Is it not time PAT testing was made LAW or fully required by law

[Have a disco]

Sorry about this guys but yes its a regular issue but rather than avoid the problem, is it not about time we bandied together with other associations and Bent a few arms within the government and Major industries

AS UNTIL Pat testing is MADE LAW to be done yearly then whom is to say when it should be done??? say every week, month year or even every say 2 / 5 years The playing field needs to be finalised for once and for all

Prehaps we should be forming meetings with MP's and the industry as a whole to make it statutory, even part of your requirement to get PLI and it prosecuteable if you do not have it done if checked. I currently personnally feel every year is unecessary due to the lack of bookings I have in a year does not validate it need doing yearly every 2 years is fine, and I could test my own gear regularly. I could even run up my own certificates. but as time goes on and bookings build I will do it yearly but as no one around here even asks for PAT nor PLI certificates it seems pointless....

Please note guys Im not irresponsible but something needs doing for once and for all MAKE IT A LAW - MAKE IT HAPPEN via our voices, within all associatiions of the DJ's, KJ's, mobile disco's and Karaoke industry as to finally make a stand for complete clarification within all aspects of PAT certification

We are doing it for the DJ Licence why not this issue as well????????

[DMX Will]

AS UNTIL Pat testing is MADE LAW to be done yearly then whom is to say when it should be done say every week, month year or even every say 2 / 5 years The playing field needs to be finalised for once and for all

I think the reason the "1 year period" seems to be standard is because it is enforced by the govenment for venues such as schools and colleges etc to have every peice of equipment plugged into that venue PAT tested on a yearly basis.

Why do you want it to become law Badger? So you can say to clients "I'm legal as I have this and that" if that's the case, make them aware of it anyway! There's nothing stopping you saying to a client that says "Can you beat £100" - "No but are you sure the disco you got that quote from are inssured and have their equipment electrical safety tested madam?" - A quick explination of why it's important and I should imagine you'd have most clients "on side".

[Corabar Entertainment]

PAT is not something peculiar to this industry: it is applicable to all businesses nationwide, so the 'law' would have to stipulate EVERY piece of portable electrical equipment ever made!

[Have a disco]

I think the reason the "1 year period" seems to be standard is because it is enforced by the govenment for venues such as schools and colleges etc to have every peice of equipment plugged into that venue PAT tested on a yearly basis.

Why do you want it to become law Badger? So you can say to clients "I'm legal as I have this and that" if that's the case, make them aware of it anyway! There's nothing stopping you saying to a client that says "Can you beat £100" - "No but are you sure the disco you got that quote from are inssured and have their equipment electrical safety tested madam?" - A quick explination of why it's important and I should imagine you'd have most clients "on side".

Not every school, hired hall or even hotel checks certificates around here even if I waved them infront of there noses. But yet again it may put the rogue element out of business for once and for all, especially if all were forced to comply to go to registered PAT test companies???? Most clients dont give a hoot as long as they get there nights entertainment hence the enforcing of a law may finally make people realise we are a PROFFESSIONAL business industry at last not a two bob dj making a fast buck on the side????

[DMX Will]

PAT is not something peculiar to this industry: it is applicable to all businesses nationwide, so the 'law' would have to stipulate EVERY piece of portable electrical equipment ever made!

Although, I have no doubt whatsoever within time, it'll become law, and then alot of the population will consider it one of those "stupid laws" which to a degree it would be.

I don't think there would be any harm in making it a legal requirement in the Entertainment biz though, considering the percentage that already PAT test on a yearly basis must be quite high.

[DMX Will]

Not every school.

I assure you Badger, it is a legal requirement of schools. Wether they ask you or not is their business, however they should be checking, and thus would be their responsibility.

[Have a disco]

PAT is not something peculiar to this industry: it is applicable to all businesses nationwide, so the 'law' would have to stipulate EVERY piece of portable electrical equipment ever made!

And yes it is a very peculiar requirement to the industry and yes it Would have to apply to every industy and every piece of equipment carried about. as to make it a level playing field

LETS BE the first to make a stand and GET it made LAW the finer details I will gladly leave to the professionals within the industry but I need this one small bit of red tape to stop all these silly arguements as it varys so much from place to place

[DMX Will]

And yes it is a very peculiar requirement to the industry and yes it Would have to apply to every industy and every piece of equipment carried about. as to make it a level playing field

LETS BE the first to make a stand and GET it made LAW the finer details I will gladly leave to the professionals within the industry but I need this one small bit of red tape to stop all these silly arguements as it varys so much from place to place

You still haven't said why you want it to be made law....

[Have a disco]

I assure you Badger, it is a legal requirement of schools. Wether they ask you or not is their business, however they should be checking, and thus would be their responsibiltiy.

But should the onus be upon them to enforce the requirement of us producing our certificates at every event we may do.. I gaurantee in the last 2 years most teachers dont give a monkeys they just want a disco for 200 kids outside, or soon will be LOL

Its also the responsibility of Council hire venues for caretakers to check us as well and infact any venues manager to also do so but I have yet to meet one that does???? in 22 years of DJing & discoing I have only ever been asked once for PLI never PAT test certificates

I want it to be made law on the basis that it should be made law for all businesses to do it yearly regardless of the appliances usage

[Corabar Entertainment]

Indirectly, it is already legal requirement: the law is actually MORE stringent than that in that it states that all equipment must be regularly inspected and kept safe, etc. PAT is just a PART of that. The results of PAT should form part of your records to show that you are complying with the law.

It would be very difficult to show that you were complying with the law without having your equipment PAT tested.

At the end of the day, it is to protect those who USE the equipment - which in this industry is quite often the same person as the owner (ie the DJ). In other industries, it is mainly employees, and only in some does it directly affect the public (eg landlords, hotels)

[Ricesnaps]

Badger, I take it you are still struggling with work?

This constant frustration with legality and PAT is not the answer. I'm not advocating that we don't do it or we don't use it as a tool in our business, but to hold it up to be the thing that you are is not the answer.

Well paid work is about the development and belief in your ability and your business. Once that is your goal and you are able to focus on the customer base you want, I would suggest that PAT is simply another part of your offer. I have absolutely no problem with it being law or not, my business is not driven by an electrical test, it is part and parcel of the service and professionalism that I offer and that allows me to charge what I do and take the work that I do. Making it law won't have any effect on what I do and whether I maintain my gear to the highest standard.

This it seems is once again about money and availability of work. If you want the £250 - £400 work in the area Badger, it is there, it is possible and it has absolutely nothing to do with a PAT certificate. How do I know? Because I am working this year in Sudbury, Lavenham, Haverhill, Castle Headingham.... all within very easy reach of you!

[PropellerHeadCase]

Badger, I take it you are still struggling with work?

This constant frustration with legality and PAT is not the answer. I'm not advocating that we don't do it or we don't use it as a tool in our business, but to hold it up to be the thing that you are is not the answer.

Well paid work is about the development and belief in your ability and your business. Once that is your goal and you are able to focus on the customer base you want, I would suggest that PAT is simply another part of your offer. I have absolutely no problem with it being law or not, my business is not driven by an electrical test, it is part and parcel of the service and professionalism that I offer and that allows me to charge what I do and take the work that I do. Making it law won't have any effect on what I do and whether I maintain my gear to the highest standard.

This it seems is once again about money and availability of work. If you want the £250 - £400 work in the area Badger, it is there, it is possible and it has absolutely nothing to do with a PAT certificate. How do I know? Because I am working this year in Sudbury, Lavenham, Haverhill, Castle Headingham.... all within very easy reach of you!

Author! Author! Bravo!

[waxintaxin]

OK , kept out of this one as it seems to be a big subject and as a Health and safety Manager ( facilities manager with H&S as one of my disiplines) who is qualified to NEBOSH Diploma level I feel that you all have differing opinions on what is a very easy subject and to be fair one any mobile DJ should be happy to perform , as it is thier protection against what could be a serious Issue

portable appliance testing is a control measure to mitigate Risk of accidents
and thier is no law stating duration of tests , only that each application should be assesed and the risk factors will dictate the PAT tests frequency

it is lawfull in the sense that without performing the test as part of your health and safety policy in congunction with records of tests and and thought out plan,you risk your self and employees of your company. any venue that knows its responsibilitys will not hire in a company who does not do this. As they have a rsponsibility to the visitors of thier place of work


All places of work have a duty to ensure that anyone in attendance of thier venue are safe, they should all check your policy , risk assesments ( which pat is part of , as a control measure) and method statements , Insurance , as without doing this they open themselves up , as it is the place of work who have to responsibility to the laws governing H&S to its visitors, plus your responsibility to have a policy for your company

the venues competent person should know this , and by failing to do the checks are being pretty stupid.

Bored yet LOL

A PAT tests frequency depends on the use of the equipment , guidance exists on this from the HSE , for example a PC in a work enviroment , that just sits on a desk, mybe needs pat testing every 3 years, but a hire company may want to pat every 3 months with visual and formal inspections every time its hired out, as long as this is documented and you are happy with your reasoning then you remain within the law

EG
a disco , does 6 discos a year all his equipment is stored in cases and its carefully put up, then maybe once a year is too much? as its light usage and cared for equipment, he could certainly argue that his bi yearly pat test was sufficient

a hire company , hires out stuff to anyone , its bashed about , maybe 3 monthly pats are about right , full inspection before every hire and when it returns , will ensure that they are covered.

PAT test is only a small part of your health and safety policy governing your discos , and there is a much bigger picture which PAt is just a small part

i am happy to answer any Qs if i can , but dont hate me , as i know H&S is a sore subject, i only did the exams to make more money and keep people safe plus as a facilities manager it ensures good career prostects lol

Rich

[PropellerHeadCase]

Nice to have a definitive answer on that one. Thanks.

[Have a disco]

EG
a disco , does 6 discos a year all his equipment is stored in cases and its carefully put up, then maybe once a year is too much? as its light usage and cared for equipment, he could certainly argue that his bi yearly pat test was sufficient

a hire company , hires out stuff to anyone , its bashed about , maybe 3 monthly pats are about right , full inspection before every hire and when it returns , will ensure that they are covered.

PAT test is only a small part of your health and safety policy governing your discos , and there is a much bigger picture which PAt is just a small part

i am happy to answer any Qs if i can , but dont hate me , as i know H&S is a sore subject, i only did the exams to make more money and keep people safe plus as a facilities manager it ensures good career prostects lol

Rich

Thank you Rich you have validated the question I needed to know at hand As I do not use my equipment as much as some of you By me Bi-Yearly Patesting my equipment I am in a sense acting responsibly.

As for a risk assesment Im finding something like this impossible to do as most nights I turn up set up and play mostly at venues I have never been to and more than likely never to reappear at for at least another year, and a visual check is 9/10 times all that is needed and as I am the only employee of my own business, I aint going to put myself at risk?? or am I?

Ricey mate naughty naughty nicking work in my area LOL no Im getting they're slowly but surely but in Haverhill I am classed as the small fry whom charges alot for a good show, most of my work is stangely coming from out of town, Harlow, Claire, Stansfield, Denston and Castle Camps. I am aiming for the upper class of customers whom pay for a good show and DJ not one or the other.

My relationship breakdown in the last year didn't help but Ce La Vie. I am picking up the pieces. I am still trying to get into a managed house to become a landlord eventually you can see what Im trying to do. Most landlords have to pay for a disco karaoke. In my own premises I wouldnt and with the ability to provide and outside bar and disco to others if they need it elsewhere a complete package for hire in time to come.

I just thought guys that maybe a law written for all within the industry may help us deter the black market element further

[waxintaxin]

The key is to make sure that you have written it down as part of your H&S policy , and you have thought about why you only need to pat test for the duration you have decided

Risk assesments are easy , and the same risk assesment can be used for each gig as the hazzards will remain the same

electricity
working from height
manual handling
slips , trips , falls
falling objects

if good control measures are put in place
IE , visual inspections , pat testing , CE marked kit
and control measures for the opther hazzards , then a generic risk assesment should cover any job
Rich