unhelpful venue staff & clients

[rob1963]

I had a booking next Saturday for a wedding reception at a venue where I haven't worked before, and the client said they wanted to use my mic for the speeches.

As I don't have a radio mic, I thought I'd find out the length needed, and then get a long lead made up.

I phoned the venue to explain about the gig & to ask roughly how long the mic cable would need to be to use for the speeches, and she said she would have to to some measuring & come back to me, so she took my number. I thought this was strange, as she must have known the room where the reception was, and the size of the room, and where discos set up & where the tables go for weddings - as they have them most weekends.

Anyway, I waited for her to call me back with the information, and guess what - she never came back to me! :bang:

I then decided to email the bride - who knew the venue - to ask HER roughly how long my mic lead would need to be for the speeches, and she sent me a reply just saying "Bring the longest lead you have" Very informative! :bang: :bang:

By this time, I was starting to get seriously wound up, so I washed my hands of the whole situation & passed the gig onto a colleague.

Is it just ME? or has anyone else had unhelpful venue staff / clients...that are unable to answer the simplest question?

:bang: :bang: :bang:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry to say, but I think that's a bit pathetic, passing a gig on to someone else because of a mic lead.

Could you not have popped into the venue or rung them back?

Surely this is all part of the service?

It's not really a big problem is it?

[Twinspin]

Ok........ If the person didnt call you back about the length of the cable needed. Ring them back again and ask them. Its obvious that the person was busy. or she might have even forgot all about it. (It does happen)

also for the amount of cable needed. How does the bride know? She probably wont even know where she is going to be sitting. also when she said bring the longest cable you have. If it would have been me. I would have said ok fair enough no problem.

Im sure the bride will be happy with the length of cable you have.

If you do that many weddings Rob. my advice to you. Would be to buy a radio microphone that way it solve the problem. No long leads to worry about.

I got an shure radio mic last year. (SM58 UHF) been a very good buy and well worth the money. If you dont want to spend £300 on one. there is always AKG and Audio Technica

[BeerFunk]

I would say that if you're providing a disco for a wedding, the bride and groom have enough to worry, never mind the length of microphone leads! :)

I would say 10/15m would be enough, surely?! They can't exactly expect any more than that!

[rob1963]

Sorry to say, but I think that's a bit pathetic, passing a gig on to someone else because of a mic lead.

Could you not have popped into the venue or rung them back?

Surely this is all part of the service?

It's not really a big problem is it?

Solitaire - That wasn't my ONLY reason for passing the gig on, it was ONE of the reasons. I couldn't have just popped into the venue, as it's 20 miles away, and if I phoned them again, what were the chances of them phoning me back...when they hadn't managed it the first time?

It was a wedding for a friend of a friend. Originally, I was told it was a standard 4 hour disco with an evening set up, so I quoted a discounted price.

Then I was told it was to be a morning set up...and the venue is about 20 miles away, so this doubled my travelling time & costs, and meant I now had 80 miles to travel instead of 40.

Then when I was told about them wanting to use my mic for the speeches, it occurred to me that I would have to be at the venue for that - as there is NO WAY I would let people turn on & use my equipment without me being there...so instead of getting back to the venue for my 8.30pm start, I would now have to be back there for when they had the speeches - which was 6.00pm.

So basically what started out as a simple 3.5 hour disco with an evening set up turned into something involving far more time & hassle - which I really didn't need...especially at the discounted price I'd quoted.

As it turned out, I made the right decision...because I had a call for a 50th wedding anniversary this Saturday where the client has been let down by the disco they booked. It's an evening set up, no messing about getting long mic leads and more money...so things worked out well in the end! :)

[rob1963]

Im sure the bride will be happy with the length of cable you have.




You're probably right Twinspin. After all, I've never had any complaints about the length of it before!

;)

[Twinspin]

I phoned them again, what were the chances of them phoning me back...when they hadn't managed it the first time?



Like i say rob they probably forgot first time it does happen. As some venues do get pretty busy as you should know this. When weddings are envolved.

A wedding takes months of planning and work. and as well as the bride and groom the staff at the venue will be doing hours of hard work with loads of different things to prepare and setup not only for that wedding. but for other weddings as well. So it means the hotel will be very busy and they will get back to you as soon as they can.

Its not really like measuring how much microphone cable is needed is top of their main priority list im sorry to say.

[DMX Will]

Agree with the responses so far. End of the day its a mic lead. Did you really need to ring them and ask in the first place? If it's something your not going to use often, then you can easily buy a cheap XLR cable from CPC/Rapid Elec/Most Online DJ shops. I think a 20m XLR from CPC can be had from under a fiver.

If I had been in your shoes, I would have said "Ok, early setup, thats an extra £xx" and "Speeches? That's an extra £20" - You've only got to loiter about once you have set the levels, so no real work involved. I would have then ensured I had adequate amounts of XLR cables (I take with me, including DMX/Mixer to X-over cables etc over 100m in cable length [in 1m/5m/10m and 20m lengths]).

No problemo.

[BeerFunk]

You can't seriously charge extra for allowing them to make speeches!? :eek:

[PropellerHeadCase]

If you have to be there to run the mixer and gain-ride the mic channel when the numpty who has the mic starts clapping or slams it onto the table to clap, absolutely.

You check out how much an audio engineer charges for a single-mic gig.

Always charge for your time - even if it is 30 minutes of audio engineering followed by 90 minutes of thumb-twiddling.

[Corabar Steve]

You can't seriously charge extra for allowing them to make speeches!? :eek:

Why not if they are going to be using your kit & therefore you have to be on site an extra 2 - 2 1/2 hours?

[Paul James Promotions]

I couldn't have just popped into the venue, as it's 20 miles away

:confused: :confused:

I'm travelling from Birmingham to Tenby to Aberystwyth and back to Birmingham tomorrow to spec / quote to provide some lighting. Surely a 40 mile round trip isn't too inconvenient?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Sorry Rob but I would never have called the bride myself as like someone else said, they have enough to worry about. I would have been worrying myself after the call thinking what she was saying about me afterwards, probably not a great first impression. I have a Gemini UX16 Radio Mic which I take to weddings just for the speeches. It does the job and cost me around £80.00 brand new I think. I always carry a set of duracels too so that it's always available.

I also say in my terms and conditions that if they need one for the speeches then I will gladly supply but if I need to be there, then there will be an extra charge. With regards to set up times etc...I don't know what the problem is really. Personally, whenever possible I like to set up in the morning to make my life easier and travelling about doesn't bother me.
Last saturday I had a 40th birthday which was 15 miles up the road. I asked the venue the week before what time was convenient for them for me to set up and they said "Whenever you like, we're open from 9am", so I got up at 9am, loaded the van and went there, set up and came back. Everything all done and dusted before midday easily. It saved me getting all hot and sweaty by not having to set up and then play straight away. Ok, I did the journey twice but it's not that much of a big deal and used hardly any diesel.

If it makes my life easier and more pleasant then I don't mind doing it.

[Ricesnaps]

And people wonder why our industry has a bad reputation!

I am rather dissapointed to read your reaction to what seems a rather pathetic minor issue. Also somewhat amazed at you comments about a 20 mile trip to the venue.

The wedding market is exactly that, a market all of it's own. If you really want to make it work for your business you need to get a grasp of what it all means. I regularly have over 40 mile round trips just to visit my clients before the wedding to discuss the entertainment, let alone the travel to the venue. I also ALWAYS provide early morning set ups - where it's possible to do that I think this is part and parcel of the wedding industry.

And why do I feel qualified to speak my mind? Because starting on the 28th April, I have three Saturday night's free until the end of August (two by personal choice - although i have a feeling that might change). All weddings and all "high class" venues.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

That may sound a bit harsh but I do agree and sorry Rob I am not having a go. It's all about going that extra mile (or 40) for the customer but also doing what's easier for you.
I too, whenever possible, travel to consultations with the customers to give that personal touch...it's part of the job and why I am so busy at the moment. I did years of customer service type roles and have been complimented on my people skills.
In my consultations I always assure the customers that they don't have to worry about my side of things. I will contact the venue, show my PLI and PAT documentation, arrange set up times and access etc etc...If it's possible for me to set up in the morning then I will do.

[Ricesnaps]

And I would add that generally, when I am at a venue I haven't played before I arrange to visit and see the management well before the wedding

[Dragonfly]

Its not the length of your cable ..... its what you do with it that counts. :D :D

im popping in to a venue 46 miles away next week for a wedding beginning of may.

if the response is well im not getting paid enough to drive x miles and check things like that out .... theres one easy way to rectify that. :D :D

I have said on many occasion I carry an sm58 with a very short lead to discourage my mate wants to start a football chant people. but I do also have longer leads or a radio mic which is offered at time enquiry and also on the booking form its self so if its wanted and not asked for ... not my fault. obviously the longer leads do come to gigs with me , for spare if nothing else.

[soundtracker]

Just to add my twopenneth , you may have backed yourself into a corner somewhat with this by charging "mates rates" these almost always turn out to be a pain in the proverbial as they wan't something for nothing, and its difficult to go lumping charges back on once you've quoted.

[Dragonfly]

You can't seriously charge extra for allowing them to make speeches!? :eek:

nope you are totally correct Beer but as said you can charge more for allowing use of your time and equipment to make speeches such as after the wedding breakfast etc.

[Corabar Steve]

Its not the length of your cable ..... its what you do with it that counts. :D :D

im popping in to a venue 46 miles away next week

That's an awful long cable you're gonna need

[rob1963]

Guys - you are all missing the point.

I DON'T mind doing a morning set up for a disco which involves driving a total of 80 miles.....but I DO when I've said I'll do the gig for £120!!!!!

[rob1963]

You can't seriously charge extra for allowing them to make speeches!? :eek:


No Beerfunk - I wouldnt charge extra to allow them to use my mic to make speeches...but I WOULD charge extra if I had to be back there 90 minutes earlier to switch on my gear & monitor the gain...after all, it's my TIME I am charging for!


Sorry Rob but I would never have called the bride myself as like someone else said, they have enough to worry about.

Shakermaker,

I've spoken to a couple of colleagues, who said they would have just turned up with their normal mic lead, and if it wasn't long enough, then the speech-makers would either have to go & stand in front of the disco to make the speeches, or just not bother with using the mic...but I don't have that attitude.

I always aim to do what the client wants, and that sometimes involves asking a few questions. If they don't answer them, then they can't complain if it all goes wrong...although they still WILL!

Some have said I care too much, but that's just the way I am.




The wedding market is exactly that, a market all of it's own. If you really want to make it work for your business you need to get a grasp of what it all means. I regularly have over 40 mile round trips just to visit my clients before the wedding to discuss the entertainment, let alone the travel to the venue.


Ricesnaps...I've been providing wedding discos for 23 years, literally THOUSANDS of them, and I've only ever had 4 complaints...all of them unjustified, so I think I have a VERY good grasp of what the wedding market means!

I'm ALSO happy to drive a long distance for a daytime set up - but NOT for £120!

[Ricesnaps]

Some have said I care too much, but that's just the way I am.
I guess if you did care too much you wouldn't have washed your hands of the gig.

I must say, using the "I'm only charging £120" line is absolutely no excuse. I'm guessing we've all been there and got the t-shirt. I did a "favour" for a guy at work and did his sons birthday for £100, turned up at the venue and found it was up 2 flights of stairs and no lift. So I washed my hands of it, said sod that and went down the pub - or NOT! Unfortunately when you make an agreement, for whatever price, that's what you do it for. Take the rough with the smooth. Did you know it was that far away to start with? Had you discussed the start finish times? Did you agree to include a microphone? Surely that's all part of your original quote?

It's also really useful to make Brides (particularly the Bride) feel calm and in control. I can imagine nothing worse than a call from you DJ saying "any idea how long the mic lead neads to be". Other than assuming the bride probably doesn't have a clue what you are on about, she will now be panicing because the disco's going to go :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: up. Don't think they won't, wedding in particular are the one occasion where our clients go into mega panic mode. It is hugely important to be able to use phrases like "I'll make sure I do that for you" or "I've already seen the venue" and "I've spoken to the venue manager".

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Guys - you are all missing the point.

I DON'T mind doing a morning set up for a disco which involves driving a total of 80 miles.....but I DO when I've said I'll do the gig for £120!!!!!

I don't think we have missed the point here.

It's all about service.

Your first post comes over as if you gave the gig away 'cos of one very small issue.

If they want you there for extra time then explain to them that this will be at an extra cost.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and get on with it.

[rob1963]

Its not the length of your cable ..... its what you do with it that counts. :D :D




Absolutely, Dragonfly!....and boy do I know how to use it! :D :D :D

[Paul James Promotions]

I agree Matt & Daz

[rob1963]

Just to add my twopenneth , you may have backed yourself into a corner somewhat with this by charging "mates rates" these almost always turn out to be a pain in the proverbial as they wan't something for nothing, and its difficult to go lumping charges back on once you've quoted.

Thank you soundtracker - you've hit the nail on the head.

Originally, I was told it was a standard 4 hour disco with an evening set up, and I quoted a "mate's rate" based on that.

I was later told it was a daytime set up, and also found out I'd have to get back earlier to switch on my gear & monitor the mic gain for the speeches.

Normally in this situation I would tell the client that there would be an extra charge, but I felt very awkward about doing this as it was a cheap rate for a friend of a friend.

I've learned my lesson!

[rob1963]

I guess if you did care too much you wouldn't have washed your hands of the gig.

Did you know it was that far away to start with? Had you discussed the start finish times? Did you agree to include a microphone? Surely that's all part of your original quote?




Ricesnaps...the reason I washed my hands of the gig is because I couldn't get the information I needed in order to be able to do what they wanted, so yes - I DID care too much, because like I said, a couple of guys I know said they'd just have turned up with their normal lead, and if it wasn't long enough - tough!

I did know it was that far away to start with, but I WASN'T told it was a daytime set up, and I wasn't told that they wanted to use my mic for the speeches - so I DIDN'T know I would have to be back 90 minutes before the disco in order to switch on my gear & monitor the gain.

It WOULD have been part of my original quote if I'd been TOLD about it in the first place!

[Ricesnaps]

Normally in this situation I would tell the client that there would be an extra charge, but I felt very awkward about doing this as it was a cheap rate for a friend of a friend.

I've learned my lesson!
I'm struggling here Rob. We've all learnt things the hard way and by your own admission you are saying you feel you should be charging more, but you also seem to have had the oportunity to do so and chosen not to take it. Now I know how awkward a "mates rates" gig can be, but surely walking away from it is completely out of order?

I think we would all have a lot more sympathy for you if this was simply a "I've had a bad experience" story and you were still doing the gig. What most of us are a little bemused about is the fact that you have acted this way over something so simple.


Ricesnaps...the reason I washed my hands of the gig is because I couldn't get the information I needed in order to be able to do what they wanted, so yes - I DID care too much, because like I said, a couple of guys I know said they'd just have turned up with their normal lead, and if it wasn't long enough - tough!

I did know it was that far away to start with, but I WASN'T told it was a daytime set up, and I wasn't told that they wanted to use my mic for the speeches - so I DIDN'T know I would have to be back 90 minutes before the disco in order to switch on my gear & monitor the gain.

It WOULD have been part of my original quote if I'd been TOLD about it in the first place!
Even more confused now. Wouldn't it have been so much easier to take a trip out to the venue - I think most of us here do that if we need to.

And I really don't need to tell you why I think you are out of order passing on the gig again do i?

[rob1963]

Ahhh well...at least soundtracker understands where I'm coming from.



The rest of us will have to agree to disagree on this one!


30 replies so far, and not a single answer to my question in the original thread!


Anyone else ever started a thread & then regretted it afterwards?



Time for a visit to the fridge...I hope I'm not out of beer!


:D :D :D

[Dragonfly]

Rob its a steep learning curve I know you have been doing this a long time me to but since joining this forum my show is 10x better than it ever was and my service alot more professional , thats not to say it wasnt before but it has been taken to a higher level. and this lot can be ruthless when they get going ..... Its an experience that all things considered could have been dealt with in a different manner. I was on the recieving end 3 or so months ago take on board what people are saying and act on it no one means to be nasty or anything we just have some passionate DJs here .

This is done and dusted and if the gig is ONLY £120 then as I said in an earlier post its time to put the prices up mate. we all get fed up with being messed about by fussy people but particularly with weddings , its their one chance for 24 hours to be as perfect as it is humanly possible to make it and we are part of that.

think of it this way:

If you go to the Ritz Hotel and order a coffee ..... would you expect to get a lesser level of service than if you ordered a 3 course meal with all the trimmings?.

on the lead front just always have a short one and a long one in the cable box then if something is sprung on you .... its a 2 minute job to switch them over.

[Vectis]

What's the big deal with a 20 mile trip to a venue? The costs of which are tax deductible... it's just your time you're investing in understanding the specifics of said venue for the future good of your business.

You want to try living on a island and having to make venue/client visits by ferry with all the expense and hassle that incurs. Mind you, I make dead sure these costs are all factored.

Also, on my booking forms on the Ts & Cs page I have a 'Fee Agreed : £xxx' box, with a disclaimer that reads "(subject to no significant variation in booking particulars)". Even for a 'mates rates' gig.

[Vectis]

Is it just ME? or has anyone else had unhelpful venue staff / clients...that are unable to answer the simplest question?

OH YES....!!!

[rob1963]

Rob its a steep learning curve I know you have been doing this a long time me to but since joining this forum my show is 10x better than it ever was and my service alot more professional , thats not to say it wasnt before but it has been taken to a higher level. and this lot can be ruthless when they get going ..... Its an experience that all things considered could have been dealt with in a different manner. I was on the recieving end 3 or so months ago take on board what people are saying and act on it no one means to be nasty or anything we just have some passionate DJs here .




Thanks Dragonfly.

I always take on board what people say, and I've learnt a lot from this forum.

I'm not saying anything else on the matter, but I'm ok - because there were PLENTY of beers in the fridge! :p

[Shaun]

Anyone else ever started a thread & then regretted it afterwards?



Most of us at one time or another :D

There'll always be differences of opinions, and different ways people will handle situations. Don't sweat it Rob! :)