marketing?

[Ricesnaps]

A thread with a difference.

I don't want to ask about disco marketing, but I do want you opinions and thoughts please. Maybe some of tjis will help others,who knows. All I know is that we are a little confused!

You all know that we run a chocolate fountain alongside the disco. It's really the wife's business. She decided a little while ago that she would like to go into the Yellow Pages, so last night a lady from Yell.com came to see us. We listened, took in what she said and let her go without agreeing to anything.

Now, I have no doubts whatsoever that yellow pages is not for me as a disco, but I'm not so sure we know the answer for chocolate fountains. Which is why I thought it may be helpful to ask you guys. If I was to ask you all how to market a disco you would all use your own experiences to answer and I would be sure that most of us would base a lot of our thoughts on what we as disco owners THINK is the right thing to do. But as you aren't chocolate fountain owners, I am hoping the comments and advice will be genuine consumer advice?

The options seem to be, firstly with Yell.com:

1. Paid for listing on Yell.com, with web link, targetted at the phrase "chocolate fountain" in the Norwich target area and maybe the Ipswich one too. Currently searching for this phrase doesn't give you many options. We could also really splash out and get top listing.

2. Add to the Yell.com, small full colour adds in Ipswich and Norwich Yellow Pages - again, there are only about three other fountains in each currently.

3. Just the Yellow Pages

Otherwise, there are other ways to spend the same marketing budget:

1. Paid for listing on Hitched (which we already have)

2. paid for listing on alternative (but generally cheaper) web listing sites

3. More wedding fairs (which is the only place we have currently deffinately got some work)

4. Direct mail to hotels and venues followed up with calls and meeting to discuss recomendation by the hotel (which we are in the process of doing)

Or are we missing something really obvious?

The other thing we don't know (maybe because we are too close to the industry), is actually where our clients are going to look for the service and how they search for the service. maybe "chocolate fountian norfolk" is NOT the generally used search phrase?

Would apreciate some thoughts - call this market research!

You are all welcome to make comments on our on-line presence at www.addicted2chocolate.co.uk

The site is currently undergoing a second design update to remove some of my obvious initial errors. The general layout is not likely to change too much from the way it is now, but I am working on more bullet point text, better pictures, downloadable booking forms / payment and web form based responders - the email address and telephone numbers will also move to the top, not the bottom.

Thanks in advance

[CRAZY K]

I think it depends on how cost driven this business is.

If in your experience so far everyone wants the cheapest going then Yellow Pages will only enter you into a price race and you will have to be cheapest to get much business. If not then maybe worth a go--as I told YP recently--the sort of people who use YP nowadays ( ie not computer owners or have no access to computers) generally dont want to pay the prices we charge, its people surfing the net that are more likely to do business with us.

Yell.com I know nothing about except it sounds very expensive considering what you have achieved building your own site and promoting it.

You have page one listing on Google and Yahoo so im not sure how you can improve on that --apart from adwords type approach--how good that is I dont know--you hear stories of competitors clicking on your adword loads of times just to use up your allowance:eek:

Web presence and linking with sources where Brides and Grooms are looking for your kind of product would sound the most likely option---Catering Contractors, Marquee Firms, Wedding organisers---im sure you can think of a lot more.

regards

CRAZY K

[Dragonfly]

imo adwords is the work of beelzibub himself cost me a fortune per month and strangely since i cancelled my account ive halved the people phoning me up to sell me things??? mmmm...... cant believe i was stupid enough to actually be paying for the privalidge of nuisance phonecalls.

[Ricesnaps]

I think it depends on how cost driven this business is.

Yell.com I know nothing about except it sounds very expensive considering what you have achieved building your own site and promoting it.

You have page one listing on Google and Yahoo so im not sure how you can improve on that --apart from adwords type approach--how good that is I dont know--you hear stories of competitors clicking on your adword loads of times just to use up your allowance:eek:

Web presence and linking with sources where Brides and Grooms are looking for your kind of product would sound the most likely option---Catering Contractors, Marquee Firms, Wedding organisers---im sure you can think of a lot more.

regards

CRAZY K
Thanks for the thoughts Alan.

Generally in the chocolate fountain market, it is not a price driven thing. Generally we all charge the same sort of money and when you consider that the average booking across the industry is currently about £450, I don't think this is a "who's the cheapest" kinda race. we did try an advert in the local rag, but it just demonstrated how little people know about these things as there was absolutely no "I know someone who can do it cheaper", but a lot of "God, how much", which smacks of lack of understanding. tesco's and the mini home fountain have a lot to answer for.

I wonder if the web presence does little to change that. Someone who has heard of them and might fancy one can easily find our site, but if they have never seen one, it still comes across as an expensive addition to a party!

I think the thing I don't know is how and where our potential clients look for and book fountains. We already know that we get work from wedding fairs, but 2 booking a fair is hardly going to set the world on fire and if you then go for the really big shows, you have to compete with other companies. I would guess you type "chocolate fountain norfolk" into google? but how do I know if that's what other people do. We had a couple of people at the last wedding fair say "we couldn't find you on the internet when we looked for chocolate fountains", when quized, it was because we didn't come up in a yell.com search - but is that the norm or the exception?

Finally, if you search for fountains in google, you don't generally find Hitched.co.uk for example, yet since puting the paid for add there yesterday we have trippled the hits from Hitched in one day and hitched stats show that they get millions of visitors. Still confused

[Marc J]

The other thing we don't know (maybe because we are too close to the industry), is actually where our clients are going to look for the service and how they search for the service. maybe "chocolate fountian norfolk" is NOT the generally used search phrase?

See Overture's Keyword Assistant (http://inventory.uk.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/) for search terms used. "Norfolk" is obviously going to be there, but put Chocolate Fountain in the box and you'll see what terms are used. This is an Overture (Yahoo's version of Adwords) tool, but the results will be fairly indicative of overall searches.

I'd recommend a well thought out and well managed adwords campaign. Don't just put some keywords and a budget in and hit Activate - read up about it first.


imo adwords is the work of beelzibub himself cost me a fortune per month and strangely since i cancelled my account ive halved the people phoning me up to sell me things??? mmmm...... cant believe i was stupid enough to actually be paying for the privalidge of nuisance phonecalls.
Not sure I follow your logic here? The nuisance callers are using the same tools to find you that potential clients are.

If you don't want any nuisance calls, go ex-directory, don't list in Yellow Pages, or Yell, or Adwords, in fact don't waste your money on a website and hosting every month - that just makes it easier for people to find you, after all!

OK, so maybe the nuisance callers specifically target the sponsored links (adwords) users, as they are shown to have an advertising budget already, but you could say the same for any form of advertising - unfortunately it attracts nuisance callers as well as those pesky potential clients :rolleyes:

[Corabar Entertainment]

I think the thing I don't know is how and where our potential clients look for and book fountains.Why don't you ask those who call you where / how they found you? We've always done this and it really helps in finding out which adverts are worthwhile, and which aren't.

As re the nuisance calls - register with TPS / CTPS and threaten to report anyone who does bother you with a nuisance call.

[Dragonfly]

good point i also have a "how did you find us/ where did you see us advertised" section on my booking form been very valuable source of info.

[Ricesnaps]

good point i also have a "how did you find us/ where did you see us advertised" section on my booking form been very valuable source of info.
I guess it's early days for the business so the bulk of the bookings have been from wedding fairs and we always ask that question when people call - my own website link to the chocolate one works well, and a couple have been "we did a google search" but generally we are in very early days.

I am certain there is a big market, just want to understand how to tap into it

[Dragonfly]

im sure you have already but have you tried a chocolate fountain / disco package for the wedding market?

[kd_entertainments]

I was going to start the chocolate fountain hire myself, but I did some reasearch and found out that all the local hotels had their own one, and gave it out as part of the wedding package. Weddings would be probally the main target audience for the fountains so that idea went out the window :(

[Ricesnaps]

im sure you have already but have you tried a chocolate fountain / disco package for the wedding market?
Not only thought about it, but have two booked!

Have a look: http://www.revelationroadshow.co.uk/Addicted_2_Chocolate.html

[theoloyla]

I think that Wedding Fairs are your best bet. The reason is that as you say the idea of chocolate fountains at a wedding is a new one and lots of people are unaware of them and/or how much they cost. I have yet to see one at a gig I have done or indeed at all anywhere; so for me live demionstration would be the best way of attracting bookings. I also agree with Dragonfly that linking to the disco site and offering a "special offer" has gor to be an obvious. All successful businesses grow organically in this way - use the success and familiarity of one to grow another. As for the other advertising dip your toe in to guage it but be careful.