Normalizing ???

[Corabar Steve]

When ripping tracks, does anybody normalize the tracks?

Is there any discernable difference?

Is it a waste of time?

[PropellerHeadCase]

Yeah, I normalise. The difference is that the track is ripped at the maximum volume that can be expressed inside the dynamic range available. Ultimately it just means less tweaking volume/EQ between tracks when playing out.

[spin mobile disco]

I dont normalise but I do bring up volume on quiet tracks.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I dont normalise but I do bring up volume on quiet tracks.

I think the trouble is there, if you have background music on autoplay then you may get a track that's quiet and one that louder.

[Danno13]

PCDJ has a gain scan built into the waitlist.. so i just use that once i've built up a background list.. although it isn't always that accurate.

[Corabar Steve]

Sorry guys,I should have clarifed. I'm talking about for use with a DN-HD2500

[spin mobile disco]

NAh im talking about actually raising the volume of the mp3 using software and saving it to the track.

[flatliners]

if the denons are that good i might go and buy one
or maybe a d2

[Corabar Steve]

They are, but I'm trying to find out if it's worth it to normalize the tracks when converting to MP3. This means converting to Wav first normalizing it & then convertng to MP3, which takes twice as long to do. Is it a waste of time?

[PropellerHeadCase]

If using EAC you can tell it to normalise tracks as part of the ripping process so whilst it does take a little longer you aren't manually selecting 'normalise' every time. It rips the WAV, normalises to a new WAV and then compresses via LAME to an MP3.

[Corabar Steve]

Same as Audiograbber then

[Tonsk]

My EAC doesn't allow to rip to mp3, only wav....

Any ideas?

[DK Karaoke]

I used to normalise all my stuff, but dont anymore. This was after I read a teche bit included by most of the software providers, which said dont normalise as it obviously changes the track, and you can't un-normalise it afterwards.

Also of course it makes each track sound the same - same volume level. Some tracks are made/designed to be lounder than others, so its best to retain all features and then adjust with eq when playing.

Martyn

[PropellerHeadCase]

My EAC doesn't allow to rip to mp3, only wav....

Any ideas?

You need to install a compressor and then tell EAC where that compressor is on your PC. Pretty sure it asks you when you install which is the easiest way to sort everything. If I recall correctly you can install EAC with LAME... Maybe grab a newer version?

[Dragonfly]

Just thought I'd resurect this thread , with more and more of us going down a digital route do you normalize all your tracks ? what do you use? what level do you set it at?

or do you just play with the mixer gain on a track by track basis?

over to you.

[djsteve10]

Just thought I'd resurect this thread , with more and more of us going down a digital route do you normalize all your tracks ? what do you use? what level do you set it at?

or do you just play with the mixer gain on a track by track basis?

over to you.

I just rip the mp3 from the cd and then just adjust the gain on the mixer for each individual track, I find this alot easier rather than feeding all of my 24,000 mp3s through a piece of a software to normalise the gain if you know what I mean.

[rob1963]

Just thought I'd resurect this thread , with more and more of us going down a digital route do you normalize all your tracks?

No.

I don't really see the point.

The gain controls above each fader on my mixer are there to make adjustments to compensate for the different sound levels, so that's what I use them for.

It's hardly a problem spending less than a second tweaking the gain control to get the level right for each track.

:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No.

I don't really see the point.

The gain controls above each fader on my mixer are there to make adjustments to compensate for the different sound levels, so that's what I use them for.

It's hardly a problem spending less than a second tweaking the gain control to get the level right for each track.

:)

And if you have a playlist playing for background music?

[Steve the DJ]

If you are using MP3's then why don't you just run them through the free MP3Gain (http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/) after you have ripped them and that's job done?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If you are using MP3's then why don't you just run them through the free MP3Gain (http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/) after you have ripped them and that's job done?

And I'm guessing it takes less than a second per track? :sj:

[Steve the DJ]

Dunno, I don't use it!

As an OtsAV customer my weapon of choice not only has a built in AGC and Limiter it also has its own internal non-destructive RMS normalization for both Ots files and imported MP3/WAV.

:D

[Dragonfly]

indeed i have used mp3 gain and set it to 97db but i still find alot of the tracks having between 1.5 and 3 db taken off them to reach this?

[Sapphire Disco]

indeed i have used mp3 gain and set it to 97db but i still find alot of the tracks having between 1.5 and 3 db taken off them to reach this?


I'm not that keen on mp3 gain, I had some quiet tracks so took them up to
94 db and it distorted them, so I would be careful of going to 97 db I think the max you should do is 92 db.

[CRAZY K]

And if you have a playlist playing for background music?

I rarely leave my equipment unattended (other than one long track visiting loo) or using mini disc which is very good at equalising volume because I record at a set level. Only available on Mini Disc I think. Dont know how effective the recommended programs are?

Otherwise im always in the ****pit--quite often I like to tweak the bass and treble on each track anyway---ok ok thats another thread I guess:eek:

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

And if you have a playlist playing for background music?

It hasn't been a problem so far, as the background music I usually use was ripped from a 70's compilation CD, so the levels of all the tracks are virtually the same.

:)

[music-2-play]

I used to normalise all my stuff, but dont anymore. This was after I read a teche bit included by most of the software providers, which said dont normalise as it obviously changes the track, and you can't un-normalise it afterwards.

Also of course it makes each track sound the same - same volume level. Some tracks are made/designed to be lounder than others, so its best to retain all features and then adjust with eq when playing.

Martyn

Hi, just to clarify on a technical level what normalising does. The highest possible amplitude on a digital audio waveform, is 0 DbFs (zero decibel digital full scale). All that normalising does, is increase overall volume of the audio waveform (the song), until the highest peak in the song, is a 0 DbFs (but audio can be normalised lower, and actually, some very old cd players exhibit problems when an audio file on cd is at 0 DBFs, so it's always safer to normalise at -0.01 Dbfs, or any level marginally below 0).

So, normalising will not compromise the quality of the audio in any discernible way - and certainly no more than ripping to mp3 would.

Still normalisng will not always make your songs louder --- you could have a song that is very quiet throughout, yet if it has one huge phat compressed snare hit at the start of the song that must have sent the recording engineers meters way into red when the drummer recorded it. it is this highest point that will be used as the 0Dbfs peak, and if the original cd recording is not already normalised, chances are the volume of the song won't be raised that much, becasue there is such a huge dynamic range in the record. I'm still amazed how many commericial cds from the 90s are mastered well below 0 Dbfs...I'm staring right now at a waveform display from a copy of This Old Heart of Mine from a compilation CD i got at a fair, and the highest peak of the song is around -7Dbfs, with not much dynamic range throughout the song. If I hit the normalise button on my audio editor, and save it to mp3 it will be 7dbfs louder, than if i were playing it from the cd. I won't have to make such a big gain adjustment when playing it...say...after Mercy by Duffy. In that respect, normalising is a very useful process.

Thankfully, I used Audiograbber back-in-tha-day, with it's normalising function when I started converting all my cds to mp3, so now, even though I play from CDs, they're all CDRs of songs I'd originally ripped to mp3, so the volume is pretty consistent throughout my collection.

I do agree with what others have said, though...it's not such a big deal making a few gain adjustments here and there...

[music-2-play]

I'm not that keen on mp3 gain, I had some quiet tracks so took them up to
94 db and it distorted them, so I would be careful of going to 97 db I think the max you should do is 92 db.

This mp3gain sounds like a tool of the devil :)

[PropellerHeadCase]

Still normalisng will not always make your songs louder --- you could have a song that is very quiet throughout, yet if it has one huge phat compressed snare hit at the start of the song that must have sent the recording engineers meters way into red when the drummer recorded it. it is this highest point that will be used as the 0Dbfs peak, and if the original cd recording is not already normalised, chances are the volume of the song won't be raised that much, becasue there is such a huge dynamic range in the record.

There's something very loud somewhere in AC/DC 'Thunderstruck' as, despite normalizing' it's still significantly quieter than, say, The Killers 'Somebody Told Me'. There's a ridiculous bass and bass drum hit in 'Bohemian Rhapsody' that skews any normalizing, too.

[Tom]

When I used MP3 i just ripped the cd's and left it that. I would then use the trim on the mixer to ajust the volume of the channel. Makes setting up the song longer instead of standing there like a lemon. lol.

[music-2-play]

There's something very loud somewhere in AC/DC 'Thunderstruck' as, despite normalizing' it's still significantly quieter than, say, The Killers 'Somebody Told Me'. There's a ridiculous bass and bass drum hit in 'Bohemian Rhapsody' that skews any normalizing, too.

Just google 'loudness wars', and you find out about probably the biggest problem with modern records today --- everybody wants their track to be the loudest song on the radio, so A&R guys push the mastering engineers to push every bit of volume out of a track -- many professional mastering engineers these days will actually 'distort' the record while mastering, to make it that extra bit loud/turn it into mush. This involves, well, basically playing the record too loud into their very expensive soundcards and recording it, so the highest peaks are clipped off, but the overall volume is increased...just like overdriving an amp, but with an even less pleasant sound...

Compressors and Limiters are used at pretty much every stage of makign a record (recording, mixing and mastering) to even more extreme effect, to get the loudest possible sound. So, Thunderstruck is never going to sound as loud as Somebody Told Me...Actually, I might have a go at remastering it, and put Killers to shame....

Everything is much louder these days, but it's at the cost of quality...For me, the 80s was probably the peak of engineering, and these big punchy rock and dance records that came out then had real energy...now everything is so loud and crushed flat, it just loses it's punch...

[JAMdisco]

--- you could have a song that is very quiet throughout, yet if it has one huge phat compressed snare hit at the start of the song that must have sent the recording engineers meters way into red when the drummer recorded it.


Summer of '69 by any chance? :)