Cabling phono type Vs XLR type

[Stephen_N.I.]

I know this might sound like a silly question as thicker cabling will make a difference in sound, but how much of an improvement does it make e.g.
Phono (thin leads) as opposed to xlr cables? Expecially in the bass area.

[Ricesnaps]

I know this might sound like a silly question as thicker cabling will make a difference in sound, but how much of an improvement does it make e.g.
Phono (thin leads) as opposed to xlr cables? Expecially in the bass area.

It depends what exacty you mean.

I changed the interconnects from my Denons to my mixer to high grade Hi-Fi interconnects - about £30 a pair - about 2 years ago and the difference in sound quality was really noticable

[Stephen_N.I.]

I'm meaning more so the wires to the speakers:

Would something like this
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/reallymean106/xlrcab.jpg
give a better bass response than something like this?
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/reallymean106/phonocab.jpg

[Corabar Steve]

Oh yes

[Stephen_N.I.]

A significant difference?
I know it's obvious that'll help but I'm using short xlr's at the mo but long phono-type cables.
Need to purchase long xlr's, it's not the cost, it's just a general query I have as I'm sure there's more bass in my speakers than what I'm getting out of them.

[Spirits High]

If you get time pop down and see michael or Mark at Eclipse on the upper newtonards road or give them bell. Great source of info.

[Ricesnaps]

But if it's great bass yo want, the quality of interconnects will also make a huge difference!

By the way, based on home hi-fi standards, would very high quality hi-fi speaker cable give a significant improvement on PA kit?

[CRAZY K]

But if it's great bass yo want, the quality of interconnects will also make a huge difference!

By the way, based on home hi-fi standards, would very high quality hi-fi speaker cable give a significant improvement on PA kit?

Huge Matt?

Equivalent to 25 per cent of the bass eq?

Otherwise I just turn up the eq for bass!

My bass bin speakers can just about handle the bass coming through on a zero to plus 2 setting on the channel mixer and master amp bass at zero,
admittedly I have 2 mixers!

It also depends on everything else-- the speakers, the cabinets, the crossover, the mixer, the amp, the original bass recording level of the MP3 or CD , the room your in , the number of people in the room--its endless.

Oh and the leads ( I guess )

For example the difference is immediately noticeable on my Cortex using MP3s ripped at low and high settings.

Perhaps Stephen you can tell us what your DJ sound set up is so people on here might be able to help--I mean speaker type, crossover, amp, mixer, CD or USB etc.

CRAZY K

[spin mobile disco]

I have used both gold zero oxygen hi fi type phono's and standard xlr cables as the interconnects from my mixer to my amps. To be honest I have not noticed much of a difference . Certainly not enough to make it worth paying money to change. Saying that my phoh cables were alomost as thick as my xlr's as they were very high quaility cables.
XLR's have the advantage of locking clips which mean they are less likely to come loose than phonos's. Also in general I would say xlr would last longer as it was designed to be used in heavier conditions than the average phono.
Basically not a lot of difference to the sound but dont extend either over 3 metres or loss will be noticable.

[Thames Valley Discos]

i normally use neutrik connectors with van damme cable. i,m happy with the sound from them.

[Tony Scott]

Also in general I would say xlr would last longer as it was designed to be used in heavier conditions than the average phono.
Basically not a lot of difference to the sound but don't extend either over 3 metres or loss will be noticable.

Agreed!

I have been using 8mtr Balanced XLR oxygen free cables from my Front of House desk to my EQ/effects rack since xmas(had to set-up the playout miles from my racks). I have just shortend them down to about 2mtrs and I've had to turn the bass EQ down by 2db, I was shocked! :eek:

[Tony Scott]

I know this might sound like a silly question as thicker cabling will make a difference in sound, but how much of an improvement does it make e.g.
Phono (thin leads) as opposed to xlr cables? Expecially in the bass area.

Stephen I've just re-read your OP, am I right in thinking you have Active speakers, it's just that you don't state this.

If you are using thin phono's for this application then ABSOLUTLEY you must change them!! :)

[BeerFunk]

Please be aware that your interconnects will make little difference unless you're using top grade equipment. Think of it as a bottleneck, you can have the purest cabling around, but if it's feeding poor quality mixers and amps, it makes no difference.

[Tony Scott]

Please be aware that your interconnects will make little difference unless you're using top grade equipment. Think of it as a bottleneck, you can have the purest cabling around, but if it's feeding poor quality mixers and amps, it makes no difference.

I agree that the use of good quality interconnects with top grade equipment is more important than with lower grade stuff but surely if you start with a poor grade mixer then stick a poor grade 0db signal down a 3 - 4mtr cheap phono lead it will degrade the signal even further?

If using a good grade interconnect in the same situation then at least the signal won't get much worse than it is already. Do you not agree? :)

[Corabar Steve]

I'll go with Tony on this one

[CRAZY K]

I'll go with Tony on this one

Just got back in again--plenty of ideas--still no confirmation of the equipment being used?

CRAZY K

[BeerFunk]

I agree that the use of good quality interconnects with top grade equipment is more important than with lower grade stuff but surely if you start with a poor grade mixer then stick a poor grade 0db signal down a 3 - 4mtr cheap phono lead it will degrade the signal even further?

If using a good grade interconnect in the same situation then at least the signal won't get much worse than it is already. Do you not agree? :)
Technically true, but in that case it doesn't really matter what shade of :Censored: your sound comes out as, it's still gonna sound :Censored:!

:D

[PropellerHeadCase]

When you say "phono" is the lead terminated with a headphone-jack type connector? If so, regardless of the behaviour of the lead, XLR is balanced and less prone to interference - any improvement in audio spectrum is just a bonus, really.

[Corabar Steve]

Technically true, but in that case it doesn't really matter what shade of :Censored: your sound comes out as, it's still gonna sound :Censored:!

:DBut surely as Tony says it won't degrade any more.

[Tony Scott]

Just got back in again--plenty of ideas--still no confirmation of the equipment being used?

CRAZY K

Reading between the lines I think he must be using Active's, think I remember seeing a picture recently with some mood bars & Warrior actives that Stephen posted.
Also he also posts in this thread about using phono's for his speakers, scary thought if they are passives! :D

[Tony Scott]

When you say "phono" is the lead terminated with a headphone-jack type connector? If so, regardless of the behaviour of the lead, XLR is balanced and less prone to interference - any improvement in audio spectrum is just a bonus, really.

Phono = RCA (what you connect to a cd player etc. for audio)

Agreed, balanced XLR has to be of benefit!

[Ricesnaps]

OK then, here's my take on things....

I grew up with a passion for home hi-fi. In the days I had the work, full seperates system, Kef floorstanders, Arcam amplifier, Marantz CD and so on. There were aways rules about how to set the gear and how to buy. In general it was always felt that wource was the best place to spend the money, although in later years the argument changed to amp and speakers, although there was always a chance that a great amp would just reveal the flaws in the source. Not sure what the thought is now as disco gear took over from Hi-Fi!

However, what it has meant is that I have always had an ear for detail and depth in sound. If someone tells you that it's all about the bass, they are either running a club with drum and bass nights or have never heard the new Bose system (come to that neither have I, but I get the concept!). But to be fair it's the detail that comes into play when you start talking cable!

What's the point of good cables if the kit isn't up to scratch. Good point, if you want to make bad sound worse, then keep the thin gimick interconnects you get in the box. There is no argument, it doesn't matter how pants (sorry Rob, toilet) your kit is, good quality interconnects will deffinately make a huge difference. Maybe spending £100 a pair when you have soundlab decks is a bit OTT, but when you get to the Denon arena, it's really not a joke!

I can't remeber what make I plumped for in the end without looking, but as I said early, what a difference. I might not get wads more bass, or 25% more bass, but what I do get is control and clarity. The bottom end has a slightly more rounded and less fuzzy sound to it, the mid frequencies now let me pick out slightly more of the instruments and the trebble is sweet and a little more defined.

Will any of my clients notice? Probably not, but lets be honest, when you get to that level of detail, it's me that needs to notice. But who know, maybe if I switched back to the old cable people would complain!

That leads me to my question about speaker cable. Now if I was building a hi-fi, I would be looking at Monster, QED, Chord, Ixos, maybe even Nordost. But when I run a disco PA, it's the £7.99 jobs from the loac disco store. How mucgh more would I get out of the kit if I paid for great Hi-Fi speaker leads?

[Tony Scott]

OK then, here's my take on things....

I grew up with a passion for home hi-fi. In the days I had the work, full seperates system, Kef floorstanders, Arcam amplifier, Marantz CD and so on. There were aways rules about how to set the gear and how to buy. In general it was always felt that wource was the best place to spend the money, although in later years the argument changed to amp and speakers, although there was always a chance that a great amp would just reveal the flaws in the source. Not sure what the thought is now as disco gear took over from Hi-Fi!

However, what it has meant is that I have always had an ear for detail and depth in sound. If someone tells you that it's all about the bass, they are either running a club with drum and bass nights or have never heard the new Bose system (come to that neither have I, but I get the concept!). But to be fair it's the detail that comes into play when you start talking cable!

What's the point of good cables if the kit isn't up to scratch. Good point, if you want to make bad sound worse, then keep the thin gimick interconnects you get in the box. There is no argument, it doesn't matter how pants (sorry Rob, toilet) your kit is, good quality interconnects will deffinately make a huge difference. Maybe spending £100 a pair when you have soundlab decks is a bit OTT, but when you get to the Denon arena, it's really not a joke!

I can't remeber what make I plumped for in the end without looking, but as I said early, what a difference. I might not get wads more bass, or 25% more bass, but what I do get is control and clarity. The bottom end has a slightly more rounded and less fuzzy sound to it, the mid frequencies now let me pick out slightly more of the instruments and the trebble is sweet and a little more defined.

Will any of my clients notice? Probably not, but lets be honest, when you get to that level of detail, it's me that needs to notice. But who know, maybe if I switched back to the old cable people would complain!

That leads me to my question about speaker cable. Now if I was building a hi-fi, I would be looking at Monster, QED, Chord, Ixos, maybe even Nordost. But when I run a disco PA, it's the £7.99 jobs from the loac disco store. How mucgh more would I get out of the kit if I paid for great Hi-Fi speaker leads?

Agree with all of that except the bit about speaker leads.

I use Van Damme for my PD1850 bass horns & Celestion 18" & 15" reflex bass.
Everything else just reasonable grade cable, same as Ricey.......Van Damme's costly enough! :)

[Stephen_N.I.]

Hi everyone, overwhelmed with the response, thanks.
Only back in the door now so only posting.

I've got a numark cd mix console.
DB techs 400 active speakers

I've got short xlr cables at present but I rarely use them as I always need longer lengths.

I've got some "home cinema" style phono leads (like a phono extension lead) coming from the cd mix console to a phono-xlr cable for the speakers.

In my experience in the past of home cinema/hifi systems cabling does not make a lot of difference to the bass.

Currently I have a yamaha sub(home hifi). I did use a mono twisted pair cable, then changed to door bell equivalent wire (dual input sub). I noticed no difference in bass quality.

So my quiery is "will xlr cables carry better bass than basic phonos?"
(bearing in mind that the output I use now is a phono style and the one that can be used is an xlr type)

Thanks

[BeerFunk]

So my quiery is "will xlr cables carry better bass than basic phonos?"
(bearing in mind that the output I use now is a phono style and the one that can be used is an xlr type)
The answer is 'no' :)

[Tony Scott]

Hi everyone, overwhelmed with the response, thanks.
Only back in the door now so only posting.

I've got a numark cd mix console.
DB techs 400 active speakers

I've got short xlr cables at present but I rarely use them as I always need longer lengths.

I've got some "home cinema" style phono leads (like a phono extension lead) coming from the cd mix console to a phono-xlr cable for the speakers.

In my experience in the past of home cinema/hifi systems cabling does not make a lot of difference to the bass.

Currently I have a yamaha sub(home hifi). I did use a mono twisted pair cable, then changed to door bell equivalent wire (dual input sub). I noticed no difference in bass quality.

So my quiery is "will xlr cables carry better bass than basic phonos?"
(bearing in mind that the output I use now is a phono style and the one that can be used is an xlr type)

Thanks

If your output is XLR then it is probably balanced, this fact alone is worth getting XLR type cables as they will carry less noise/interference.

Bass response should also be improved. Have you considered getting a sub box if it's more bass your after.

[Ricesnaps]

Agree with all of that except the bit about speaker leads.

I use Van Damme for my PD1850 bass horns & Celestion 18" & 15" reflex bass.
Everything else just reasonable grade cable, same as Ricey.......Van Damme's costly enough! :)

What bit didn't you agree with reference speaker leads. I thought I had asked a question, not made a statement?

By the way, I think my interconnects are Van Den Hul

[rob1963]

If I wanted more bass, I wouldn't start buying expensive leads or plugs, I'd just turn up the bass using my mixer's eq controls.

After all, that's what they're for!


I don't think super expensive & super high quality leads & plugs make as much difference as has been suggested...certainly not "a huge difference"

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If I wanted more bass, I wouldn't start buying expensive leads or plugs, I'd just turn up the bass using my mixer's eq controls.

After all, that's what they're for!


I don't think super expensive & super high quality leads & plugs make as much difference as has been suggested.

Not if you use cheap gear :p

[rob1963]

Not if you use cheap gear :p

I don't! :D

[Tony Scott]

What bit didn't you agree with reference speaker leads. I thought I had asked a question, not made a statement?

By the way, I think my interconnects are Van Den Hul

So you did, to be honest I'm a bit drunk! Don't take anything I post in the next hour to heart as it will all probably be ******** anyway (spelling to get around the filter!:D ) SPELLING DIDN'T GET AROUND THE FILTER!!! VERY GOOD THESE ADMIN CHAPS!

Do like loud music though, neighbors not so keen!! :D :D :D

[PropellerHeadCase]

Phono = RCA (what you connect to a cd player etc. for audio)

Agreed, balanced XLR has to be of benefit!

Ah, OK, RCA I know. I don't call 'em phono purely because they can plug into the phono or the line I/Os - and the standard was after all invented by the Recording Corporation of America.




Hi everyone, overwhelmed with the response, thanks.
Only back in the door now so only posting.

I've got a numark cd mix console.
DB techs 400 active speakers

I've got short xlr cables at present but I rarely use them as I always need longer lengths.

I've got some "home cinema" style phono leads (like a phono extension lead) coming from the cd mix console to a phono-xlr cable for the speakers.

In my experience in the past of home cinema/hifi systems cabling does not make a lot of difference to the bass.

Currently I have a yamaha sub(home hifi). I did use a mono twisted pair cable, then changed to door bell equivalent wire (dual input sub). I noticed no difference in bass quality.

So my quiery is "will xlr cables carry better bass than basic phonos?"
(bearing in mind that the output I use now is a phono style and the one that can be used is an xlr type)

And what length are the cables for home audio/hi-fi versus mobile DJing? The longer a lead the greater the impedance, the thinner the lead the greater the impedance thus the more power required to get the same volume from the same speaker when at the end of a longer, thinner lead, and the lower the comparative quality of the sound, particularly in the top end. (Already mentioned the benefits of balanced vs unbalanced.)

I think you may be asking the wrong question, and so maybe didn't realise that Rice had kinda answered it...


I can't remeber what make I plumped for in the end without looking, but as I said early, what a difference. I might not get wads more bass, or 25% more bass, but what I do get is control and clarity. The bottom end has a slightly more rounded and less fuzzy sound to it, the mid frequencies now let me pick out slightly more of the instruments and the trebble is sweet and a little more defined.

Bear in mind that all aspects of the audio spectrum rely on each other - if one suffers they all suffer by comparison - clearer, more defined mids and treble will improve the apparent quality of the bass without having to EQ it (and the phase issues inherent with that).

[Ricesnaps]

Still want to know if I would get better sound by using quality hi-fi speaker cable - or is the a "pro" version that gives superb quality?

[Stephen_N.I.]

Bass response should also be improved. Have you considered getting a sub box if it's more bass your after.

Thats the next plan of action, looking at a peavey pro-sub or db tech 41.15. I'll be feeding that with xlr's for definite so it'll do no harm to run xlr to the speakers too.

Just can't help thinking that there's more bass in those cabs! :cool:

[Tony Scott]

Still want to know if I would get better sound by using quality hi-fi speaker cable - or is the a "pro" version that gives superb quality?

If you buy oxygen free Van Damme cable your speakers will love you for it. This is the stuff serious touring companies use and can't be bettered IMHO.

The stuff I have is Super flexible, dark blue and is about 15mm thick. The cores are about 4mm thick.

I got 50mtrs for supplying a free PA system at a school fete last minute. The care taker had it laying around! When I checked the price it was worth at least £7.00 per/mtr!! :D :D

This should have been my best bargain post now I think of it! :)

[Spirits High]

Reading between the lines I think he must be using Active's, think I remember seeing a picture recently with some mood bars & Warrior actives that Stephen posted.
Also he also posts in this thread about using phono's for his speakers, scary thought if they are passives! :D

These pics?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/polobloke/spiritshigh219.jpg


Right part of the country, wrong DJ!!

[Ricesnaps]

If you buy oxygen free Van Damme cable your speakers will love you for it. This is the stuff serious touring companies use and can't be bettered IMHO.

The stuff I have is Super flexible, dark blue and is about 15mm thick. The cores are about 4mm thick.

I got 50mtrs for supplying a free PA system at a school fete last minute. The care taker had it laying around! When I checked the price it was worth at least £7.00 per/mtr!! :D :D

This should have been my best bargain post now I think of it! :)

Got a link with a price? Lots of products and no prices!

[Tony Scott]

Spirits High Quoted:
'Right part of the country wrong Dj!!!'


Oops.........I had drunk a lot of 6.5% Belgian Abbey beer by the time I posted that though.
Anyway, Paul, Stephen easy mistake! lol

Still lovin' those Mood Bars!

[Tony Scott]

Got a link with a price? Lots of products and no prices!

Yeah no problem.

I'm on the road posting on PDA at present, I'm sure I got a link on my desktop at home, will post it when I get back.

Tony.

[Stephen_N.I.]

Ok, so I tried it with XLR cables and WOW is all I can say.
Vast improve in volume and clearer, deeper bass.
Just knew there was more bass in those cabs.
Happy bunny now, can't wait till I get the sub, will be pumpin! :D
Cheers folks

[Tony Scott]

Ok, so I tried it with XLR cables and WOW is all I can say.
Vast improve in volume and clearer, deeper bass.
Just knew there was more bass in those cabs.
Happy bunny now, can't wait till I get the sub, will be pumpin! :D
Cheers folks


Happy Days! :)