To be, or not to be an Agent

[BBoy-Gnash]

Not me but the family as a whole have been in the disco business for just under twenty years and I have been involved with it since I was ten so I have got seven years in.

We are now in the position where we are turning down about half a dozen bookings a week. We have been passing them on to other DJ’s that we know and if they are booked I will now post the surplus on here.

When we pass them on the client deals directly with the other DJ and we have no involvement and take no fee but it seems crazy to be just giving business away. We appreciate there are insurance and contractual problems of being an agent so is it worth the effort and what are the costs involved.

I must say that the reason we have never considered it before is because you loose control of the quality.

[mikeee]

First I would go to the DTI web site and read the Employment Agencies Act 1973 and The Conduct of Employment Agencies Act 2003 (Also know as Statutory Instruments (SI) 2003 No 3319. There is also other relevent acts that need reading as well. Once you have done this and you are happy, you just have to wait until you are old enough to do it, I think you have to be 21, or it may be 18, but it was along time ago since I was there so I can't remember.

[flatliners]

dont do it leave all that to the pros you see if someone rings me up and i am booked then i say i am booked sorry dont pass names on often because i am a 1 person disco when they book a disco they get me and not someone else i call it personal service i think there are too many discos with x amount of shows who are just in it for the money why should someone ring up to book a disco then for the company to take a cut then pass the work on i dont see the point the cut should really be going to the person doing the gig not a middle man ( if only i could clone myself )

[DMX Will]

i think there are too many discos with x amount of shows who are just in it for the money

I think thats a bit of a sweeping statement to make, on a forum where many of the DJs/Members do this. Infact both the owners (Darren and Ang) have more than one disco, although they both pay their DJs, instead of working as an agency.

I think the reason these DJs start to put on more shows at anyone time is because there is a need for their quality of service in their area, for example, Darren doesn't sit at home in front of the phone and PC raking in the money, you also find him out doing these discos, and I'm sure "lovin' it".

So what if he makes some extra bucks along the way, I'm sure considering the job that both Solitaire and Corabar (there are more...these are just my examples) do, they are considerably under-paid for the hours they put in. Point is, it keeps them afloat, AND they get to do what they love.

So before you go making any more statements think about the offence you could cause, and also...check your facts. :mad:

[Corabar Steve]

i think there are too many discos with x amount of shows who are just in it for the money


the job that both Solitaire and Corabar (there are more...these are just my examples) do, they are considerably under-paid for the hours they put in. Point is, it keeps them afloat, AND they get to do what they love.

So before you go making any more statements think about the offence you could cause, and also...check your facts. :mad:

Oh, we're just in it for the money Will. :sj: Although I do agree it's a bit of a sweeping statement.

Both Solitaire Entertainments Ltd & Corabar (Entertainment) Ltd are full time businesses (Ltd companies), there is no other reason for running a business, we do it to earn a living. (Obviously I can't speak for Darren)

The fact that we are earning from something we enjoy is a bonus.

Either employ your own DJs (& pay them a fair wage) or leave it to the established leec..er.... agents who know what they are doing

[BBoy-Gnash]

We turn down a large amount of quality bookings each week hence why I made the initial post but having looked in to it in more depth becoming an agent is a minefield.

I think Will hit the nail on the head when he said, “there was a need for quality service in the area”. We do have a lot of good DJ’s around our area but there simply aren’t enough to cope with the demand at the better end of the market. Please don’t get me wrong when I say that as we used to do a few Pubs but the pay was quite poor and the audience unpredictable so we concentrate on the wedding market which is better paid.

We see an awful lot of new DJ’ start up and fade away quickly so they are never around long to progress into our chosen market which gives us a nice safety barrier. We also believe that there is a lot of price snobbery from clients when they book a DJ and some feel unless they are paying a healthy sum they are not getting a good service, suits us.

After discussions with a local agent we have now decided to pass on all referrals to them and in return they will give us first consideration for enquiries they receive. Although we almost have no slots left in June, July and August there is at least a possibility of some return for our efforts.

We have never worked for an agent purely because we agree with Steve’s opinion of them but on this occasion we have struck a deal where our fee will remain the same as if we were dealing with the end user. Personally I think it will end up as a one way street but time will tell. So far they have only sent us two referrals and one was for 05/05/07, which every man and his dog wanted to book, and the other was for a BBoy exhibition for a hen night in Oxford which we would have probably got anyway.

Give it a few months and we will probably be back to square one and simply sending out replies saying, “Sorry we are fully booked”. :bang:

[Corabar Steve]

They're not all leeches & in fairness, I only put that in to wind up Mikeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

There are a lot of good agencies out there, we just choose not to work for them & to handle our own bookings.

I think it's best to leave it to the established agencies, unless you have the time to devote 100% to it. As you say it is a minefield, as I'm sure Mikeee will agree.

[Dragonfly]

I have only worked for 2 agencies both very good imo , both have asked me what money I want for a particular gig and offered me that money ... to my mind what they then charge is upto them as long as I get the money i want?

[CRAZY K]

I have only worked for 2 agencies both very good imo , both have asked me what money I want for a particular gig and offered me that money ... to my mind what they then charge is upto them as long as I get the money i want?

As Mike pointed out (on another thread relating to a new "agency") to do the job PROPERLY you need to be a registered/ licensed Employment Agency and have Employers and Public Liability Insurance amongst other things---
all before you start. THAT COSTS A BOB OR TWO:eek:

Also theres some new rules that say--

YOU are responsible for non payment of fees to Disco
YOU have to make sure ALL Discos have PAT and PLI.

After that its easy:eek:

If you have a large number of genuine quality bookings then it might be worthwhile---remember by the time you have added your commissions the gross cost might be more than the customer wants to pay--the days of agents taking 10 per cent are long gone( I believe)

Also you may pass on "enquiries" but how many become bookings?

I have tried to pass on a few to Spin down the road here without any commission but sadly none of these have materialised.:(

Dont fall into the trap of using cheaper Discos that quite likely will eventually come back and bite you with Customer complaints and problems.

As it happens in the Summer im looking at the viability of starting my own Barn Dance Centre ( Licensed Agency) ---WHO KNOWS??????????

CRAZY K

[BBoy-Gnash]

Our paperwork is pretty crisp and as we are full time our response is very fast during office hours which are when the bulk of enquiries come in. It’s actually funny to watch and quite predictable as most of the stuff comes in at times when workers would be on tea or lunch breaks so they are obviously abusing the works internet.

I would estimate that if we respond to the enquiry via email we would get about a 75% conversion rate, if that is then followed by a telephone call the rate increases. People like to be reassured that there event is going to managed and delivered in a professional manner. I will add that although I know how to do it I don’t handle the office side of things I tend to do most of the kit cleaning, inspection and testing which is equally important.

With the best will in the world some of my brothers do not pack stuff away into the right boxes sometimes and our rigs are put together in a mix and match module style so they are easy to increase or decrease depending on audience and venue size.

That aside in reality what do is send a generic email to the agency that we are fully booked and can they help this client with a CC to the client. We then have no other involvement and the email even caries a disclaimer from us about quality of service.

We did check the agency out and they are properly registered so that is all cool and I think if we did ever progress an expansion over four rigs we would go down the Corabar route as you still control the quality. It would take a while to bring on additional DJ’s but if you installed the kit and had them as walk in DJ’s using you’re format at a sensible hourly rate problem solved.

The only trouble I see with that is my brother has a block paving company and he is allowed to pay casual labour on a daily basis up to a certain amount after that they need some sort of proof they are paying tax and national insurance. If he uses somebody regularly he then employs them as that creates another problem, if they do too much work for him they say that person is not really self employed anymore and should be an employee. Surely would that would also apply to using a DJ on a regular basis.

And what would be the sensible rate for a walk in DJ for an 8.00pm – 12.00am gig?

[mikeee]

They're not all leeches & in fairness, I only put that in to wind up Mikeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Um, I had noticed :D


I think it's best to leave it to the established agencies, unless you have the time to devote 100% to it. As you say it is a minefield, as I'm sure Mikeee will agreecertainly do. But I would add that the market is changing, and the way people operate is changing, and with clever "manipulation" of the wording, than can (almost) get away with murder, but at the same time they have to be more open and accountable. Whilst we do need new blood coming in, I also have concerns about some "older" agents that are not keeping up with the times and still putting DJ's out at 1970's / 80's prices. Since deregulation in 1995 the industry has drifted, allowing the world, his son and his *Expletive Removed* dog to do as they please. I think I'd better stop, before..............................:bang:

[Corabar Steve]

The only trouble I see with that is my brother has a block paving company and he is allowed to pay casual labour on a daily basis up to a certain amount after that they need some sort of proof they are paying tax and national insurance. If he uses somebody regularly he then employs them as that creates another problem, if they do too much work for him they say that person is not really self employed anymore and should be an employee. Surely would that would also apply to using a DJ on a regular basis.

And what would be the sensible rate for a walk in DJ for an 8.00pm – 12.00am gig?

All our DJs are totally on the books so to speak & tax registered on a PAYE basis, so not a problem. They all get a monthly pay slip with all deductions clearly shown.

[CRAZY K]

Our paperwork is pretty crisp and as we are full time our response is very fast during office hours which are when the bulk of enquiries come in. It’s actually funny to watch and quite predictable as most of the stuff comes in at times when workers would be on tea or lunch breaks so they are obviously abusing the works internet.

I would estimate that if we respond to the enquiry via email we would get about a 75% conversion rate, if that is then followed by a telephone call the rate increases. People like to be reassured that there event is going to managed and delivered in a professional manner. I will add that although I know how to do it I don’t handle the office side of things I tend to do most of the kit cleaning, inspection and testing which is equally important.

With the best will in the world some of my brothers do not pack stuff away into the right boxes sometimes and our rigs are put together in a mix and match module style so they are easy to increase or decrease depending on audience and venue size.

That aside in reality what do is send a generic email to the agency that we are fully booked and can they help this client with a CC to the client. We then have no other involvement and the email even caries a disclaimer from us about quality of service.

We did check the agency out and they are properly registered so that is all cool and I think if we did ever progress an expansion over four rigs we would go down the Corabar route as you still control the quality. It would take a while to bring on additional DJ’s but if you installed the kit and had them as walk in DJ’s using you’re format at a sensible hourly rate problem solved.

The only trouble I see with that is my brother has a block paving company and he is allowed to pay casual labour on a daily basis up to a certain amount after that they need some sort of proof they are paying tax and national insurance. If he uses somebody regularly he then employs them as that creates another problem, if they do too much work for him they say that person is not really self employed anymore and should be an employee. Surely would that would also apply to using a DJ on a regular basis.

And what would be the sensible rate for a walk in DJ for an 8.00pm – 12.00am gig?


I think you may being mis informed here, it doesnt matter if its regular or a one off employment--its the same. A paid roadie carrying your Disco equipment for 5 minutes is employment. A DJ working on your equipment all night is the same.

You then need Employers Liability Insurance.

Any person that works for you--i.e. you supply the job and maybe materials and machinery as well is under a contract of service legally.

That means you employ them----forget about tax and NI thats a red herring.

That means you are responsible for them as regards what they do and any liability for damamge caused , you need Employers Liability Insurance as well as PLI.

The Labour only Subcontractor market is a minefield.

The only difference in running " Disco units" is the cost and maintenance of equipment, plus recruiting and retention of reliable DJs, also you need a regular supply of work otherwise your investment is wasted and your DJs go and do something else.

Either way its a lot of hard work and cost, I would be wary of recent suggestions that you can get round all this by setting up on the Internet and disclaiming liability for this that and the other to suit yourself -in my opinion you cant legally do that.

CRAZY K