My Denon Prime 4 Journey [Archive] - Mobile Disco Directory Forum

Benny Smyth

17-09-2021, 04:34 PM

It's official. It required me to part with some of that pretty paper (which, in turn, resulted in this grown man crying), but I've finally pulled the trigger and ordered myself a Prime 4.

I've been using the Traktor S4 MKII since it's release, and I have a MKI as backup. For the most part, it's been solid - there have been a couple of let downs over the years, but that will be true of any system. My frustration of these let downs is that I can never suss out why Traktor isn't playing ball, and I can never suss out why it starts working again perfectly fine at the next gig like nothing happened. It's like it decides "I can't be arsed today!"

With the S4 having been used so much over the last 8 years, it's obviously starting to show signs of wear. It is still a perfectly functional controller, but I find that I have to press a button a second time because I didn't quite hit it right the first time - not saying that these buttons have to be pressed a certain way...just not as responsive as it used to be.

So the obvious move is to upgrade to the Traktor S4 MKIII and, in turn, Traktor 3 software. And yet, I couldn't do it.

When the Prime 4 and the S4 MKIII released, I decided that instead of jumping on the bandwagon again, I'm just going to sit back and watch what happens. I've spent a long time watching both, and had a play on the S4 and the same routine went though my head over and over again:

Prime can do this, but I know Traktor.

I tend to be very loyal to brands, but I honestly did not care about the Traktor S4. I was chatting to a mate of mine who upgraded to the S4, and the two features that left his mouth first to try and convince me to stick with Traktor was the motorised jogwheel and haptic feedback - two features that I honestly could not give less of a turd about. As he was championing his new controller, I was playing on it thinking 'meh'.

But I know Traktor.

The big thing that really irked me though was that I would have to lose one of the four channels to the mic. I can switch back between playout and mic at the touch of a button (well, two buttons), but I know that I will forget to do that and I'll start trying to talk while the channel is set to playout mode. Knowing me, I'll probably have a bloody track playing on that channel when I need to speak!

But I know Traktor.

Going over the the Prime 4 will mean needing to learn a whole new ecosystem. It seems that I can transfer all of my hotcues, loops and such from Traktor to Prime, so that will certainly ease the transition. The Prime 4 is considerably bigger, heavier and a damn sight more expensive. It looks the knees of the bee, it has features on it that really piques my interest, will shave about a minute from my setup and takedown time and I believe will be future proof for a long time to come (especially if Denon keep supporting with the firmware updates).

But I know Traktor.

The Prime 4 is going to take up the majority of space on my Liteconsole (to the point where the top shelf will need to be sacrificed), will require me to rethink how I load the van and Rock 'n' Roller, is twice the price of the Traktor and there's a chance that I may have to get a little bit creative with where the laptop I use for DMXing goes.

Above everything else though, there is one thing that stayed at the front of my mind: the Prime 4 looks fun. Traktor is very good, but lacks a soul. Maybe it's because the Denon is so new to me that I think that way (familiarity breeds contempt, and all that), but I can't deny that I feel that way.

So tomorrow, the Prime 4 should be in my hands. I've already downloaded Engine Prime to get my music analysed and I'm hoping tomorrow will just be a case of transferring from A-to-B. Then, it's going to be me teaching myself how to make the most of the Prime 4 ecosystem.

Wish me luck!

Excalibur

17-09-2021, 05:57 PM

Short reply, good luck. Long reply later/ tomorrow/ maňana.

DJ Jules

17-09-2021, 07:07 PM

Still watching. Still not buying it :D

Each to their own though.

Julian

Imagine

17-09-2021, 10:21 PM

I pondered, I nearly hit the buy button, and then I joined the FB support group.

There appear to be issues with some of the firmware which put me off. Plus, what happens if it goes belly up on the night (will you be carrying a spare controller and laptop?)

At the moment, it's one investment too far for me which isn't going to make me any money.....as desperately jealous as I am

Benny Smyth

17-09-2021, 10:45 PM

Plus, what happens if it goes belly up on the night (will you be carrying a spare controller and laptop?)

I'm insulted that you'd have to ask such a question! :p

Imagine

17-09-2021, 11:13 PM

I'm insulted that you'd have to ask such a question! :p

I know you work like me and have backups of the backups :D

However, looking at the support pages for that thing, it's amazing how many absolutely rely on the thing to be the bulletproof solution to everything!

Benny Smyth

17-09-2021, 11:28 PM

However, looking at the support pages for that thing, it's amazing how many absolutely rely on the thing to be the bulletproof solution to everything!

If you rely on one thing, it will come to bite you in the backside eventually. Just this past Monday, I was at a wedding where I found out during the process of setting up, my primary playout laptop would not talk to my S4 MKII. Tried rebooting several times, naddah. Swapped the USB cable, still nothing. Swapped the MKII for the MKI and the Traktor software still wasn't interested. Plugged the MKII into the backup laptop and it worked, so I was running lighting and sound off one laptop.

Couple of hours later, I kicked everyone out so they can play with sparklers and while they did that, I tried the primary laptop again. It worked. I couldn't tell you why it stopped working in the first place, and I couldn't tell you why it started working again.

Excalibur

18-09-2021, 07:36 AM

Benny, I've got one of these. It's a bit heavy on the features for me, but I'm across the important ones, the play and pause buttons. I'm sure I'll pick up the rest as I go. ;)

OK, that was whimsical, although it's true that I have had two of those, and they served their purpose well. When they redesigned it, they added a soundcard, and made a pigs ear of it. There are occasions where it does absolutely all that's needed. I and others used to have that, coupled with a high grade soundcard, and it was effectively an alternative to more expensive controllers.

To the Prime 4. we're reinventing the wheel, lads and lasses, we're reinventing the wheel. It used to be called the HD2500. :D I have almost finished rebuilding the case for a Numark DDS, due to finding a DDS Drive unit ( the CD player and disc caddy ) in another case I was about to cannibalise. For some of my gigs it's used as an important part of the night ( it sits there with the same two tracks cued all night, but they're there at the touch of a button when needed ) and it's another backup, not needing the use of a second laptop. Many companies have been looking for playouts which offered nearly PC functionality, but without the PC. ( Media players, in effect).

A colleague who is very set in his ways told me a few years ago that he'd had half an hour playing about with the Prime, and found it totally intuitive, and that he'd strongly considered getting one. Probably would have done, except for the fact that at his age, he couldn't see it returning anything on his investment. I hope you grow to love yours, Benny. Here's to many reliable and happy years with it.

DJ Jules

18-09-2021, 07:47 AM

Ok, full answer now.

I used to have a Pioneer DDJ-SX which (with a laptop and appropriate software) is near enough the same button layout as the Prime 4. I took it to the big gigs and had a Pioneer DDJ-SB for anything that didn't require 2 mic inputs, EQ on the mic channels, all of the extra buttons that the SX offered or the showyness of the SX.

I sold the SX about 6 months later and moved to compact controllers as I used the SX twice in the six months after I bought the SB. The performance pads were nice, but I can do the same mixes with the little hot cue/sample buttons on an MC6000.

I'm definitely not going to argue with the case for replacing something that is getting unreliable. I'm still just not sure if I'd ever buy a Prime 4, or any other controller that is larger than it needs to be or has more buttons than I need to use.

Julian

Benny Smyth

18-09-2021, 05:07 PM

Yesterday, I imported all of my music to Engine Prime (music management software for Denon), so when the Prime 4 landed on my doorstep this morning, all I needed to do was install a hard drive and transfer everything over.

That process was quicker than I expected, so I had a play on it for an hour or so. There's a lot of muscle memory to get rid of!

Tonight, I'm gonna do something silly - I'm using it at a gig. Still taking my Traktors too, but the only way I'm gonna get used to using it is to use it, so why the hell not?

I'll report back on my first impressions.

Eek!

Benny Smyth

19-09-2021, 01:46 AM

Now then...that was interesting.

There's a lot to like, and a lot to get used to. There's also a few things that I didn't like, but I don't think they are deal breakers.

Importing all of my music into Engine Prime took a fair few hours from Yesterday afternoon and going on into the evening. The idea was that Engine Prime would import all of my playlists, loops, cue points etc. Playlists made the journey safely, but the cue points and loops obviously got lost on the way - not a huge thing, as at least a huge chunk of the work has been done already, BUT playing a song and then suddenly remembering why I had something there is going to be a frustrating process until I get everything as it was.

The process of installing the SSD drive and copying everything over took maybe a couple of hours, which was a nice surprise. I started messing about with it at home, but I learned more about it at tonight's gig. It was a wedding at a venue 10 minutes up the road from me, which has it's own sound and lighting installed. I saw this as the ideal opportunity to use the Prime 4 as I wouldn't need to worry about lighting - just focus on the controller.

On the top left and top right of the controller are the effects, with one knob selecting the effect that you want and the other knobs changing the parameters. So far, so normal. The knob selecting the effect doesn't have a 'clicking' feel for each effect you come across - it's just a smooth twist, and that felt really weird. Usually when a knob is used to pick something, it clicks, right? That's not just me, surely? Again, not a deal breaker...just weird.

The sync buttons are also odd. On Traktor, if I want to sync the BPM of my next song to the one that's playing, I just press 'Sync' on the forthcoming track, and Bob's your mother's brother. On the Prime 4, I have to press the sync button on the deck playing before pressing sync on the forthcoming track. It took me ages to suss out what the hell was going on with that, and getting out of sync isn't just as simple as pressing sync again. Yes, I can mix but using the sync button is supposed to make my life easier. This process is using up too much brain power for my liking. It was easier to just go old school and mix manually. Why have I got to press a combination of buttons to do two things - sync on, sync off. Easy.

Mic control is great. Inputs for a couple of mics, get to mess with the EQ and add an echo, should I desire. It's simple, easy and elegant. I love it.

The interface on the touchscreen...there are bits I love, and bits I hate. The fact that it's touchscreen is amazing - I can use either the buttons on the controller to do everything on there, or just touch the screen. You can order your playlists however you want, but when you reorder them (say, in order of BPM), when you leave the playlist and then come back to it, the order reverts to it's default. That's really frustrating, and I :Censored:ing hate it. I also hate that there are three colours on the waveform - it looks horrible, and it makes it really difficult to place accurate cue points and loops. As for the beatgrids assigned to each song by Engine Prime, I assume the process is throwing three darts at a board and whatever the total score is will be the BPM that they designate this particular song. There was a hell of a lot of rejigging, thus proving Traktor really is the best at that sort of thing. The search function is quite fast - not as instantaneous as Traktor, but you're not waiting for long at all.

Navigation on the screen is really easy. It just feels like a phone or tablet, and that's exactly what it should be like. This is technology that we all know and are very familiar with, and I really like that Denon didn't try to go and do something unique with this. Because of that familiarity, it is a very accessible controller.

The biggest issue I have with it is muscle memory, but that is not the fault of the controller - just the idiot using it. It's a fun piece of kit and when the lights are down, it looks very sexy. I like that I can customize the lighting options on it, and that I can add my logo onto the jogwheels (branding, baby!). It feels really well built, and while I did feel on edge using this so soon after it landing on my doorstep, the truth is that it is very stable - the screen on Traktor sometimes freezes for a few seconds (without effecting the music), but the Prime 4 didn't even blink.

I like it. It's going to take a long time for this to feel second nature to me but even now, I can see the potential of what I can get out of this thing.

18933

Excalibur

19-09-2021, 08:14 AM

Looks like you're in for The Long Haul, Benny. I must have a go with one of these, but from what you say, I'm not sure it would suit me. I hope you do grow to love it.

DeckstarDeluxe

19-09-2021, 09:22 AM

I got one a month or so ago against my will really. Mainly due to my 6000 being old and battered like it's user however stock of anything 7000 or remotely close model were out of stock. I lucked out that a friend of a friend was selling his for a grand and I had one of those "afi" moments.

So glad I did, it's different gravy. Not had an issue as of yet. Yes it takes up more space but bloomin' heck it feels so good DJing on it.

Good luck with it Benny, you'll love it in no time at all.

Imagine

20-09-2021, 12:16 AM

I still have an itch to buy one. I've wanted one since they first appeared but seeing some of the comments on the FB groups is a bit off-putting.
I did download the Prime Engine thingy on my MacBook when I was last looking and didn't really get on with it. Might be time for another look.

The day will come where I need to invest in something like this though. Both of my playout Macs are 2013 models (solid as rocks but nothing lasts for ever and one day they will fail).

Keep us updated on the journey Benny. I'm watching with interest.
By the way - what hard drive did you opt for?

Benny Smyth

20-09-2021, 05:44 PM

I still have an itch to buy one. I've wanted one since they first appeared but seeing some of the comments on the FB groups is a bit off-putting.

Go to the ocean and fill up a cup of water. If there's no fish in there, does that mean that there is no fish in the ocean? I'd take those comments with a pinch of salt, as you mostly only hear from consumers when something is wrong. Nowhere near as many will comment on the system working fine.

I did download the Prime Engine thingy on my MacBook when I was last looking and didn't really get on with it. Might be time for another look.

I bet you still won't get on with it. It's just a bit...meh. Plus, I found out today that when I make changes to a single thing, I still have to copy over the whole lot to the Prime 4. I thought to myself "I've only changed this playlist, so I'll just copy that over" and good as gold, it did exactly that. It removed everything else from the Prime 4, but the new playlist is copied over. Now that I have spotted this, I have now copied everything over again BUT it shouldn't be that much of a chore in the first place. Engine Prime is not a selling point at all...

By the way - what hard drive did you opt for?

One of these. (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089QXQ1TV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Imagine

20-09-2021, 09:34 PM

Go to the ocean and fill up a cup of water. If there's no fish in there, does that mean that there is no fish in the ocean?

Blimey - that's a bit deep for a Monday! :D

I bet you still won't get on with it. It's just a bit...meh. Plus, I found out today that when I make changes to a single thing, I still have to copy over the whole lot to the Prime 4. I thought to myself "I've only changed this playlist, so I'll just copy that over" and good as gold, it did exactly that. It removed everything else from the Prime 4, but the new playlist is copied over. Now that I have spotted this, I have now copied everything over again BUT it shouldn't be that much of a chore in the first place.

Oooh.....that's a biggy. I can see that being a right pain in the proverbial.

I actually watched a very long tutorial/walkround of the unit on YouTube last night and suddenly realised something....it does EXACTLY the same stuff as my MC7000 but without the hassle of a laptop (the layout and functionality is virtually identical). Before I watched that video, I was ready to hit the button and spend a lot of money with my local dealership (well...after arranging a coffee and a play with one first).

Now that you've mentioned the playlist copying thing, I'm thinking I might well be better off staying as I am for the moment.

Benny Smyth

21-09-2021, 12:02 AM

Oooh.....that's a biggy. I can see that being a right pain in the proverbial.

It was a pain not knowing. Now that I do know, I can work with it. To me, I think its unnecessary to have to sync everything every single time, but (depending on size of music collection), it doesn't take too long and because Engine Prime doesn't use up too much computer brain speed, you can minimise it and plod on with other work while it does its thing.

It's not perfect, but Engine Prime is still a baby and I dare say that Denon are still reacting to DJs saying "Why not do it this way?" It'll improve.

Engine Prime is free, so just have a play with it. Import your music (it won't affect whatever you're using at the moment) and see how you get in. Worst case scenario is that you uninstall again.

But I do suggest still having a play with the Prime 4. It's a lot of fun.

Excalibur

21-09-2021, 05:54 AM

I viewed one in the shop yesterday. Doubtless it's a wonderful piece of kit, but it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuge! If it won't fit in a Micron booth, it's not for me. Simples.

ppentertainments

21-09-2021, 08:32 AM

I viewed one in the shop yesterday. Doubtless it's a wonderful piece of kit, but it's huuuuuuuuuuuuuge! If it won't fit in a Micron booth, it's not for me. Simples.
That is my challenge too. I could keep the MC6000 for use with the micron booth, but sods law I would take the wrong booth/controller combination.

Needing to have a look at the Roland machines as my MC6000 starting to play up a bit.

DeckstarDeluxe

21-09-2021, 10:16 AM

I had a bit of an issue with the size of the thing when looking at it.

Having taken it out on the road it's not that bad at all. I can fit the backup laptop to the side of it and it fits on my deckstand nice and snuggly.

The only issue I have is that the screen is hard to see if you have a lighting shelf on your deckstand. I have to slightly bend my knees at times to see the screen. It's not a major bugbear when the rest of it is just so damm nice :)

Nakatomi

21-09-2021, 07:13 PM

I've pondered. I've watched videos. I've played on one and its little brother . Two things put me off other than the price. 1. No support for stems unless using it as a controller for virtual DJ and 2. Relying on external software to manage the music library. Just no! It's got WiFi... Why not just have a webpage based database helper app instead?

Shame really.

Oh a third thing... Lighting integration. I'm kind of stuck with OS2L now with VDJ & loathe to change to soundswitch.

Imagine

21-09-2021, 11:00 PM

OK - I'm still very tempted. I actually started a thread about this a couple of months ago.

Cost - it's cheaper than a new MacBook so it's a tick there (mine as I've already mentioned are now of pensionable age and although work at the moment....it's only a matter of time).

Lighting - I tried SoundSwitch and didn't get on with it (mainly a lack of patience). I use LightKeyApp (which is a Mac based programme I pay £80 a year for...it works and works very well). That said, SoundSwitch is a similar price so now that I'm going back to being a full timer might be worth investing some time in actually learning what it does (I've seen some brilliant videos but still have a lot of questions on that one)

Synch'ing music...this is where I struggle although it seems simple enough. At the moment, I put playlists together with the help of Apple Music (iTunes). I subscribe to iTunes Match for £25 a year and it just works sync'ing everything to the two playouts. Having a couple of SSD's I sync to shouldn't be too much of an issue.

I might well be off to see my local (80 miles away) dealer on Thursday to have a play and potentially part with some money as a long term project. If I can plonk this on the booth to control the music AND the lighting (it's gonna take time to get things right) instead of a controller and two laptops, it might just be something which doesn't make money, but at the same time does because it saves me time, and time is money right?

Imagine

22-09-2021, 10:47 PM

Okaaaay.....sorry to hijack the thread Benny, but I think my own Prime 4 journey is about to begin.

It's a MASSIVE investment for me as I'm about to go full time again, but if I don't do it now....the law of Sod says that the MacBooks will expire (they're getting on in years) and I'll be up a certain creek without adequate means of propulsion.

I've got a play-date at my local dealer tomorrow, I have a USB and SD card prepped (they're literally taking one out of the box for me to play with), and we'll see how things go. I've done a LOT of studying today on what's what, how and why (my brains are absolutely fried). I'm actually getting used to Engine Prime as well. You're right Benny - it's a simple beast but then it does appear to do everything that's likely to be needed. The only downside as you say is that you appear to have to sync the entire library every time (I'm sure we're missing a trick there somewhere)

I've also started looking into SoundSwitch properly. If I do this thing, I want to do it properly and go laptop free apart from emergencies. I want to be able to plug in the Prime and start playing without connecting several different laptops up to various cables and dongles. There's a month's worth of work just there to script the multiple combos of lighting I could possibly use from my store for any given gig.

All in all, I've got a LOT of work ahead so just as well I'm going to have the time during the week after just 7 more Sainsbury's shifts :) (I'm planning on going "live" with it once I've reorganised my playlists/crates/collections or whatever they're called now AND got SoundSwitch integration going!).

OH, and just to add to the self induced pressure, I'm already in the midst of moving from DJEP to Deckbooks for all gigs after 1st Jan 22 :daft:

Benny Smyth

23-09-2021, 07:32 AM

I've also started looking into SoundSwitch properly. If I do this thing, I want to do it properly and go laptop apart from emergencies.

Yesterday, I started nerding up on SoundSwitch and either I have completely misinterpreted what I've watched on YouTube, or I'm about to deal a crushing blow: a laptop is still needed to run SoundSwitch. Happy to be corrected on that, but everything I have seen has a laptop in the chain.

Plus, while I am loving the idea of having preprogrammed songs all night long, I still need control for the first dance and last song, and it looks like Soundswitch isn't suitable for my needs. :(

Good luck with the demo today, Wayne. Would love to see if you come over to the dark side...

Imagine

23-09-2021, 07:37 AM

Yesterday, I started nerding up on SoundSwitch and either I have completely misinterpreted what I've watched on YouTube, or I'm about to deal a crushing blow: a laptop is still needed to run SoundSwitch. Happy to be corrected on that, but everything I have seen has a laptop in the chain.

Plus, while I am loving the idea of having preprogrammed songs all night long, I still need control for the first dance and last song, and it looks like Soundswitch isn't suitable for my needs. :(

Good luck with the demo today, Wayne. Would love to see if you come over to the dark side...

I made the discovery about SS needing a laptop a little after I typed my last reply. Ho hum!
As for first dances, look at "static loops". They override everything in SS and are there exactly for the purposes of first dances and cake cutting.

This is going to be one hell of a journey!

ppentertainments

23-09-2021, 09:15 AM

Yesterday, I started nerding up on SoundSwitch and either I have completely misinterpreted what I've watched on YouTube, or I'm about to deal a crushing blow: a laptop is still needed to run SoundSwitch. Happy to be corrected on that, but everything I have seen has a laptop in the chain.

This has been another negative for me when looking at these standalone controllers - everyone who uses one still seem to need a laptop for 'something'. Personally if I have to take a laptop I would prefer a cheaper controller and the benefits of a larger screen which a laptop provides.

I remember back in the olden days when using a cortex/mixer - I still had a laptop which did kind of defeat the objectives.

DeckstarDeluxe

23-09-2021, 09:54 AM

This has been another negative for me when looking at these standalone controllers - everyone who uses one still seem to need a laptop for 'something'. Personally if I have to take a laptop I would prefer a cheaper controller and the benefits of a larger screen which a laptop provides.

I remember back in the olden days when using a cortex/mixer - I still had a laptop which did kind of defeat the objectives.

My laptop there is for just to act as the main backup. It also means I can chuck any event related notes etc and have it on a big screen there as well. Means I just have the mc6000 in the van and I take one less laptop to the gig.

Imagine

23-09-2021, 02:47 PM

My laptop there is for just to act as the main backup. It also means I can chuck any event related notes etc and have it on a big screen there as well. Means I just have the mc6000 in the van and I take one less laptop to the gig.

And that’s my thinking too now

The journey has begun!

Imagine

23-09-2021, 11:37 PM

OK - well I got one! (Gawd knows I've been pondering for such a long time on this one and I'm glad I finally made the decision).

It's absolutely GORGEOUS! (and I'm not the sort that goes all gooey over a bit of kit), but....

I might use it for Saturday's wedding (with backups), I might not....I've still got some learning to do at the moment. It's going to take some getting used to but I'm getting there after an entire afternoon playing with it. I might even cheat for this one and use it as a controller in the traditional sense with VDJ just until I'm fully conversant on everything it does (and it does a LOT!).

One thing that's really starting to get me though....the Engine Prime software appears to be really buggy. It keeps crashing on a Mac which is more than capable of running it!

And then to SoundSwitch (which definitely WON'T be coming to this weekend's wedding!). It's one heck of a learning curve is that one. It took a very long time for me to connect the CAT4 to the Mac and actually get it communicating (turns out I had a fixed IP address assigned), and I seem to have a LOT of tracks with no beat grid, so SS won't script them.

I might well start a separate thread on the workings of Soundswitch as and when I have the time to actually learn everything there is to know about it....it's blimmin' complicated but at the same time, more powerful that I'd ever imagined!

Today has been one hell of a day of learning new stuff. The Prime's going to change the way I work for sure and it's going to shave all important minutes off of setup and teardown.

Imagine

30-09-2021, 10:59 PM

Sooo....I've had a few cancelled shifts at the supermarket this week (don't care....only three to go now and the fewer I do the better), and I've had time to do a LOT of playing around. So much so that I'm going to take it live at this weekend's wedding (eek!).

Nothing to lose on this one....I'm pretty much entirely pre-playlisted with delightful hip-hop/rap/grime...certainly nothing that I can foresee filling the dance floor. Oh, I'm also plugging into a sound ceiling :o

I've sorted the crashing issues - Engine Prime was trying to analyse the entire library and once that was sorted on a different Mac, it's all run smoothly.
I'm liking a lot of the effects on this thing. I don't normally use effects but I can see some of these coming in really useful. It's actually a game changer from the practice I've had at home.

The only real downer for me at the moment is that it doesn't remember the gain settings like VDJ does. Now I could probably analyse every track in some software and auto-level everything but I don't like playing like that. We'll see how that goes in real life on Saturday.

After last week's problems of dud MacBook chargers, I'm actually looking forward to going live with this beauty of a machine now :)

How's yours going Benny? Any tips I need to be aware of?

Benny Smyth

01-10-2021, 01:27 PM

How's yours going Benny? Any tips I need to be aware of?

It's going fine. I'm still learning the Denon layout, and I've actually caught myself looking down at the controller more than I am at the dance floor. You're more familiar with the Denon kit than I am, so you'll find your feet long before I can treat this as second nature. Beyond that, I have no issues with it at all. I do miss Autogain from Traktor, and I find it odd that the Prime 4 doesn't do this, but I'd best that'll be a firmware update at some point.

You'll love it, Wayne - it's a fun controller.

Benny Smyth

05-10-2021, 02:39 PM

a laptop is still needed to run SoundSwitch.

Hmmm...looks like I have been corrected. It looks like the Prime 4 can be used, sans laptop. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO2SDrwXtQc)

Imagine

05-10-2021, 02:44 PM

Hmmm...looks like I have been corrected. It looks like the Prime 4 can be used, sans laptop. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO2SDrwXtQc)

Yeah - I just got the email about that as well.
Looks like I need to do some proper research into SS now. The temptation to have everything in one box is huge!

Nakatomi

05-10-2021, 03:04 PM

Yeah - I just got the email about that as well.
Looks like I need to do some proper research into SS now. The temptation to have everything in one box is huge!
Did you work out what'd gone wrong with it at the last gig Wayne? Is it ok now? My worst nightmare dropping that much money on kit & it falling over...

Imagine

05-10-2021, 03:26 PM

Did you work out what'd gone wrong with it at the last gig Wayne? Is it ok now? My worst nightmare dropping that much money on kit & it falling over...

Nope.

It was really weird. Plugged it in, turned it on and it comes up with a screen which asks if you want to load the user profile (as normal) and wouldn't let me click yes or no. In fact the only way I could get it to do anything at all was to pull the power lead (it's got a small battery reserve in it to dismount the disc etc). It did that three times!

And yet I plugged it in on Sunday night (and several times since) and it was OK. Whether it's because it was so damp, or in a very light marquee or maybe my fingers were cold or something I really don't know. I can't even find any similar problems on the interweb so I'll keep firing it up this week and see what happens.

If possible I'd really like to use it this weekend 'cos it's going to be a nice easy wedding and one our dear Old Git up North would absolutely LOVE! (it's going to be more about the fun and getting people dancing on the floor rather than sitting and listening to their travel to work faves ;) )

Benny Smyth

05-10-2021, 05:26 PM

I'm now in the process of updating the firmware to 2.0 - the new features make me a bit more happy (continuous play through a playlist...yes please!).

Imagine

05-10-2021, 05:31 PM

I'm now in the process of updating the firmware to 2.0 - the new features make me a bit more happy (continuous play through a playlist...yes please!).

It's on my job list for this evening

Benny Smyth

05-10-2021, 05:36 PM

It's on my job list for this evening

Make it an overnight job. Engine DJ will need to analyse your tracks again.

Benny Smyth

05-10-2021, 05:37 PM

Make it an overnight job. Engine DJ will need to analyse your tracks again.

Oh, and my Prime 4 wouldn't update from 1.6 to 2 via wifi (it actually didn't recognise that 2 was available). I had to old skool it and connect the laptop and update that way. Your mileage may vary, but just in case...

Benny Smyth

11-10-2021, 01:10 PM

I'm having a go on SoundSwitch. Gonna work on it this week with a target to debut it at Saturday's wedding.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the garage. :p

Imagine

11-10-2021, 09:20 PM

I'm having a go on SoundSwitch. Gonna work on it this week with a target to debut it at Saturday's wedding.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the garage. :p

Strangely enough that's exactly what I've been doing tonight.
This is going to be a very long and painful process. The auto-scripts out of the box don't seem to do an awful lot!

I get that the tracks ideally need individually scripting but surely the auto script should suffice and look nice for those that aren't individually done shouldn't they?

Benny Smyth

11-10-2021, 09:40 PM

Strangely enough that's exactly what I've been doing tonight.
This is going to be a very long and painful process. The auto-scripts out of the box don't seem to do an awful lot!

I get that the tracks ideally need individually scripting but surely the auto script should suffice and look nice for those that aren't individually done shouldn't they?

I've found that the autoscripts are...fine. Bearing in mind that it's not listening to a song, just analysing beatgrids and waveforms, it seems to be giving it a pretty good stab.

Whatever you choose to autoscript will need tweaking, but its a decent start. The only thing that bothers me is that it's very reliant on the pulse effect on the beat.

For now, I'm autoscripting my 00s, 10s & 20s folders, and creating custom scripts for the 'usual suspects'. From there, it will be a case of building on it for a few hours every week.

Oh...but I am going to spend a lot if time on a particular song to show off a bit!

Imagine

11-10-2021, 09:46 PM

I've found that the autoscripts are...fine. Bearing in mind that it's not listening to a song, just analysing beatgrids and waveforms, it seems to be giving it a pretty good stab.

Whatever you choose to autoscript will need tweaking, but its a decent start. The only thing that bothers me is that it's very reliant on the pulse effect on the beat.

For now, I'm autoscripting my 00s, 10s & 20s folders, and creating custom scripts for the 'usual suspects'. From there, it will be a case of building on it for a few hours every week.

Oh...but I am going to spend a lot if time on a particular song to show off a bit!

That was my plan too....autoscript everything and then customise the stuff I use the most.
I'm finding two particular problems though....Engine DJ seems to think everything has a beat grid, SS disagrees and has NO beat grids (and I'm not about to add beat grids to 50k tracks manually!)

The other is that the colours don't seem to be all that. It seems to stick to about three of them (mainly blue or white with the occasional shot of pink).
Maybe I need to come back to it tomorrow ;)

Benny Smyth

11-10-2021, 09:59 PM

I'm finding two particular problems though....Engine DJ seems to think everything has a beat grid, SS disagrees and has NO beat grids (and I'm not about to add beat grids to 50k tracks manually!)

I found that at first before realising I hadn't told SS that I'm using Engine. If you haven't already, settings on the top right is self explanatory. If that's not the solution, then I'm out of ideas at the moment.

Imagine

11-10-2021, 11:03 PM

I found that at first before realising I hadn't told SS that I'm using Engine. If you haven't already, settings on the top right is self explanatory. If that's not the solution, then I'm out of ideas at the moment.

Yup - tried that and then realised I needed to restart SS after making the change.
I'm a bit more impressed now :)

All I'm trying to do at the moment is programme up my kid's party setup (a WashFX2 and a Swarm Wash FX). It's looking good at the moment but is going to take some serious tweaking for the wedding stuff.

Time now to try and get this info into the Prime....wish me luck :D

Imagine

12-10-2021, 09:50 PM

Interesting......

Having spent the entire day auto scripting my library and synching it to the P4....it doesn't work! :mad:

Here's the problem. I own a SS dongle....but it's faulty. The laptops don't see it (it used to work), so instead on previous attempts with SS I've used a bog-standard Entec OpenDMX dongle. It works and I have an email from SS to say it always will....until you plug the thing into the back of the P4!

Plug the SS dongle into the P4 and it sees it, but it keeps coming and going and no DMX signal is sent to the lights.

Ho Hum...that's another £30 thrown at this little project for a new dongle then (or should I buy two just in case? :daft:)

Benny Smyth

13-10-2021, 11:22 AM

If its faulty, why buy a new one? Just exchange it.

Imagine

13-10-2021, 11:48 AM

If its faulty, why buy a new one? Just exchange it.

Because it's way out of warranty. I got it when SS first went over to the micro-USB's

Imagine

14-10-2021, 10:02 PM

Oh WOW!

I've spent an evening "playing" with custom scripting a track. It's nowhere near complete and I'm going to be losing a LOT of hours on this thing!
The capabilities and control over everything with SoundSwitch is absolutely amazing. This is going to be a game changer for me :)

Steven

04-11-2021, 08:50 AM

How Does sound switch deal with static scenes for first dances ? i like to spot the couple with moving heads or leave hearts on the floor near.

Imagine

04-11-2021, 11:05 AM

How Does sound switch deal with static scenes for first dances ? i like to spot the couple with moving heads or leave hearts on the floor near.

It has "static" scenes which you can manually trigger and set everything to a certain look.
I use these for first dances to set the colours, hearts/stars etc. and then turn them off to let SS do its thing with the scripts once the first dance is done and dusted.

Steven

04-11-2021, 11:29 AM

Ah that's handy. i do have the micro USB so might go back to this. currently torn between SS or the wolfmix. want something that does different stuff without me having to trigger it or spend too long on QLC+ adding trigger points to songs

Imagine

04-11-2021, 11:42 AM

All I can say is give it a go - you'll be surprised.

I've programmed static scenes for things like games lighting for the kids parties, first dance and slow dance static scenes, and left the rest at the moment to auto scripting (you'll have to auto script every song in your library which can take forever). For anything that's not auto scripted there's also something called auto-loops which kick in when a track hasn't got a lighting script.

I'm actually astounded by the power of SS. I'd tried it when it first came out and it seemed too complicated to get my head around (it's different from anything else). But the difference in even my basic lighting show with SS compared to LightKey which I've been using for years is worlds apart!

Imagine

10-07-2022, 01:41 AM

OK, revisiting a very old thread but hey-ho...

I've finally got a proper flight case for my Prime 4 instead of a soft shell....and it feels so much more secure.

The downside....it's blimmin' big and heavy (it has WHEELS!). I opted for the OdysseyUSA case (https://www.simplysoundandlighting.co.uk/odyssey-denon-prime-4-glide-style-case-w-whls-2u-rack) which set me back a lot of pennies and weighs in at just under a metric tonne! (I kid you not). By the way, the first thing I did was to remove the sliding shelf because you can't see the built in screen with it in place unless it's fully extended...which means it's about 6 feet from front to back.

But, it's now completely pre-wired with two mic kits (handheld for weddings, head mount for kids parties) plus a desk lamp, and when setting up for a gig has just a single 13a socket to plug in, plus the XLRs for the PA....job's a good-un. It's literally 30 seconds to remove the lid and plug it in.

But now I'm going to have to make changes to the setup to accommodate it. Whilst it sort of fits onto the Combi booth (just....there's an overhang), and nicely fits onto the folding event table I use behind the rustic booth, I really fear the day I have to put it onto the Equinox booth (the cross bars are already bent out of shape). Plus, because of the space underneath it, it raises the P4 just a little too high for comfortably working on.

And then last week, I had a sort of epiphany....why use the built in shelves of these things at all? Why not just use them as a facade and put the P4 in all its glory onto something more solid. Yup - a keyboard stand's on its way to me next week and should do the job nicely....and save even more weight in the van and burn less diesel :)

Nakatomi

10-07-2022, 10:29 AM

Steady now. You're not that many steps away from having a DJ console!

Excalibur

10-07-2022, 03:14 PM

Steady now. You're not that many steps away from having a DJ console!

Or a coronary! I'm happy to accept that 18" active subs are heavy, but a playout that's too big and heavy for a stand? Blimey, I can carry my laptop over my shoulder, VMS in one hand, and DMX controller/radio mic box in the other. You're really not selling the Denon to me, even though I had a very hard look at the Denon GO. :(

Imagine

10-07-2022, 10:05 PM

Steady now. You're not that many steps away from having a DJ console!

It's being considered - but no in the way you're thinking ;)

I'm still a fan of having something a little more substantial looking to repel boarders (my taller than normal rustic facade is brilliant at stopping the drinks waving brigade as it's too tall for them to lean on!)

Or a coronary! I'm happy to accept that 18" active subs are heavy, but a playout that's too big and heavy for a stand? Blimey, I can carry my laptop over my shoulder, VMS in one hand, and DMX controller/radio mic box in the other. You're really not selling the Denon to me, even though I had a very hard look at the Denon GO. :(

To be fair, I've not yet tried it on the Equinox booth in the flight case. I've also not actually weighed the flightcase with everything in it (might be a fun thing to do).
As heavy as it is though, it's wheeled, and EVERYTHING needed for playout is inside it. Despite the weight, it shaves around 5 mins off the setup and derig time (I was out of the venue in 25 minutes last night and wasn't in a particular hurry as warm as it was!)

As for the GO - keep looking at it (or even the cheaper Numark MixStream Pro - it's basically the Prime 2 in a nasty plastic case with a cheap "monitor" speaker built in). It would have been ideal in the venue I was in last night (coupled with a pair of Maui5Gos)....the limiter looked a bit like a Christmas tree as times :zip:

DJ Jules

11-07-2022, 06:42 AM

To be fair, I've not yet tried it on the Equinox booth in the flight case. I've also not actually weighed the flightcase with everything in it (might be a fun thing to do).
As heavy as it is though, it's wheeled, and EVERYTHING needed for playout is inside it. Despite the weight, it shaves around 5 mins off the setup and derig time (I was out of the venue in 25 minutes last night and wasn't in a particular hurry as warm as it was!)

I'm still trying to find a reason to go the Prime route. I've had a DDJ-SX before so I know how heavy these things can get in their flight cases. As nice as it was, and as pretty as it looked, it didn't do anything that the Denon MC6000 can't do, and I have the controller, DMX interface, 2 wireless DMX transmitters, 2 radio mic receivers and all of the power supplies in a case that I can pick up with one hand and can fit in a micron booth. Laptop goes in the backpack along with headphones and 6 mics and setup takes minutes with powercon and XLR's in/out on the outside of the case.

So yeah.... Still not sold I'm afraid. I'm not resistant to change, I just can't find a reason to spend the money and make the move in this direction.

Julian

rth_discos

11-07-2022, 07:30 AM

it didn't do anything that the Denon MC6000 can't do, and I have the controller, DMX interface, 2 wireless DMX transmitters, 2 radio mic receivers and all of the power supplies in a case that I can pick up with one hand and can fit in a micron booth. Laptop goes in the backpack along with headphones and 6 mics and setup takes minutes with powercon and XLR's in/out on the outside of the case.

Albeit the Mk2, I'm in the same boat - I cannot see any reason for me to change my Denon controller. It's an excellent bit of kit and just does everything.

The Prime still feels like a step back - there are many things I can do quicker on my setup than the Prime for example.

DeckstarDeluxe

11-07-2022, 10:23 AM

I got the swan flight case and I'm not trying to be macho man randy savage here but it's easily a one arm carry.

I've seen folks on the DJ forums use the soft case and I don't know how they can be ok with that, flight case all day long!

Excalibur

11-07-2022, 04:04 PM

. I'm not resistant to change, I just can't find a reason to spend the money and make the move in this direction.

Julian
The only reason for me would be being battery powered. That's what I'm looking for.

I got the swan flight case and I'm not trying to be macho man randy savage here but it's easily a one arm carry.

I've seen folks on the DJ forums use the soft case and I don't know how they can be ok with that, flight case all day long!

Mayhap for you young 'uns, Neil. But what about us doddery old blokes, who struggle carrying the laptop? :whistle:

Benny Smyth

11-07-2022, 04:20 PM

DeckstarDeluxe

12-07-2022, 10:14 AM

The only reason for me would be being battery powered. That's what I'm looking for.

Mayhap for you young 'uns, Neil. But what about us doddery old blokes, who struggle carrying the laptop? :whistle:

Why would you need a laptop? :D

Excalibur

12-07-2022, 10:14 PM

Why would you need a laptop? :D

Well because, as far as I know, the Prime doesn't have Solitaire, or Facebook installed. Simples. :D

Imagine

12-07-2022, 10:58 PM

Well because, as far as I know, the Prime doesn't have Solitaire, or Facebook installed. Simples. :D

You're supposed to be twiddling knobs and looking busy whilst playing Grandmasters during the wedding brekky! :Naughty:

Do what the rest of us do.....use the tablet to do those bits whilst occasionally looking like you're sliding the crossfaders :whistle:

Imagine

28-07-2022, 12:37 AM

OK - back on topic with this one....my P4 setup is finally EXACTLY as I want it to be.

Yes, it's blimmin' heavy in it's flight-case (you'll understand when you look at the piccy below), BUT.....literally EVERYTHING needed for music and lights (apart from the actual PA and lights) is in there. Two XLR's and one 13a plug to be plugged in, and it's ready to party. It's even got a removable laptop arm on it in the right of the shot should I decide to go the VDJ route (as I still do for some weddings). Two mic receivers sit under the controller (my main handhelds and my kid's headset receivers), plus there's a work-light and wireless DMX transmitter built in.

Today, I took delivery of a very heavy duty stand (and NO Justin....it's NOT a console :lol:). Because the flight-case has a 2u rack underneath the controller, I was finding it just a couple of inches too high on my booths to be comfortable for a 5-6 hour shift. The stand means that it's now a comfortable 2-3 inches lower and much easier to work on. It also fits behind ALL of my booths, so I can still go out with the starlit, the rustic, hell even the Retro - this setup now fits all, and I won't have the worry of the Equinox Mk2 collapsing under the weight of it. Because the top of the stand is slightly lower than most booth shelves, it's also a hell of a lot easier to get this lot from the floor and into position without breaking my back.

Why still a booth in front? It's a psychological thing and I still believe it repels boarders to an extent. Plus, I can now move the booth slightly forward of the controller to avoid those nasty beer spillages.

That said, plans are afoot to possibly "shroud" the stand in a minimalistic type of way so it could look like one of these trendy podium consoles without actually being one ;). It would have to stay black though so none of this white malarky :zip:

Another addition - look to the bottom left of the flight case. It's a neat little wall mounted microphone holder which is held on with heavy duty velcro and does a very good job of holding a mic and the cans. It's very easy peel off and on-able and sits nicely in the case when it's all put away.

Total time now from getting the kit into the venue to being fully operational (on average)? 15 minutes! Tear down is the same!

After far too many years of chopping and changing stuff around, I can finally say I'm 100% happy with my setup.

18998

SimonJeez53

10-09-2022, 05:36 PM

Excalibur

23-09-2022, 10:17 PM

Over the years, I have seen colleagues have issues with the later Denon gear. I myself had a controller which refused to play nicely with my ( old and tired ) laptop, although it had worked perfectly with everything else connected to it before or since.

I have seen people bemoaning the foibles and failings of Engine software.

Then why, oh why do I want a Prime GO so badly? :daft: I must be crackers. :muppet:

Perhaps it's because it will offer more capability on ceremonies in the middle of fields for me. It's capable of running on battery power. It doesn't need a laptop, but it will run with one. A well known global company are offering interest free credit on it. I don't have to stump up a grand tomorrow to own one. It fits in a Micron booth, again without needing a laptop where there's barely room for one.

I don't think there's anything else on the market with these capabilities. Numark and Gemini have P4 type machines, but without the vital battery facility.

Wayne, Benny- brace yourselves lads, you may just have been promoted to the rank of Honorary Help Desk Technicians, First Class. Watch this space. ;)

Benny Smyth

24-09-2022, 10:19 PM

Excalibur

24-09-2022, 11:54 PM

I keep looking at the Go.

But I want one. I couldn't tell you why I want one, but I do.

Snap. https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Roland-BA-330-Portable-Digital-4-Channel-Stereo-PA-System/BPU

Benny Smyth

25-09-2022, 12:16 AM

Snap. https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Roland-BA-330-Portable-Digital-4-Channel-Stereo-PA-System/BPU

A few months ago, I actually bought myself a Bose S1 Pro.

90% of it's life has been spent in my garden playing deep house (or the odd podcast) while I have a few whiskeys to unwind. Beyond that, with the exception of the two (I think) all day events I've had since buying it, I was using it while guests enjoyed themselves outside during the summer. At the beginning of the night, I played toe tapping Balearic tunes whilst people enjoyed being outdoors, then when they are ready to come in and party (usually about 10pm), we get the dance floor rocking.

Quite often, I witnessed what I would call 'dance floor guilt' - people are enjoying themselves chilling outside, but they feel like that they should be partying inside because...it's a wedding. "When's the party starting?" "That's entirely up to you guys. When you're ready, I'll go balls to the wall. Until then, me trying to force you to do what you don't want to do is going to make you all miserable." 99% of folk get it after that. I don't charge extra for taking the S1 with me - I'm slowly coming to term of not judging a night based on feet on the dance floor. It's difficult, because my goal as an entertainer is a full dance floor. The thing is that folk aren't going to swing off the chandeliers during a heatwave, so why try and make them? If they want to sit outside and drink Pimms, then give them what they want. I'm still an entertainer, but I've had to adapt.

That was a random tangent. I need to do a one year review of owning a Prime 4. Long/Short is that I love it. Very frustrated with a few things, but overall, a very worthwhile purchase. When I have time/inclination, I'll dive deeper into that.

Imagine

25-09-2022, 01:11 AM

I keep looking at the Go.

From a business perspective - for me - it makes no sense. I don't do anywhere near enough events that require me to have a battery powered controller for me to be able to justify getting one.

But I want one. I couldn't tell you why I want one, but I do.

As do I!

Having long been a "fan-boi" of Denon kit, I just need one of these in my life....and I have a business case for it as well! Happy days!

And yet...it's £1k I don't want to spend. Times are about to get tough, costs are rising, bookings are getting harder to come by....the business puts food on the table.

I'm looking at it solely as a backup system. If (shudder) the P4 should stop working, it's an easy swap out and would have the same lighting programming etc. - it's a simple changing of XLR's and the party carries on.

For me though, it's likely to be the Mixstream Pro from Numark (Denon's little and cheaper brother). It's built like a toy, it's got tiny built in speakers (why?), BUT...it's the same operating system and a hell of a lot cheaper and at the moment...every little helps ;)

Excalibur

25-09-2022, 10:05 AM

Quite often, I witnessed what I would call 'dance floor guilt' - people are enjoying themselves chilling outside, but they feel like that they should be partying inside because...it's a wedding. "When's the party starting?" "That's entirely up to you guys. When you're ready, I'll go balls to the wall. Until then, me trying to force you to do what you don't want to do is going to make you all miserable." 99% of folk get it after that. I don't charge extra for taking the S1 with me - I'm slowly coming to term of not judging a night based on feet on the dance floor. It's difficult, because my goal as an entertainer is a full dance floor. The thing is that folk aren't going to swing off the chandeliers during a heatwave, so why try and make them? If they want to sit outside and drink Pimms, then give them what they want. I'm still an entertainer, but I've had to adapt.

You're learning Benny. Last night, I had guests and client worrying/apologising that people were outside, not inside. The alcohol dispensing facility ( bath full of water and cans/bottles ) was exerting a huge gravitational force, as were the space heaters and fire pits. They could hear me out there, and no way was I going to get them inside before they were ready. ( The fact that the appointed time for that to happen was after 1am, hey ho). :shrug: These are my people. I live here. A pre 3am finish is a definite result.

As do I!

Having long been a "fan-boi" of Denon kit, I just need one of these in my life....and I have a business case for it as well! Happy days!

And yet...it's £1k I don't want to spend. Times are about to get tough, costs are rising, bookings are getting harder to come by....the business puts food on the table.
Still 7 left on my seller's site. £80 a month, paid off in a year. Simples.

For me though, it's likely to be the Mixstream Pro from Numark (Denon's little and cheaper brother). It's built like a toy, it's got tiny built in speakers (why?), BUT...it's the same operating system and a hell of a lot cheaper and at the moment...every little helps ;)
It is indeed the same OS/Parent Company, and if you didn't need battery power, could be a contender as backup. I had a quick look at one yesterday.

Imagine

27-09-2022, 03:14 PM

Still 7 left on my seller's site. £80 a month, paid off in a year. Simples.

The suspense (and lack of technical support DM's) is killing me. Did the thought of spending that amount of money scare you? Did you purchase it?

Excalibur

28-09-2022, 08:15 AM

The suspense (and lack of technical support DM's) is killing me. Did the thought of spending that amount of money scare you? Did you purchase it?

Jury's still out. Due to miscommunication, obstinacy, and people backing out of agreements, I have currently got one more playout than I really need, and adding another doesn't seem vital. It's a long story, which you will be treated to/bored to tears by/in fits of laughter at my stupidity in the very near future.

Excalibur

29-09-2022, 11:20 AM

This morning, it all made sense. I joined up the dots. :doh:
Wayne assures me that he told me this all along, but I think he's just stressing his credentials as an advisor.

What struck me right between the eyes? The fact that the Prime will run VDJ, thus it's a viable backup. That means the second VMS5 I bought was a big mistake. It should have been a Prime. Therefore, I now have a VMS 4 and a 5 for sale, assuming that my finance deal is a goer. :luck:

Watch this space. ;)

Excalibur

29-09-2022, 10:20 PM

And for those jealous souls coveting a Prime GO, but unwilling to shell out best part of a grand for the privelege, I can now reveal that Amazon are offering 12 months interest free credit on them. :eek::eek: Just under £80 per month.

Barring any hitches, glitches, or zombie apocalypse, I should be the proud owner of one some time on Saturday. :luck:

I suppose that's when the learning begins, eh? Should be " interesting", but thanks to this place, and the lovely boys and girls here, I know I have a support network of people already further down the road than I.

Looks like the biggest step since I went digital around ten years ago.

Imagine

29-09-2022, 11:35 PM

And for those jealous souls coveting a Prime GO, but unwilling to shell out best part of a grand for the privelege, I can now reveal that Amazon are offering 12 months interest free credit on them. :eek::eek: Just under £80 per month.

Aaaaand with the way things are going at the moment, that £80 a month is staying well and truly within the confines of my wallet :p

That said, the ramblings of a certain older gent on a FB DM earlier this evening and a phone call from said same gent this morning have made me shell out £120 on an EXTERNAL SSD for my P4 (long story short, it means the P4 can be kept at the lockup without being dragged home to update playlists and music collections....why didn't i think of that sooner :zip:)

I look forward to the barrage of tech support questions when it arrives :coat:, to which my first response (after the "have you turned it off and on again" one) will be....have you read the user manual? (http://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/denondj/PrimeGo/PRIME_GO-UserGuide-v1_0.pdf) :rofl:

Excalibur

30-09-2022, 07:25 AM

Aaaaand with the way things are going at the moment, that £80 a month is staying well and truly within the confines of my wallet :p
Well Sonny, if you were a government employee*, like me................. :D

That said, the ramblings of a certain older gent on a FB DM earlier this evening and a phone call from said same gent this morning have made me shell out £120 on an EXTERNAL SSD for my P4 (long story short, it means the P4 can be kept at the lockup without being dragged home to update playlists and music collections....why didn't i think of that sooner :zip:)
Due to the fact that the GO can't accept a hard drive, due to having a whacking great battery in that slot, you'd better send me a link to that. :(

I look forward to the barrage of tech support questions when it arrives :coat:, to which my first response (after the "have you turned it off and on again" one) will be....have you read the user manual? (http://cdn.inmusicbrands.com/denondj/PrimeGo/PRIME_GO-UserGuide-v1_0.pdf) :rofl:
Read the manual? No chance, but I have been watching Youtube videos. :)

Excalibur

02-10-2022, 11:09 AM

And it makes a noise*. For some of the things I want it to do, it's undoubtedly a very large sledge hammer to crack a tiny nut, but some things I quite like about it. They have however made an error with the left hand pitch fader. Why isn't it on the outside, instead of next to the volume fader, just where I can nudge it by accident? Schoolboy error there, I reckon.

No tone controls on the mic ( may be some electronic ones somewhere, haven't looked yet ), but it sounds OK on a Maui 5. I managed to select some tracks on purpose from an USB stick I grabbed, I think it seems workable. I have a suspicion that an SD card may easily find its way into the front slot. Not sure why that one wasn't USB also. :confused:

* Why oh why oh why can't it read NTFS? :daft: Unbelievable. :mad:

ppentertainments

02-10-2022, 02:31 PM

Personally I think the Denon and Numark offerings are still about 2 year to be developed. Bought both and sent both back

Excalibur

02-10-2022, 08:53 PM

Personally I think the Denon and Numark offerings are still about 2 year to be developed. Bought both and sent both back

I've only had it for hours. If Wayne can teach me how to create databases/playlists, this thing is going to be a game changer for me. I can however see where you're coming from Chris.

Hard to believe, but already I'm half heartedly looking at the Numark.

Excalibur

03-10-2022, 08:58 AM

For " Wheel" read " Cortex". My poor stoical, long suffering Fenland Friend is currently guiding my steps on the path/fingers on the keyboard, and in truth, it's just like preparing media for the Cortex. Trouble is, they use words I don't understand, and there isn't a big button saying " press this to create a database". :daft::mad:

Wayne is advising me on The True Path ( cos without it, apparently nothing talks to anything else ) and I think I'm making progress. The home PC is slowly analysing the drive I created, and amazingly, a single SD card I have is carrying 90% of everything except Promo Only. Wow!

As I told Wayne last night, I'm genuinely excited by this. A gentleman currently sunning himself on a Turkish beach is saying: I told you that standalone was the future ages ago. Yes Andy, I think you were/are right.

Except for the torture that is Karaoke, so the lappy and VDJ will be around for a while to come, I feel.

ppentertainments

03-10-2022, 03:05 PM

For " Wheel" read " Cortex".

How many years ago was the cortex released ? Apart from the rubbish screen it done the job and really these new machines haven't progressed all that much if you think about it.

DJ Jules

03-10-2022, 04:34 PM

Excalibur

03-10-2022, 09:40 PM

How many years ago was the cortex released ? Apart from the rubbish screen it done the job and really these new machines haven't progressed all that much if you think about it.

...and they both run Linux under the covers 

Cynicism aside, the new machines have WiFi, Bluetooth, access streaming services on the fly and also support dmx without any additional devices. They have performance pads, they don't warp the song tempo if you have keylock enabled, and they don't crap themselves if your file isn't 100% compatible...

Rose tinted glasses off, the concept is the same but the Cortex was definitely not perfect.

Julian

No the Cortex wasn't perfect, and yes it was basic, but for some of us, basic was good. The newer machines have bells and whistles, some of which are awesome, but I think Chris is saying that basically, the new ones are just the old ones with bigger screens and better buttons. In some ways it's a valid argument.

How long were we told that a new improved HD2500 was imminent? I'd say it's taken over ten years to arrive. :D ( And it still won't read NTFS).

Imagine

04-10-2022, 12:17 AM

No the Cortex wasn't perfect, and yes it was basic, but for some of us, basic was good. The newer machines have bells and whistles, some of which are awesome, but I think Chris is saying that basically, the new ones are just the old ones with bigger screens and better buttons. In some ways it's a valid argument.

The current Prime series aren't perfect, but they're getting better on an almost weekly basis.
And to be fair to Denon's devs (as an ex-software engineer myself), the vast majority of the problems I see online are down to what's known as error code ID-10t. Let's face it...even YOU were trying to cut corners last night until I showed you the error of your ways :Naughty: :lol:

As an ex-dev of Windoze base systems, I also compare them to Excel....the majority of users only just scrape the surface of what it's capable of doing (and then they do it wrong :bang:)

And it still won't read NTFS.

Nope, and neither will your car stereo, DVD player, mobile phone (including Apple), washing machine, gas boiler, TV, and any number of other household electronics, the majority of which have Unix or Linux at their core. In fact the only screens I've ever seen MS embedded into lately are the self-checkouts at the store where "every little helps", and they're running an obsoleted version (Embedded XP last time I saw one rebooting!)

NTFS is an MS proprietary file system. Being a proprietary system, it's subject to massive licensing costs which if the likes of Denon included in the deal, would make the Prime series a LOT more expensive.

There are far too many reasons to list here as to why NTFS isn't used. Maybe one day when I've got a couple of hours spare, I'll give you a call and explain them :daft:

What's amazing me though is that I've gone for 26 hours now without a support call!
See...I said you'd soon get used to it :)

DJ Jules

04-10-2022, 06:19 AM

NTFS is an MS proprietary file system. Being a proprietary system, it's subject to massive licensing costs which if the likes of Denon included in the deal, would make the Prime series a LOT more expensive.

OK, I'm curious now. Linux can mount ntfs drives, it's been able to for decades, though the ACL side of things is ignored. Ntfs isn't licensed or even patented by Microsoft. The lack of ntfs support makes me think its a deliberate design decision, probably on the basis that fat32 is good enough and that everybody else does the same.

Julian

Excalibur

04-10-2022, 07:26 AM

What's amazing me though is that I've gone for 26 hours now without a support call!
See...I said you'd soon get used to it :)

It's been 26 hours analysing the :Censored: Drive!

Next questions, how to make a playlist, and how to use Automix ( if that exists on the Prime).

djdj

11-10-2022, 01:08 PM

It's been 26 hours analysing the :Censored: Drive!

Next questions, how to make a playlist, and how to use Automix ( if that exists on the Prime).

I see, no response on here so turn up at my house with new toy and let me show you how to use it lol!:beer1:

Imagine

11-10-2022, 01:15 PM

I see, no response on here so turn up at my house with new toy and let me show you how to use it lol!:beer1:

So that's why my phone's been so quiet today - he's found somebody else to pester :rofl:

Excalibur

11-10-2022, 04:52 PM

So that's why my phone's been so quiet today - he's found somebody else to pester :rofl:

Yes, and he showed me where the " continue" button was hiding! :p It did however take him a while to comprehend that there were a few less buttons on a battery powered portable machine than his six feet wide behemoth! :eek:

djdj

17-10-2022, 02:51 PM

Yes, and he showed me where the " continue" button was hiding! :p It did however take him a while to comprehend that there were a few less buttons on a battery powered portable machine than his six feet wide behemoth! :eek:

Only Jealous I can't quite throw mine over my shoulder like you can!

Excalibur

17-10-2022, 03:50 PM

Only Jealous I can't quite throw mine over my shoulder like you can!

I'm really impressed that you can lift the :Censored: thing off the floor! :eek:

Yesterday, while showing it off to someone, I worked out ( unaided, I might add, no manual or youtube videos ) how to route the mic to the booth output, and how to enable auto ducking. Clever me. :D

Imagine

16-11-2022, 12:24 AM

Oh :Censored:! I think I've found a problem with mine.

First night out last year after I purchased it, touchscreen didn't want to respond so put it away and went to the backup. OK I thought, it's chilly, it's damp (that particular wedding was the only one I've EVER worked in wearing wellies!), it's a snag.

Since then....not too many problems...until last weekend.

The touchscreen has been unresponsive for two gigs in a row now. It's taken multiple reboots (without moving the P4 or the screen I might add) to "bring it to life"
I've had it at home today. SIX restarts and we got there (no moving of screen so can't see how it's any of the connections). Since then (and since it's been "acclimatised" to where it's sitting...no problem).

The first gig it failed on...cold and wet
The second gig it failed on...cold and wet
The third gig it failed on...cold.

Do I need to take a hairdryer to it in the cooler months to make it work, or is this going to cost me money? (it's a month out of the warranty period :mad:). Does this machine prefer the balmy summer nights over being transported in a cold van to the venue and then kick off like a teenager?

I'm beginning to lose faith if it's not going to work as it should each and every time I fire it up!

Excalibur

16-11-2022, 08:24 AM

Oh Wayne, how I remember the frantic use of a hairdryer, to bring CD players to life. I also remember ( before I upgraded the storage facility ) watching as the Cortex units slowly thawed out, and began to come back to normal operating speed. Squeaky bum time, both.

Obviously the temperature changes are having an effect, I remember waiting for kit to acclimatise before turning some things on. I wonder if the use of hard cases is a factor, mine lives in a soft bag. and usually travels in the cabin, not the cargo space. Perhaps this may help. :confused:

Also, I wonder if the movable screen is a factor? :confused: Again, mine is fixed, and might it be expected not to be as susceptible? :confused:

Good luck, and keep us posted as to further problems/solutions.

Imagine

16-11-2022, 04:17 PM

Excalibur

17-11-2022, 11:27 AM

Well, it's been sitting in the house for the past 36 hours.

After the initial problems yesterday, it's worked every time I've fired it up so my guess is that it's something to do with climate/temperature.
Will do more testing over the next couple of days but I can't think what else it could be

I once had an amp that needed to live in the airing cupboard, otherwise it made awful noises, and was unusable. To my simple mind, cold and/or damp sound like the source of your issues. I will watch with interest.

ppentertainments

17-11-2022, 03:08 PM

Well, it's been sitting in the house for the past 36 hours.

After the initial problems yesterday, it's worked every time I've fired it up so my guess is that it's something to do with climate/temperature.
Will do more testing over the next couple of days but I can't think what else it could be

Is it flightcased or in a bag/similar ?
I have found (touch wood) since storing everything in flight cases I have no problems at all - even my leads are in flight cases but again never have any trouble with them.
Everything is stored in a container style storage unit, however I do usually pack my van on the morning of a booking

Imagine

17-11-2022, 08:11 PM

Is it flightcased or in a bag/similar ?
I have found (touch wood) since storing everything in flight cases I have no problems at all - even my leads are in flight cases but again never have any trouble with them.
Everything is stored in a container style storage unit, however I do usually pack my van on the morning of a booking

It's a solid flightcase from OddyseyUSA. There's even a couple of the dehumidifier sachets in there which I forgot to take out when it arrived.
Everything of mine is stored in a container and I've never had a problem (whether left out on shelves as some bits are, or kept in flightcases/bags).

I do the same as you by the way, load up on the morning of the gig, mainly because that way you tend to avoid the day-trippers that like to go along of a weekend and pull everything out of their storage units, touch it, and put it back again but manage to get in everyone else's way :rofl:

Excalibur

21-11-2022, 05:48 PM

Imagine

22-11-2022, 12:26 AM

Well Wayne, I'm hoping that something didn't go fizz inside mine last week. To cut a long description short, I normally feed the Prime into a spare channel on the VMS5. It has previously been brilliant, and capable of hitting the required levels with the prime faders halfway, similar on VMS, and plenty left everywhere.

Last time out, for some reason, I couldn't get the output high enough on the prime, and ended up with everything round to eleven, and likewise on the VMS. Haven't tried since, might have a play tomorrow, if it's a wet day.

Curiously, the last time out with mine I found the master way higher than it normally is to sound loud enough.
I put it down to tiredness and flat hearing aid batteries at the time....but you may be onto something there.

BTW, it's been stored at home all week and it's been flawless on the touch-screen side of things. It's DEFINITELY an atmospheric thing and something to watch for over the colder months.

Benny Smyth

22-11-2022, 12:36 AM

Benny Smyth

22-11-2022, 01:38 AM

I need to do a one year review of owning a Prime 4.

Realistically, I am never getting round to doing this, so here's a quick version:

- On the night itself, I love it. Could very well be one of the most fun playout systems that I have had in a very long time (the previous holder of that honour was a pair of the Numark iCDX - a fun CDJ, but was the absolute drizzling wotsits). Would still love to have auto gain, but I'm now used to being without it. Linking to Dropbox is never memorised, and requires me to log in every time for some reason, but it's very rare that I use Dropbox anyway. The integration with Tidal has been a God send, and has prevented me on more than one occasion from purchasing songs that will only ever be used for this wedding. It looks sexy, lets me do what I want to do, but also challenges me - I've been snapped out of autopilot a couple of times either because it can't do what I used to do in the way I used to do it, or it allows me to do something different. I like that.

I travel with my Prime 4 in the flightcase, and I personally don't have any problems with it. For most of my gigs, the framework is the Liteconsole XPRS and two plinths. I bang a plinth on the moving heads flightcase, the other plinth on the Liteconsole flight case, and everything else on a RocknRoller RT18. Three sets of wheels, nice & easy!

From this aspect, I have zero regrets purchasing it.

- At home, when it comes to prep work and updating Engine DJ, I absolutely hate it! It just feels clunky and I know it's still a young system, but I dread the days when I need to prep or add new music. I want to type a long paragraph about this, but it still won't convey how much I hate this aspect of owning a Prime 4.

- Soundswitch (because, by extension, it's part of my Prime 4 journey, so I say that it's relevant) is...fine. I started creating custom shows for quite a few songs last year when I first got it, but then life happened (if you know, you know), so the majority of my library has had their lightshows determined by Soundswitch. For the most part, you can see what it's trying to do and it's...fine. The problem is that it also has some really odd moments, like using a strobe on the first four beats of a drop - not the build up, but the drop. So far, I have only seen one song that works with, and that's Chris Brown's Yeah X3. For that song, it actually looks really good, but for everything else so far, it's just crap. I'd love for there to be a way to say to Soundswitch "I'm gonna leave you to decide what you wanna do with this song, but don't use strobe!" Oh, and launching autoloops from either the Prime 4 or the Control One just doesn't work. Press the button...nothing happens and I still can't work out what I am doing wrong.

- Speaking of the Soundswitch Control One, it is both great and terrible. The reason it's great is because I no longer have to have launch my static looks (first dance, etc.) from the Prime 4 touchscreen. Previously, doing so meant that I had both lighting and decks squeezed into just over 10 inches of screen - far too busy for my liking. Saying that, you can have up to 32 static looks, but - unlike the screen on the Prime 4 - you have to memorise which button on the Control One corresponds to which look, unless you want add a sticker to each button. Granted, I don't have 32 static looks, but even with the 7 or 8 that I do have, I often find myself looking at the Control One wondering "wait...which button is it again?"

Your mileage may vary.

Imagine

30-11-2022, 12:41 AM

I'm finding this very interesting. I had part the garage converted into a home studio so I can work in peace. As a result of that, my gear has naturally been pushed closer to the garage door.

I've personally not experienced anything like this yet, but now I'm getting paranoid enough to start moving the controller into the studio, just in case...

It happened to me again this past weekend. P4 had been stored at home all week and worked flawlessly. Loaded it into the van for Saturday afternoon's kids party (it was in a cold van for around 4 hours), and BANG. Touch screen non-responsive....again. It thankfully came up 10 mins later but that's not the point.

Realistically, I am never getting round to doing this, so here's a quick version:

Would still love to have auto gain, but I'm now used to being without it. Linking to Dropbox is never memorised, and requires me to log in every time for some reason, but it's very rare that I use Dropbox anyway. The integration with Tidal has been a God send, and has prevented me on more than one occasion from purchasing songs that will only ever be used for this wedding. It looks sexy, lets me do what I want to do, but also challenges me - I've been snapped out of autopilot a couple of times either because it can't do what I used to do in the way I used to do it, or it allows me to do something different. I like that.

I got round the auto-gain thing by spending a fortune on Platinum notes. It's sorted those problems but I know where you're coming from! And the Tidal thing is absolutely AWESOME. It's bailed me out on more than a couple of occasions over the past year!

- At home, when it comes to prep work and updating Engine DJ, I absolutely hate it! It just feels clunky and I know it's still a young system, but I dread the days when I need to prep or add new music. I want to type a long paragraph about this, but it still won't convey how much I hate this aspect of owning a Prime 4.

The synchronisation process is absolute PANTS. My last new HDD took in excess of 12 hours to synchronise from the laptop to the Prime HDD. As an ex software developer, I really don't know or understand why they wrote their own database engine behind the scenes. There are plenty of free and mature systems on the market which would have done the job so much quicker and better.

- Soundswitch (because, by extension, it's part of my Prime 4 journey, so I say that it's relevant) is...fine. I started creating custom shows for quite a few songs last year when I first got it, but then life happened (if you know, you know), so the majority of my library has had their lightshows determined by Soundswitch. For the most part, you can see what it's trying to do and it's...fine. The problem is that it also has some really odd moments, like using a strobe on the first four beats of a drop - not the build up, but the drop. So far, I have only seen one song that works with, and that's Chris Brown's Yeah X3. For that song, it actually looks really good, but for everything else so far, it's just crap. I'd love for there to be a way to say to Soundswitch "I'm gonna leave you to decide what you wanna do with this song, but don't use strobe!" Oh, and launching autoloops from either the Prime 4 or the Control One just doesn't work. Press the button...nothing happens and I still can't work out what I am doing wrong.

I know where you're coming from here. I use the default programming because I haven't had the time to do the individual tracks (it's on my massive to-do list). I find the inbuilt programs to be OK so long as you very fixtures between being Primary, Secondary and Tertiary (the former is more wash, the latter have more "movement").

As for the strobing, that can be disabled!

- Speaking of the Soundswitch Control One, it is both great and terrible. The reason it's great is because I no longer have to have launch my static looks (first dance, etc.) from the Prime 4 touchscreen. Previously, doing so meant that I had both lighting and decks squeezed into just over 10 inches of screen - far too busy for my liking. Saying that, you can have up to 32 static looks, but - unlike the screen on the Prime 4 - you have to memorise which button on the Control One corresponds to which look, unless you want add a sticker to each button. Granted, I don't have 32 static looks, but even with the 7 or 8 that I do have, I often find myself looking at the Control One wondering "wait...which button is it again?"

Your mileage may vary.

Yup - I have a Control One (somewhere...I don't actually know where I left it last). It's been used a couple of times. My biggest gripe with it is that you can't actually label the buttons as you mention. Everything I ever did fell off (they have some sort of non-stick surface on the thing that even SuperGlue's allergic to!). I WILL dig it out again because we now own one of those Cricut thingy's so the chances of cutting some sort of meaningful overlay are a lot more likely.

I feel they're missing a massive sales opportunity here in not offering some sort of "keyboard overlay" which folks can write on and place between the buttons.

My main concern at the moment is the non-responsive touchscreen when it's been stored cold.
I put mine away after Saturdays' party (fully flight cased), went and fetched it home today and ....yup....non responsive until it warmed up (around 30-45 minutes). Since then...flawless again. It's DEFINITELY a climatic thing.

None of my other kit suffers this problem. The storage unit is dry and well insulated. And yet the Prime seems to complain each and every times it's been stored there.

My plan for the winter months is to put it back into it's soft-shell case where it's small enough to travel in the heated cab of the van - a theory I'll be testing on Thursday. Not ideal and adds about 10 mins to the setup time but if it works.....

Excalibur

30-11-2022, 07:40 AM

Well Wayne, I'm hoping that something didn't go fizz inside mine last week. To cut a long description short, I normally feed the Prime into a spare channel on the VMS5. It has previously been brilliant, and capable of hitting the required levels with the prime faders halfway, similar on VMS, and plenty left everywhere.

Last time out, for some reason, I couldn't get the output high enough on the prime, and ended up with everything round to eleven, and likewise on the VMS. Haven't tried since, might have a play tomorrow, if it's a wet day.

My name is Peter, and I'm a :muppet:
There are a lot of knobs on the Prime. One of them is a master volume control. 'nuff said. :o:o:o:o

It happened to me again this past weekend. P4 had been stored at home all week and worked flawlessly. Loaded it into the van for Saturday afternoon's kids party (it was in a cold van for around 4 hours), and BANG. Touch screen non-responsive....again. It thankfully came up 10 mins later but that's not the point.

Ouch mate. :( The subject of cold storage/warm venues is all over Facebook. Some folk claim to never have a problem, others are struggling.
Mine usually travels in the cabin, in a soft case. It lends itself to that. Good luck.

Imagine

02-12-2022, 12:57 AM

My name is Peter, and I'm a :muppet:
There are a lot of knobs on the Prime. One of them is a master volume control. 'nuff said. :o:o:o:o

Ouch mate. :( The subject of cold storage/warm venues is all over Facebook. Some folk claim to never have a problem, others are struggling.
Mine usually travels in the cabin, in a soft case. It lends itself to that. Good luck.

D'ya know what? I've been doing a LOT of thinking today.

I absolutely LOVE the P4 and everything it offers. Plus...there's more to come software-wise as it matures.

BUT...my P4 is only just liftable in its flight case. Add to this that if it's in the back of the disco-bus for more than an hour on a cold day it's unusable for at least 45 minutes (yup...I timed it and I don't HAVE that much time between unloading and starting normally)...I feel we need to part company. I really can't be doing with the "will it...won't it" thing. I NEED things to work.

For the Christmas party season, I'm back to using the MCX7000 because it doesn't care how cold or damp it is...it just works every single time. It'll be backed up with a Behringer CMD Studio which works nicely with VDJ and again...works when it's a been a bit chilly.

I'll be selling the P4 with the 2u rack mount flight case in the New Year. Don't worry though....the plan is to replace it with the PrimeGo which I can easily store at home and transport in the cab of the van where it'll be gently warmed before it's needed.

Benny Smyth

02-12-2022, 01:54 AM

Touch wood (and I know that by typing this, I will jinx it), but I'm still not having this issue as of yet. I hope that luck continues...

I've made the decision to purchase a Prime Go for my backup. It's time to retire Traktor from my arsenal once and for all. As a business decision, I cannot justify buying one because for what I do, it makes no sense. But I want one, and just like the Bose S1 Pro, I suspect that a large chunk of it's usage will be in my back garden while I'm relaxing and having a few whiskeys.

Excalibur

02-12-2022, 07:11 AM

I'll be selling the P4 with the 2u rack mount flight case in the New Year. Don't worry though....the plan is to replace it with the PrimeGo which I can easily store at home and transport in the cab of the van where it'll be gently warmed before it's needed.
I see where you're going/coming from, but a word of caution. It's not a Prime 4. It's not really even a Prime 2. I don't envisage it as a main playout, I couldn't use it thus, as I believe you need to structure your music differently to the way I do. It does offer great benefits, but a main playout? Hmmm?
( Don't worry Wayne, the 24 hour helpdesk for Prime GO users is operational, and very reasonable rates ). :D:D

But I want one, and just like the Bose S1 Pro, I suspect that a large chunk of it's usage will be in my back garden while I'm relaxing and having a few whiskeys.

Benny, as a backup/adjunct, it's awesome. I suspect you will find many more uses for it.

Benny Smyth

06-12-2022, 08:11 PM

I've made the decision to purchase a Prime Go for my backup.

Benny, as a backup/adjunct, it's awesome. I suspect you will find many more uses for it.

This afternoon, my new Prime Go landed and I can't quite decide what I think of it. I have just had a bit of a play with it using Tidal while I sync Engine DJ onto an SD card, so I'm going to reserve judgement for now.

It does almost everything that the Prime 4 does, but makes it a lot more difficult to do it. My initial impressions is that Denon have tried to give the Go too much, and everything I've done so far feels like a compromise - "Yeah, I can still do that, but I have to press this, followed by that whilst standing on my left leg and tapping my head with my right index finger." I think it would be a better controller if some features were taken away.

It's a very curious controller, and I am looking forward to seeing what I can do with it.

Imagine

06-12-2022, 08:25 PM

This afternoon, my new Prime Go landed and I can't quite decide what I think of it. I have just had a bit of a play with it using Tidal while I sync Engine DJ onto an SD card, so I'm going to reserve judgement for now.

It does almost everything that the Prime 4 does, but makes it a lot more difficult to do it. My initial impressions is that Denon have tried to give the Go too much, and everything I've done so far feels like a compromise - "Yeah, I can still do that, but I have to press this, followed by that whilst standing on my left leg and tapping my head with my right index finger." I think it would be a better controller if some features were taken away.

It's a very curious controller, and I am looking forward to seeing what I can do with it.

As someone with experience of both Benny, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of it because it's looking like a serious purchase for me next year

Benny Smyth

06-12-2022, 08:36 PM

As someone with experience of both Benny, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of it because it's looking like a serious purchase for me next year

Are you looking to use the Go as your primary, or a backup?

Imagine

07-12-2022, 12:59 AM

Are you looking to use the Go as your primary, or a backup?

Probably primary playout Benny if I'm honest. If I can sell the P4 at what I want including the flightcase, then it's not that much of an investment to buy one as main, and one as backup.

As much as I LOVE the P4, it's too damned heavy for an ageing gent such as myself. They don't make the P2 anymore (which I should have got in the first place because it's very rare that I use 4 channels). And I'm very much aware of the limitations of the GO (such as no internal HDD...I use an external USB drive anyway). I'm not one to use too many of the effects etc either. It has SoundSwitch and Tidal built in just like it's bigger brother...what's not to like?

I'm already well and truly initiated into the Engine DJ playlist/synchronisation thing (unlike a certain Old Git who has many lessons still to learn on that front) so can't really see any problems in scaling down. The weight factor alone is going to be worth its weight in gold.

Benny Smyth

07-12-2022, 03:52 AM

Probably primary playout Benny if I'm honest. If I can sell the P4 at what I want including the flightcase, then it's not that much of an investment to buy one as main, and one as backup.

As much as I LOVE the P4, it's too damned heavy for an ageing gent such as myself. They don't make the P2 anymore (which I should have got in the first place because it's very rare that I use 4 channels). And I'm very much aware of the limitations of the GO (such as no internal HDD...I use an external USB drive anyway). I'm not one to use too many of the effects etc either. It has SoundSwitch and Tidal built in just like it's bigger brother...what's not to like?

I'm already well and truly initiated into the Engine DJ playlist/synchronisation thing (unlike a certain Old Git who has many lessons still to learn on that front) so can't really see any problems in scaling down. The weight factor alone is going to be worth its weight in gold.

I doubt that my view on the Go is going to be of value to you, if I'm honest. Don't get me wrong, my thoughts are still coming and do with them what you will, but it seems like that we're coming at this from different angles.

I suspect that you and I use the Prime 4 in very different ways. I'm not saying that I am one for effects myself (in fact, I only use the filter and the wash effect), but having four decks is very important to me. Even though my horizons have been broadened as I've gotten older, my younger years were very House music dominant, and I still have a soft spot for it. Being able to throw in acapellas and samples on the fly is part of what I do. At the start at a lot of my weddings, I kinda set my stall out not too soon after the first dance with a bit of creativity, but still suitable for what I'm playing at that time. It's my way of saying "Yeah, it's a wedding and we will be playing music to please your Nan, but I can do some really jazzy stuff, so stick with me."

On top of that, I've always looked at the Prime Go as a backup, whereas you're looking at it as a potential primary. Every time in my DJ career that I've had a failure of my primary playout (which, thankfully, has been very few and far between), my confidence always took a huge knock. As a result, my backups have always had one purpose: help me limp across the finish line. I still do what I need to do, but the level of creativity drops because I'm suddenly not confident in the systems that I'm using. For me, the Prime Go is there to help me get to the end of the night after there has been a huge stuff up.

And for that purpose, it'll do that just fine for me. After syncing Engine DJ and banging in the SD card, I've had a fiddle with it and the word that comes up a lot for me is 'compromise'. I've only played with the controller for a short time and I still need to get my head around it, but I suspect that my overall conclusion will be the same later on as it is now: I cannot recommend this as a primary playout system, but that is purely based on how I work. Your mileage may vary.

The reason I'm at that conclusion mirrors what I said earlier, in that I think it's trying to do too much. If I may use an analogy, the Prime 4 makes me feel like that I've been playing football on a standard size pitch for the last year, but playing on the Prime Go now makes me feel like that I'm restricted to somebody's back garden. I can do it, but I have to change a lot and it's extra work to get where I want to. Creating extra work in a scenario where I'm already busy does not fill me with joy. As weird as it sounds, I kinda wish it's a bit more stripped back, and there'd be no shame on Denon's part in doing that. It's half the price of a Prime 4, and there's surely no problem with saying "Yeah, the Prime Go does less because it costs less. If you want the full shebang, buy the Prime 4." I don't think that I would be as critical of this controller if Denon didn't try to squeeze a Prime 4 into less than half of it's form factor + battery. I also don't think that I'd be as critical if I bought the Go first, then the Prime 4 one year later.

If I don't treat the Prime Go like a Prime 4 and use it to limp across the finish line, I can see the Prime Go being absolutely spot on for me. To do that, I have to ignore the fact that a lot of it's features comes from the controller at the top end of this range.

Updated thoughts coming at a later date after I've broken it in.

Excalibur

07-12-2022, 08:06 AM

As someone with experience of both Benny, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of it because it's looking like a serious purchase for me next year
So this seasoned GO user's thoughts count for nothing, eh? :whistle:

Probably primary playout Benny if I'm honest. If I can sell the P4 at what I want including the flightcase, then it's not that much of an investment to buy one as main, and one as backup.
Serious comment- I'd dearly love to see someone using one of the compact Prime units ( not Mr Jackson's monstrous pic'n'mix gear ) as a main playout. I've grown so used to the luxury and capability of a Laptop/VDJ system that it's almost like trying to go back to a Cortex. with the GO! :eek:

I'm already well and truly initiated into the Engine DJ playlist/synchronisation thing (unlike a certain Old Git who has many lessons still to learn on that front) so can't really see any problems in scaling down. The weight factor alone is going to be worth its weight in gold.
This playlist mullarkey, and lack of track info may indeed lead to me creating some drives purely for the GO, with no duplicate or useless tracks on. Tidal cuts down the need to have all your music on a storage drive.

I doubt that my view on the Go is going to be of value to you, if I'm honest. Don't get me wrong, my thoughts are still coming and do with them what you will, but it seems like that we're coming at this from different angles.
Funnily enough Benny, a Wise Old Man told him something very similar. :D

On t
I've always looked at the Prime Go as a backup, whereas you're looking at it as a potential primary. For me, the Prime Go is there to help me get to the end of the night after there has been a huge stuff up.

And for that purpose, it'll do that just fine for me. After syncing Engine DJ and banging in the SD card, I've had a fiddle with it and the word that comes up a lot for me is 'compromise'. I've only played with the controller for a short time and I still need to get my head around it, but I suspect that my overall conclusion will be the same later on as it is now: I cannot recommend this as a primary playout system, but that is purely based on how I work. Your mileage may vary.

If I don't treat the Prime Go like a Prime 4 and use it to limp across the finish line, I can see the Prime Go being absolutely spot on for me. To do that, I have to ignore the fact that a lot of it's features comes from the controller at the top end of this range.

.
For that reason, I suspect you will love it, Benny. Your biggest problem may be unlearning where buttons are. Denon definitely used a curious layout to cram in as much as they could. ( and for what it's worth, the pitch fader on deck 1 should have been on the opposite side, away from the volume fader, Grrrrr! :mad: )

Good luck both of you, I'm eager to know how both of you get on. :thumbs_up:

rth_discos

07-12-2022, 08:18 AM

Probably primary playout Benny if I'm honest.

If only it had some EQ on the mic, then this would be a contender.

No EQ makes it unusable for me sadly.

Imagine

07-12-2022, 09:33 AM

So this seasoned GO user's thoughts count for nothing, eh? :whistle:

They would, IF you had experience of BOTH units (re-read what I wrote ;) )

Thanks Benny - certainly food for thought. I've slimmed down the P4 for the Xmas party season and it's reluctantly back in it's softshell case so it can travel in the warm cab of the van and fingers crossed not have the "I'm not going to work" attitude it's been having of late.

djdj

07-12-2022, 10:23 AM

I love the P4 and the go both look good and will do the job!
Why didn't I buy them...
Well as a seasoned MC6000 user they just didn't make me say wow.
The sc5000m's and Mixer while VERY F***ing Heavy re -engaged my enjoyment of performing.

DeckstarDeluxe

07-12-2022, 11:59 AM

Well as a seasoned MC6000 user they just didn't make me say wow.

I was the same, I wanted a 6000 but long been since discontinued and so the second hand ones are beat up too. 8000 looked good but no stock so ended up having to get a p4. Zero regrets thougg the size and weight difference didn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would.

Excalibur

07-12-2022, 02:26 PM

If only it had some EQ on the mic, then this would be a contender.

No EQ makes it unusable for me sadly.
I hear what you say/read what you type.

But:

It may not be as much of a hindrance as you fear. It is fairly reasonable, and it does have something I've not had for thirty plus years- Talkover! :eek: I'd recommend a play with one if you could. I foresee the Live version really taking a big market share of those who value performance above badges.

They would, IF you had experience of BOTH units (re-read what I wrote ;) )

Thanks Benny - certainly food for thought. I've slimmed down the P4 for the Xmas party season and it's reluctantly back in it's softshell case so it can travel in the warm cab of the van and fingers crossed not have the "I'm not going to work" attitude it's been having of late.

Hey, I've twiddled the knobs on a display P4 in the showroom!! I've glanced at various other models, and I'd be interested to know how you lads cope with the layout. All have pros and cons. I'm not sure that for you lads, anything is perfect. Good luck to you both, keep us posted as to how you get on.

Benny Smyth

12-12-2022, 05:10 PM

Updated thoughts coming at a later date after I've broken it in.

And my updated thought is a question: who the hell is the Prime Go supposed to be for?

Is it for the DJ that needs a battery powered controller for a ceremony and possibly drinks reception? That DJ isn't going to need effects, loops, or a booth output (arguably).

The Mobile DJ as a main playout? No mic EQs, no level indicators for individual channels, effect options are overkill for most Mobile Jocks, and the faders are just too small to use effectively.

The Club DJ? Similar issues to the Mobile DJ, with the added question of what is the point of having a platter that small on a controller? They're just there because it's apparently a given that there must be a platter. I use platters just to 'nudge' when I'm mixing, and even for the minor purpose that I use them for, I found them next to useless. Some functions are just really fiddly to implement too.

Bedroom/Garden Party DJ? Probably the most likely of the lot, but there are a lot of controllers that are nowhere as difficult to use that will be much more suited to that market.

I think that Denon have created a controller either for somebody that doesn't exist, or in the knowledge that everyone will get something out of the Prime Go, but nobody will get everything out of the Prime Go.

Anybody that can fully use the Prime Go as a Wedding DJ - and get to the stage where it'll be second nature to them - will be a far better DJ (from a technical point of view) than I'll ever be. I cannot get my head around the concept of anybody using the Prime Go as a primary playout. To be honest, if my desire wasn't as strong as it is to have my backup be in the same ecosystem as my primary, I'd be sending the Prime Go back for a refund.

Excalibur

12-12-2022, 06:16 PM

And my updated thought is a question: who the hell is the Prime Go supposed to be for?

Is it for the DJ that needs a battery powered controller for a ceremony and possibly drinks reception? That DJ isn't going to need effects, loops, or a booth output (arguably).
> Holds hand up in the air- Me Sir, me Sir < :) And yes, you are correct, in that mode, it's horrendously overspecced.

The Mobile DJ as a main playout? No mic EQs, no level indicators for individual channels, effect options are overkill for most Mobile Jocks, and the faders are just too small to use effectively.
Only when the Prime 4 decides it's too cold, and refuses to work. :Laugh:

The Club DJ? Similar issues to the Mobile DJ, with the added question of what is the point of having a platter that small on a controller? They're just there because it's apparently a given that there must be a platter. I use platters just to 'nudge' when I'm mixing, and even for the minor purpose that I use them for, I found them next to useless. Some functions are just really fiddly to implement too.
And it's definitely not aimed at that user!

Bedroom/Garden Party DJ? Probably the most likely of the lot, but there are a lot of controllers that are nowhere as difficult to use that will be much more suited to that market.
Except it's the only truly battery powered one? :confused: And yes, that would need battery powered PA to match.

I think that Denon have created a controller either for somebody that doesn't exist, or in the knowledge that everyone will get something out of the Prime Go, but nobody will get everything out of the Prime Go.
Give that man any prize from the top shelf. It's " the Jack of all trades, and master of none ".

Anybody that can fully use the Prime Go as a Wedding DJ - and get to the stage where it'll be second nature to them - will be a far better DJ (from a technical point of view) than I'll ever be. I cannot get my head around the concept of anybody using the Prime Go as a primary playout. To be honest, if my desire wasn't as strong as it is to have my backup be in the same ecosystem as my primary, I'd be sending the Prime Go back for a refund.
Benny, I think you will grow to love it as a backup/bonus playout. I await the post from you saying " I was at this wedding, and they were all outside in the sunshine, so I took the GO and the S1 out and joined them. They thought I was the greatest DJ ever, especially when I pulled off these great effects".

OK, now the pills are kicking in, I must say that Benny has almost summed it up exactly, and he's almost right. He's forgotten the white haired old DJ who mainly uses it to download obscure tracks for clients. Other than that, I believe he's correct that it's a scattergun. Everybody can find at least one use for it, but nobody will ever use it as fully as it ought to be capable of.

I think Denon just decided to shove loadsa buttons on as a matter of course. :D

DJ Jules

12-12-2022, 07:01 PM

The Mobile DJ as a main playout? No mic EQs, no level indicators for individual channels, effect options are overkill for most Mobile Jocks, and the faders are just too small to use effectively.

The above makes me think of the Pioneer DDJ-400, Numark Mixtstream, ye olde MC2000 and countless other decks of a similar size in this category. All the others aren't standalone controllers, don't have a battery and are/were around the £200-250 mark though.

They have definitely made some odd design decisions with the Go. I was considering buying one for kids parties, but then there's the EQ problem that eventually drove me away from the DDJ-SB and there are also no good options for battery powered wireless mics on the market (without resorting to using a 12v powerpack with a mic receiver). And there's the price.

I'm sure there's a market for it, but it's not me :D

Julian

Benny Smyth

12-12-2022, 08:34 PM

Benny, I think you will grow to love it as a backup/bonus playout. I await the post from you saying " I was at this wedding, and they were all outside in the sunshine, so I took the GO and the S1 out and joined them. They thought I was the greatest DJ ever, especially when I pulled off these great effects".

In that scenario, I can definitely see myself doing that. Not to the point of great showmanship, but a chilled Balearic Lounge vibe could easily be reproduced. Clients loved having a pre-determined playlist Bluetoothed (is that a word?) to the S1, so actually playing live would increase the experience for them tenfold.

I loved the thought of owning a Prime Go, and maybe that's the problem: for me, it was an emotional purchase but I'm now using it like it was a business purchase. Saying that, I think the reason why I am so business-like with it now is because I have never been so confused by a piece of DJ kit before. Could the reason that the Prime Go exists be as simple as Denon saying "Because we can"? If so, I want to know why Jeff Goldblum wasn't there to say “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”

They have definitely made some odd design decisions with the Go. I was considering buying one for kids parties, but then there's the EQ problem that eventually drove me away from the DDJ-SB and there are also no good options for battery powered wireless mics on the market (without resorting to using a 12v powerpack with a mic receiver). And there's the price.

I think the whole EQ functionality on a mic is probably a function that a lot of Mobile DJs don't actually need. Don't get me wrong, now that I have it on the Prime 4 it's great, but I survived for years not having such a feature on Traktor, and I had all of zero issues with it.

rth_discos

12-12-2022, 09:18 PM

I think the whole EQ functionality on a mic is probably a function that a lot of Mobile DJs don't actually need. Don't get me wrong, now that I have it on the Prime 4 it's great, but I survived for years not having such a feature on Traktor, and I had all of zero issues with it.

My first DJ mixer in 1997 had EQ on the mic, and every single mixer I've had since has had it (because I won't by one without it).

It's what makes the Denon MC6000mk2 so great.

Bass turned down a bit, treble up, and I've got a clear sounding mic. I'm not losing that control in a mixer.

What amazes me is that in my view, Denon had it so bang on with the MC6000mk2 - why didn't they use that as a starting point?

It feels to me like they have a completely new development team, and have lost some experience and knowledge from previous products.

Excalibur

12-12-2022, 09:43 PM

The above makes me think of the Pioneer DDJ-400, Numark Mixtstream, ye olde MC2000 and countless other decks of a similar size in this category. All the others aren't standalone controllers, don't have a battery and are/were around the £200-250 mark though.

They have definitely made some odd design decisions with the Go. I was considering buying one for kids parties, but then there's the EQ problem that eventually drove me away from the DDJ-SB and there are also no good options for battery powered wireless mics on the market (without resorting to using a 12v powerpack with a mic receiver). And there's the price.

I'm sure there's a market for it, but it's not me :D

Julian
Xvive U3? That's one of my cunning lans. I got one full price, and one s/h off Ebay

In that scenario, I can definitely see myself doing that. Not to the point of great showmanship, but a chilled Balearic Lounge vibe could easily be reproduced. Clients loved having a pre-determined playlist Bluetoothed (is that a word?) to the S1, so actually playing live would increase the experience for them tenfold.
There you go, the Old Git isn't as green as he is cabbage looking. ;)

I think the whole EQ functionality on a mic is probably a function that a lot of Mobile DJs don't actually need. Don't get me wrong, now that I have it on the Prime 4 it's great, but I survived for years not having such a feature on Traktor, and I had all of zero issues with it.
Much depends on what PA you're feeding into.

DJ Jules

13-12-2022, 07:58 AM

Xvive U3? That's one of my cunning lans. I got one full price, and one s/h off Ebay.

Ah, I looked at that and dismissed it at the time as I needed a system that couple support 2 mics into 1 input. And also because it's not cheap :zip:

I also survived a long time without EQ on music inputs and then I had a mixer that had an EQ and I've never gone back.

Julian

Benny Smyth

16-02-2023, 01:59 AM

Thanks Benny - certainly food for thought. I've slimmed down the P4 for the Xmas party season and it's reluctantly back in it's softshell case so it can travel in the warm cab of the van and fingers crossed not have the "I'm not going to work" attitude it's been having of late.

Following on from Wayne's Prime 4 regularly pulling a "Brrr...it's far too bloody cold - I'll need a cuppa before I can do any work!", I inadvertently did a test last week. The Prime 4 - along with the rest of my kit - was in the back of the van for a good few hours before I took the drive to my gig on Saturday. I know that I am tempting fate by telling this story, but what happened is consistently on par with my overall experience - it worked. Not even a stumble.

The fact that it continues to work now bothers me, because I feel like that my issues are waiting in the wings. One of two things are happening here - either there is a fundamental difference between Wayne and I when we arrive on site at our respective events that allows my Prime 4 more time over his to warm up, or Wayne's Prime 4 is a bit more diva than mine.

99% of my events are weddings. Generally, as soon as I get all the gear in the room, I'm up and running in about half an hour. Assuming that everything is running to time [pause for laughter], I'll start playing toe-tapping stuff at 7pm with a view of kicking off the first dance at 8pm. For that hour, my interactions with the Prime 4 is pretty minimal but even with the sparse usage, I don't feel like that the Prime 4 is hanging on me. Would I have the same results were I to go full on button pressing and knob twiddling from 7pm? I don't know for certain because of the doubts that I have read in this thread, but I feel like that the outcome would more likely be "It'll be fine" over "It'll be a pain in the jacksy!"

For me, it really is a combination of head scratching and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Excalibur

16-02-2023, 07:49 AM

Following on from Wayne's Prime 4 regularly pulling a "Brrr...it's far too bloody cold - I'll need a cuppa before I can do any work!", I inadvertently did a test last week. The Prime 4 - along with the rest of my kit - was in the back of the van for a good few hours before I took the drive to my gig on Saturday. I know that I am tempting fate by telling this story, but what happened is consistently on par with my overall experience - it worked. Not even a stumble.

One logical response to this problem has been to transport your Prime 4/2/GO in a padded case ( which in itself I believe cuts down on condensation ) in the passenger cabin of your vehicle. In a van with a bulkhead, this small(ish) space can be quite cosy.
The loadspace is a much more hostile environment in this respect, and I recall many years ago when I had a minibus, in the days before they were called People Carriers. The lining inside the vehicle made it very resistant to condensation, and I wonder if there's mileage in fully boarding or insulating vans? :confused: Food for thought.

DJ Jules

16-02-2023, 09:44 AM

One logical response to this problem has been to transport your Prime 4/2/GO in a padded case ( which in itself I believe cuts down on condensation ) in the passenger cabin of your vehicle. In a van with a bulkhead, this small(ish) space can be quite cosy.
The loadspace is a much more hostile environment in this respect, and I recall many years ago when I had a minibus, in the days before they were called People Carriers. The lining inside the vehicle made it very resistant to condensation, and I wonder if there's mileage in fully boarding or insulating vans? :confused: Food for thought.

Funnily enough, I'm about to pick up a new vehicle and have been wondering the same. I've only had two issues with condensation in the old van and both times were due to something wet being loaded in which led to a build up of moisture in the load area. The solution to date has been to shove a small oil filled electric radiator in the load space for a few days which has cleared it on each occasion so I probably won't bother with insulating it (unless I decide to line the roof, then I might insulate the gap and put in a moisture barrier to prevent a build up of condensation between the lining and the metal).

This is really all vanity though (no pin intended) as I've never had an issue with kit playing up due to the cold. Without windows, the temperature in the back of the van is pretty stable all year round (another reason why I'd never buy a dark colour vehicle!)

Julian

Benny Smyth

17-02-2023, 05:00 PM

The lining inside the vehicle made it very resistant to condensation, and I wonder if there's mileage in fully boarding or insulating vans? :confused: Food for thought.

With the obvious exception of the ceiling and bulkhead, my van is fully boarded, as was the Transit Custom that came before it. Maybe that's the difference between mine and Wayne's experiences, but from what I know about the chap (which, admittedly, is not that much!), I'd be surprised to learn that Wayne doesn't have a ply lined loading area.

Imagine

17-02-2023, 05:22 PM

With the obvious exception of the ceiling and bulkhead, my van is fully boarded, as was the Transit Custom that came before it. Maybe that's the difference between mine and Wayne's experiences, but from what I know about the chap (which, admittedly, is not that much!), I'd be surprised to learn that Wayne doesn't have a ply lined loading area.

Ply lined and indeed carpeted (please wipe your boots on the way in)

Excalibur

18-02-2023, 12:50 PM

Ply lined and indeed carpeted (please wipe your boots on the way in)

Indeed, but my economy model is only half boarded, and the carpet is not permanent. :( I have seen serious condensation form when I have left the kit in for consecutive gigs.

DeckstarDeluxe

19-02-2023, 10:24 AM

Never had an issues apart from photobooth media but that's sensitve to it anyways. Never had carpet though just fully plylined apart from the ceiling.

Imagine

13-03-2023, 11:48 PM

OK, long one but bear with...

Yesterday, I purchased a Denon SC Live all-in-one system. It looks like a toy, it feels like a toy....and yet...
Where was this thing when I purchased the Prime 4 nearly two years ago?

Let's take a Scooby Doo moment and wobble the screen for a second....

As some of you will know, I've had a fairly major problem with my Prime 4 in that it works wonderfully in the summer months, but needs a blow-dryer on the screen during the winter months before the touch screen will accept input. I've even had it stored at home in a centrally heated room (yes, I'm that posh ;)) and it STILL has the issue where the touch screen won't respond on startup until it's turned off, warmed behind the screen with a hairdryer and re-started.

A certain "Old Git" witnessed this on the telephone yesterday lunchtime whilst I fired it up, turned it off, coiffured, it and then turned it back on again. I really CAN'T keep going through the "will it/won't it" at gigs anymore.

It's only a minor niggle, but on something that cost nearly £2k....well I have trust issues.

Anyhoo....another problem I've recently had is that one of my pair of 2012 MacBooks has shuffled off it's mortal coil. It's bleedin' dead, it's bereft of life, it's an ex-MacBook :(.

It served me well. The problem is that its twin is also starting to show problems and being the same age I fear it doesn't have much life left in it before it joins its brother in MacBook Heaven or wherever they go. So....it's time for another backup solution.

I'm entrenched in the EngineDJ ecosystem these days because it works, and works well once you get your head around it. Plus, it also plays nicely with SoundSwitch for the lighting (something which VDJ didn't always do). So...what to buy?

If the Prime2 still existed, I fear it would have been one of those. I looked at the Prime GO, not for me because I really don't need the battery stuff. And then....I found the Denon SC Live 2 and 4.

Now....this is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. At first touch and feel, it really should carry the Numark badge....it's made of plastic!

BUT...it runs the same software (EngineDJ and SoundSwitch) as the Prime 4, I can swap the external harddrives between the two without batting an eyelid, it's a hell of a lot lighter and it's got built in monitor speakers (and they actually pack a punch for their size!)

Yes at first I thought the same as the rest of you...it's a toy. But I went and played with one today and actually parted with cash and brought one home (the 2 channel version as it's only a backup).

This thing is EVERYTHING the Prime series should have been and resolves a LOT of the niggles I have with the P4. Let me explain....

* The knobs and faders have resistance/stiffness on them...you can't knock them by mistake (something that's always bugged me on the P4 is that knobs twiddle too easily and faders get knocked just by looking at them)
* The screen, although only 7" instead of 10" is a LOT clearer (go figure)
* It has a physical button to switch the view on the screen rather than pressing shift and view - it's just ONE button...hoorah!
* Rather than needing to use a Control One or navigate through several menus to get to the lighting control screen, there's a physical button on the side of the screen which takes you directly to the SoundSwitch control panel - goodbye Control One, you're not needed anymore!

I'm still learning the layout of this thing because Denon seem to have gone away from their traditional "mirrored" layout and more to the "club" layout for controllers and being a long time user of Denon kit, this is the bit that's going to take the most time to get used to.

So....I now have a conundrum. As much as I love the P4, mine's a pain in the backside with its startup/screen problems. I'm still looking around to see if it's a manufacturing issue or something else. If it doesn't clear up as the weather starts to get warmer though...it's going to be moved on, only to be replaced by the four channel version of the SC Live.

***EDIT****

Something has possibly changed on the P4. It's been turned off for the past 12 hours and just fired up perfectly.
I've made two changes today

* Updated it to Engine 3.0
* Hacked it's case so that instead of sitting in it screen to the bottom, the screen has been at the top (has it had blood rushing to it's head?)

I'll be monitoring things very closely for the next couple of days...
Either way, the SC Live 2 is an excellent backup and indeed, the ideal solution for kids parties so nothing lost :)