Cancellations & Contracts

[Shaun]

I've heard a lot of dj's talking (and complaining) recently about people cancelling christmas parties at the last minute because of poor ticket sales etc. I always wonder why they (the dj's) don't have a cancellation clause in their contract to protect themselves?. I know a guy in my neighborhood that has had a batch of gigs cancelled last week. He actually has a contract that covers him for cancellations but he's not going to follow through and ask for payment. I asked him why, and he said he doesn't want to "burn his bridges for next year". :rolleyes:

Whats' the point in having a contract if you wont enforce it when it comes to the crunch?. :confused:

[TonyB]

Because you have to treat each situation on its merits. If a client is forced to cancel because of circumstances beyond their control, then I wouldn't chase for full payment if it meant alienating the client and losing future potential work from them. If they made a habit of it, then I would enforce the contract conditions because they wouldn't be someone I would would want to work with in the future.

If they canceled the booking because for example they had found someone to do it cheaper then tough, I would expect full payment.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The trouble is, if you have a Hotel for example and they are selling tickets for party nights and they don't sell enough and have to cancel, would you then charge them, knowing full well that they wouldn't be charging anyone else for the cancellation?

If you did a lot of work for them, it may not be the ideal situation....

[Shaun]

if you have a Hotel for example and they are selling tickets for party nights and they don't sell enough and have to cancel, would you then charge them, knowing full well that they wouldn't be charging anyone else for the cancellation?




Would I charge them?..absolutely!. I only take one client per day. If they cancel I lose revenue. My contract states that if they cancel with less than 28 days till the event then the full balance is due in full. The terms are there in black and white and white and they have the option of choosing another entertainer if they aren't happy with the terms and conditions. If they sign then they agree, and I would chase payment.

I've had this discussion with many dj's on various forums over the years. Many are fearful of enforcing their contract as it may lose them future bookings. If you aren't going to enforce it what's the point of having one?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Would I charge them?..absolutely!. I only take one client per day. If they cancel I lose revenue. My contract states that if they cancel with less than 28 days till the event then the full balance is due in full. The terms are there in black and white and white and they have the option of choosing another entertainer if they aren't happy with the terms and conditions. If they sign then they agree, and I would chase payment.

I've had this discussion with many dj's on various forums over the years. Many are fearful of enforcing their contract as it may lose them future bookings. If you aren't going to enforce it what's the point of having one?

But this is a slightly different situation if you are recommended by a Hotel or venue who give you a lot of work Shaun. I don't think it's as black and white as you're making out.

[Shaun]

I hear what you're saying Daz but i would enforce the contract exactly the same for any client (whether they are a one time customer or a block booking in a hotel or venue).

If a hotel called me up to cancel close to the event dates I would have to enforce the contract due to all the work I was turning down to reserve the dates for them. It is black and white as far as I can see :)

Losing future bookings in that venue would be a possibility, but I would still enforce the terms and conditions they agreed to. Business is business!.

[TonyB]

I hear what you're saying Daz but i would enforce the contract exactly the same for any client (whether they are a one time customer or a block booking in a hotel or venue).

If a hotel called me up to cancel close to the event dates I would have to enforce the contract due to all the work I was turning down to reserve the dates for them. It is black and white as far as I can see :)

Losing future bookings in that venue would be a possibility, but I would still enforce the terms and conditions they agreed to. Business is business!.

My reputation and the possibility of alienating a valued client would overide my desire to enforce contract conditions in an unreasonable situation. Business is about making the most of a situation to your advantage and if waving the balance due because the client is having problems beyond their control produces more income in the future, then that would be the most sensible option to take.

Enforcing contract conditions would give you a short term gain but business is about planning for the future and potential income. In any business, relationships are of paramount importance and the best form of getting new business is by word of mouth. Getting a clients back up is hardly building a good working relationship and is not the way to get them to recommend you to others.

Why cut off your nose to spite your face?

[Shaun]

Enforcing contract conditions would give you a short term gain but business is about planning for the future and potential income.

So why use a contract if you won't enforce it?.

I agree that business is about planning for the future and potential income. I'm as customer orientated as everone else but current business and current income is just as important.

If you have clauses in your contract that you won't enforce...then it's time to remove those clauses or stop using contracts.

I guess in this instance we'll have to agree to disagree. ;)

[Danno13]

The other thing is, if a venue know that you won't enforce your contract then what's to stop them just making up excuses why they're cancelling to avoid paying you?

I know that's a little cynical, but that's business too!

[Shaun]

The other thing is, if a venue know that you won't enforce your contract then what's to stop them just making up excuses why they're cancelling to avoid paying you?

I know that's a little cynical, but that's business too!

I completely agree.

Hotels use contracts day in day out. It's a part of business. When their contracts are breached you can be assured that they would enforce theirs.

[TonyB]

So why use a contract if you won't enforce it?.

I agree that business is about planning for the future and potential income. I'm as customer orientated as everone else but current business and current income is just as important.

If you have clauses in your contract that you won't enforce...then it's time to remove those clauses or stop using contracts.

I guess in this instance we'll have to agree to disagree. ;)

As I said before, you treat each situation on its merits. If you were booked for a golden wedding anniversary and one of the couple died a couple of days before the party and the disco had to be cancelled, would you expect the grieving widow to pay? - I'd return the deposit!

If you done a regular disco for a charitable organisation (like I do for a youth disco) and one week they suffered a burst pipe at the premises and couldn't do the disco, would you charge them knowing full well that if you did, they would use someone else in future. Especially when its local, easy to get to and they pay quite well? I wouldn't only lose that regular booking but also all the spin off bookings so for the sake of £180 I would potentially lose £4320 in lost bookings doing 2 disco's a month over 12 months plus probably the same again in lost spin off work. I know of at least one other DJ trying to push me out and my relationship with the committee is a big reason why they don't use someone else.

The clauses in a contract are there to protect you should the need arise but a little bit of flexibility never hurt anyone.

[Shaun]

As I said before, you treat each situation on its merits. If you were booked for a golden wedding anniversary and one of the couple died a couple of days before the party and the disco had to be cancelled, would you expect the grieving widow to pay? - I'd return the deposit!



Point taken Tony.... I wouldn't expect her to pay.

As for hotels cancelling due to poor ticket sales, I still stand by my earlier comments. :D

[CRAZY K]

To take up earelier points--

1.How do you know the reason for cancelling is genuine---people make up all sort of rubbish to avoid payment. I know--ive been there and got the T Shirt.

The best one this year so far--Im cancellling and I want my deposit back--well actually its not a deposit its a non refundable booking fee and what is the reason anyway? Client--im not telling you :D :D :D :D

Its obvious---got it cheaper somewhere else:eek:


2. Promises of further work so you dont charge a cancellation fee---see above --been there done that got the T Shirt--unless you have concrete work for the future with signed Contract work dont waste your time on POTENTIAL--things change very quickly.

You could be very disappointed and poor.

Im with Elite--a paying gig is a one off --treat each one separately UNLESS you several booked in advance under Contract at proper prices---this is a business not a charitable hobby.

To answer Darrens point--if a Hotel cancel cos they cant sell tickets thats a Commercial risk THEY take not the DJ---if they have a blinding night and make a fortune they dont give the DJ a £500 tip.

We have no chance of having "windfall" evenings--just a standard paying job.

As you can tell I dont do residencies:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thats it--a night off thank goodness---were off to the Indian Restaurant

CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

Well said

I have never had a problem asking for full payment from a venue, and to be honest most pay me in full when they cancel. They appreciate the fact that I have contracts and most of the venue's charge customers when they cancel so they expect to have to pay when it is them who are doing the cancelling.

In my opinion any decent venue will want to keep on the good side of a decent DJ and once they realise that you have turned work away to reserve a night for them they don't really have an argument.

Mossy

Agree with that 100 per cent.

CRAZY K

[Vibrant Sounds]

I had a booking cancelled this week for next Tuesday 19th December.

It was a charity Karaoke do for the staff of the local BBC.

I offered them the gig at £30 less than my usual Karaoke charge of £180 and also said that I would donate £50 of my fee to the cause ("Sparksy's Balls" a registered testicular cancer charity).

The organiser did sign a booking form, but did not return a deposit as stated in my terms and conditions stating they would pay on the night. As it was a "stars in their eyes" karaoke event I forwarded them a full list of my karaoke tracks (about 1400) to enable them to prepare. They then contacted me again on two further occasions to request 4 tracks that I did not have, and I then ordered them on a custom burn disk to ensure they would have them.

I was a little dissapointed when I received the following email:

Hi Eddie,
I'm so sorry to spring this on you at such short notice but I'm going to have to postpone the karaoke until the new year. I know you've probably put considerable effort into this already. I have to go to hospital at short notice next week and won't be here to organise it. Also, hardly anyone is free to do it, despite their enthusiasm. Would it be at all possible to do it in January? I appreciate your generosity and hate to mess you around.

I then forwarded all my available dates for January to allow them to make a choice, and it now looks like none of those dates will be suitable either.

Now I am a little cheesed off, as I turned down an xmas party for that night as I was already booked. I have no deposit to fall back on, and the possible bad press I might suffer if I pursue a claim against a registered charity makes it a lose lose situation. Coupled with the fact that I am already out of pocket for the karaoke tracks that I cannot believe anyone else will ever want to sing, I have come to the conclusion that charity begins at home.

[CRAZY K]

I think some of us said before--

1.been there got the T Shirt

2. We are not running a charitable business for fun

3.Get a signed Contact and a NON REFUNDABLE BOOKING FEE---NOT A DEPOSIT

4.Do NOTHING to help the customer UNTIL you have an indication of intent from them that they are serious and organised---i.e Booking fee and signed Contract.

There are some good intentioned people out there who dont have a clue how to run a function and you could end up being a loser with them if you allow them to do it to you.

Be tough--its a business we run, im tired of people asking me to do a cheap job for charity.

CRAZY K

[Shaun]

I couldn't agree more Crazy K. Good points.