but there will be light at the end of the tunnel :)

I wouldn't say mocked, I merely was sceptical of the timescale. You were correct in that respect, and yes indeed there is light at the end of the tunnel. However, as everything else has dragged so much, I don't foresee a return to normal being rapid or imminent. I'd say late summer for being able to work for say a hundred people. Hope I'm wrong.

ppentertainments

11-11-2020, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't say mocked, I merely was sceptical of the timescale. You were correct in that respect, and yes indeed there is light at the end of the tunnel. However, as everything else has dragged so much, I don't foresee a return to normal being rapid or imminent. I'd say late summer for being able to work for say a hundred people. Hope I'm wrong.
My money is on 50 people for beginning July onwards with any increase a LONG time away. Can't help but think of Scotlands Tier 0 still only allowing 50 people

Pe7e

11-11-2020, 07:45 PM

Copied from the BBC website: The UK’s independent advisory committee on immunisation has drafted a provisional priority list. At the top are elderly people living in care homes, along with the staff who look after them.
Next are people aged 80 and over, along with other health and social care workers. People over 65 or with underlying health conditions will then follow.
The ranking then moves down the age brackets to eventually include everyone over the age of 50 as more stock becomes available. Experts are unsure how long immunity might last against the virus – they suspect it will wane over months, meaning a Covid vaccine could become an annual event, a bit like the flu shot.

There seem to be many potential problems in the pipeline especially for the under 50s in the availability/distribution of the vaccine when/if it is approved. Weddings could well be adversely affected since most are generally in the domain of. the younger groups. It's not going to be back to normal by the summer of 2021 by any stretch of the imagination, I wouldn't get too excited just yet, but I hope I'm just being an old pessimist.

Imagine

11-11-2020, 07:59 PM

My money is on 50 people for beginning July onwards with any increase a LONG time away. Can't help but think of Scotlands Tier 0 still only allowing 50 people

I'd say late summer for being able to work for say a hundred people.

I really wish I shared your optimism gentlemen.

The vaccine(s) are good news (oh boy did I cheer when they made the announcement....even more so when I realised that by the time they get to my age group I'll qualify to get it). BUT, it's apparently not going to be available to the under 50s. How many weddings do we do for the over 50s?

Weddings could well be adversely affected since most are generally in the domain of. the younger groups. It's not going to be back to normal by the summer of 2021 by any stretch of the imagination, I wouldn't get too excited just yet, but I hope I'm just being an old pessimist.

:agree:

Sadly you are not alone in your pessimism. It's going to take time to get the vaccine approved if it's safe to use, it's going to take time to vaccinate however million people are entitled to it, it's going to take time to see if the immunity lasts and the spread stops.

I'm not expecting big things for 2021 if I'm honest :(

Benny Smyth

12-11-2020, 11:45 AM

It's going to take time to get the vaccine approved if it's safe to use, it's going to take time to vaccinate however million people are entitled to it, it's going to take time to see if the immunity lasts and the spread stops.

There are plans for clinics to be open 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to deliver the vaccines. There was a big hoo-ha about it and I'm sure that feat would be impressive were it not for the fact that my local Morrison's is open for 17 hours today and Primark is planning on being open 24 hours a day in the run up to Christmas. Still, I'm sure that 12 hours a day is more than enough to help tackle the biggest disruption to the human race in recent memory...

I want to optimistic, I really do but I can't bring myself to do it. I still think that the numbers will go up to 50 and they will stay there for a while. Suppliers and clients are going to have to accept that.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

12-11-2020, 12:58 PM

I just had someone book a full day shot for June 2022 which is good though it does mean my ":Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: this, I'm jacking it in after tax year 2020-21" plan is well and truly out of the window.

ppentertainments

12-11-2020, 09:59 PM

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

12-11-2020, 10:31 PM

You could say no ???

I could but money talks. Moving forward I'd be very happy doing 10-20 of these kind of bookings per year at these rates.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

15-11-2020, 01:08 PM

There's a new one:

Our venue has asked us to move date so why should we lose our deposit with you if you can't do the new one?

Because my t's and c's cover government guidelines, not venue agendas, chase them up for the money.

DJ Jules

15-11-2020, 03:17 PM

Our venue has asked us to move date so why should we lose our deposit with you if you can't do the new one?

Because my t's and c's cover government guidelines, not venue agendas, chase them up for the money.

So why did the venue ask them to move their date? :confused:

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

15-11-2020, 04:23 PM

So why did the venue ask them to move their date? :confused:

I'm assuming so they can provide a bigger package for more guests...

ppentertainments

16-11-2020, 09:59 AM

Still can't help to be amazed at how many DJs are insisting we have to refund and contracts are frustrated.
Are we the only industry whos main aim is to put ourselves out of business ?

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

16-11-2020, 10:31 AM

Still can't help to be amazed at how many DJs are insisting we have to refund and contracts are frustrated.
Are we the only industry whos main aim is to put ourselves out of business ?

Was that aimed at me?

I've been saying from day 1 we should be watching our own backs and I have been. I had 3 people over the weekend with weddings at the back end of next year enquire about where they stand if they had to move and all were told it would be a cancellation as per our t's and c's.

I'm refunding in situations where it's simply not going to happen - 1st week of January, everyone travelling here from NZ, not happening, but people moving things of their own accord or because anyone other than the government have had them change their plans, no happening.

rth_discos

16-11-2020, 11:42 AM

Was that aimed at me?

I've been saying from day 1 we should be watching our own backs and I have been. I had 3 people over the weekend with weddings at the back end of next year enquire about where they stand if they had to move and all were told it would be a cancellation as per our t's and c's.

I'm refunding in situations where it's simply not going to happen - 1st week of January, everyone travelling here from NZ, not happening, but people moving things of their own accord or because anyone other than the government have had them change their plans, no happening.

Same here. I have a wedding in December for this year still sat there. As things stand, I can't provide an evening disco. I'm happy to refund (I've also offered a smaller package for some background music during their meal if they wish). They've decided to wait until nearer the time to decide exactly what to do.

Anything booked in for next year is a cancellation subject to T&Cs.

ppentertainments

16-11-2020, 06:29 PM

Was that aimed at me?

I've been saying from day 1 we should be watching our own backs and I have been. I had 3 people over the weekend with weddings at the back end of next year enquire about where they stand if they had to move and all were told it would be a cancellation as per our t's and c's.

I'm refunding in situations where it's simply not going to happen - 1st week of January, everyone travelling here from NZ, not happening, but people moving things of their own accord or because anyone other than the government have had them change their plans, no happening.
No, the exact opposite, I wish people would realise they were a business. The amount of people claiming we should be refunding is unbelievable.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

16-11-2020, 06:43 PM

No, the exact opposite, I wish people would realise they were a business. The amount of people claiming we should be refunding is unbelievable.

I'm sick of hearing "you're the only supplier that........" Sheila that's doing the hair and nails can run her business anyway she sees fit, I'll run mine as I do.

Benny Smyth

17-11-2020, 11:35 AM

I'm sick of hearing "you're the only supplier that........" Sheila that's doing the hair and nails can run her business anyway she sees fit, I'll run mine as I do.

I've caught out a couple of brides doing that, usually with the words "I'm currently having a pint with your photography and he informs me otherwise."

Retrodisco

19-11-2020, 10:58 AM

I've had an demand from a bride for a refund, telling me the venue had refunded in full and everyone else, this came as I was literally reading an email from the venue telling me they were holding the couple to T&Cs and there was zero refund at all.

rth_discos

19-11-2020, 11:39 AM

Just moving this to looking ahead to 2021 and beyond.

At *some point* we'll be able to return to work.

How many of those who used to work full time as a DJ will return to it full time?

Once the vaccine has been distributed enough, it will bring down infection rates and deaths to a level that will become acceptable (ie, like the flu is at an acceptable rate).

I'm guessing most, if not all, now have an alternative income stream.

Do you plan to retain that income stream when you're able to return back to DJ'ing?

My fear is that the vaccine, whilst looking promising, doesn't have any guarantees. We don't know how long it will be effective for. So it would be terrible to go back to full time DJ work, only for 12 months later the country to end back where we were. I think that's only a slim chance, but one worth considering.

Or would it even be out of choice to continue working elsewhere and just DJ more 'part time' and be more picky over which events you perform at?

Imagine

19-11-2020, 12:44 PM

Just moving this to looking ahead to 2021 and beyond.

How many of those who used to work full time as a DJ will return to it full time?

Unlikely from this end. Having lived the dream for 11 short months and then seeing everything I'd worked for pulled out from under me with absolutely no backup from UKGOV, I'm not willing to take that risk again.

I'm guessing most, if not all, now have an alternative income stream.

Do you plan to retain that income stream when you're able to return back to DJ'ing?

I really don't think I have much choice in that one.

It's not the most glamorous or highly paid of jobs, but....it's a steady income. There will always be a pay cheque at the end of every four weeks and the disco will become the holiday and nice things fund. And do you know what? There's no stress. I don't even have to think about work outside of work.

Or would it even be out of choice to continue working elsewhere and just DJ more 'part time' and be more picky over which events you perform at?

That's EXACTLY where I'm heading. No more taking the potentially poorer gigs just because I need to eat.
If I'm honest (and this obviously depends on what we come back to as far as any sort of "normal" is concerned), I'm likely to downsize my offerings and equipment once it's got a saleable value again and probably knock the all day/afternoon weddings on the head concentrating instead on just the evening stuff.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

19-11-2020, 03:42 PM

That's EXACTLY where I'm heading. No more taking the potentially poorer gigs just because I need to eat.
If I'm honest (and this obviously depends on what we come back to as far as any sort of "normal" is concerned), I'm likely to downsize my offerings and equipment once it's got a saleable value again and probably knock the all day/afternoon weddings on the head concentrating instead on just the evening stuff.

That's pretty much where I've been at for years - it's liberating not to feel the need to do any gig going. I only ever took on jobs I didn't fancy to help out friends.

Gear wise, I've got a policy that if it doesn't make me quicker, lighter or richer, I don't buy it so my rig has always been on the minimal side - it fits under my stairs and in my C3 and in all the years doing this, I've only ever had to hire outside sound once, and I probably didn't need to at that.

Following a chat with a pal, I put my evening only price up in January to near 4 figures and I've stuck with it with new couples coming in. It does mean my evening and full day prices are closer so there may be more people going for full day shots but I can live with that since there'll be less gigs overall.

Imagine

19-11-2020, 11:54 PM

That's pretty much where I've been at for years - it's liberating not to feel the need to do any gig going. I only ever took on jobs I didn't fancy to help out friends.

I hated being part time - it felt almost like being a weekend warrior in my book and I was well and truly ready for the full time fully being my own boss when the time came in April 2019.

And then in 2019 the dear lady wife had two out of the blue (as in never had them before) epileptic seizures which put the kybosh on that season (wasn't comfortable going out for hours on end and leaving her alone...a confidence thing on both mine and her side).

2020 was to the THE year (I had the bookings to prove it), and well....we all know what became of that.

I've loved the liberation of being my own boss, but I can't see what we do being viable in that way anymore for a long time to come. Even with vaccines, there's going to be that element of doubt for a while as to whether it's going to come back and whether we go through lockdowns/bans on gatherings again which is going to put a lot of people off of making major commitments such as the types of weddings I tend to do.

I'm lucky with my job at JS in that they're flexible with the working hours. I can change my availability/contract hours if needs be to fit in around the DJing side of things when the time comes and they know that's what's going to ultimately happen. I've been upfront with my bosses from day one - they know the disco is going to be a "thing" when it's allowed to go out again.

It's not the best paying job in the world, it's damned hard work at times (especially now it's getting cold and damp at night)....but....it does actually pay the bills. The disco when/if it comes back will be bonus money and I fully intend to cherry pick the best gigs at MY prices. If they don't like my prices, I don't do the gig and I'm not going to lose sleep over whether I'm going to pay the bills that month.

Gear wise, I've got a policy that if it doesn't make me quicker, lighter or richer, I don't buy it so my rig has always been on the minimal side

Hands up, I was always a bit of a gear junkie. I've got kit in my storage unit that hasn't seen the light of day since I can remember which will eventually be sold off/disposed of. I have three main rigs which go out on a regular basis (or used to) and can probably reduce my storage by at least a half by being brutal and getting rid of the stuff that just isn't used instead of keeping it "just in case". It's just a case of waiting this thing out until it has a resale value again.

In fact, the only purchase I have planned when we're eventually allowed back on the road is a Denon Prime 4. It won't make me any more money, but it's one less laptop to setup

rth_discos

20-11-2020, 08:26 AM

That's EXACTLY where I'm heading. No more taking the potentially poorer gigs just because I need to eat.
If I'm honest (and this obviously depends on what we come back to as far as any sort of "normal" is concerned), I'm likely to downsize my offerings and equipment once it's got a saleable value again and probably knock the all day/afternoon weddings on the head concentrating instead on just the evening stuff.

If there's one thing I'm happy with, it's that I have one rig. It's the rig that goes with me everywhere. There are no options or 'bigger or smaller', it's just the rig.

The main reason I like is that I load the same kit everytime - making it near on impossible to forget anything.

Plus, everytime I work, everything goes with me. Nothing is sat in the unit not being used.

In addition to the evening rig, a pair of Maui 5 speakers and a small rack makes up my daytime offering.

I'd still recommend looking at offering the all day solution - I find that I can near on double my revenue without taking up that many extra hours (even just doing an evening only gig took out the whole of a Saturday in reality). I just simplified it more recently and removed much of the bells and whistles - I found most couples weren't even wanting Pearls of Wisdom - just someone to be there to do the introductions properly and in a relaxed and friendly way, and keep things on track.

Excalibur

20-11-2020, 03:51 PM

If there's one thing I'm happy with, it's that I have one rig. It's the rig that goes with me everywhere. There are no options or 'bigger or smaller', it's just the rig.

There are so many points I wish to reply to above, but I will just reply to Gavin for the time being. The word that springs unstoppably to mind after a post like that is:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrggghhhhhhhhhhhh hhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Is every gig the same? Do you only work in one venue? Does your rig contain equipment for every eventuality known to DJ-kind? :confused:

OK, I'm laying it on a bit thick for effect here, and I'm probably going to cut the ground from under my feet shortly, but my gigs over the years have ranged from two par cans and a tiny speaker in the conservatory of a house, to three hundred young farmers in a venue which took about every light and speaker I owned at the time. Ain't no "one-size-fits-all" for me mate. :Naughty:

However-I foresee that for a long time to come, I shall be going out with a rig something like a Powerbar and two Maui 11s. We won't need a lot more than that for quite a while, I fear. :(:(:(

rth_discos

20-11-2020, 08:11 PM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrggghhhhhhhhhhhh hhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Is every gig the same? Do you only work in one venue? Does your rig contain equipment for every eventuality known to DJ-kind? :confused:

OK, I'm laying it on a bit thick for effect here, and I'm probably going to cut the ground from under my feet shortly, but my gigs over the years have ranged from two par cans and a tiny speaker in the conservatory of a house, to three hundred young farmers in a venue which took about every light and speaker I owned at the time. Ain't no "one-size-fits-all" for me mate. :Naughty:

However-I foresee that for a long time to come, I shall be going out with a rig something like a Powerbar and two Maui 11s. We won't need a lot more than that for quite a while, I fear. :(:(:(

OK so this was my thinking, and I'm afraid I've applied business head to this rather than DJ head.

Yes, I could have a variety of sets of equipment, however:

- My equipment fits in a small van. One, small, economical vehicle covers all of my gigs.

- To have more equipment means more storage, more PAT testing, etc etc - not a huge extra cost, but it adds up.

- Equipment depreciates. Roughly, we should expect it to last the length of the warranty. Beyond that, the value drops considerably. Let's take my Evox 8s - for easy maths, I paid £2,000. And I use them 40 times per year, over 5 years. They cost me £10 per event to use. Now, if I add in a larger sound system of 2 x subs and 2 x tops, let's say another £2,000 - if I only use them at 10 gigs per year, that's £40 per event. And because the Evoc 8 won't be going out as often, they now cost me £13.33 per event I take them to. Suddenly, the 'cost per use' increases when you have multiple options, because they aren't being used as often.

- Larger rigs don't necessarily mean a higher fee. This was one of the major factors for me. I couldn't see how I could easily charge considerably more to turn up with a larger rig. So why would I spend more money buying a rig that wouldn't bring me in a considerably higher fee.

- Marketing costs. To promote a wider range of rigs means promoting a wider range of services. More marketing costs.

So in answer to your question, yes, I was predominantly doing very similar gigs in similar venues. 60 - 120 people at a wedding in what I'd class as a 'Devere' venue (even though most venues I work at aren't 'Devere' venues).

That made my marketing easier, because all of my marketing was around photos of 60-120 people at a wedding at a 'Devere' venue - ultra targeted to my ideal customer.

If someone calls with an event that doesn't fit the above and isn't suitable for me "sorry, I'm not the right person for you".

And that's worked nicely for me - and made things easier because I've never needed to worry about taking the 'right' equipment.

Excalibur

21-11-2020, 07:17 AM

If someone calls with an event that doesn't fit the above and isn't suitable for me "sorry, I'm not the right person for you".

Throw away the shovel, son! You're Twenty feet down, and disappearing fast. :doh:

Regular readers will know that these are the two poles of the DJ world, ranging from what we may call "Specialist DJs" to the much maligned " Gig Pigs". I make no apologies for pointing out that like Young Wayne says previously, when your income depends on it, I'm prepared to take on ones that aren't high profile, high pay ones. The motto of the self employed is " don't work, don't eat" for good reason.

It's a debate we've had before, and Gavin is well enough capable of mounting a robust and well reasoned defence to my jibes. Well done that man, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It wouldn't suit me, as I trade more along the lines of " the answer's yes. What's the question"? :) Mayhap if I get a bit of free time, I may stop hijacking this thread, and start a thread/poll to see how opinion varies here, who knows? :whistle:

Gavin has obviously identified his target market, and set his stall out for it. Sound strategy. More in the yet to be created thread.

stormproductions

23-11-2020, 09:19 PM

Well there have been unofficial mentions today from ministers of normality from April. I don't personally believe that and am pretty much planning on hibernation for the winter, but several days ago I had a very experienced event organiser saying that a customer for a June 2021 booking had apparently had a wobble and considered dropping the event, but changed their mind and they're continuing to proceed with plans and the numbers have increased to 220. I'm not going to even consider site visits etc until nearer the time, no idea if it'll be able to proceed in the format they'd like.

For those of us still operating I can see the next few months being very quiet but there's clearly a lot of pent up demand and I think they'll be a lot of extra parties for the sake of having a party on top of catching up with the life marking events when we do get the go-ahead and I'm hoping to be able to cover as many as possible!

Imagine

23-11-2020, 10:27 PM

Well there have been unofficial mentions today from ministers of normality from April.

With the weather getting colder and the nights getting longer, I really am holding onto that glimmer of hope. Trust me, delivering shopping from 6am or until midnight depending on what shift I'm on is getting harder and harder.
I think April's probably a little optimistic but I'm willing to hold onto anything I can to get back to normality.

The problem is, will it be "proper" normal with unrestricted numbers etc., or is it going to be a case of "look here chaps, we've all had the shot in the arm now let's play it jolly careful for the next few months and see what happens", as in limits on gatherings, snap lockdowns if things DO flare up again, and a continuation of the uncertainty we have at the moment?

For those of us still operating I can see the next few months being very quiet but there's clearly a lot of pent up demand and I think they'll be a lot of extra parties for the sake of having a party on top of catching up with the life marking events when we do get the go-ahead and I'm hoping to be able to cover as many as possible!

There's a certain amount of pent up demand, but not as much as I was expecting (yet). I must admit, since the mentions of April today my website traffic has increased a little, but I'm waiting to see if that's a sustained thing or whether it was a one off.

It may change once vaccines are being rolled out but talking to customers at the moment particularly on the subject of the easing of rules over Christmas, a lot of them are planning on locking themselves away rather than meeting up and risking catching it. And don't forget, the whispers on the jungle tom-toms are that we're likely to be in another lockdown for January to pay for the easing over Xmas, which is going to further dent confidence.

It's also going to take a while for the public to forget about social distancing etc (it's become second nature to a lot of people to cross the street instead of bumping into others).

Excalibur

24-11-2020, 06:12 AM

With the weather getting colder and the nights getting longer, I really am holding onto that glimmer of hope. Trust me, delivering shopping from 6am or until midnight depending on what shift I'm on is getting harder and harder.
I think April's probably a little optimistic but I'm willing to hold onto anything I can to get back to normality.
I know whereof you speak. My cunning plan was to cut down the day job, and expand disco work for a couple of years. The day job is now the only income source, so that wasn't a huge success. :(
April a little optimistic? I'd be more looking to August. Let's hope you're right on this one.

The problem is, will it be "proper" normal with unrestricted numbers etc., or is it going to be a case of "look here chaps, we've all had the shot in the arm now let's play it jolly careful for the next few months and see what happens", as in limits on gatherings, snap lockdowns if things DO flare up again, and a continuation of the uncertainty we have at the moment?

As Chris Dye has said elsewhere, I think, I'd expect a 50 person limit for a long while to come.

.

It's also going to take a while for the public to forget about social distancing etc (it's become second nature to a lot of people to cross the street instead of bumping into others).
Cobblers, my son. Attention span of a goldfish, and many of them never even got the memo in the first place. :daft: