Going on from another one to report...

[Penfold42]

On a slightly different note from 'Another one to report'...how do you feel about DJ's using dodgy music.
I don't use copied CD's.....won't go into that....get's boring!!

I know 2 DJ's that do this...there not down loads...take my word for it I know...

I don't what to name...or say anything else about them on here.

Question is 'Would you report them?' the same as the e-bayers??

[Thames Valley Discos]

i personally would not, i just think people on ebay are kinda pushing it under your nose, a step too far

[BeerFunk]

A big difference is that it is really easy to report people on eBay, and you know that your report will be acted on. I happen to know that 'small time' piracy is a very low priority for the police to deal with (well, my local police force, anyway)

[Dragonfly]

Ive said this before but last time i did a boot sale on a sunday ..... 3 bootleg stalls ........all rammed from the moment they arrived until the moment they finished.

my wedding on friday groom was a copper , his dad was a copper his best man was a copper and no doubt a few guests too ........

"heres our first dance mate incase you havent got it" handing me a cd-wr yes which could have been off i tunes payed for etc but just made me think ..... of course didnt use it anyway as i have lonestar - amazed on about 5 cds anyway lol.

[Penfold42]

"heres our first dance mate incase you havent got it" handing me a cd-wr yes which could have been off i tunes payed for etc but just made me think ..... of course didnt use it anyway as i have lonestar - amazed on about 5 cds anyway lol.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Don't tell me they all had a really good time...enough to drink and they all took a taxi home.:)

But that's another thread.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

On a slightly different note from 'Another one to report'...how do you feel about DJ's using dodgy music.
I don't use copied CD's.....won't go into that....get's boring!!

I know 2 DJ's that do this...there not down loads...take my word for it I know...

I don't what to name...or say anything else about them on here.

Question is 'Would you report them?' the same as the e-bayers??

That depends on whether they actually had bought a copy of the original disc or whether they had made their own compilations up to use.

I think there's a great deal of difference personally.

[Thames Valley Discos]

I personally think what others do is up to them, its just when you see it Blatantly put before you. i.e ebay etc then i feel it becomes my business.

[Dragonfly]

On a slightly different note from 'Another one to report'...how do you feel about DJ's using dodgy music.
I don't use copied CD's.....won't go into that....get's boring!!

I know 2 DJ's that do this...there not down loads...take my word for it I know...

I don't what to name...or say anything else about them on here.

Question is 'Would you report them?' the same as the e-bayers??

I met a guy last year who asked me if I'd bought all my cds legit when i said yes he went on to tell me he'd never actually bought an original cd ever and could get anything i wanted for a fiver... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[jamesh]

hmmm think it's a tricky one... Out and Out piracy and illegal download i don't agree with - not for proessional use BUT....

If it's a case of using copied CD's to protect the original (which you also own) then i think that's ok and i have no problem with it at all... At the end of the day our homes are protected by burglar alarms, our cars by car alarms etc.... but there is no real way to protect your cd's at a gig... Well other than only taking copies... Then if some little so and so runs off with the wallet... yeah it's a pain but at least you haven't just lost thousands of pounds of CD's...

[Dragonfly]

understand what you are saying but ...... if you were to be really pedantic you dont drive around in a second car to keep the first one from getting dirty .... or live in a separate house to keep the carpets clean in the first ...

different people have different ideas about what is acceptable and what isnt.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

At the end of the day our homes are protected by burglar alarms, our cars by car alarms etc.... but there is no real way to protect your cd's at a gig... Well other than only taking copies... Then if some little so and so runs off with the wallet... yeah it's a pain but at least you haven't just lost thousands of pounds of CD's...

I've never agreed with that analogy.

CDs are tools of our business. Business tools are there to be used to earn money and if they get worn out or stolen you need to replace them.

If you were that worried about someone nicking them, then:

A: Get them insured
B: Make copies of the originals as backup at home.

What happens if someone nicks any other part of your gear? You need to replace it, so I don't see this is any different.

Perhaps it's easy for me to say as I use a computer, but when I did use CDs, I never ever used copies for DJing. Just a personal choice and I'm not condeming those who do use copies of their own discs for DJing, but this is a business and things have to be replaced sometimes.

[BeerFunk]

I've never agreed with that analogy.

CDs are tools of our business. Business tools are there to be used to earn money and if they get worn out or stolen you need to replace them.

If you were that worried about someone nicking them, then:

A: Get them insured
B: Make copies of the originals as backup at home.

What happens if someone nicks any other part of your gear? You need to replace it, so I don't see this is any different.

Perhaps it's easy for me to say as I use a computer, but when I did use CDs, I never ever used copies for DJing. Just a personal choice and I'm not condeming those who do use copies of their own discs for DJing, but this is a business and things have to be replaced sometimes.
I used to make copies of all my CDs, but now I just use the originals. Firstly, I think it's far more professional, and secondly, the original CDs are much harder to scratch and are of much better quality. I don't have any songs skipping at my discos, as I have heard at other discos.

[Paul James Promotions]

Was talking with our usual Karaoke disk supplier recently. They were told about somebody who was both using copied CD's and also selling copies. They gave all the details to the relevant people, and were told that there was nothing they could do!

[Thames Valley Discos]

easiest answer is get a fair licence sorted then have venues insist on seeing one before you dj. Although having said that i did some Devere hotels recently who never even asked for PAT orl PLI. Come to think of it, only ever been asked the once!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

easiest answer is get a fair licence sorted then have venues insist on seeing one before you dj. Although having said that i did some Devere hotels recently who never even asked for PAT orl PLI. Come to think of it, only ever been asked the once!

I'm getting asked regularly now in Hotels.

I did a Devere Hotel recently and had to show both, but can't remember which one now!

[Thames Valley Discos]

i feel left out then.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

i feel left out then.

I actually offer these days as I find it makes a good impression.

You can show yours to me if you like Paul...:eek: :D :D

[Thames Valley Discos]

I actually offered to show it Sunday, the manager said oh, remind me later!!!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I actually offered to show it Sunday, the manager said oh, remind me later!!!

That's also happened to me a couple of times after people have told me that venues are soooooo strict about it.

Makes you laugh how casual some people are about it.

[jamesh]

I've never agreed with that analogy.

CDs are tools of our business. Business tools are there to be used to earn money and if they get worn out or stolen you need to replace them.

If you were that worried about someone nicking them, then:

A: Get them insured
B: Make copies of the originals as backup at home.

What happens if someone nicks any other part of your gear? You need to replace it, so I don't see this is any different.

Perhaps it's easy for me to say as I use a computer, but when I did use CDs, I never ever used copies for DJing. Just a personal choice and I'm not condeming those who do use copies of their own discs for DJing, but this is a business and things have to be replaced sometimes.

I can see your point darren and mine are insured (mainly computer based anyway but always take them as back up) but i don't see much point in making copies and leaving the copies at home - what would happen if the originals did get stolen? the chances are you are more likely just to copy the copy and use that on the road and then not have an original.

At least by taking the copy on the road with you if it does get nicked - you can just copy the original again no problem.... No hassle and it also helps to keep the insurance premium down - as lets face it one of the easiest things to nick from a dj is the CD's...

Just my 2p worth on the matter anyway.... i'm still 100% against people buying copies for a £5 and not owning the original OR illegally downloading and burning the album/single to a CD for use and not owning the original ... That is wrong... But i think if you have the original and you want a copy for backup - whether the original remains the back up or the copy is the backup... then that is ok...

I don't think there is a 100% right or wrong answer to it... At least not at the moment.... Much like the ripping music / music videos or karaoke to use for computer DKing debait...

AS for the PAT and PLI etc... i think more DJ's should be making a point of asking the venue manager if they want to see the certificates and if they say no then tell them why they should be checking them..... not forgetting to mention EVERY DJ should have them and be inspected for them... You never know the next time the venue manager may ask to see them if the DJ doesn't offer them and it might put a few more £50 in it for a quick few quid, tax dodgers out of business.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I know we agree on the main points James, it's just the whole buying CDs to use to make money from Djing and then leaving the originals at home that I just don't get.

Every business has risks after all.

[Penfold42]

Interesting....

Would agree with e-bayers....not interested in the slightest - report them all.

Would probably leave these guys alone even though I know there source.....as you have touched on PAT / PLI these two also don't have any.....very, very interesting.

The only reason I mention it is because I put myself through the hoops why shouldn't they.....I already know that answer....being 'Professional'....;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

.....as you have touched on PAT / PLI these two also don't have any.....very, very interesting.



Not a legal requirement though, even though you'd be a bit silly not to get it sorted.

[jamesh]

I know we agree on the main points James, it's just the whole buying CDs to use to make money from Djing and then leaving the originals at home that I just don't get.

Every business has risks after all.

True but if you can minimise the risk on your investment surly that's a good thing and something we should all be doing...

[Penfold42]

On CD's....I actually pack these away first, Lock and key and in the car alarmed until everything else is ready to be put away.....strange...:)

[Penfold42]

Not a legal requirement though, even though you'd be a bit silly not to get it sorted.

Yes i know it's not legal......but your right need's looking at. Just makes you wonder what people buy...;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

True but if you can minimise the risk on your investment surly that's a good thing and something we should all be doing...

Well, no, 'cos you buy CDs to use to make money from and if they do go missing you claim on insurance or buy them again.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one James. :) :boxer2: :cool:

[jamesh]

ha ha ha ok ok ok i agree to disagree..... :P:D

Mind you i'm 99% computer DJ these days any way... and with a second fully functioning computer system up and running at a gig as back up i shouldn't really need to take any cd's with me... but never hurts to have a back up for the back up lol! :D:D:D

[PropellerHeadCase]

How is copying a CD that you own and using the copy any different from copying a CD that you own and playing the MP3 from your computer? And how is it different to buying an MP4 off iTunes and playing the CD out? Come to that, how is it any different from installing software on your lap-top and then putting the install CD in a safe?

Yes, wear and tear and theft are a fact of life when in business but so is mitigating potential loss by being sensible, in fact insurance companies require that you take sensible precautions to mitigate loss. I own thousands of CDs and play dozens every week - and buy dozens every week - my budget won't easily stretch to re-buying stuff, especially as many of the singles are no longer available (not even on eBay or iTunes).

Stolen copies are less saleable than stolen originals and thus less of a temptation. Given that some of the originals were imports that cost me $100 I'm sure as heck not risking that investment!

[Dragonfly]

Just my 2p worth on the matter anyway.... i'm still 100% against people buying copies for a £5 and not owning the original OR illegally downloading and burning the album/single to a CD for use and not owning the original ... That is wrong... But i think if you have the original and you want a copy for backup - whether the original remains the back up or the copy is the backup... then that is ok...

.

have to say i agree to a point to my mind if you buy something legally it is yours to own you have paid all the people that should be payed and therefore should be able to do what you wish with it ..... that is you personally not allowing others to copy it or selling copies that you make but for you to use in anyway you see fit.

i also believe that if you have a hard drive full of legal mp3s and wish to sell your disco business you should be able to sell the music too .... obviously this would only have to apply to downloads obtained legally or you would have to include the original cds too , I can understand that this would be almost unpolicable ........ but thats not our problem its for the government to sort out instead of ignore.

[Dillmiester]

When I was CD based I didnt make copys of them and fortunetly they were never stolen of damaged.
Since ripping them all onto computer I have made a complete back up on a seperate hard drive, this is locked away safely at home. Im still not 100% confident with computers and would not like to spend weeks ripping the CD's again. Yes its a pain having to update two hard drives every week or so but its the safest system I have so far.
We should be allowed to make copys of music we own. My back up at gigs is a 2 gig mp3 player which again is loaded up with floor fillers from the main hard drive, probably still illegal in some interpretation but not in my mind.

[Dragonfly]

the other scenario i have thought about which i think ive posted before but cant remember apologies if i have

you are married/have a long term partner you live together and have a huge joint 5000 cd collection which being a dj you have ripped to your hard drive to use at gigs.....

one day you get home early and find the other half engrossed in the neighbour...... you throw her out and its all over she takes all of or her share of the cd collection........... do you then have to delete from the hard drive all the tracks that she took with her?? i suspect you probably would have to?

this is unlikely im sure you will agree but not impossible to happen. whats the plan ? genuine question.

[BeerFunk]

the other scenario i have thought about which i think ive posted before but cant remember apologies if i have

you are married/have a long term partner you live together and have a huge joint 5000 cd collection which being a dj you have ripped to your hard drive to use at gigs.....

one day you get home early and find the other half engrossed in the neighbour...... you throw her out and its all over she takes all of or her share of the cd collection........... do you then have to delete from the hard drive all the tracks that she took with her?? i suspect you probably would have to?

this is unlikely im sure you will agree but not impossible to happen. whats the plan ? genuine question.
The problem there is that you are confusing business with home entertainment, and you are asking for trouble! It would be a daft way to go about things, you have to look at possible consequences :)

[theoloyla]

Where crooks are selling pirates at boot fairs I have no problem reporting them but it is Trading Standards who need to be told not the police or get straight onto the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) who have a full time investigator doing these scabs.
I too have met crooked dj's who dont buy legitimate music and the same is even more true of line dance instructors which isnt helped by choreographers who write dances to deleted or obscure recordings which are very dificult to obtain legally. Even worse I have met lots of club dj's and line dance teachers who make and sell compilation cd's to their customers. I refuse to do it and so far I have never reported anyone but maybe one day I will. It is just pain wrong.

[Dragonfly]

The problem there is that you are confusing business with home entertainment, and you are asking for trouble! It would be a daft way to go about things, you have to look at possible consequences :)


indeed it would ... but its a scenario that could happen and probably does so the question remains what would be the outcome?

ok thought about this some more ...... change it a little.

you are at a gig you use laptop or hd player but have your cds there just incase some sneaky little poo swipes a case and you for whatever reason dont have your music collection insured ....... do you have to delete the tracks that have been nicked from the lappy etc as you no longer have the original cds?

or you have a cd bought in 1989 which is scratched to the ends of the earth no longer plays a single track but you burned them to pc a few years ago and they play do you have to keep the useless piece of plastic you now own to prove you have the album.

[theoloyla]

indeed it would ... but its a scenario that could happen and probably does so the question remains what would be the outcome?

ok thought about this some more ...... change it a little.

you are at a gig you use laptop or hd player but have your cds there just incase some sneaky little poo swipes a case and you for whatever reason dont have your music collection insured ....... do you have to delete the tracks that have been nicked from the lappy etc as you no longer have the original cds?

or you have a cd bought in 1989 which is scratched to the ends of the earth no longer plays a single track but you burned them to pc a few years ago and they play do you have to keep the useless piece of plastic you now own to prove you have the album.
As I understand it the answer is yes. Silly isnt it? The law in this country is very strange but that doesnt mean to say it is enforced. There are loads of things written in old statutes that have never been repealed but fortunately the police and judiciary use some discretion.