Disco with a Laptop

[Disco Nation]

I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but here goes!

I could do with some information on what people use with their Laptops when they're out on the road.

External controller (dac2/dac3 etc)

Just use the Laptop Keyboard/Mouse?

Other controller?

Anything else?

I've already asked about a soundcard in a seperate thread.

I'm going to get an external backup hard drive (portable/rugged) to hold all the Songs on, and was thinking of having the more popular tracks on the Laptop hard drive. I've partitioned the laptop hard drive to give me about 28 Gb of storage space seperate from the windows partition (in case I need to re-install windows) so the songs will still be there if I need to rebuild windows. I was also going to ghost the windows installation to the data partition to speed up the rebuild if needed (also keep an image on the external - just in case).
I've installed windows and nothing else (except the updates of course), is there anything else I need or should install?


Dell inspiron 4150
2ghz mobile P4
512mb Ram
40Gb Hard Drive

Thanks

[Danno13]

I use the Numark DMC-1 controller. I have the Numark cm200usb mixer, so soundcards are built inside that.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but here goes!

I could do with some information on what people use with their Laptops when they're out on the road.

External controller (dac2/dac3 etc)

Just use the Laptop Keyboard/Mouse?

Other controller?

Anything else?

I've already asked about a soundcard in a seperate thread.

I'm going to get an external backup hard drive (portable/rugged) to hold all the Songs on, and was thinking of having the more popular tracks on the Laptop hard drive. I've partitioned the laptop hard drive to give me about 28 Gb of storage space seperate from the windows partition (in case I need to re-install windows) so the songs will still be there if I need to rebuild windows. I was also going to ghost the windows installation to the data partition to speed up the rebuild if needed (also keep an image on the external - just in case).
I've installed windows and nothing else (except the updates of course), is there anything else I need or should install?


Dell inspiron 4150
2ghz mobile P4
512mb Ram
40Gb Hard Drive

Thanks


You might want another stick of ram depnding on what software you're going to use.

I use DAC-2s and couldn't live without them to be honest.

I've never used an external keyboard or mouse though.

As mentioned in the other thread, you may or may not (depending on your laptop) need ground loop isolators.

Have you run the laptop through a mixer and amp yet?

[Candybeatdiscos]

I use a program called atomix, put the laptop through a seperate channel on my mixer so that i keep my cd players handy with a few select CD's should my laptop pack in.

I have 512mb ram in a Acer laptop and have a ground loop isolater as daz says, at the moment i have no seperate soundcard although will go for the maya44.

Also i have a 500gb external drive - nothing kept on the laptop at all apart from windows lol

[flatliners]

i use a dell optiplex because its low profile and fits into my rack case or will do and its connected up to my bheringer 1622fx mixer i am gonna fix a fixing mount for the tft monitor in the back of the flight case i use virtual dj also have sam party dj and am looking maybe to get a pc dj controller either elk xp10 or the numark ,vestax or the m audio xponent has anyone used any of these and are they any good i like the look of the exponent www.djmag.com/index.php?op=technology&story=djtech052

[soundscapes]

You might want another stick of ram depnding on what software you're going to use.

I use DAC-2s and couldn't live without them to be honest.

I've never used an external keyboard or mouse though.

As mentioned in the other thread, you may or may not (depending on your laptop) need ground loop isolators.

Have you run the laptop through a mixer and amp yet?

and of course a digital licence and sg6 in order to legally rip your collection.:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And permission from all the record labels too.

Are you going to post something constructive tonight Simon rather than trying to play devil's advocate all the time?

[soundscapes]

how was that not constructive ? nobody is trying to play devils advocate, im just pointing out that a licence is required.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

how was that not constructive ? nobody is trying to play devils advocate, im just pointing out that a licence is required.

But everyone knows that and most people know the problems we are having getting the MCPS and PPL to come out with the solution.

When the PPL bought their licence out, they had an uptake of 120.

There are tens of thousands of DJs using a computer or laptop in this country, and even more now that Denon has launched it's media reader.

[Disco Nation]

and of course a digital licence and sg6 in order to legally rip your collection.:D


I'm not going out on the road with it just yet. I want to make sure everything works how I hope it will. It will go through a rigorous testing phase at home before I would feel comfortable using it live!

Then (and only then) I will look into the legalities of everything as there's no point in forking out hard earned cash if you find out it's not right for you!

Thanks

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not going out on the road with it just yet.

And as it stands, the BPI made a statement to say that although it isn't a legal procedure, they will not pursue anyone who wants to rip CDs onto their PC.

[soundscapes]

do you have a link to this please ?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

do you have a link to this please ?

Have a look here http://djlicence.org.uk/

[soundscapes]

For personal use, DJs can copy music with impunity in the same way as any other member of the general public, but when the copied music is for commercial use - ie. DJ'ing - then a licence must be purchased. ?????????????????????????????????

[Corabar Entertainment]

But because the licences that were originally brought out were done so without consultation with DJs (and, it would appear, without the relevant authorities even talking to each other), as I understand it, even the authorities themselves recognise that they are unworkable and are working on 'new' licences.

I understand your point of view Simon, but surely you must agree that there is a vast difference between a DJ using music that was legitimately sourced and then ripped, and a DJ using music that was illegally sourced in the first place?

[soundscapes]

fact remains that there are licences in place, unworkable or otherwise.

[Corabar Entertainment]

But they are licences that don't allow you to do what they were supposed to..... you may as well just buy any licence for anything!

...but you didn't say - don't you agree that there is a difference between the 2 scenarios I gave?

[soundscapes]

yes there is a difference. but even if you own the original cds you still need the licence so both ways are illegal without the licence.

[Corabar Entertainment]

But that's a little bit like saying you need to buy a dog licence to keep a canary! The current licences still won't make it legal!!!

I do very much see your point Simon, and to a large extent I agree with you: it is a very sorry state of affairs the way things are at the moment.

However, most reputable DJs using digital playback are waiting patiently for the licence so that they CAN sort out all the issues that surround this.... don't forget, it was the LWP who approached the authorities to try and sort this out, not the other way round!

[Thames Valley Discos]

I never really understood any of this. After all if i buy a cd, i should be allowed to do what i like with it. Copy it, rip it, so long as i dont sell it i cant see an issue.
the way things are going with all these requirements, PAT, PLI, Digital licences,Original cd purchases,Petrol costs,Tax,Vat, etc etc it will be too expensive to even run a so called mobile disco

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I never really understood any of this. After all if i buy a cd, i should be allowed to do what i like with it. Copy it, rip it, so long as i dont sell it i cant see an issue.
the way things are going with all these requirements, PAT, PLI, Digital licences,Original cd purchases,Petrol costs,Tax,Vat, etc etc it will be too expensive to even run a so called mobile disco

I really don't see why people say that. Adjust your charges accordingly. It's like saying you can't be a painter and decorator 'cos paint is too expensive.

You don't own the recording Paul. You own the round silver platter.

If you make a copy to whatever format then royalties are due.

Unfortunate, but true.

[Thames Valley Discos]

I really don't see why people say that. Adjust your charges accordingly. It's like saying you can't be a painter and decorator 'cos paint is too expensive.

You don't own the recording Paul. You own the round silver platter.

If you make a copy to whatever format then royalties are due.

Unfortunate, but true.
Then why do you not pay them?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Then why do you not pay them?

Because there isnt a licence properly sorted to do that yet that works for DJs.

[Corabar Entertainment]

The only issue really is the fact that you end up paying twice if you want to go 'digital' - ie You didn't really want the CD in the first place.... it is just the medium you used to transfer the track to the hard drive (a bit like software: you can either buy the software on CD-ROM, or download it). The difference being, of course, is that you don't really have a viable alternative where music is concerned - you HAVE to make a copy whether you want to or not, because the formats available for purchase are not usable in the form in which you have purchased them.

[Thames Valley Discos]

Yep, but hand on heart, do you really think that a fair system will ever be developed?
Will the guy who does gigs every night of the week 52 weeks of the year pay the same as a guy who does one gig a month?
Will the guy with 50000 tracks in MP3 pay the same as the guy with 1000?
Cant see it working myself.

When i say guy, it could be a Lass:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yep, but hand on heart, do you really think that a fair system will ever be developed?
Will the guy who does gigs every night of the week 52 weeks of the year pay the same as a guy who does one gig a month?
Will the guy with 50000 tracks in MP3 pay the same as the guy with 1000?
Cant see it working myself.

Everyone has the ability to make money from what we do.

The amount of money they make is up to them, so why should it be different for anyone?

[Thames Valley Discos]

I really don't see why people say that. Adjust your charges accordingly. .

Very few jobs these day have pay increases above inflation though.
Soon people will do their own music as they wont afford people like us

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And also, everyone has a TV licence - do you suppose it would be fair if the BBC charged people who watched more TV a larger amount?


Very few jobs these day have pay increases above inflation though.
Soon people will do their own music as they wont afford people like us

Perhaps you are in the wrong business then?

You are a self employed DJ and can charge whatever you feel is necessary.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Very few jobs these day have pay increases above inflation though.But you are confusing 'pay' (as in salary) here, with end cost to customer.

If the price of oil goes up, the price of petrol goes up..... that has nothing to do with how much the people in the petrol station earn!

[Thames Valley Discos]

Everyone has the ability to make money from what we do.

The amount of money they make is up to them, so why should it be different for anyone?

So someone who rips say 100 tracks to mp3 should pay the same as the person who rips 50000 tracks.
If so, this will never work, because the person who only rips 100 tracks will not pay.


But you are confusing 'pay' (as in salary) here, with end cost to customer.

If the price of oil goes up, the price of petrol goes up..... that has nothing to do with how much the people in the petrol station earn!
But inflation does.


Perhaps you are in the wrong business then?

.
Which one would that be?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

So someone who rips say 100 tracks to mp3 should pay the same as the person who rips 50000 tracks.
If so, this will never work, because the person who only rips 100 tracks will not pay.

And what makes you think that the person who says they have only ripped 100 tracks is being totally honest?

Honestly, people have got so many opinons about this and yet there were only a few of us who were prepared to get off our backsides and do something.

Lots of people have lots of opinions on forums but that's as far as it goes.

Where are the thousands of DJs who have lobbied the relevant authorities?

Nowhere.

The licensing working party has a website for opinons on this and do you know how many members we have? Not many, because people can't be bothered to post or be vaguely interested.

This is all very well, but if you or anyone else is intersted in this, then do something about it.


Which one would that be?

You tell me.

[Thames Valley Discos]

And what makes you think that the person who says they have only ripped 100 tracks is being totally honest?

.
Well if they are not honest, it kind of defeats having a license.
And if there were more hours in a week, id be more than happy to help.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well if they are not honest, it kind of defeats having a license.

Not really, as the license that was proposed was going to be self policing.

How do you think that anyone is going to check how many tracks you have?


And if there were more hours in a week, id be more than happy to help.

Which is always the excuse, that comes from everyone.

If you have a vested interest in something, then you'd make time surely?

[Thames Valley Discos]

You tell me.

Thankfully i have a few other interests where money is concerned.
But as for all the regs around djs and discos. I have two local pubs. Both of which have live bands throughout the week.
All are paid cash in hand(fact) none of whom have PLI, nor PAT checks.
We are far better in complying with rules and regs than most.


Which is always the excuse, that comes from everyone.

If you have a vested interest in something, then you'd make time surely?

With 3 kids, no grandparents to help, other business interests.. i really dont. Unless......
You want to baby sit?:D


Not really, as the license that was proposed was going to be self policing.

How do you think that anyone is going to check how many tracks you have?

Spot checks. They would have the software to plug into your pc and scan your hard drive.
If you say you have 100 tracks but they find 50000, then you get a big fine.

Or make it so cheap that we all pay it because we think its right and a fair price for all.

[Corabar Steve]

Paul, could you use either the multi quote buttons or the edit button (as appropriate) please

[Corabar Entertainment]

2 things spring to mind with that suggestion Paul:-

1. The cost of the licences would be higher to cover the salaries of all these inspectors, and

2. Whilst it may be possible to plug into your laptop in the middle of a gig to check the contents of a hard drive, I can't see how this would be possible with the new hard drive controllers around, so short of stopping your show to check, it couldn't be done!

[Thames Valley Discos]

Paul, could you use either the multi quote buttons or the edit button (as appropriate) please

Think you,ll find i,m not the only guilty one in this thread.


Think you,ll find i,m not the only guilty one in this thread.


2 things spring to mind with that suggestion Paul:-

1. The cost of the licences would be higher to cover the salaries of all these inspectors, and

2. Whilst it may be possible to plug into your laptop in the middle of a gig to check the contents of a hard drive, I can't see how this would be possible with the new hard drive controllers around, so short of stopping your show to check, it couldn't be done!

Anything is possible. There are loads of ways this could be done if they wanted to.
Umm cant get multi quote right.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Think you,ll find i,m not the only guilty one in this thread.

That's because as I was answering one post another one was posted, which I answered.

[Corabar Steve]

& I am about to attend to that.

I am doing about 4 things at once & am only visiting the forum every other few minutes.

Just trying to make the thread easier to read

[Thames Valley Discos]

With technology the way it is today. You could be issued with a dongle that plugs into your pc.
This would know what you have on your pc. Once a week you have to connect the dongle only to home pc and upload information to the relavant people.
At any point they could have an inspector travelling hotels of a night.
He can access that dongle remotely while you are doing a disco..
If the information does not match their database, you get a visit there and then, if OK the guy moves on.
You will never know if they are there if legal.
If they get no response then they no you have no dongle, either illegal or playing Cds and no pc.
Lots of other ways to do this.

The dongle would be your license.
It could hold information on how long you gigged, how often, how many tracks and bill according to this information.
They would even know what tracks you play and can reward those artists/writers

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

With technology the way it is today. You could be issued with a dongle that plugs into your pc.
This would know what you have on your pc. Once a week you have to connect the dongle only to home pc and upload information to the relavant people.
At any point they could have an inspector travelling hotels of a night.
He can access that dongle remotely while you are doing a disco..
If the information does not match their database, you get a visit there and then, if OK the guy moves on.
You will never know if they are there if legal.
If they get no response then they no you have no dongle, either illegal or playing Cds and no pc.
Lots of other ways to do this.

And he use of all this technology would push the price up even further Paul.

They don't have the manpower to do checks - they've told us that.

Some good ideas but not practical or cost efficient.

[Thames Valley Discos]

& I am about to attend to that.

I am doing about 4 things at once & am only visiting the forum every other few minutes.

Just trying to make the thread easier to read


And he use of all this technology would push the price up even further Paul.

They don't have the manpower to do checks - they've told us that.

Some good ideas but not practical or cost efficient.

Darren, the licence would pay for it. You dont need an army of people.
Its the thought that someone may be watching at any time even if they never do.
I have road tax, but never get pulled over to check it. OK i know they check other ways, but you get my drift.

Oh and baby sitting?

[Corabar Steve]

The licence is supposed to pay for the royalties, not the manpower to police the licence. There would be no point to having it then.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren, the licence would pay for it. You dont need an army of people.
Its the thought that someone may be watching at any time even if they never do.
I have road tax, but never get pulled over to check it. OK i know they check other ways, but you get my drift.

Oh and baby sitting?

Babysitting?

If Djs want the license to be cheap, then it won't pay for it.

Trust me Paul, I've been at the meetings.

All these things have been thought of and more and they aren't viable, financially or physically.

[sleah]

With technology the way it is today. You could be issued with a dongle that plugs into your pc.
This would know what you have on your pc.
.........
The dongle would be your license.


...which limits DDJs to only using a PC... it relies on an available port on said PC....and it's another piece of kit to go wrong.....what about your back-up system, can you swap the dongle.....what if you split between two PCs, two licences/dongles.... would it be compatible with every possible software player, if not it will load it's own 'spy'ware, will it then detect and catalogue every type of digital format, will it cope with the file structure(s).

There are too many reasons why a dongle would not be the answer. They are OK in a fixed system to authenticate software, but not content.

[DMX Will]

Why can't this license just be a bit of paper saying "Hey, this guy can play music digitally using X, Y or Z type of equipment for A, B and C types of events, providing the music is from a legal source such as D, E or F ?

Edit: As it's already illegal to download un-paid for copies of songs etc, so surely this doesn't really need to be covered in the license as it is already illegal!?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Why can't this license just be a bit of paper saying "Hey, this guy can play music digitally using X, Y or Z type of equipment for A, B and C types of events, providing the music is from a legal source such as D, E or F ?



That is what has almost been agreed.

[Thames Valley Discos]

An if its not policed do you think all djs will buy it?
After all not all have PLI.
It will be a case of the honest ones will the less honest will not. The honest guy will cover the shortfall of the less honest as with everything else in life.
And who( which artist) gets paid.
How will they know what tracks i play.
Would Peters and Leee( if still alive) receive money even though their music never gets played?
Tough one

[Disco Nation]

WOW!

I only wanted some advice! I think the can of worms has gone a bit stale now!

Anyway this was a thread on advice for using a laptop with the setup not on the legalities of ripping and licencing.

Thanks for the constructive pointers guys (and gals).

[Gary]

Going back to the first question - my mate and I used to use a laptop, a h/ware rackmount controller, software and the hum-isolaters and extra. soundcards to get better sound - spent the best part of a grand without music drives etc and now that Im looking to buy all the gear from scratch again Im not intending to spend that much money on laptops or pcs again particularly as the whole thing keeped on erroring at most gigs and the rack controller was slow at working the laptop.

we just kept getting pushed from piller to post when trying to find out what was causing the errors - loaded lots of new driver files, bought a different sound card, totally filled the laptop with memory, bought an swapped loads USB cables and everything - no fix found it was as bad at the last few gigs as it was from the day of purchase.

even though dj'ing from a hard disk drive is good for carrying and searching for your music tunes quick, the disadvantages and red faces where a bigger concern for me, so Im looking at Cds and cd players again.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Going back to the first question - my mate and I used to use a laptop, a h/ware rackmount controller, software and the hum-isolaters and extra. soundcards to get better sound - spent the best part of a grand without music drives etc and now that Im looking to buy all the gear from scratch again Im not intending to spend that much money on laptops or pcs again particularly as the whole thing keeped on erroring at most gigs and the rack controller was slow at working the laptop.

we just kept getting pushed from piller to post when trying to find out what was causing the errors - loaded lots of new driver files, bought a different sound card, totally filled the laptop with memory, bought an swapped loads USB cables and everything - no fix found it was as bad at the last few gigs as it was from the day of purchase.

even though dj'ing from a hard disk drive is good for carrying and searching for your music tunes quick, the disadvantages and red faces where a bigger concern for me, so Im looking at Cds and cd players again.


What software were you using?

[Gary]

What software were you using?

Tried PCDJ first, then OTS later due to unresolvable probs with PCDJ - both bought outright from the orig companys. could never get the DAC to work on OTS and people didn't think it looked good us clicking with a mouse all night - if we hadnt have stopped the busness because of my felow dj moving out of area, we would of gone back to CD players back then. switch on - choose a track striaght away - play thats all I wont now this time around.

[flatliners]

so how would this work i had an idea a while back where there is say two million tracks 1000nds of karaoke tracks and and music videos the dj who wants to use the system enters there card details and is send a code to activate the system if the dj just wants music they pay for music only or if they want karaoke and music they pay for both this would be a set price for a night not per track
the dj connects up to the internet via broardband and can stream as many tracks or karaoke as they like thus not having music on your hardrive or very little but having accsess to say two million tracks part of the fee would go to pay the roylites and other people there are other ideas i had along with this
dose anyone think this could work and if so would you use it

[sleah]

so how would this work i had an idea a while back where there is say two million tracks 1000nds of karaoke tracks and and music videos the dj who wants to use the system enters there card details and is send a code to activate the system if the dj just wants music they pay for music only or if they want karaoke and music they pay for both this would be a set price for a night not per track
the dj connects up to the internet via broardband and can stream as many tracks or karaoke as they like thus not having music on your hardrive or very little but having accsess to say two million tracks part of the fee would go to pay the roylites and other people there are other ideas i had along with this
dose anyone think this could work and if so would you use it

When you say 'stream' are you meaning live stream or just download before hand? If you mean live, I challenge anyone to name a mobile gig where they had broadband to hand (as it were)!!!
Where any system like this, including current DRM falls flat is that no-one in the right mind would use their show machine to do this, they would want to keep a COPY on the show machine that doesn't connect to the internet. This is where the current DDJ licence works well.
I have my main collection on a drive at home and I sync (copy) new tracks to the laptop. That's why DRM can never be enforced for DJ's.
Your idea reads like you mean 'download as you play' in which case I simply cannot see a situation where it would work (reliably!)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

When you say 'stream' are you meaning live stream or just download before hand? If you mean live, I challenge anyone to name a mobile gig where they had broadband to hand (as it were)!!!


Most of the Hotels I work in have wireless broadband, and so it would easily be possible if you have an enabled laptop/PC.

Also, Virtual DJ has a bit in the software, that if enabled, and you are subscribed, connects you directly to Napster and let's you stream tracks from there.

[sleah]

Most of the Hotels I work in have wireless broadband, and so it would easily be possible if you have an enabled laptop/PC.

Also, Virtual DJ has a bit in the software, that if enabled, and you are subscribed, connects you directly to Napster and let's you stream tracks from there.

:cool: until there is a ggg....glllllll....gli....ggggggg.......glitch.:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:cool: until there is a ggg....glllllll....gli....ggggggg.......glitch.:D

In which case, I use my Denon HD2500. ;)

[sleah]

In which case, I use my Denon HD2500. ;)

EXACTLY!!!:D :D :D

Think you've just proved my point:banana: ta!

[Corabar Steve]

so how would this work i had an idea a while back where there is say two million tracks 1000nds of karaoke tracks and and music videos the dj who wants to use the system enters there card details and is send a code to activate the system if the dj just wants music they pay for music only or if they want karaoke and music they pay for both this would be a set price for a night not per track
the dj connects up to the internet via broardband and can stream as many tracks or karaoke as they like thus not having music on your hardrive or very little but having accsess to say two million tracks part of the fee would go to pay the roylites and other people there are other ideas i had along with this
dose anyone think this could work and if so would you use it

Can you imagine the strain on the system on a Saturday night though, every DJ in the land logs onto one site :eek:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Can you imagine the strain on the system on a Saturday night though, every DJ in the land logs onto one site :eek:

But then not everone use the same software or Napster...;)


EXACTLY!!!:D :D :D

Think you've just proved my point:banana: ta!

Which was.....?

[sleah]

Which was.....?

That a live playout system that needs the internet to play is doomed.........I say dooooooooooooooomed:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

That a live playout system that needs the internet to play is doomed.........I say dooooooooooooooomed:D

Doooooooooomed? :D

[sleah]

Doooooooooomed? :D

Eye...doooooooomed we're all dooooooooomed:D

[Corabar Steve]

Aye :d

[flatliners]

yes it would be live streaming but you would have accsess to 1 million + tracks and you could have karaoke in there aswell also if one of the record companys has a new artist they are trying to push it could be on the site and after you have heard it you then fill in a question sheet and it is then e mailed back to the record company thus giving them the feedback but like the old white lables
and the system would always be updated with new songs so the dj will always have the song that the punter has asked for the system could recoment to a dj other songs that would work say if the dj was playing a gener of music that he or she did not know much about i think that a dj having access to 1 million + tracks would be a good thing and a great system for bars and night clubs and eventually with the technolgy internet on ya mobile could become faster thus using your mobile phone rigged up to your computer or even have a system like the d2 cortec or the new denon that could take this system
or some small and compact system with a built in mixer also unsigned bands could put there songs on the site and it might give them abit a chance for people to hear there stuff

[sleah]

Live streaming technology would have to change radically before it would be suitable for a ..errrrr... 'Live' performance.
You may think it is good, when you listen at home you don't notice the odd dropout or stutter, but at 2K it would be very noticeable. Just ask those who have had problems with PCDJ - similar effect.:mad:
That goes for the actual broadband technology too. It would only need the slightest thing to cause a dropped packet or two and there's an almighty stutter or sound drop:eek: ..and if the signal were lost - Game Over end of streaming, back to the local music source.:(