PAT and PLI

[Penfold42]

I have 2 bookings in April (1st two weeks) so went to check the venues out today. Made sure i could get in alright, both up one flight of stairs, not so bad i suppose. Showed my face looked at where the dance floor was, checked power points, took a few dimmensions and spoke to the owner. Checked if they had a music licence - they do, ask if they wanted to see PAT or PLI and they both said 'I dont give a :Censored:'

I'm new to this game and you have probebly heard all this before but is this the norm?

[soundtracker]

Unfortunately so:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Penfold42]

Then why do we put ourselves through this?
I know it's the law but if it's the 'LAW' why don't people insist on this?
I could spend that money elsewhere?

I know i now feel comfotable knowing 'I'm alright jack' but how many cowboy's are out there creaming off what the honest person / proffesional DJ's are doing?

I am really giving some thought of giving my preformance charges an upgrade new or not but there is a fine line to tow.

[soundtracker]

Because as a professional you owe a duty of care to your clients. As far as your charges are concerned, you should charge what you feel you are worth. PATesting costs say £100pa, divide that by 52 weeks, less than £2 a week.

[Penfold42]

Because as a professional you owe a duty of care to your clients. As far as your charges are concerned, you should charge what you feel you are worth. PATesting costs say £100pa, divide that by 52 weeks, less than £2 a week.

I agree with that but my point is -
If people don't want to do PAT what makes you so sure they what to PLI?
£2 is nothing - my charge is what i charge.
But the thought - god forgive - if you really hurt someone due to your fault....i don't want to go there.

[soundtracker]

I really don't care what the venues want. PLI is there to protect me, in the event of a problem being caused by my equipment, PAT is there as a back-up along with evidence of regular visual inspection, to help prove that my equipment is maintained in a proficient and regular manner. I present my certificates on arrival at a venue, and tell the person in charge that they need to see my documentation in order to give me clearance to set up. Next time a DJ arrives, they might just remember to ask the same questions.

[Penfold42]

So are you saying - when i go back to these venues i should present PAT / PLI to clear myself in case anything happens?

Both of the venues are working mans clubs. They probebly have Mr T.Rex at the bar.....:D :D

(Not the singer...)

[soundtracker]

Yes, what harm can it do you?

[Penfold42]

:beer1: :thanks: :beer1:

[soundtracker]

You're very welcome!

[CRAZY K]

Yes, but us it as a positive reason for using your services and promote yourself as Mr Responsible DJ and tell them not to book anyone else unless they have these things--otherwise they are not looking after customer safety etc etc.

Good sales angle for you promoting yourself.

Eventually the message will get through:D

CRAZY K

[soundtracker]

It worries me that we still have DJs who aren't convinced.

[Penfold42]

It worries me that we still have DJs who aren't convinced.

I'm not worried of other DJ's i'm more worried of other people that go to these functions after all they expect a good night out without knowing what goes on.
You may as well go home and stick your fingers in the socket.....sorry don't mean that but that's how i see it.

[Penfold42]

Done and dusted now PAT and PLI.
PAT set me back £80 + vat for 38 items - bargain.
PLI £192 for 5 milllion through DJ Guard.
Everthing above board now...:)

[Jiggles]

PAT set me back £80 + vat for 38 items - bargain.



OOOOOOOH Im soooooo lucky:P
Got mine done for free :D:D My Friend is an electrician :D

[Penfold42]

OOOOOOOH Im soooooo lucky:P
Got mine done for free :D:D My Friend is an electrician :D

:( :( :(

[Jiggles]

:( :( :(

AWWW cheer up at least your equipments safe :)

[Penfold42]

AWWW cheer up at least your equipments safe :)

I'm chuffed but if you can get something for nothing in this game it's a bonus...;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

PAT set me back £80 + vat for 38 items - bargain.


Been PAT testing today, as we are starting to do it in house.

92 items so far and doing more tomorrow....:(

[Vibrant Sounds]

Been PAT testing today, as we are starting to do it in house.

92 items so far and doing more tomorrow....:(

And how many have failed?

In my experience, quite a few lighting effects fail the earth bond test as the cases are hot dipped after painting and then the internal gubbins are installed. The earth connection to the case is then effectively insulated and will not pass a proper earth bond test.

The unit needs to be opened, the earth removed, the paint scraped off from the inside of the case around the earth contact point and then the earth re=instated and the case closed.

I have done two lots of PAT for local DJs in the last two weeks and both had problems with this.

The one I did on Tuesday this week had 10 items out of a total of 57 which failed the earth bond test. They were from various manufacturers. In all cases after time consuming remedial action was taken they all passed an earth bond test(except the DJ Scan250s). Most items were as new or in good condition and could never have passed a PAT from new.

2x Constella Chameleon 5
1x Zoom Powerfog
1x Abstract Hypermoon
1x Stairville Tomahawk
1x ACME Wildtech Fiesta
3x Skytec DJ Scan250 failed earth bond test as complete outside of casing is plastic, but not marked as double insulated.
1x EV S200 Equaliser

Also and more disturbingly I found a serious problem with a Fostex effects unit. I missed the double insulated mark on the casing and so when it failed the earth bond test I opened up the case to have a look at the earthing point.

I was horrified to discover that the unit was not double insulated at all.

There was a single live soldered connection and a single neutral soldered connection at the end of the pc board. Neither had any cover on them and were just exposed inside the unit. Now the case was metal. If the soldered live had become detached or something else bridged the air gap (about 30mm) between the live and the case the case would become fully live with no earth connection in sight. This was a brand new effects unit and quite blatently was illegally marked as being double insulated when it obviously wasn't. A lethal accident waiting to happen.

[nigelwright7557]

You need to cover yourself tho.
If someone trips over some of your equipment and gets hurt then you are in trouble.

The same goes for PAT, if someone got a shock touching your equipment then are in serious trouble.

If the venue doesnt care then that is their problem but you need to cover your back.

[colint]

Then why do we put ourselves through this?
I know it's the law but if it's the 'LAW' why don't people insist on this?
I could spend that money elsewhere?

I know i now feel comfotable knowing 'I'm alright jack' but how many cowboy's are out there creaming off what the honest person / proffesional DJ's are doing?

I am really giving some thought of giving my preformance charges an upgrade new or not but there is a fine line to tow.

I wasn't under the impression this was law! but in all truthfulness it makes sence to have both, and if the venue dosen't show interest don't worry to much if something does go pear shaped your covered!

In the 30 or so years I've been a Dj not once have I been asked for either and I've even done gigs for enviromental heath in my local area and all they were interested in was:beer1:

[Penfold42]

I wasn't under the impression this was law!

It's not but that was posted in April.......i've learnt a lot since then.:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I wasn't under the impression this was law! but in all truthfulness it makes sence to have both, and if the venue dosen't show interest don't worry to much if something does go pear shaped your covered!

In the 30 or so years I've been a Dj not once have I been asked for either and I've even done gigs for enviromental heath in my local area and all they were interested in was:beer1:

It seems strange that people say this. I've probably been asked for PLI about half a dozen times this year. Do you not ever do Hotel chains Colin?

[colint]

yes used to do a lot for churchill hotel group (west end of london) and the hilton chain & one or two others & the only thing they ever seemed worried about was if I was using a smoke machine? But that was a few years ago!

I do agree with the pat thing but think it should be regulated! at the moment anyone can buy a pat tester and set up testing peoples kit without much of a worry until something goes wrong!

I even came across a site a few weeks ago selling them second hand complete with sticker etc! Thats not so good is it?

http://www.pat-training.co.uk/second_user_pat.htm

[CRAZY K]

It seems strange that people say this. I've probably been asked for PLI about half a dozen times this year. Do you not ever do Hotel chains Colin?

I dont work as often as you Daz--average 1 and a half gigs a week say but this year not ONE request.

I have had requests on a couple of Wedding Quotes for PLI/ PAT

Certainly odd that we dont all get asked more often.

Ah well--it took time to ban smoking :bang:

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

yes used to do a lot for churchill hotel group (west end of london) and the hilton chain & one or two others & the only thing they ever seemed worried about was if I was using a smoke machine? But that was a few years ago!



Strange, 'cos the Hilton chain is the one that's asked me for PLI the most this year!

[colint]

Strange, 'cos the Hilton chain is the one that's asked me for PLI the most this year!

I did say it was a while ago, think the last one I did was the croydon hilton about 3-4 years ago!

I tend to stear clear of the hotels now because of the wedding planner/event manager thing (very annoying people) and I just don't have tome in my life for these upstarts!

[Corabar Entertainment]

and the hilton chain
Strange, 'cos the Hilton chain is the one that's asked me for PLI the most this year!We have a contract with a Hilton Hotel. This year, the manager changed and I wasn't sure if we were going to keep the contract. He was in negotiations with another firm but I went in and had a meeting with him, and we have kept the contract. Why? Because I immediately mentioned PAT, PLI, Contracts & H&S!

We regularly get asked for both PAT & PLI, but when we've spoken to some others who haven't asked, it's purely because they don't know the law and the contents of their own insurance policies!

(and before anyone says anything, yes, I know PAT isn't law, but the obligation to maintain and keep equipment safe is the law, and if you haven't got PAT results as part of your maintenance log, what are you going to produce to prove that you've complied with the law?)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I did say it was a while ago, think the last one I did was the croydon hilton about 3-4 years ago!



I worked there a month or so back and they were one of the Hotels that requested it.

[colint]

Got there act together then!

As I said I do agree with pat testing and think it should be made law (and soon) then there's no question and it would also shape up some of the people/Dj's that are not so bothered about the state if their equipment when going to work.
I know at least two Dj's that don't really give a damm as long as the cash keeps coming in, and that reflects on us all!

[Penfold42]

Did a gig with a band a few weeks back......was asked to show my PAT / PLI......they were never asked.......strange that......:)

[mb3]

........ ask if they wanted to see PAT or PLI and they both said 'I dont give a :Censored:'

I'm new to this game and you have probebly heard all this before but is this the norm?



What would your reaction be if you called a Taxi and the driver offered to show you his Driving Licence and the car's MOT certificate?

If you went into a restaurant and there was a copy of the chef's food hygiene certificate in the menu?

If you were to call an ambulance and the Paramedic insisted on showing you his Medical Diploma before treating you?



Most people take for granted that professionals are professionals and have the necessary qualifications, insurances and safety precautions. Of course, that's how the cowboys get away with things...