Denon/Cortex/Numark D2

[wensleydale]

I know there are various threads on these individually but anyone now used all 3 and have any verdicts- taking into account both price and the actual unit?

rich

[spin mobile disco]

only the cortex and D2 im afraid. But if dennon want to send me one gratis ill be happy to write the review lol.

[Gary]

There is a really in-depth review of the Denon DN-HD2500 on one of the other UK mobile DJ forums, but I'm not sure if I can post a link or not.

[Shaun]

There is a really in-depth review of the Denon DN-HD2500 on one of the other UK mobile DJ forums, but I'm not sure if I can post a link or not.

I'm afraid not.


Welcome to the site. Why not introduce yourself in the newbies section of the forum!. :)

[Corabar Entertainment]

There is a really in-depth review of the Denon DN-HD2500 on one of the other UK mobile DJ forums, but I'm not sure if I can post a link or not.Still wouldn't give a 'compare and contrast' anyway.

Steve, Darren, Ian & I saw the Cortex and the Numark at Plasa last year and had a demo, and we all bought the Denon! but I don't think that really gives any of us enough info to really do a fair comparison

[Corabar Steve]

It's your own work Gary, you can copy & paste it here (as a separate thread, or on the Denon thread) if you want

[CRAZY K]

I know there are various threads on these individually but anyone now used all 3 and have any verdicts- taking into account both price and the actual unit?

rich

Can anyone afford the luxury of owning and using all 3?

Mind you Spin has 2 of them:D

CRAZY K

[Dragonfly]

Can anyone afford the luxury of owning and using all 3?

Mind you Spin has 2 of them:D

CRAZY K

and don't his 2 equal 1 Denon lol :D :D

[spin mobile disco]

Dennon and a bit surely lol ;)

[Gary]

I saw all 3 up in lancaster about 3 weeks ago and the denon 2500 was defenately the best one.

I play alot of incidental music like during wedding breakfasts and evening meals at gigs and the denon has some great features for mixing playlists automatically and also has a better search method than the cortex or the newmark - you can chose 2 things to search with if you want so you can just get up a shortlist of matching tracks that really match what you wanted - not just ALL the tracks by the artist, or ALL the tracks that are "r and b" - you can ask for two things like all the tracks from the 80s decade BUT only if there genrer is "house" - saves scrolling through mile long lists of single field searchs

how bout a doorstep DJ chalenge.? would you swap your cortex and your newmark for this new denon?

[spin mobile disco]

Might swap the cortex, but not the numark. Numarks crate option is still the best feature I've seen on all 3. I use it at every gig.

[Shaun]

I must admit, I wish the Denon had the crate function.

[Corabar Steve]

Something else for a firmware update maybe?

[scoopd]

What about file formats/relaiability-are they all pretty much the same?

[Gary]

....tum de dum de dum (closest I could get to an innocent nonchalent whistle)

or something better than the crate function in a future free firmware update -

I know that some people see the crate function as an inspiration source for if they ever (ever?) find themselves wondering what to play next, but I find that the 2500's 2-step search either on its own or used in conjunction with either Next File or either the Top40 or Favourites easy-access playlists achieve the same "must remember to play this later" goal, without you having to wade through loads of unlikely songs whilst browsing.

hmmmm, the better-than-crate 2-step search system AND a crate-like feature (but with a less plasticky name)....hmmm more innocent whistling and a few casual flicks at calendar pages....

[djronh1]

hmmmm, the better-than-crate 2-step search system AND a crate-like feature (but with a less plasticky name)....hmmm more innocent whistling and a few casual flicks at calendar pages....

Hmmmm all this for only double the price of Numark.

Without:
Included keyboard & USB Key
Support for reading NTFS drives
Easily accessible front mounted USB port
Power or Reset on front (hope it never locks up while installed in case)
File browser (you must edit tag to mimic file browser functionality)

[Corabar Steve]

Ah, but you do get a nice little Denon USB hub, yes there's only a side mounted port, but the recess it's in you can fit all but the biggest of hands into entirely. Likewise the on/off switch, my 2500 is flightcased & I can turn it on & off no problems.

Keyboards are that cheap these days, getting your own is hardly a hardship (mine is a nice low profile brushed aluminum unit with illuminated keys(very handy in a gig environment))

[Vectis]

My dad's bigger than your dad! :rolleyes:

Just waiting for someone to come up with a matrix of features spreadsheet-style so people can choose the unit that meets their technical needs rather than bearing the flashiest name...

[Gary]

If I had a D2, which is, let's say, very very unlikely, I would pay to have the front mounted power button de-soldered/bypassed (although I understand that leaning punters love to hold down power buttons) and I'd get the exposed front-mounted usb port covered up to a waterproof (and beer-proof) degree asap.

Consider also what happens when you plug a 3 inch pen drive, or usb cable into those flush front mounted usb sockets...you get a 3inch lump which you then have to avoid knocking - the front usb is positioned near the back/top of the numark and the cortex and looks nicely out the way - until you consider that many DJs have their mixer or other controls racked behind their primary cd or harddrive controls. This means that the 3inch obstruction is then in the way of the crossfader, mic controls, effects or cueing system etc, depending of course on the make or model of mixer used.

Oing back to the liquid ingress a moment - as we tend to DJ near people holding liquids...My home pc has 2 front usb sockets and 2 rear mounted usb sockets. I accidently plugged in a usb lead whilst the end was damp (it had been resting against a beerglass (theres my home habits slurred across the 'net again). The usb port stopped working, which I wasn't all that surprised about - however what did surprise me is that my other 3 usb ports also all stopped working at the same time. The single usb control chip on the motherboard was running ALL the ports - when one port took out the single chip, all the usb ports died.

The Numark (and the Gemini/Cortex for that matter) have 2 usb ports - and if one port takes a central chip out that's pretty much the end of the night for the numark or cortex as neither of them have their own built-in hard drive - one of many features of the Denon DN-HD2500 which you "forgot" to list in your comparisons above).

Having a "put anywhere that you find convenient" hub is far more flexible than the front mounted usb "idea" and can be located sensibly by the DJ per venue if required. Also if an external hub does fail - you don't need to send the whole unit back...just nip down to the local shop, or, in true DJ sensiblity, carry a spare hub.

Another point which you missed was the reported sound quality, or lack thereof on the Numark d2 when up against the Denon DN-HD2500. In a side by side test not only the DJ, but even a humble venue manager (without our all so hyper-discerning "DJ ears" ) noted better sound quality from the DN-HD2500 than from D2 - playing the same song.

No wonder then that Numark have started to throw in a £5 usb keyboard and a little keyring usb stick to try to add value to the d2 itself.

With regard to NTFS, it really doesn't matter that much on PCs and Laptops, and considerly less, if that were possible on standalone DJ systems... a 500gb NTFS drive and a 500gb FAT32 drive are (wait for it...) both 500gb and both easily fast enough, secure enough and reliable enough for the task in hand.

Sort out the perceived sound quality issues, lack of internal hard drive, poor background music support (silence isN't golden), exposed usb ports, and cashpoint machine design, then we can maybe talk fair comparisons.

Boston eh? Have a nice day. ;-)

[Gary]

Hmmmm all this for only double the price of Numark.


Being made by numark normaly halves somethings value straight away anyhow - numarks couple of prevous hard disk models have been awful imo.

[Dragonfly]

If I had a D2, which is, let's say, very very unlikely, I would pay to have the front mounted power button de-soldered/bypassed (although I understand that leaning punters love to hold down power buttons) and I'd get the exposed front-mounted usb port covered up to a waterproof (and beer-proof) degree asap. ;-)

don't know about anyone else but the punters i have had leaning over would in no way be capable of summoning enough coordination to press and hold down a button the size of a 5p piece it takes them twenty minutes to locate and focus on a slider then they have to get hold of it :D :D

[spin mobile disco]

The D2 actually has 3 usb ports not 2 like the cortex. And you have to hold the power button 5 seconds to turn off , so it makes it more fiddle proof than a simple on / off switch. Both the numark and cortex actually came with a plastic clip that fits over the front usp port when not in use. Although I doubt it is much more than splash proof, it would I feel protect in some degree.
I think the point behind a front mounting usb was incase someone comes along and says 'i have a song on my mp3 player can you play it?' this means you dont have to locate a rear mounted usb port in the dark when it may be as said ' flight cased up'

We all know that the race has barely started on these units. All of them allow major modifications with software and firmware updates.
As for quality, I use music with cbr and vbr with high bitrate 320kbps normally, and a lot of venues have said how clear they sound. I find them easily as clear as CD on both the numark and the cortex.
Not having heard a denon on my sound setup obviously mitgates the comparison between these units and the denon, but I would be surprised if there is much difference, or that the average punter would be able to tell them apart.

Also I must say that the crate is fabulous, you can take a request send it to the crate for later, you can put songs you know you will need, songs you want, songs that you think you may need ans so on.
I played a 13th birthday at the weekend and made a guess just after setting up what everyone would want to hear for the duration. Took 5 minutes to program in expected songs, and other than 1 or 2 requests later in the evening all I had to do was press crate button, send to deck A / B and it was ready.
Means I had a lot more time to listen to people when they want requests, pay more attention to what people are doing, top up smoke/ bubble change bulbs etc.
You can even program it to auto load on crossfade from the crate. Although I havent yet done this it means you could program your entire evening and than simple step away and let it do it. (wouldnt recomend this for anything other than background at wedding / dinner dance but you get the idea.)

I have great respect for all three companies who have created these products, cortex were obviously the pioneers, numark close behind. And then Denon who looked at the features the others had and the problems and tried to improve on them.
I personally like numarks D2 the most as I am used to using cdn-88's and they are almost identical in operation to the D2. The cortex was my first purchase as the numark kept getting set back. And other than a few teething problems it was a great unit, lightweight, well built, and very simple to control.
Im sure within the space of a year all 3 units will be able to do the same things because of updates.

[scoopd]

What's the cheapest price you've seen for the cortex Denon and D2

[DJ Davy]

I bought the D2 from glasgow sound centre for £450, but have seen it on the net for £400 + carriage. I am old school, having got rid of the vinyl I have been carrying around 4 cases of cd`s for about 8 years! To be perfectly honest I was dead against going to hard drive systems as I prefer the tactile cd`s as I could arrange my playlist by lifting the discs and standing them at an angle. I have started toying with the d2 and using it in conjunction with my cd`s at the moment. I have not yet bought a dedicated hard drive but am using my ipod with it... I am impressed! The search is great, the crate great.... watch this space.....

[spin mobile disco]

Cortex £399 Numark £449 and not sure obout current price on dennon around the £700 mark I think.

[Danno13]

dennon around the £700 mark I think.

Do you know anyone who's paid full price though? I don't think I do...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Do you know anyone who's paid full price though? I don't think I do...

I do, but I wasn't one of them. :D

[Corabar Steve]

Anyone we know?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Anyone we know?

Not that you know, no.

[scoopd]

Has anybody encountered any problems with any of the 3 Glictches/Freezes etc?
Stability is what I'm after!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Has anybody encountered any problems with any of the 3 Glictches/Freezes etc?
Stability is what I'm after!

No problems with the Denon so far.

[CRAZY K]

Has anybody encountered any problems with any of the 3 Glictches/Freezes etc?
Stability is what I'm after!

I think you will find that the Cortex might have a problem with some tagged files--however as a Cortex owner and user I havent personally had a problem with that so far and I think Spin and Dragonfly who also run a Cortex HDC 1000 are going well after initally sorting out tagging.

CRAZY K

[spin mobile disco]

I had a minor issue with the numark, it turned out to be a corrupt mp3, however since this happened numark have bought out an update which actually rejects currupt songs rather than play them. So in all problem solved.

[Dragonfly]

I think you will find that the Cortex might have a problem with some tagged files--however as a Cortex owner and user I havent personally had a problem with that so far and I think Spin and Dragonfly who also run a Cortex HDC 1000 are going well after initally sorting out tagging.

CRAZY K

Agrred 100% I took 4 months basically working 9-5 except gig days getting my cortex sorted and now done 5-6 gigs without one single hitch ok it doesnt have the bells and whistles of the Denon but I really do believe 95% of problems are human induced.

my advice is take time and set the equipment up properly it takes time these are not cd players stick in a silver disc and press play.

[Twinspin]

The Denon all the way!!

[paull]

Does the Denon or any of the others for that matter offer anything different from using software such as Traktor (I already use a Denon 4500 for cd's and a Denon mixer)

[CRAZY K]

Does the Denon or any of the others for that matter offer anything different from using software such as Traktor (I already use a Denon 4500 for cd's and a Denon mixer)

They are USB readers directly reading the hard drive which hopefully cuts out any PC or laptop type freezing problems.

The only reason the Cortex might freeze is because of tagging--it doesnt like things like--The O'Jays or Oliver's Army because of the apostrophe.

Otherwise my Cortex seems to be pretty user friendly( providing you understand what it can and cant read)

CRAZY K

[scoopd]

Just seen the demo of the Denon.can you tell me if you can turn the jog wheel off? Just in case you bumped it by accident whilst playing a track?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Just seen the demo of the Denon.can you tell me if you can turn the jog wheel off? Just in case you bumped it by accident whilst playing a track?

The jog wheel (platter) can be in search mode or scratch mode and you can't turn it off. With regards to the bumping thing - I don't think you would because the patters are quite flat.

[scoopd]

Nonetheless it doesn't seem ideal that you can't turn it off.Is this ok for everyone else?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Nonetheless it doesn't seem ideal that you can't turn it off.Is this ok for everyone else?

Can you turn them off on a CD player then?

[spin mobile disco]

Both the numark and cortex have function to turn off the jog wheel. Handy as when i first installed my cortex i had it to close to my mixer and kept nudging it by accident. Then i found out how to turn it off and its fine now. Both units also have pitch bend on the jog wheel as well as contant looping.

[Corabar Steve]

I managed to knock mine with mic & headphone leads (but these have actually caught the edge of the wheel, not the flat surface). I now feed them through the latch on the side of the flightcase & problem solved, as they now go nowhere near the jog wheels.

As for turning the jog wheels off, I've never seen a system that you can. (have I led a sheltered life? or do I just need to open my eyes & actually read instruction manuals?)

[Gary]

They are USB readers directly reading the hard drive which hopefully cuts out any PC or laptop type freezing problems.
CRAZY K

That's the huge advantage of these professional "made-specifically-for-the-job" controllers, over the humble, domestic laptop. If these types of controllers had been around a few years ago when the hard drive capacities became large enough to hold a decent music collection, I doubt that any professional DJ would have considered bringing a lappy out from 'ome.

One the mobile side for example, every DJ forum has a few DJs using one of the main 2 or 3 "DJ" applications eg: OTS DJ, PC DJ or Traktor, and some of those users will say how its never ever skipped, jumped, froze, errored or crashed.

On those same forums you'll also get numerous members who also have EXACTLY the same software package - but have problems with the lappy skipping, jumping, freezing or crashing.

Something has to be different between the happy users and the ones rapidly losing hair, sleep and customers.

The software applications themselves? unlikely - those are pretty much rock solid, and on the whole, VERY well writen.

A combination of the Operating system, the hardware eg: processor, sound card, extra connected items, BIOS etc, the memory type and size, the hard drives remaining space for cacheing/swap files etc, and conflicting software installs, are all far more likely to create these "His works, mine doesn't" scenarios.

This key area of no mix'n'match issues is a veritable strength for all the dedicated, professional hardware DJ solutions which have launched in the last few months, over any previous way of controlling a hard drive for DJ use.

Similarly, a club DJ working in a club/pub venue with a Denon DN-HD2500, (or the Numark, or the Cortex) installed will know for sure that it will behave exactly the same as any other venues Denon DN-HD2500 (or Numark, or Cortex), respectively.


Nonetheless it doesn't seem ideal that you can't turn it off.Is this ok for everyone else?

The platters on the Denon DN-HD2500 can also be put into "Bend" mode which would mean that if they were nudged clockwise/anti-clockwise accidently whilst the track was playing, all that would happen is a very slight and brief speeding up or slowing down (respectively) of the track.

If you have the "key adjust" feature on too, then the sound of the pitch bend is almost totally masked.

Neither the Numark nor the Cortex offer "Key adjust" (aka. Master Tempo) however...so, the vocals go Mickey mouse, or Darth Vader when the pitch bend, or pitch slider is used.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Neither the Numark nor the Cortex offer "Key adjust" (aka. Master Tempo)

Which is one of the reasons that I went for the Denon.

[scoopd]

But/......................................Do any or all 3 have a pre-hear facility?

[spin mobile disco]

pre- hear? not sure what you mean by that. They can all be pre cue'd or played through mixer headphones. Think you will have to make yourself a bit clearer on that question.

[scoopd]

All I mean is can you audition/listen to a track whilst the other one is playing?

[CRAZY K]

All I mean is can you audition/listen to a track whilst the other one is playing?

You have separate outputs on the Cortex for each side, so you can monitor through a mixer, I dont bother, its ok provided you are happy of course that the tracks are tagged correctly :eek:

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

All I mean is can you audition/listen to a track whilst the other one is playing?
No different to a twin CD player in that respect

[scoopd]

Quite a lot of people seem to put the Cortex 3rd in the order of Denon/Numark D2 and Cortex-why is that?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Quite a lot of people seem to put the Cortex 3rd in the order of Denon/Numark D2 and Cortex-why is that?

I think it's because people still associate Cortex with Gemini (even though they are made by GCI industries) who are at the budget end of the market with a lot of their products.

[spin mobile disco]

Actually I ownly put cortex at bottom due to lack of advanced geatures like crate or constant loop, mind you they have now added contant looping to the unit in an update.