Output volume gradually getting less loud.

[rob1963]

Hi guys,

I use a dual cd player in a carpet case with a Numark mixer, a Warrior amp which gives about 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms and two Warrior L300 speakers. I run the amp on maximum & set the level using the mixer master outputs.

My problem is that over the last few years, the output volume seems to gradually be getting less & less, so I'm having to increase the master output on the mixer to get the same sound level. It's now got to the stage where I need to have it so high that the amp is clipping...and quite a bit too. I've turned off the clipping feature - so the music doesn't cut down, but the LEDs still come on. Although they come on quite a bit, I haven't noticed any sound distortion. My current amp is rated at double the output of my old citronic disco mixers with built in amps, and double the rating of what a friend of mine uses.

So why is the level gradually decreasing & where is all the power going?

I've had several thoughts as to possible causes, and here are the details with some more information to help you:

1) Speakers. I don't think they are the problem, as I borrowed a friends speakers a couple of years back (admittedly they were the same model as mine) and the volume was the same. I also popped a cone a year ago, and replaced both cones to be on the safe side...still no louder.

2) Mixer. I don't think this is the problem either, as I've just replaced my KAM mixer with a Numark one...and it's still no louder.

3) Amplifier. This is Warrior amp which gives about 300 watts per channel. It's probably about 5-8 years old now, but it's regularly serviced. I recently bought another amp with a very similar output to use as a spare, and when I tried it, there was no more volume & it too was clipping...so I don't think the amp is the problem.

4) This one only occurred to me a couple of days ago...what about the leads (XLR to XLR) which carry the mixer output to the amp or the leads from the amp to the speakers (Speakon to jack). These leads are about 8 years old. Is it possible they could be breaking down or causing the problem in some way?

The final suggestion was from my brother...and it's that I'm just going deaf! I think (or HOPE) I can discount that one!

Any ideas or suggestions will be really appreciated, as I'm starting to run out of ideas.

Thanks guys.

[Corabar Steve]

Could just be you're going deaf after all these years of loud music :sj:

[Vibrant Sounds]

Get your ears syringed!

[colint]

get your ears looked at and turn your clip limiters back on! , and it's not just your speaker system that can damage your ears,
don't forget about your headphones 4-5 hours of constant use can cause massive damage to your hearing (think how close the noise is to your eardrums) and also if your clipping your amps your not getting a clean signal and distortion is your hearings worst enemy!

the other thing you need to consider is sound levels have increased so much over the years & 300watts per channel is not very powerful by todays standards (the first big amp I bought was a sound city 500watt mono valve amp and back then it was the biggest amp you could buy, I use a 1000watt amp on my monitoring system now)
I have my ears tested every 6 months beleive me it's well worth the hasle

[CRAZY K]

Hi guys,

I use a dual cd player in a carpet case with a Numark mixer, a Warrior amp which gives about 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms and two Warrior L300 speakers. I run the amp on maximum & set the level using the mixer master outputs.

My problem is that over the last few years, the output volume seems to gradually be getting less & less, so I'm having to increase the master output on the mixer to get the same sound level. It's now got to the stage where I need to have it so high that the amp is clipping...and quite a bit too. I've turned off the clipping feature - so the music doesn't cut down, but the LEDs still come on. Although they come on quite a bit, I haven't noticed any sound distortion. My current amp is rated at double the output of my old citronic disco mixers with built in amps, and double the rating of what a friend of mine uses.

So why is the level gradually decreasing & where is all the power going?

I've had several thoughts as to possible causes, and here are the details with some more information to help you:

1) Speakers. I don't think they are the problem, as I borrowed a friends speakers a couple of years back (admittedly they were the same model as mine) and the volume was the same. I also popped a cone a year ago, and replaced both cones to be on the safe side...still no louder.

2) Mixer. I don't think this is the problem either, as I've just replaced my KAM mixer with a Numark one...and it's still no louder.

3) Amplifier. This is Warrior amp which gives about 300 watts per channel. It's probably about 5-8 years old now, but it's regularly serviced. I recently bought another amp with a very similar output to use as a spare, and when I tried it, there was no more volume & it too was clipping...so I don't think the amp is the problem.

4) This one only occurred to me a couple of days ago...what about the leads (XLR to XLR) which carry the mixer output to the amp or the leads from the amp to the speakers (Speakon to jack). These leads are about 8 years old. Is it possible they could be breaking down or causing the problem in some way?

The final suggestion was from my brother...and it's that I'm just going deaf! I think (or HOPE) I can discount that one!

Any ideas or suggestions will be really appreciated, as I'm starting to run out of ideas.

Thanks guys.

Rob, with the greatest respect I think you are probably the worst person to assess your equipment, because you use it all the time and probably dont have comparisons you can make--other than against its own performance which might be affected by a number of factors including your ears.

You may have to bite the bullet and get the Disco shop to check it all over, (tax deductable) as they would be use to varying types and sizes of equipment and say --cor that sounds rubbish ---or thats good for its type.

They certainly have measuring gear to see if amp or mixer are below manufacturers output levels--servicing the amp---depends what that means---blowing out the dust and making sure it works---or a proper output check?

If you Do It Yourself then a fault finding strategy must methodically replace every part individually with a new or alternative one until problem solved--otherwise you will never know.

Might be a faulty fader, could be anything.

This can be expensive, difficult and time consuming unless you can hire cheaply or borrow, you should be able to hire or buy xlr leads from friends or DJ shop?

Personally I dont think its speaker leads--they tend to work--or not work--but no doubt someone will disagree with that:D

Is it reaching the stage where its not loud enough for your bookings without bringing on the leds? Or are you playing louder venues Or are people saying turn it up because everyone expects to get their heads blown off at a Disco?

Years ago I used to get valve amps checked, valves replaced all that kind of thing--never sounded any different to me afterwards:eek:

CRAZY K

[Jiggles]

I have one thing to say:


Old age :P

[rob1963]

Could just be you're going deaf after all these years of loud music :sj:

Pardon? :p


Is it reaching the stage where its not loud enough for your bookings without bringing on the leds? Or are you playing louder venues Or are people saying turn it up because everyone expects to get their heads blown off at a Disco?CRAZY K

Crazy,

Yes...it's reaching the stage where in my opinion it's not loud enough for my bookings without bringing on the LEDs.

I'm not playing larger venues, and people are NOT asking me to turn it up...maybe I should accept that I don't have a problem until they DO.

Having said that, when I first got my current console, I had the output of my KAM mixer on just over 3. By the time I recently replaced the mixer, I was having to set the the output on 5-6, which is a massive difference.

:confused:

[CRAZY K]

Pardon? :p



Crazy,

Yes...it's reaching the stage where in my opinion it's not loud enough for my bookings without bringing on the LEDs.

I'm not playing larger venues, and people are NOT asking me to turn it up...maybe I should accept that I don't have a problem until they DO.

Having said that, when I first got my current console, I had the output of my KAM mixer on just over 3. By the time I recently replaced the mixer, I was having to set the the output on 5-6, which is a massive difference.

:confused:

I presume thats to get what you consider a "standard reasonable" volume for your system using same CD, same venue etc ?

I would get some checks done on the equipment if it becomes a problem for YOU.

I dont personally like using equipment unless im happy with it MYSELF---never mind the punters--they dont generally notice these differences UNLESS ITS REALLY BAD.

CRAZY K

[Sapphire Disco]

I think you need to add a good pair of matching subs.

[CRAZY K]

I think you need to add a good pair of matching subs.

Quite probably but whats that got to do with the volume going down?

CRAZY K

[Sapphire Disco]

Quite probably but whats that got to do with the volume going down?

CRAZY K

I'm not sure that the sound would go down that much even if the equipment is old , I think when you get very used to a setup it just seems not so loud.
Also I just think just a pair of 12" speakers with 300 watt P/C amp is not enough on it's own these days, just my umble opinion.

[Cj_The_Dj]

if your speakers are 8ohms and your amp is 4ohms you will lose half of what each can do

[Cj_The_Dj]

about 30 years ago my dad said he used cloud seris 9 twin turntable with 100W built in amp with a pair of 12" 150@ cloud speakers and in them days that was loud enogh now we used 1000w a side and we need it. dont no why but it has just happen

[spin mobile disco]

Ok 2 possabilties I can think of . First percieved noise goes down the longer you hear it. So the longer you listen at a certain voume the quieter it will seem after time.
Second mosfet amps get quiter as they overheat. This is the way mosfets are deisgned and it is not a malfunction, but more a feature to prevent overheat damage.
If it seems to be getting worse it may be due to poor cooling. You caould try cleaning fans heat sinks etc. Also sometimes its not unknown for the output transisters to come aways from the heatsinks this of course mean they dont cool very well. This can be fixed by using a thermal past and reaffixing them.

Hope this helps.

[Tony Scott]

Rob, have you tried a different CD unit or some other source of playout, just that the output from this may be decreasing???

If it's not this I would say you need a hearing test. I know that my hearing is not as it was.
I've had 27years of wear & tear on my hearing, for 20yrs of that it's been 2kW as an absolute minimum.
If I get a cold I loose 75% of hearing in my left ear, it's no joke, get them checked!!!!!!

[Dragonfly]

sounds like a typical marriage to me ....... after a few years the output level drops :D :D

maybe time to look for a younger model?

[Penfold42]

sounds like a typical marriage to me ....... after a few years the output level drops :D :D

maybe time to look for a younger model?

:lol:

What was your last job...marriage guidance councillor....

I just think he's deaf.....what's that Rob...pardon!!!

[gillo]

to be honest its the sense of you hearing, everybody is the same when you get a set of bass bins you think wow there really bassy then you get lobger down the line there not bassy anymore????

ive bought 4 different pairs off bass bins over the last two years and im finally happy as i built ones to my spec and style which suit me perfect, used them on sunday for an outdoor gig each bass bin has two 15'' drivers and boy did they pound low and chest kicking bass that you could feel 30 foot awy and they were just ticking over! anyway are the drivers you replaced originals? if not it might be worth replacing them with a more efficient driver that has an impedance of 4 ohm so it will probably suck 500 watts out of your amp/

[Tony Scott]

to be honest its the sense of you hearing, everybody is the same when you get a set of bass bins you think wow there really bassy then you get lobger down the line there not bassy anymore????

ive bought 4 different pairs off bass bins over the last two years and im finally happy as i built ones to my spec and style which suit me perfect, used them on sunday for an outdoor gig each bass bin has two 15'' drivers and boy did they pound low and chest kicking bass that you could feel 30 foot awy and they were just ticking over! anyway are the drivers you replaced originals? if not it might be worth replacing them with a more efficient driver that has an impedance of 4 ohm so it will probably suck 500 watts out of your amp/

Fancy sharing the design of these bins, just that I experiment all the time with different designs just for fun, got some super light-weight mid horns on the go at the moment with some 8" eminence mid drivers, should give me about 112db for 1watt/1mtr. x-over at 450hz to about 5khz

Also got some Shearer bass horns on the go, 2mtrs wide and totally usless for mobile, be great for install or for my own fun. Neighbors won't be so keen though! :D

Anyway love to see these, pictures or something. :)

[gillo]

Fancy sharing the design of these bins, just that I experiment all the time with different designs just for fun, got some super light-weight mid horns on the go at the moment with some 8" eminence mid drivers, should give me about 112db for 1watt/1mtr. x-over at 450hz to about 5khz

Also got some Shearer bass horns on the go, 2mtrs wide and totally usless for mobile, be great for install or for my own fun. Neighbors won't be so keen though! :D

Anyway love to see these, pictures or something. :)

112 db 1 watt:eek: :D thats what i like to hear ;) really efficient 4 time the volume of a standard pa speaker with same power i like it:D . ye will get some pics up there great.

you cant beat the feeling over puttining together components that are very big and just hearing the sound that comes out:D

[Tony Scott]

112 db 1 watt:eek: :D thats what i like to hear ;) really efficient 4 time the volume of a standard pa speaker with same power i like it:D . ye will get some pics up there great.

you cant beat the feeling over puttining together components that are very big and just hearing the sound that comes out:D

Yeah love messing around with horns!

I saw some bass horns once in france at a teknival back in the mid 90's.

These babies had been pre-constructed and re-assembled on-site by some mad italian Tekno sound system, they were 5mtrs long with a mouth opening of 2mtr x 2mtr & were loaded with 8 x 18" drivers!!! :eek: :)
The bass was off the scale, never heard anything like it since!

[theoloyla]

Yeah love messing around with horns!

I saw some bass horns once in france at a teknival back in the mid 90's.

These babies had been pre-constructed and re-assembled on-site by some mad italian Tekno sound system, they were 5mtrs long with a mouth opening of 2mtr x 2mtr & were loaded with 8 x 18" drivers!!! :eek: :)
The bass was off the scale, never heard anything like it since!
Sounds just right for my next mobile set up!