Now this might be a little hard for some...

[Ricesnaps]

After contemplating some of the healthy discussions we've all been having lately, I wondered if we could try to help each other rather than simply having healthy dissagreements?

To that end, here's the idea. What is is that makes your chosen method successful, what do you personally do, or use or indeed not do. Can you provide examples which would in some way offer "training" to those who are maybe not as good as you are.

For example, we had a lengthy discussion about responding to enquires. Now regardless who is right and wrong, it is clear that some of us are seemily better at email responses and some of us better at telephone. So if we can possibly put to oneside our disagreements about which is the better and more effective method, how about some details about what makes you good and how the rest of us can be better.

Lets make this interesting and add another one to that to make it really lively. Can we also discuss how to talk at a gig effectively (and put aside whether you actually think you should or need to).

[rob1963]

After contemplating some of the healthy discussions we've all been having lately, I wondered if we could try to help each other rather than simply having healthy dissagreements?

To that end, here's the idea. What is is that makes your chosen method successful, what do you personally do, or use or indeed not do. Can you provide examples which would in some way offer "training" to those who are maybe not as good as you are.

For example, we had a lengthy discussion about responding to enquires. Now regardless who is right and wrong, it is clear that some of us are seemily better at email responses and some of us better at telephone. So if we can possibly put to oneside our disagreements about which is the better and more effective method, how about some details about what makes you good and how the rest of us can be better.

Lets make this interesting and add another one to that to make it really lively. Can we also discuss how to talk at a gig effectively (and put aside whether you actually think you should or need to).

Ricesnaps,

You're asking the impossible, as you can probably tell by the lack of replies.

You asked us to explain what we do & why we do it, but that WILL involve disagreements!

For example, person A could say "I hardly talk on the mic, and these are the reasons... Then person B could say "I talk a lot on the mic, and these are the reasons.

Great idea in theory, though!

:)

[Ricesnaps]

Ricesnaps,

You're asking the impossible, as you can probably tell by the lack of replies.

You asked us to explain what we do & why we do it, but that WILL involve disagreements!

For example, person A could say "I hardly talk on the mic, and these are the reasons... Then person B could say "I talk a lot on the mic, and these are the reasons.

Great idea in theory, though!

:)

Incorrect Rob,

I actually asked people to "teach" us "How" they do things, but specifically asked people not to consider WHY they do things. No arguments required here, just some useful teaching for all of us.

You must learn to read, there was nothing that even remotely suggested this was about people's reasons for doing anything, it was absolutely an attempt to get each of us, who believes we have a certain skill, to simply demonstrate how we use this skill.

Let me challenge you rob - teach me how to respond to an email enquiry. I have absolutley no interested in why you would want to, I simply want to learn how to be more effective from an emailed reply to a quote request.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ricesnaps - This is just MY opinion but when I first read this topic I thought "Yes, good idea, someone who doesn't want any grief on the forum, fair play"...and all was well......

BUT..

It got spoilt when you made the comment..."You must learn to read..." and so on. To my eyes, that's a put down and personal insult (whether it was intentional or not). I don't think for one minute that you would be hypocritical and say that you don't want people to argue etc and then come out with a blatant comment like that - That would be stupid and from what I have read in the past from you, you don't seem stupid.

Sorry if I have read this the wrong way but that's the way it looks to me and I wonder if anyone else sees it the same. No offence intended.

Gary

[Ricesnaps]

Ricesnaps - This is just MY opinion but when I first read this topic I thought "Yes, good idea, someone who doesn't want any grief on the forum, fair play"...and all was well......

BUT..

It got spoilt when you made the comment..."You must learn to read..." and so on. To my eyes, that's a put down and personal insult (whether it was intentional or not). I don't think for one minute that you would be hypocritical and say that you don't want people to argue etc and then come out with a blatant comment like that - That would be stupid and from what I have read in the past from you, you don't seem stupid.

Sorry if I have read this the wrong way but that's the way it looks to me and I wonder if anyone else sees it the same. No offence intended.

Gary

Gary,

Sometimes comments can be born out of huge frustrations with some peoples inability to actually comprehend what was asked. the thread had seemingly died anyway. Apologies if my frustration suggested I was shooting my own tread in the foot, hopefully quite the oposite

[theoloyla]

As we agree there probably isnt a right way or a wrong way to do things then my answer to your question Ricey is it is all down to lifeskills. I try to listen to people and be polite and tolerant. (Advice which wouldnt go amiss to some people on this forum!)

[Dragonfly]

personally dont think there is a right and wrong way to do things like mic work etc its how you do it and knowing when it is and when not appropriate this is a talent i believe and i dont think you can teach it in some cases?

[rob1963]

I actually asked people to "teach" us "How" they do things, but specifically asked people not to consider WHY they do things. No arguments required here, just some useful teaching for all of us.


Ricesnaps,

With all due respect, I see little value in trying to teach people HOW we do things without also explaining WHY we do them.

If we have the HOW but not the WHY, I think we only have 50% of the information we need.

[soundtracker]

This thread is a tremendous endorsement of meeting with other DJs and talking face to face. Very often totally straightforward posts get misinterpreted due to, punctuation, inflection and simple poor wording, which wouldn't happen in a live situation. To grow as DJs we need to exchange views with our peers, unfortunately a forum is not always the most straightforward way of accomplishing this!

[Shaun]

Very often totally straightforward posts get misinterpreted due to, punctuation, inflection and simple poor wording, which wouldn't happen in a live situation.

How very true!.

[rob1963]

Very often totally straightforward posts get misinterpreted due to, punctuation, inflection and simple poor wording, which wouldn't happen in a live situation.

I agree to an extent, but it's still possible to be misunderstood or misinterpreted due to poor wording or poor communication skills in a live situation as well.

[soundtracker]

Yeah if you're a plank!

[Ricesnaps]

Ricesnaps,

With all due respect, I see little value in trying to teach people HOW we do things without also explaining WHY we do them.

If we have the HOW but not the WHY, I think we only have 50% of the information we need.

Quite litterally gobsmacked now. Rob I will start with your missinformed and arogant comment (that was my own personaly opinion by the way). Sometimes I think our industry would do a hell of a lot better if we actually realised that we couldn't do everything and actually believed we could learn from other people. have you ever read the Pro Mobile magazine for example. There are articles in there month after month where people using the benefit of there own experiance attempt to impart some of that knowledge to others. That's called training! Or maybe in some cases sharing. You need absolutely no real knowledge of the personal opinion to listen to or indeed impart knowledge. This thread was (it seems a rather foolish one) and attempt to cut through the argumentative and deaf nature of a number of people and attempt to see if we could share some learning.

Rob, I have already asked, but you obviously don't believe it's valuable to you or me to try and post some details of how to write a good email response to a client enquiry? This is SUCH a great example. I have absolutely no desire to know or understand why it is you believe that an email response is better than a phone call and indeed I will continue to choose to believe that I am right and you are wrong. But you see that has absolutely no impact or effect on you sharing how you would compose an email response whatsoever.


This thread is a tremendous endorsement of meeting with other DJs and talking face to face. Very often totally straightforward posts get misinterpreted due to, punctuation, inflection and simple poor wording, which wouldn't happen in a live situation. To grow as DJs we need to exchange views with our peers, unfortunately a forum is not always the most straightforward way of accomplishing this!

Mr Soundtracker. I have to agree with your comments wholeheartedly. In fact if I am right, you are an active member of NADJ? An organisation which does indeed meet face to face. Would I also be correct in assuming that the NADJ groups provide each other with training and support (as apposed to constantly disagreeing with each other?)


personally dont think there is a right and wrong way to do things like mic work etc its how you do it and knowing when it is and when not appropriate this is a talent i believe and i dont think you can teach it in some cases?

I think the key here is that there is a great deal to be learnt from fellow DJ's and that "training" would be invaluable to many. Unfortunately as wil many things in life, to simply sit in a classroom, you will not learn or develope the skills you need. You may ever decided that your opinion is not the same as the teacher in the end, but why shouldn't someone try to "teach" some of the skills we have? Take microphone skills. Agreed this can be a very personal thing, but what harm would it do for someone, say myself, to post some details of how it works for me, how I would recomend developing microphone and spoken techiniques. After all, someone had to show me how to ride my bike, it was my own choice to take my hands off the handlebar!

[soundtracker]

Mr Soundtracker. I have to agree with your comments wholeheartedly. In fact if I am right, you are an active member of NADJ? An organisation which does indeed meet face to face. Would I also be correct in assuming that the NADJ groups provide each other with training and support (as apposed to constantly disagreeing with each other?)



I think the key here is that there is a great deal to be learnt from fellow DJ's and that "training" would be invaluable to many. Unfortunately as wil many things in life, to simply sit in a classroom, you will not learn or develope the skills you need. You may ever decided that your opinion is not the same as the teacher in the end, but why shouldn't someone try to "teach" some of the skills we have? Take microphone skills. Agreed this can be a very personal thing, but what harm would it do for someone, say myself, to post some details of how it works for me, how I would recomend developing microphone and spoken techiniques. After all, someone had to show me how to ride my bike, it was my own choice to take my hands off the handlebar!

Everyone, whatever level they are at has some particular skill to offer, NADJ branch members have learnt that there is actually more to be gained from working together with, rather than against other DJs. Those that choose to keep their secrets close to their chests, unfortunately also manage to do the same with the flaws in the way they work! We (as DJs)are not good at being our own critics, others can always spot problems in what you do and give advice and support in how to put it right. There isn't a right or wrong in what we do, only what works and what doesn't.

[theoloyla]

Exactly and that is what SEDA has been doing for 30 years and \NADJ and the others too. Internet forums are all very well but you cant beat face to face hands on experience.

[wensleydale]

why are people so keen on arguing this weekend?
as my mum says- if you haven;t something nice to say, then shut up.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

why are people so keen on arguing this weekend?
as my mum says- if you haven;t something nice to say, then shut up.

It's what forums are about Rich, whether you like it or not, there will always be a difference of opinion, call them heated debates or arguements, they'll always be about.:)

[Thames Valley Discos]

It's what forums are about Rich, whether you like it or not, there will always be a difference of opinion, call them heated debates or arguements, they'll always be about.:)
you would never see me Partissipating in such a heated debate
:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

you would never see me Partissipating in such a heated debate
:D

Or even spelling it correctly....:D :D :D

[Thames Valley Discos]

Or even spelling it correctly....:D :D :D

Participating:p

[Jiggles]

Coh i thought i was bad :D:D:D:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Participating:p

10 out of 10. Go to the top of the class. :cool: :D

[Thames Valley Discos]

Coh i thought i was bad :D:D:D:D

you are :p worser :p than me!

[musicinmotiondi]

:) :)

Watch out guys a local sub branch of NADJ may be set up in Peterborough area email me if you wish to be added to the mailing list

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:) :)

Watch out guys a local sub branch of NADJ may be set up in Peterborough area email me if you wish to be added to the mailing list

You might want to put this post in the NADJ sub forum Andy.

[rob1963]

Quite litterally gobsmacked now. Rob I will start with your missinformed and arogant comment (that was my own personaly opinion by the way). Sometimes I think our industry would do a hell of a lot better if we actually realised that we couldn't do everything and actually believed we could learn from other people. have you ever read the Pro Mobile magazine for example. There are articles in there month after month where people using the benefit of there own experiance attempt to impart some of that knowledge to others. That's called training! Or maybe in some cases sharing. You need absolutely no real knowledge of the personal opinion to listen to or indeed impart knowledge. This thread was (it seems a rather foolish one) and attempt to cut through the argumentative and deaf nature of a number of people and attempt to see if we could share some learning.

Rob, I have already asked, but you obviously don't believe it's valuable to you or me to try and post some details of how to write a good email response to a client enquiry? This is SUCH a great example. I have absolutely no desire to know or understand why it is you believe that an email response is better than a phone call and indeed I will continue to choose to believe that I am right and you are wrong. But you see that has absolutely no impact or effect on you sharing how you would compose an email response whatsoever.


Ricesnaps,

I completely agree that our industry would do a hell of a lot better if we actually realised that we couldn't do everything and actually believed we could learn from other people.

That's the whole reason I joined this forum - because I KNOW there is a lot I can do to improve my business by listening to other members & learning from them, and that's why I already HAVE made many changes to my website and some aspects of the way I run my business - based on a number of suggestions made by forum members.

Yes, I have read some issues of pro mobile magazine. I think it's a great little publication, and have been meaning to subscribe for a while now. However, I don't really think of the articles as "training" but more like people giving their ideas & opinions...much like what happens on this forum.

To me, the word "training" conjures up an image of someone who wants to become a DJ coming out with me to some gigs, and me teaching them how to set the gear up, and how to use the CD player, mixer, & lights. Also things like how to use the mic, how to deal with requests, what music to play & when, etc etc.

I appreciate that this thread was an attempt to cut through the argumentative and deaf nature of a number of people, but whatever you ask, there is no way that arguments & differences of opinion can be avoided. That's the whole nature of a forum like this. Even you yourself couldn't even stick to what you were asking others to do, as you made an insulting comment to me when you suggested I needed to learn how to read...as pointed out by Shakermaker. I think it's also fair to say that you find it hard to resist the urge to have a pop at me!

Finally, the reason I've previously avoided posting some details on how I think people can write a good response to a client enquiry is because it depends entirely on the nature of the enquiry & on what is being asked.

The fact that they've looked at your site means that they're obviously interested in your services, so you're half way there already. Basically, my response will be quick, as this helps to give the impression of efficiency. I will thank them for their interest in my services, answer their specific enquiry fully & concisely, and attempt to convince them that I can provide the service they are looking for.

I also offer to visit them to discuss what they want & what I can offer - because I've noticed that EVERY potential client I've visited has then gone on to book me. In addition, I offer to email or post my top 120 request list or even my full music catalogue to assist with their music choice. I try to be friendly, polite & helpful, and always end my response by saying something like "if you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me" which encourages them to come back to me for clarification on anything they don't understand.

I'm sure some people will disagree with what I do, but the reason I do it is because it works for me. It's as simple as that.

I hope this is the sort of thing you were looking for & answers your question.

Regards,

Rob.

:)

[PropellerHeadCase]

We (as DJs)are not good at being our own critics, others can always spot problems in what you do and give advice and support in how to put it right.

That whole problem of not being able to be two places at once - behind the decks AND on the far side of the room.