Acme iM-5s Moving Head Vs Acme Winner

[scoopd]

Acme iM-5s Moving Head Vs Acme Winner
What's the difference between the 2 and is it worth parting with a few winners to purchase some moving heads?

[flatliners]

well the im 5s is a moving head means the whole head moves the winner is a mirro effect but if ya going for the moving head go for the pro light hid range check www.djanddiscostuff.com

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Acme iM-5s Moving Head Vs Acme Winner
What's the difference between the 2 and is it worth parting with a few winners to purchase some moving heads?

It really depends what you want them for.

I use moving heads and like them because used master and slave they are slower than scanners and that suits me.

Heads definately have more of a wow factor though, as they are a lot more visual than a couple of mirrors moving about.

[DMX Will]

Apart from what has been said so far. They are pretty much the same otherwise (have the same gobos/colours)

[scoopd]

You're certainly tempting me into selling the winners and buying the heads!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Apart from what has been said so far. They are pretty much the same otherwise (have the same gobos/colours)

I know what you are saying Will, but they aren't 'the same' in any stretch of the imagination!

[scoopd]

So are they or aren't they!!!???
Are they better value for money thatn the winners.
What prompted this discussion was I have barrel rovers that I am impressed with but was hugely disappointed when I purchased the winners!

[Ricesnaps]

So are they or aren't they!!!???
Are they better value for money thatn the winners.
What prompted this discussion was I have barrel rovers that I am impressed with but was hugely disappointed when I purchased the winners!
You could always change the winners for Rovers?

I'm completely barrel now - role on Saturday (Why do you ALWAYS get the "no smoke machine" venue when you have a whole reg of new lights?)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm completely barrel now

You wanna go on a diet then....:p :D

[DMX Will]

I know what you are saying Will, but they aren't 'the same' in any stretch of the imagination!

But they are Darren. The iMove 5S is simply the moving head version of the winner with a few updated gobos.

First we had the Winner, then Acme introduced the Knight Spot (moving head, blue case version of the iMove 5S) - Identical gobos/colours. Then Acme launched the iSolution range which included an updated Knight Spot (more options including bi-colour selections etc and quite a few of the gobos has been switched out)

So you see it all started with the Winner, and alot of the style has just been passed down "through generation".

I'm pretty sure the colours are untouched and still remain the same (with very slight differences in tones)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But they are Darren. The iMove 5S is simply the moving head version of the winner with a few updated gobos.

First we had the Winner, then Acme introduced the Knight Spot (moving head, blue case version of the iMove 5S) - Identical gobos/colours. Then Acme launched the iSolution range which included an updated Knight Spot (more options including bi-colour selections etc and quite a few of the gobos has been switched out)

So you see it all started with the Winner, and alot of the style has just been passed down "through generation".

I'm pretty sure the colours are untouched and still remain the same (with very slight differences in tones)


I know that Will, but a moving head is a completely different effect to a scanner, even if it has the same gobos and colours.

[flatliners]

i would change them as i am not a big fan of the winners but saying that the winners are better than the leos and simitars

[DMX Will]

I know that Will, but a moving head is a completely different effect to a scanner, even if it has the same gobos and colours.

How does it change the effect? It's still a gobo/colour that moves around, you just have a few more limitations on the area you can cover with one fixture.....

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

How does it change the effect? It's still a gobo/colour that moves around, you just have a few more limitations on the area you can cover with one fixture.....

OK, it looks a lot more visual. The beams are wider. The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes and they run slower if using master and slave mode.

If the effect was exactly the same, why do people buy and use them?

Why do they use them on TV shows, like Millionaire and a question of sport?

Why do theatre companies use them? Etc etc.

This is a silly arguement Will. I know they have the same colours and gobos, but that is it.

I have used lots of scanners over the years and moving heads are different.

[flatliners]

tv shows use moving heads because the coverage of the beam will go just about anywere in the room and can easy place moving heads on the floor

[DMX Will]

OK, it looks a lot more visual.

I agree.


The beams are wider. The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes and they run slower if using master and slave mode.

I couldn't comment on beam size, as I wouldn't say I've looked at it hard.



If the effect was exactly the same, why do people buy and use them?

Because, like you said they "look more visual" and look the dogs danglies on a disco. They also, like we've said are more flexiable in terms of where they can "point" to.


Why do they use them on TV shows, like Millionaire and a question of sport?

Why do theatre companies use them? Etc etc.

Because ITV and the BBC buy items in bulk, and they buy them with intentions of using them on many different shows (or at least the possibility of it), so flexibility (i.e. where the light can be focussed too) is important. Take Millionaire for example, the lights almost do the full 180 degree spin, live.

You can also get alot more electronics in a large moving head, than you can in some scanners. Although this doesn't seem to be the case with the Winners/iMoves. (Which could explain the big gaps and empty spaces inside the iMove!)

You can't get a wash scanner aswell, and I've yet to see a scanner with remote focussing.



This is a silly arguement Will. I know they have the same colours and gobos, but that is it.

I have used lots of scanners over the years and moving heads are different.

I'm not arguing :) Simple pointing out in the case of the Winner and the iMove, there is little difference if you forget the casing/size that it uses.

I'm not trying to come across as if I know better, nor am I trying to patronise you, so please don't take this very-light-hearted debate to heart. ;):D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I agree.



I couldn't comment on beam size, as I wouldn't say I've looked at it hard.




Because, like you said they "look more visual" and look the dogs danglies on a disco. They also, like we've said are more flexiable in terms of where they can "point" to.



Because ITV and the BBC buy items in bulk, and they buy them with intentions of using them on many different shows (or at least the possibility of it), so flexibility (i.e. where the light can be focussed too) is important. Take Millionaire for example, the lights almost do the full 180 degree spin, live.

You can also get alot more electronics in a large moving head, than you can in some scanners. Although this doesn't seem to be the case with the Winners/iMoves. (Which could explain the big gaps and empty spaces inside the iMove!)

You can't get a wash scanner aswell, and I've yet to see a scanner with remote focussing.




I'm not arguing :) Simple pointing out in the case of the Winner and the iMove, there is little difference if you forget the casing/size that it uses.

I'm not trying to come across as if I know better, nor am I trying to patronise you, so please don't take this very-light-hearted debate to heart. ;):D


I won't, but there are still a lot of differences between them. ;)

[DMX Will]

I won't, but there are still a lot of differences between them. ;)

Other than what they look like?!?! Oh I give up with you Darren! :D;):D:rolleyes::p

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Other than what they look like?!?! Oh I give up with you Darren! :D;):D:rolleyes::p

No, other than all the reasons I put in a post a few posts up, which you totally ignored for the basis of your answer.

Do you have moving heads Will?

[DMX Will]

No, other than all the reasons I put in a post a few posts up, which you totally ignored for the basis of your answer.

Where? I can't find anything that I didn't cover...? :confused:


Do you have moving heads Will?
No, I don't need them. I'm undecided if I like them on discos, if I were to get some, I think i'd get some futurelight PHS's. I work with heads often enough though. Infact I had to modify some iMoves a couple of months ago, as the fans were too noisy for studio work. And as of Friday I'm in the theatre for a week. I'm the lighting designer of a show with a few martin mac 500's, and around 100 generic lanterns. So it's not a case of I don't know them.

Edit: www.willperkins.co.uk/downloads/intothewoods.pdf

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

OK, fair enough, I just made it up.

They are exactly the same, which is why the scanners are around £120 and the heads around £250.

You are obviously just paying money for a bigger case and I've been duped into thinking they are a different effect.

Silly me.

You'd think I'd know better after 23 years of using different lighting effects.

[DMX Will]

OK, fair enough, I just made it up.

They are exactly the same, which is why the scanners are around £120 and the heads around £250.

You are obviously just paying money for a bigger case and I've been duped into thinking they are a different effect.

Silly me.

You'd think I'd know better after 23 years of using different lighting effects.

I'm not really sure what to reply to that to be honest. So I will just leave it before it goes to far or gets out of hand. If you point me to the posts where you've made remarks regarding the differences between the two, that I ignored, then I'll be happy to respond.

Otherwise, peace out.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not really sure what to reply to that to be honest. So I will just leave it before it goes to far or gets out of hand. If you point me to the posts where you've made remarks regarding the differences between the two, that I ignored, then I'll be happy to respond.

Otherwise, peace out.

Here you are. By the way, nothing gets 'out of hand' on here. We don't run the forum that way. You should know that by now. ;)


OK, it looks a lot more visual. The beams are wider. The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes and they run slower if using master and slave mode.

[DMX Will]

OK, it looks a lot more visual. The beams are wider. The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes and they run slower if using master and slave mode.

Ok, I agreed with you with regards to the "looking more visual" - and I said I couldn't comment about the beams, however I'm sure it differs for different fixtures.

I don't 100% understand the line "The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes" - I presume you mean it can "get around" ;) more? as obviously your limited with a scanner.

And I've never, in my entire life (maybe I should try it) linked lights together or used a CA-8. I have either DMX'ed or just let them run on their own for the really small rigs.


Thanks for bouncing back, I'll admit I wasn't looking forward to that reply - so thanks for, errr, well you know what I mean :)

P.S. Was trying to say that on MSN, so thanks for ignoring me their too ;) :P

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ok, I agreed with you with regards to the "looking more visual" - and I said I couldn't comment about the beams, however I'm sure it differs for different fixtures.

I don't 100% understand the line "The movement is a lot different in terms of where it goes" - I presume you mean it can "get around" ;) more? as obviously your limited with a scanner.

And I've never, in my entire life (maybe I should try it) linked lights together or used a CA-8. I have either DMX'ed or just let them run on their own for the really small rigs.


Thanks for bouncing back, I'll admit I wasn't looking forward to that reply - so thanks for, errr, well you know what I mean :)

P.S. Was trying to say that on MSN, so thanks for ignoring me their too ;) :P

I was speaking to you on MSN :confused: but you didn't reply?

Technology...PAH!

[DMX Will]

I was speaking to you on MSN :confused: but you didn't reply?

Technology...PAH!

Ahh, was this d@mn eBuddy thing, as MSN refuses to sign in on my Vista machine :mad:

[highslayer]

Apart from what has been said so far. They are pretty much the same otherwise (have the same gobos/colours)

Not actually correct.

They have completely different gobo sets, different amounts of gobos and the colours are slightly different too.

I have Winners and iMove 5S, although my iMoves are the discharge ones which are far more impressive than the halogens. Not really fair to compare a £300 moving head with a £130 scanner though.

They both have their place. Moving heads definitely have more of a wow factor, but if you arent DMXing them also need mroe control and looking after to cover the room.

A set of 4 or 6 Winners is very impressive and looks extremely good. A pair of movers on slow scroll around the room sets the show off perfectly though.

No reason not to have both, and the scanners are certainly easier to mount, carry and transport, and the cases are a lot cheaper than the moving head ones.

Me - I'd keep both lol!

[Alex - Cream Ents]

A combination of Scans and Movers in your equipment will serve you best over all...
Moving heads are not as fast as scanners so for more i.e. dance based points in the evening scans will provide faster, more aggressive effects. Movers are excellent for achieving atmosphere and obviously have more scope for covering the room (although this doesn't apply so much when mounted on truss above a DJ stand - rather than being in a rig above the dance floor).

Movers are generally (like for like) heavier - I'm sure someone will point out a Golden Scan is heavier than an iMove..and (-again generally-) larger, making them slightly more of a pain in the arse to get around.

In summary I'd hang on to some of your scanners (an even number) and perhaps get a pair of heads to start of with and see how you get on with them. Perhaps barrel scans or a "Wizard" type effect would better compliment the movers to give you some dance floor filling light.

Go for something with a discharge lamp...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Old thread alert...

[Alex - Cream Ents]

Begging your pardon I merely went for the top of the list - sorry if I have covered much old ground!!!