Bi-amping.

[Penfold42]

Does anyone have an idiots guide to doing this?

As I see it - and I could be wrong....more than likely...but i'll ask anyway -

2 amps connected? - with what? and where?...:o :o
Running in stereo?

The reason I ask is - I have a gig with the band with only 4 par cans but they have a 2k pa system...which I just know they are going to crank it up, leaving little old me slight embarressed after there stint. Don't get me wrong I can make a noise but have thought of taking my spare amp anyway - allways do - so would like to link up but not really sure how?

And I only use full range speakers - can't afford any subs at the moment....:o

Thanks.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

What amps and speakers do you use Tony?

[Penfold42]

Speakers - Warrior L400's / Class-D 158
Amps - Warrior ISO 1300 / Alto Mac 2.4

Budget I know...but can make a bit of noise...:o

[Thames Valley Discos]

if i,m reading correctly, just link via jacks pass the signal from one to another.
do they have xlr and jacks on the back?
or do you mean run two amps to power only two speakers?
if two speakers run bridge mono from one amp

[Penfold42]

if i,m reading correctly, just link via jacks pass the signal from one to another.
do they have xlr and jacks on the back?
or do you mean run two amps to power only two speakers?
if two speakers run bridge mono from one amp

Do they have xlr and jacks on the back? I belive they do....everyones in the land of nod...best not disturb.

Run two amps to power 4 speakers.

If two speakers run bridge mono from one amp???:confused:
Deos this mean set to bridge at the back of both amps??

Sorry a bit thick.....:)

[Thames Valley Discos]

if running 4 speakers just link the amps via the jacks then connect speakers from the speakon outputs. i.e two speakers from each amp.
basically the jack input/outputs are in parallel to the xlr inputs

[Thames Valley Discos]

Get two jack leads. Plug into both amps from chanell 1 and two of amp 1 to chan 1 and 2 of amp 2. Then just plug speakers in each amp as usual and control the volume Independantelyfrom each amp. You are basically passing the signal from one amp to the other
Pic a bit crude but may help.

[Penfold42]

Thank you my friend.....:beer1:

I thought it was something like that...bit was not sure...so thought it best to ask. The bit that confused me was the amp connection.....:)

One more question...running them like this, does it mean one will work harder than the other or are they both working equal?

Picture fine...thanks.

[Thames Valley Discos]

They are both running independant so its up to you how hard each works. You control each amps gain to suit how you want your speakers to sound. You are only linking the signal so amp ones gain will have no effect on amp 2,s and vice versa. Your xlr leads from mixer only go to amp one BTW
Think of it like a bath and sink being connected together with a copper pipe. If you turn the tap on the sink on it will only fill the sink and not the bath You will need to turn the bath tap on too to fill that.
If you see what i mean.

[Penfold42]

:thanks:

Got it.....:beer1:

[Creature]

heres pic of mine if just using 2 tops and 2 bins use 1 amp each - but then again if using 4 bins and 4 tops then link the amps together (the yellow n white cables)

[Tony Scott]

Think of it like a bath and sink being connected together with a copper pipe. If you turn the tap on the sink on it will only fill the sink and not the bath You will need to turn the bath tap on too to fill that.
If you see what i mean.

Nice analogy!.....

.......but coz you got a Combi boiler mate there's no way your gonna get both taps to run at the same time...........tell ya wot I'll stick a nice unvented cylinder in for ya, 'bout 2grand should cover it, cash of course!

Sorry slipped into plumber mode then! :D

[CRAZY K]

Does anyone have an idiots guide to doing this?

As I see it - and I could be wrong....more than likely...but i'll ask anyway -

2 amps connected? - with what? and where?...:o :o
Running in stereo?

The reason I ask is - I have a gig with the band with only 4 par cans but they have a 2k pa system...which I just know they are going to crank it up, leaving little old me slight embarressed after there stint. Don't get me wrong I can make a noise but have thought of taking my spare amp anyway - allways do - so would like to link up but not really sure how?

And I only use full range speakers - can't afford any subs at the moment....:o

Thanks.

Could you hire subs--I think if you want lots of punch then thats the only way--

Heres an idea--start with a QUIET number so it takes the emphasis away from the loud band--if you try to start with a loud one to try and compete on volume any shortcomings will be more noticeable.

CRAZY K

[Tony Scott]

Could you hire subs--I think if you want lots of punch then thats the only way--

Heres an idea--start with a QUIET number so it takes the emphasis away from the loud band--if you try to start with a loud one to try and compete on volume any shortcomings will be more noticeable.

CRAZY K

...........or just comment on how loud they were!

Ok ladies & gents I'm sure you could do with a rest from that sonic onslaught, here's 'Lady in Red' :D

Probably only advisable if you don't mind fighting the band! :D :D

[Penfold42]

Could you hire subs--I think if you want lots of punch then thats the only way--
Heres an idea--start with a QUIET number so it takes the emphasis away from the loud band--if you try to start with a loud one to try and compete on volume any shortcomings will be more noticeable.

CRAZY K

Had thought of this but did not budget for it......:o



...........or just comment on how loud they were!

Ok ladies & gents I'm sure you could do with a rest from that sonic onslaught, here's 'Lady in Red' :D
Probably only advisable if you don't mind fighting the band! :D :D

Have thought about this too and this maybe the option I use.

Venue is not big...maybe 200 max.....some more thought needed.

Thanks people.

[Thames Valley Discos]

If its only 200 people i would not worry. Single amp would do fine. Bands always sound louder than discos anyway.
If you are still concerned just biamp with four speakers. You will sound crystal clear with good coverage. I did 300+ on sunday with one amp and two speakers more than enough sound for a large room.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Wait for the band to finish, kill all available lights, and wait...

As soon as you hear a cough or some indication that people aren't sure what's going on...


"Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again,
Because a vision softly creeping,
Left its seeds while I was sleeping,
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence..." :D

[Tony Scott]

Bands always sound louder than discos anyway.


I find that generally bands look down on Disco's thinking that we're not 'real' entertainment, I'd like to see them graft for 2hrs setting up with one person and then play a 7hr set!

I never give them the satifaction of being louder, if I know I'm playing with a loud band I usually take 6k out. Normally does the trick!! :D

[Thames Valley Discos]

why be as loud as a band, most are too loud to hear, distorted,deafening, id rather they hear what i,m playing.
you only need to fill the dancefloor with sound not the entire room. Some people want to talk... let them.
6k, is that into 2 ohm bridge mono:D

[Penfold42]

If its only 200 people i would not worry. Single amp would do fine. Bands always sound louder than discos anyway.
If you are still concerned just biamp with four speakers. You will sound crystal clear with good coverage. I did 300+ on sunday with one amp and two speakers more than enough sound for a large room.

Correct.....but the guy in the group works with me......plenty of stick going around at the moment.....:D
I also agree that having a conversation without shouting is what I call a disco not shouting at one another to be heard...

Right....take all the gear and make ready for bi-amping......he who dares win's!!!:D

[Thames Valley Discos]

Correct.....but the guy in the group works with me......plenty of stick going around at the moment.....:D
I also agree that having a conversation without shouting is what I call a disco not shouting at one another to be heard...

Right....take all the gear and make ready for bi-amping......he who dares win's!!!:D

good luck, i,m sure your sound fine. Also ask your friend if he can select and play one of 20.000 songs at the drop of a hat... bet you could!!!

[Penfold42]

good luck, i,m sure your sound fine. Also ask your friend if he can select and play one of 20.000 songs at the drop of a hat... bet you could!!!

Thanks...will keep you informed.

LOL.....I've already been saying that along with 'Call yourself a band with 4 pars!!!'....:riceandrob:

It's been quite fun really....as his friend is the DJ that dropped out at the last minute.....LOL...the wedding I picked up with 2 hours to prep...

He was pokeing fun at my business card saying 'Reliable and Professional Mobile Disco'....what that then.....
My reply 'Errr....One that turn's up?'....:D :D :D

Not much after that......:tumble:

[colint]

Would the band not let you go through there system? this is something I always do when I'm doing pa work!

it's so much easier to put the Dj through the same P.A and looks better with not so many speakers as well!

[Penfold42]

Would the band not let you go through there system? this is something I always do when I'm doing pa work!

it's so much easier to put the Dj through the same P.A and looks better with not so many speakers as well!

Mentioned it to him...he has the early bit...want's to pack up and go.
Can't blame him for that....tight git.:)

[colint]

I find that generally bands look down on Disco's thinking that were not 'real' entertainment, I'd like to see them graft for 2hrs setting up with one person and then play a 7hr set!

I never give them the satifaction of being louder, if I know I'm playing with a loud band I usually take 6k out. Normally does the trick!! :D

you might also like to point out to them that without the airtime Dj's give them most band bands would still playing in the local pub! they need us & we need them shame most of them don't see this

I had simular with my brothers band (60's soul/funk band) until I'd did a gig at one of their wedding's and I played their whole set list in the same order they play it, that shut them up! now they look forward to gigs with me & most of the time they use my P.a

[Tony Scott]

why be as loud as a band, most are too loud to hear, distorted,deafening, id rather they hear what i,m playing.
you only need to fill the dancefloor with sound not the entire room. Some people want to talk... let them.



6k, is that into 2 ohm bridge mono:D

Wow 2 ohm bridged mono..................now that would be an amp! :D :D

Good point about the 'too loud to hear, distorted & deafening' issue, bands are usually all of these things, unless they are hiring in a properly engineered PA system.

This is exactly why I take out a big system in these situations so that I can follow the band with as much controlled power as I need to make the
transition smoothly and without the need to push my kit to the point of it being uncomfortable to listen to.

Just coz I take out 6k it doesn't have to sound unbearably loud or used to it's full capacity.

I always take out more sound than I need so I can keep the sound full, clean and intelligable. I very rarely get asked to turn it down and go to a lot of trouble to get it sounding spot on.

Oh and I love taking it all out!!! Big Boys Toys!! :D :D

[colint]

Wow 2 ohm bridged mono..................now that would be an amp! :D :D

Good point about the 'too loud to hear, distorted & deafening' issue, bands are usually all of these things, unless they are hiring in a properly engineered PA system.

This is exactly why I take out a big system in these situations so that I can follow the band with as much controlled power as I need to make the
transition smoothly and without the need to push my kit to the point of it being uncomfortable to listen to.

Just coz I take out 6k it doesn't have to sound unbearably loud or used to it's full capacity.

I always take out more sound than I need so I can keep the sound full, clean and intelligable. I very rarely get asked to turn it down and go to a lot of trouble to get it sounding spot on.

Oh and I love taking it all out!!! Big Boys Toys!! :D :D

Ditto! big kit always worth the trouble

[Ricesnaps]

mmmm, wouldn't an active crossover be a good idea here?

[Thames Valley Discos]

mmmm, wouldn't an active crossover be a good idea here?

cheaper to biamp for a one off gig

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

mmmm, wouldn't an active crossover be a good idea here?

Pointless if he has all full range cabs surely?

[Ricesnaps]

Pointless if he has all full range cabs surely?

Having re-read the original post, quite possibly

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Having re-read the original post, quite possibly

:zip:

[Excalibur]

Does anyone have an idiots guide to doing this?

As I see it - and I could be wrong....more than likely...but i'll ask anyway -

2 amps connected? - with what? and where?...:o :o
Running in stereo?

The reason I ask is - I have a gig with the band with only 4 par cans but they have a 2k pa system...which I just know they are going to crank it up, leaving little old me slight embarressed after there stint. Don't get me wrong I can make a noise but have thought of taking my spare amp anyway - allways do - so would like to link up but not really sure how?

And I only use full range speakers - can't afford any subs at the moment....:o

Thanks.

Unless I'm missing something, isn't it easiest to feed one amp with main mixer output, and one with booth output? Splitting a signal to the amps results in reduced output surely?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Unless I'm missing something, isn't it easiest to feed one amp with main mixer output, and one with booth output? Splitting a signal to the amps results in reduced output surely?

No, 'cos you're not splitting, just slaving from one to another. (That's the way I read it anyway)

[Sapphire Disco]

Unless I'm missing something, isn't it easiest to feed one amp with main mixer output, and one with booth output? Splitting a signal to the amps results in reduced output surely?

Yes that's what I thought , I think the original post was more to ask what power you would get from joining up 2x approx 500 w amps together then joining 2 pairs of 8omh speakers to run them at 4ohms from the 2 amps.
That was my take on it also I would like to know :)

[PropellerHeadCase]

I thought the point was to use the through lines on the first amp to feed the second - no loss in power, just a line level signal passing from the mixer to an amp, then from that amp to the next. That's how I run my school balls.

[Tony Scott]

I thought the point was to use the through lines on the first amp to feed the second - no loss in power, just a line level signal passing from the mixer to an amp, then from that amp to the next. That's how I run my school balls.

Yep! Daisy Chaining, all modern amps are designed to do this without degrading the signal.

[Excalibur]

if running 4 speakers just link the amps via the jacks then connect speakers from the speakon outputs. i.e two speakers from each amp.
basically the jack input/outputs are in parallel to the xlr inputs

I believe if I read this right, it is being suggested that one set of INPUTS is joined to another set of INPUTS. That is splitting a signal, loss of output. When I was a lad, all amps had a line OUTPUT socket. You could daisy chain as many as you like, cos the signal had come through a pre amp, therefore no loss of output. IMHO Daisy chaining is input to output ad infinitum, NOT joining eight amps in parallel to one mixer output.
I repeat, surely your mixer has two individually controlled outputs, join one amp and two full range speakers to one, and the other to the other. Individual control of both outputs from mixer, what more could you want?Robert is your mother's brother. Or is this just too simple?

[Tony Scott]

I believe if I read this right, it is being suggested that one set of INPUTS is joined to another set of INPUTS. That is splitting a signal, loss of output. When I was a lad, all amps had a line OUTPUT socket. You could daisy chain as many as you like, cos the signal had come through a pre amp, therefore no loss of output. IMHO Daisy chaining is input to output ad infinitum, NOT joining eight amps in parallel to one mixer output.
I repeat, surely your mixer has two individually controlled outputs, join one amp and two full range speakers to one, and the other to the other. Individual control of both outputs from mixer, what more could you want?Robert is your mother's brother. Or is this just too simple?

I agree, splitting the signal is a big no no, the signal will be degraded & it will completely screw up the impedence.

Daisy chaining is exactly as suggested, no loss of signal quality. IMHO this is the best & most professional approach.

The issue with using a booth/secondary mixer output would be one of quality and level monitoring.
Most mixers do not have a balanced XLR output as a secondary. They also very rarely have a VU output meter for the secondary meaning the output to the amp could not be effectively monitored.

That said, using a booth out for the second amp could be a simple fix but IMHO not the best. :)