I Pod Discos ( again)

[CRAZY K]

This is getting beyond a joke chaps and chapesses.

Have received the second similar email in a fortnight as below--

We're looking for about an hour long set, as a traditional barn dance, with caller, aimed at relative novices, so we need someone who's good in terms of directing all the guests as to what they should be doing! We would then look to have a disco, based on our own playlist via I-Pod, played through a sound system, and would need someone to stay on to look after this.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Anyone else getting this kind of request ( apart from Darren )

Doesnt bode too well for the future of Wedding Discos ???

Im not bothered personally as I cant be replaced by an I pod but it seems to confirm the view of some of us that clients input to their music is going to be a lot more of a priority in future.

I spose they think it will cost another ten quid for the band PA to be kept there all night--while they save a fortune on a DJ:eek:

CRAZY K

[PropellerHeadCase]

I dunno, we've had the discussion on a wedding forum here in NZ, with Brides throwing in their two penn'orth... one of the DJs said, and I happen to agree with him, that people who are considering an iPod aren't really in the market for a DJ. Whether it's an issue of price or what they believe a DJ will do with their music it's just not worth up-selling them to a DJ. Many of the brides agreed, saying that if they'd decided on an iPod, for whatever reason, the possibility of being convinced to go with a DJ instead were virtually nil.

Of course in the case you mention, Alan, you could tell them that baby-sitting the sound system will cost them as much as a DJ anyway, because people will still come up asking for requests and such.

[Dragonfly]

i've not had it yet only thinng I get a bit of is our mate is a dj also can he do an hour on your gear please??

but if someone wants to put an ipod in with legal downloads on and its all above board and legit im happy personally to sit and make sure it doesnt stop for a couple of hundred quid. as long as that is made known thats all im doing?

i bet youd be expected to provide back up to them if their ipod cream crackered and make announcements dj style though.

have to be careful just what you end up providing.

[Larry B Entertainment]

i've not had it yet only thinng I get a bit of is our mate is a dj also can he do an hour on your gear please??

Its amazing how many people have mates that are DJ's. All this untapped talent going around ;)

[CRAZY K]

Its amazing how many people have mates that are DJ's. All this untapped talent going around ;)

HMMMM

DJ maybe---but talent????????????????????

CRAZY K

[Ricesnaps]

Sometimes I'm not sure that people actually have any concept of what other people really want or apreciate that their own taste in music is actually just that, their own!

Don't get me wrong, I take the money and do the gigs, the client is always right and the one paying my wages and before anyone says otherwise, I do discuss my feeling and opinions with all of my clients. Some are a little more stubourn than others!

I think wedding clients fit into a few catagories. You have the "we want to have a great time / the entertainment is really important to us" client, who may or may not also fit into the "I want to pick all my own music" brigade, but who want to be able to have a great time, dance and enjoy themselves.

Then we have the "I guess I've got to have something" client. These are the ones who really couldn't care whether there's a DJ or a cassette player running as they don't like to dance, don't enjoy disco's but feel they need to have something for the evening function. I wonder if it's this type of client who would end up being the "IPod" client, not because they know best, but because they didn't really want a DJ anyway?

Either way, the who concept of unqualified clients dictating the music they expect there guests to enjoy and dance too is always going to be a difficult call. I have a wedding this weekend with some great choices from the bride, but she has also gone through her own CD collection and listed every track she likes on the album. I have explained that obscure S Club 7 album tracks are probably not a great idea, but she's the client (although I did get the feeling the groom hadn't had much say in the lists!).

I wonder if for some clients the "equipment hire" is the right solution?

[DJ Frankie]

I too would be happy to run the night on there ipod, at the end of the day I will still charge the same price whether I DJ or not as they are going to need me to babysit the ipod plus the use of my PA and lights..
I would also make it clear to the guest that the B&G or the event orgainiser has provided you with an ipod.
Plus it would be great in a smuggish way when guest come up asking to change music because its rubbish to be able to tell them that you are playing what the booker has asked and provided.

[Dragonfly]

I too would be happy to run the night on there ipod, at the end of the day I will still charge the same price whether I DJ or not as they are going to need me to babysit the ipod plus the use of my PA and lights..
I would also make it clear to the guest that the B&G or the event orgainiser has provided you with an ipod.
Plus it would be great in a smuggish way when guest come up asking to change music because its rubbish to be able to tell them that you are playing what the booker has asked and provided.

and you'll probably get an early night like my salsa wedding in December ..... loading the car at 9pm.

could be painful to watch though .... think id find myself really wanting to ressurect things if it was going badly down hill to just sit and watch while the nightmare they had created for themselves unfolds would take a strong stomach.

[CRAZY K]

I too would be happy to run the night on there ipod, at the end of the day I will still charge the same price whether I DJ or not as they are going to need me to babysit the ipod plus the use of my PA and lights..
I would also make it clear to the guest that the B&G or the event orgainiser has provided you with an ipod.
Plus it would be great in a smuggish way when guest come up asking to change music because its rubbish to be able to tell them that you are playing what the booker has asked and provided.

Corabar ( Angela) made a very good point to me recently--most of this I pod music may well be illegal---so who has their equipment confiscated if you get busted--answers on the back of a pinhead please.

Good points there Matt--but I dont think theres a half way house for DJs with equipment--you either turn up and be active---or like Darren hire the kit out and go off and do another paid job.

Im absolutely sure the people who take this---my I pod through your equipment---approach are looking for a cheapo deal---no question.

In my case they just contacted the wrong person:D

CRAZY K

[theoloyla]

When you think about it outside of discos some people are good hosts and others are not. Sometimes when you get an invite to someone's house you think "Great we'll have a good night" other times you think "Oh no we've got to go there again".

[PropellerHeadCase]

Much the same as, "Oh, we have to hire a DJ... remember that crap DJ at Club X?"


I agree, Matt, the "Oh, I have to have something" client, indeed.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

you either turn up and be active---or like Darren hire the kit out and go off and do another paid job.

Im absolutely sure the people who take this---my I pod through your equipment---approach are looking for a cheapo deal---no question.



Now, here's the thing.

When I hired the PA's to the people getting married, some had Ipods and some had laptops. As it was a straight hire for a couple of hundred quid, I didn't want to get involved with trying to talk them round to having a DJ. It's their wedding, so they can do what they want.

The first time it happened, the guy had a laptop running SAM and as the room wasn't ready for the PA to go into, we ended up chatting. It turns out that he didn't think that DJs used this kind of technology yet and also that because he had a 60s themed wedding, he didn't think that DJs would handle or entertain playlists and also wouldn't have the right music for him.

Anyway, I explained what DJs can do these days in terms of event planning, bespoke wedding discos and requests and he was very shocked and said he had no idea that DJs could do that.

As far as the financial aspect goes, I told him for around the £400-£500 mark we could have organised all that for him and he said if he'd have known that there are companies that could have done that, he would have booked it.

So it's not always down to money - I think that some people have talked to the wrong DJs who don't play requests and won't entertain any of the above with regard to theming etc

[Ricesnaps]

The first time it happened, the guy had a laptop running SAM and as the room wasn't ready for the PA to go into, we ended up chatting. It turns out that he didn't think that DJs used this kind of technology yet and also that because he had a 60s themed wedding, he didn't think that DJs would handle or entertain playlists and also wouldn't have the right music for him.

Anyway, I explained what DJs can do these days in terms of event planning, bespoke wedding discos and requests and he was very shocked and said he had no idea that DJs could do that.


What fantastic market research! I guess the trick now is to work out how to make sure people know we can do that. This is generally the theme that has been coming out of the wedding market for a while now, hadn't considered that clients didn't think we actually offered that sort of service. You learn something new....

However, thinking along the dry hire type route for weddings, doesn't the very nature of providing PA hire reduce the amount of DJ work you actually get. I mean, every wedding that hire's the PA is one less wedding wanting a DJ. I guess the flip side is where you have a full and busy year and can't offer two rigs, you might get the work by offering the PA. Just seems a way of loosing better work to me. maybe I'm wrong?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

What fantastic market research! I guess the trick now is to work out how to make sure people know we can do that. This is generally the theme that has been coming out of the wedding market for a while now, hadn't considered that clients didn't think we actually offered that sort of service. You learn something new....

However, thinking along the dry hire type route for weddings, doesn't the very nature of providing PA hire reduce the amount of DJ work you actually get. I mean, every wedding that hire's the PA is one less wedding wanting a DJ. I guess the flip side is where you have a full and busy year and can't offer two rigs, you might get the work by offering the PA. Just seems a way of loosing better work to me. maybe I'm wrong?

Why would I lose work. I am a multi-op, so have people to go and set up PA's and floors etc. There are 7 of us, all DJs, some KJs, some quizmasters and all can set up PA's etc if need be.

I charged the first chap £200 for a pair of 10"speakers and powered mixer and the wedding was on a Sunday. I dropped off on Sunday lunchtime and picked up Monday morning. Most of the hires need to be in during the morning and picked up on a Sunday morning, so where is the loss of business there?

[CRAZY K]

Now, here's the thing.

When I hired the PA's to the people getting married, some had Ipods and some had laptops. As it was a straight hire for a couple of hundred quid, I didn't want to get involved with trying to talk them round to having a DJ. It's their wedding, so they can do what they want.

The first time it happened, the guy had a laptop running SAM and as the room wasn't ready for the PA to go into, we ended up chatting. It turns out that he didn't think that DJs used this kind of technology yet and also that because he had a 60s themed wedding, he didn't think that DJs would handle or entertain playlists and also wouldn't have the right music for him.

Anyway, I explained what DJs can do these days in terms of event planning, bespoke wedding discos and requests and he was very shocked and said he had no idea that DJs could do that.

As far as the financial aspect goes, I told him for around the £400-£500 mark we could have organised all that for him and he said if he'd have known that there are companies that could have done that, he would have booked it.

So it's not always down to money - I think that some people have talked to the wrong DJs who don't play requests and won't entertain any of the above with regard to theming etc

I mean that they wouldnt expect to pay much for the I pod afterwards facility---if you see what I mean--they just dont understand no one likes getting home at 2 in the morning unless getting paid properly:eek:

Interesting certainly--I have always advertised ( rightly or wrongly ) the theme of " Your choice disco" as Rice knows :D

Yes Matt, I think we are on the slippery slope--either through ignorance and, lack of information --heading towards Daves Flashing Juke Box.

And yes I think it will begin to reduce Disco work---maybe a good time to open an Ipod Disco hire service?

I suppose again the problem is if people think hiring a DJ is just going to be an expensive I pod exercise then who can blame them--thats another thread though--are you entertaining --do you use the mike--ok im going-theres plenty of gardening to do here :D :D :D

OUT OF INTEREST LAST SATURDAY THEY HAD AN I POD PLAYING THROUGH THE BANDS RATHER INADEQUATE PA BEFORE I DID MY BARN DANCE SPOT--

SIGN OF THE TIMES:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K

[Ricesnaps]

Why would I lose work. I am a multi-op, so have people to go and set up PA's and floors etc. There are 7 of us, all DJs, some KJs, some quizmasters and all can set up PA's etc if need be.

I charged the first chap £200 for a pair of 10"speakers and powered mixer and the wedding was on a Sunday. I dropped off on Sunday lunchtime and picked up Monday morning. Most of the hires need to be in during the morning and picked up on a Sunday morning, so where is the loss of business there?

Sorry, missunderstood what I was saying...

10 people in your area need wedding entertainment. 5 of them choose to ask for PA hire rather than a DJ, the other 5 book the DJ. That means that you have 5 clients who you could have booked a disco for who have booked a PA hire instead. So my question was, does pushing PA hire loose you disco bookings? Maybe the 5 people who book the PA, if they couldn't book the PA would have booked a disco?

[DJWayne]

I think a lot of it is about control some people want to have complete control of everything on their wedding and by having a PA hire rather than a disco they feel they can achieve this. Simply beacaause they can play the music they want doesn't mean the guests will enjoy themselves, usually far from it.

I have had a wedding in the past where i was given a 4 page list of tracks to be played at a wedding in the precise order they were listed in. I tried to gently dissuade the bride from this a few weeks before the wedding but she was adamant so i went along with it. After the first 90 mins of the evening party when everybody was sat there bored out of their minds she came over and asked me what was wrong so i told her that doing what we do is not as simple as writing a list of tracks. She then decided it may be an idea to let me do what i do best and a swift recovery to the evening took place which resulted in a nice tip at the end of it. But the problem is peoople still think our job is easy so until that myth is dispelled we are going to have the ipod / track list people thinking they know better than us.

[CRAZY K]

I think a lot of it is about control some people want to have complete control of everything on their wedding and by having a PA hire rather than a disco they feel they can achieve this. Simply beacaause they can play the music they want doesn't mean the guests will enjoy themselves, usually far from it.

I have had a wedding in the past where i was given a 4 page list of tracks to be played at a wedding in the precise order they were listed in. I tried to gently dissuade the bride from this a few weeks before the wedding but she was adamant so i went along with it. After the first 90 mins of the evening party when everybody was sat there bored out of their minds she came over and asked me what was wrong so i told her that doing what we do is not as simple as writing a list of tracks. She then decided it may be an idea to let me do what i do best and a swift recovery to the evening took place which resulted in a nice tip at the end of it. But the problem is peoople still think our job is easy so until that myth is dispelled we are going to have the ipod / track list people thinking they know better than us.

Its all down to "know your friends"

I had an identical situation on my last wedding gig.

Split into three sections and a final 6 tracks which HAD to be played in strict order.

To be fair it worked out superbly because the Band G and their friends shared similar musical tastes.

They were Disco dancing all night as well as Barn Dancing.

There were a few requests but they were from the B and G playlist.

So it can work---BUT PROBABLY NOT THAT OFTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry, missunderstood what I was saying...

10 people in your area need wedding entertainment. 5 of them choose to ask for PA hire rather than a DJ, the other 5 book the DJ. That means that you have 5 clients who you could have booked a disco for who have booked a PA hire instead. So my question was, does pushing PA hire loose you disco bookings? Maybe the 5 people who book the PA, if they couldn't book the PA would have booked a disco?

I didn't mis-understand at all Rice. You didn't take my answer in.

Any PA hires will be on top of other weddings or DJing jobs. They can be delivered AM and picked up AM and therefore the DJ can go and do a wedding etc. If people have already made their mind up about what they want to do, you can't start trying to change it!

I think you're looking into this way too deeply. If they couldn't book the PA from me, then they'd go elsewhere and book one. Simple as that.

I haven't 'lost' a disco booking because I've supplied a PA, I've just gained a PA booking. That's what they wanted and that's what they'll get.

If someoe came to me to book a dance floor and I wouldn't try and sell them a quiz night would I?

My main income is still from discos. Anything else is supplementry, and so doesn't get 'pushed' as much.

[CRAZY K]

Sorry, missunderstood what I was saying...

10 people in your area need wedding entertainment. 5 of them choose to ask for PA hire rather than a DJ, the other 5 book the DJ. That means that you have 5 clients who you could have booked a disco for who have booked a PA hire instead. So my question was, does pushing PA hire loose you disco bookings? Maybe the 5 people who book the PA, if they couldn't book the PA would have booked a disco?

lLook what happened to Live Bands--- wiped out by DJs.

Maybe the same will happen with I pods wiping out the need for a large number of DJs---just leaving the specialists with big light shows at big events and the "entertainers" ?????

After all the I Pod gives you all your favourite music--as I said at the start of this thread---a bit worrying.

Perhaps the future will be hiring out PA systems to I podders in a big way which will drive prices down of course.

Bit like going down the hire shop for a cement mixer--£20

And dont think the Hire Shops wont jump on the band wagon:D

Things change--

CRAZY K

[wensleydale]

think your reading too much into it.
anyway, if people ring up and want to stick an ipod into my amp I am happy to do that- just charge them the same.

[CRAZY K]

think your reading too much into it.
anyway, if people ring up and want to stick an ipod into my amp I am happy to do that- just charge them the same.

Ah your missing the point.

They aint going to pay the same-they are going to Dazs I Pod Hire Shop to hire a PA for a lot less than you would charge. ( I ASSUME )

Doesnt matter with those figures above-- if it catches on the National Hire people will come in with cheap rates, easy money eh?

They just add this to their standard stuff to hire out.

No talent or skill required--just another equipment hire.

You pick up and take back --£75 a night?

You heard it here first---as usual:D

CRAZY K

[Dragonfly]

Ah your missing the point.

They aint going to pay the same-they are going to Dazs I Pod Hire Shop to hire a PA for a lot less than you would charge. ( I ASSUME )

Doesnt matter with those figures above-- if it catches on the National Hire people will come in with cheap rates, easy money eh?

They just add this to their standard stuff to hire out.

No talent or skill required--just another equipment hire.

You pick up and take back --£75 a night?

You heard it here first---as usual:D

CRAZY K

just off to buy one of those ipod mixer things off ebay chaps won't be long :D :D :D :D :D :D

[wensleydale]

Ah your missing the point.

They aint going to pay the same-they are going to Dazs I Pod Hire Shop to hire a PA for a lot less than you would charge. ( I ASSUME )

Doesnt matter with those figures above-- if it catches on the National Hire people will come in with cheap rates, easy money eh?

They just add this to their standard stuff to hire out.

No talent or skill required--just another equipment hire.

You pick up and take back --£75 a night?

You heard it here first---as usual:D

CRAZY K

Depends how you sell it- I think if you sold it well enough you could get the
same amount- would they really want the gear there on its own?

Think its not a major problem.


£75 a night? If you could find a decent set up for that amount I would get rid of my gear and hire each night- no setups, no repairs etc much better........

[Ricesnaps]

I didn't mis-understand at all Rice. You didn't take my answer in.

Any PA hires will be on top of other weddings or DJing jobs. They can be delivered AM and picked up AM and therefore the DJ can go and do a wedding etc. If people have already made their mind up about what they want to do, you can't start trying to change it!

I think you're looking into this way too deeply. If they couldn't book the PA from me, then they'd go elsewhere and book one. Simple as that.

I haven't 'lost' a disco booking because I've supplied a PA, I've just gained a PA booking. That's what they wanted and that's what they'll get.

If someone came to me to book a dance floor and I wouldn't try and sell them a quiz night would I?

My main income is still from discos. Anything else is supplementary, and so doesn't get 'pushed' as much.

It's really really hard to get things across on a forum sometimes. I'm not suggesting you can't hire them a disco and someone else a PA at all and I'm sure you are doing alright from it. What I AM trying to ask / suggest is simply whether the encouragement of PA hire in this kind of market is reducing our potential market overall. If you supplied a PA or the client goes somewhere else, they have hired that in place of another form of entertainment, so absolutely you or the next man or the band they might have chosen if they couldn't get the PA hire has missed out. I'm guessing currently you're doing quite well out of this and are picking up the PA booking and the DJ booking, but how much more would you have earned if you had booked then both as DJ bookings?

It's not a case of looking too deeply at this at all, more a case of debating whether the IPod wedding / PA hire wedding / buy it from Maplins and let my uncle do it type wedding is in fact one of the many things that are eroding our traditional market.

[Ricesnaps]

think your reading too much into it.
anyway, if people ring up and want to stick an ipod into my amp I am happy to do that- just charge them the same.

and that's the point isn't it. If someone is going to go down the hire route, why would they pay the same price as hiring a DJ?

[CRAZY K]

and that's the point isn't it. If someone is going to go down the hire route, why would they pay the same price as hiring a DJ?

Two points--

ONE no they wouldnt --why would they? No skill-no expertise--no value.

TWO Yes they wouldnt get anything like a proper disco for £75 just an amp and speakers to stick the I pod through ---which appears to be exactly what the last two enquiries I received wanted :eek: I also guess thats the level of cost they might expect relative to say hiring something of comparable value.

Hope National Hire Companies arent reading this :eek:

This is reality!

CRAZY K

[Key2]

Hi All

For anyone who doesn't know me (that's almost everyone) or hasn't read my few postings, I'm a self-employed driving instructor, who is about to start into mobile DJ and quiz night work. I have read this thread with interest, and would like to add my comments, as I think I may have some insight into this 'problem' from my own profession.

Parents can teach their kids to drive, but most don't...and never will.
Customers 'could' hire a PA system and use their Ipod, but most won't. Think about it from the customers viewpoint. It's your daughters wedding reception, it's her BIG day. All the guests arrive, cousin Ralph is playing songs on his Ipod and everything is great, then it dies on him, or he drops it, or his mate spills his beer on it...and all goes silent. Where's the back-up? Customers are paying for a service, not just for the music.

To teach learner drivers for money, instructors have to be licenced, which costs money.
Don't people need a licence to play mp3's from a hard drive?

What about PL insurance? If they hire a PA and use their own music, who is liable if someone gets hurt by a cable (trip hazard or voltage), or a falling speaker cabinet?

Dual-controlled cars have been around for years, but the national hire companies aren't pushing them to parents who want to save money on driving lessons for their kids!

One of the reasons that 95% of learner drivers still learn with a 'proper' instructor, is that we (driving instructors) are good at educating the public on the pitfalls of amateur teaching. Professional DJ's need to do the same.

Being part of groups such as this, and other associations, is the best way to protect your futures (and mine, hopefully).

John

[CRAZY K]

Hi All

For anyone who doesn't know me (that's almost everyone) or hasn't read my few postings, I'm a self-employed driving instructor, who is about to start into mobile DJ and quiz night work. I have read this thread with interest, and would like to add my comments, as I think I may have some insight into this 'problem' from my own profession.

Parents can teach their kids to drive, but most don't...and never will.
Customers 'could' hire a PA system and use their Ipod, but most won't. Think about it from the customers viewpoint. It's your daughters wedding reception, it's her BIG day. All the guests arrive, cousin Ralph is playing songs on his Ipod and everything is great, then it dies on him, or he drops it, or his mate spills his beer on it...and all goes silent. Where's the back-up? Customers are paying for a service, not just for the music.

To teach learner drivers for money, instructors have to be licenced, which costs money.
Don't people need a licence to play mp3's from a hard drive?

What about PL insurance? If they hire a PA and use their own music, who is liable if someone gets hurt by a cable (trip hazard or voltage), or a falling speaker cabinet?

Dual-controlled cars have been around for years, but the national hire companies aren't pushing them to parents who want to save money on driving lessons for their kids!

One of the reasons that 95% of learner drivers still learn with a 'proper' instructor, is that we (driving instructors) are good at educating the public on the pitfalls of amateur teaching. Professional DJ's need to do the same.

Being part of groups such as this, and other associations, is the best way to protect your futures (and mine, hopefully).

John

Licences for music--I would think its the last thing a punter thinks about--after all hes bought his music once--or maybe got it from a doodgy bloke in the pub. No one likes paying twice.

Sadly John many DJs dont have PLI cover themselves so not much hope for a punter bothering!

Why do 25 per cent of the people who have been flooded out recently NOT have insurance?

Because its not going to happen to THEM:eek:

Yes there will be a number of discerning people with serious money booking big hotels and marquees who will still hire proper DJs who offer value for money.

However a large number (in my opinion) will consider the I pod route as time goes by.

They run their own disco every day when they listen to their I Pod music--so why wouldnt they be able to organise things themselves--you can hire quality reliable equipment. ( Allegedly from Daz :D )

I dont think the same thinking applies to running your own music as opposed to having your car smashed up by your 18 yr old son.

Whilst the risks may be the same--the perception is different.

I hope your right though

regards

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

I wonder (with the benefit of hindsight) what percentage of people who hire an amp & speakers for their wedding reception & plug their ipod into it wish they'd paid a bit extra and got a professional mobile disco instead.

I can hazard guess at the answer to that one!

[PropellerHeadCase]

The first time it happened, the guy had a laptop running SAM and as the room wasn't ready for the PA to go into, we ended up chatting. It turns out that he didn't think that DJs used this kind of technology yet and also that because he had a 60s themed wedding, he didn't think that DJs would handle or entertain playlists and also wouldn't have the right music for him.

Anyway, I explained what DJs can do these days in terms of event planning, bespoke wedding discos and requests and he was very shocked and said he had no idea that DJs could do that.


Riiight, someone who plays pre-recorded music for a living isn't at least aware if not in possession of up-to-the-minute technology, and can't handle a theme evening. I'm sorry, but the man strikes me as either arrogant or ignorant.


Rice, as I said in my original post, cases like the above where there is a genuine possibility to up-sell from a PA to a DJ are few and far between. I think most people realise that DJs have a lot more music than they'll ever have, even if they spend a lot of time downloading illegally. The thing people don't seem to realise is that a good, experienced DJ doesn't play to their own tastes, they play to the directions of the client and the apparent preferences of the dancefloor.

One of the brides I spoke to, here in NZ, has a wedding of 40 people, the bulk of whom aren't big on dancing. She chose to use an iPod, and fair enough, too. Has a DJ lost an opportunity there? Only an opportunity to tear their hair out over an unenthusiastic crowd.

I think iPod's still have that patina of newness on them (despite having recently sold the 100,000,000th unit). As more and more people have terrible experiences with a bride or groom electing to go with a lap-top or iPod, to save a few dollars, and those experiences seem to be in the majority, the more people will value the role of the DJ again.

Let's face it, being able to say that you're a DJ for a living still gets you a bit of cred, especially with younger people.

Now all we have to do is educate the bedroom and club DJs to stick to what they do well and not pollute the mobile DJ market with self-centred egotists who play what they like rather than what they think the crowd will like. To clarify, I started in club DJing, so I understand the difference, a lot of club DJs don't seem to, and bedroom DJs need to decide whether they want to be Sasha or one of us lot.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Riiight, someone who plays pre-recorded music for a living isn't at least aware if not in possession of up-to-the-minute technology, and can't handle a theme evening. I'm sorry, but the man strikes me as either arrogant or ignorant.




Not sure I'm getting you here?

Why would he know what DJs did?

There are a lot of DJs out there who can't handle a theme evening I'm sure, and a lot who won't play requests and give the client what they want.

Why do you think we have such a bad reputation within our industry?

A lot of people out there think we all use ropelights and say 'shabba' on the mic. They think we are unintelligable on the mic, can't mix and play distorted music through ropey sound systems.

This is people's idea of a DJ, unless they know a decent company or DJ themselves. How do we get portrayed on TV in adverts and small parts in TV shows? In a bad way. Cheesey voice overs and crap equipment all part of the package because that's the view that most uneducated people will have of your average DJ.

As an individual and also as a forum and industry we need to change all that. Change people's perceptions of our industry and their pre-conceived ideas about what they think we look like and how we are portrayed.

I will stay on my soap box and shout this message until no-one else wants to listen, and then I will carry on some more.

Rant over....going to get a beer now. :beer1:

[rob1963]

Whoaaaa...that was a very long post for you, Darren! :D :boxer2:

[PropellerHeadCase]

...And if you read the rest of my post, Darren, I'm sure you'd see that we're on the same page.

Except about the dimwit that didn't think that a DJ would have music. At the very least it would have been sensible to ask, surely? Everyone knows that a GP probably won't undertake brain-surgery, but that some people with medical degrees will. So why is it hard to understand that there will be differences in the level of skill and ability between DJs? It's not brain surgery.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

[QUOTE=PropellerHeadCase;126263
Except about the dimwit that didn't think that a DJ would have music. At the very least it would have been sensible to ask, surely? [/QUOTE]

Err...no, as he wanted certain things that he thought that DJs couldn't give him.

I don't really see why you are calling him names firstly and secondly not respecting his decision to do what he wanted to do.

I had no problem taking his money for a couple of hours PA hire and certainly wouldn't call him ignorant or arrogant, just uneducated to what we do (read the rest of my other post etc)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

...And if you read the rest of my post, Darren, I'm sure you'd see that we're on the same page.



Indeed, and I did.

The point I was making was about your first comment.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Fair enough. Put it down to my incredulity that he wouldn't think that some DJs, not all, but some, might know a bit about music.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Fair enough. Put it down to my incredulity that he wouldn't think that some DJs, not all, but some, might know a bit about music.

But....

The thing is, you are very obviously an intelligent man (and scrabble champion:p ) and very much into your music.

You also have a very in depth knowledge of certain genres, as do several members of this forum, but let's not forget what I said about the publics perception of us in general.

Whenever I talk to clients or perspective clients on the phone, they are convinced not only by what I tell them about my business, but also the fact that I know what I'm talking about with most genres and decades of music.

I would be the first to admit that there are certain areas that I'm not an expert in, but I tend to know a little about a lot of genres and a lot about a few. Most DJs are not and also are not perceived as being experts either, whilst playing the 'birdie song' etc.

That is the barrier that we have to get over as mobile jocks. Club DJs tend to specialise in certain genres and therefore are considered experts in those fields. We, as mobile DJs, generally do not, so therefore are considered by the general public as experts in cheesey disco type tunes.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Fair cop.

Biggest problem facing all of us, I feel, public (mis)perception of what we do - it's one of the reasons I talk about researching people's play-lists on my site, it fits people's assumption that I won't know ahead of time, but counters that by saying that I will put the miles in making sure I know. Whether I actually have to "research" or rely on what I already know (research already done) is ultimately irrelevant.

It's that perception that sees people thinking £150 for five hours is reasonable, and why so many cowboys and hobbyists get work. Oh, the joy of being undervalued!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Again, I know exactly what you are saying (after reading twice:beer1:) and totally agree.

We are obviously talking off the same page, abeit in different languages (slightly!)

I look forward to when you reside in Bath and are a mere 90 mins or so away from a succinct answer!

[PropellerHeadCase]

Now you're just being rude, albeit in a funny way ;)

I just think you shouldn't be reading what I write at... was it 4:30am?

Are you that "succinct answer", Darren?

[CRAZY K]

I wonder (with the benefit of hindsight) what percentage of people who hire an amp & speakers for their wedding reception & plug their ipod into it wish they'd paid a bit extra and got a professional mobile disco instead.

I can hazard guess at the answer to that one!

Sadly true--but too late--like those people who wished thay had taken out flood insurance in Sheffield and Doncaster :eek:

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Now you're just being rude, albeit in a funny way ;)

I just think you shouldn't be reading what I write at... was it 4:30am?



Why am I being rude and why shouldn't I be reading what you write at 4:30am?

[Excalibur]

But....

We, as mobile DJs, generally do not, so therefore are considered by the general public as experts in cheesey disco type tunes.

At last, the recognition I deserve!!:D :D :D

[theoloyla]

An overview of all this is "it comes down to how important the music is at a function and how dificult it is to provide it." Many people COULD make sandwiches and quiches etc or even do a full blown meal for their parties but it takes time and effort; so they hire in a caterer to do it. Most people could find a car to get them to the church but they want a limo; so they hire one with a driver. The same is true of the music. There have been disco hire shops for years and some people do hire the equipment and do it themselves (it is usually down to cost) and I have even known many small wedding parties where they simply use a portable stereo with a collection of cd's which they put on themselves. BUT if people want a proper do then they will hire a band or disco and toastmaster etc to make sure the event goes right.
It is however frighteningly true that a vast swathe of the public (who probably dont go to that many functions) ARE unaware of just how good a professional dj can be. As has been said they regard us all as idiots who just want to blind and deafen them with their least favourite form of music.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It is however frighteningly true that a vast swathe of the public (who probably dont go to that many functions) ARE unaware of just how good a professional dj can be.

Totally agree.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Why am I being rude and why shouldn't I be reading what you write at 4:30am?

When I said rude I DID say "in a funny way" and I was referring to your comment about having to read it twice, which is why I went on to say that maybe reading it at 4:30am was the problem, as I was typing it at 3:00pm, or so. Tha's all. :beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

When I said rude I DID say "in a funny way" and I was referring to your comment about having to read it twice, which is why I went on to say that maybe reading it at 4:30am was the problem, as I was typing it at 3:00pm, or so. Tha's all. :beer1:

Ah, right. :confused: :D :cool:

[TonyB]

I had first hand experience of playing music from an Ipod last night. Long story how I got involved with the gig but to cut a long story short I agreed to help out a band, playing a few tracks between sets and providing the lighting.

The band finished at 11.30pm and I played a few tracks but was then told to put the Ipod on. Initially I was told I could go home when the band finished - but leave my lights, decks and mixer there (the PA belonged to the band and they left it there). Yeah right, leave my gear in a marquee full of drunken wedding revelers - fat chance.

It was extremely frustrating. I kept having people come up to me asking if I could skip a track because no one liked it and also was asked for requests but all I could say was sorry, Ipod playing, been told not to touch it. Even the brides Mum was not happy because she wanted some 'older' music to get the older people up dancing but I couldn't touch the dreaded Ipod.

In the end I did relent a few times, paused the Ipod and slipped in a few popular requests which got people up dancing. First time the Ipod owner steamed over to ask what I was doing but I explained lots of people had asked for the track and she went away. Done it a couple of times afterwards as well and got away with it.

As soon as the Ipod was put on, about half the guests drifted away but I don't know if it was time for them to go home anyway.

The Music on the Ipod was one persons favourite tracks, there were gaps between them, there was a noticeable lack of quality compared to the CD's/laptop and the genres/tempo were all mixed up.

It wasn't my gig so wasn't a booking associated with my name but there were people there that thought I was selecting the tracks. Total nightmare and not something I would want to do again.

[Dragonfly]

There is so many people that are now told to do this as it will ensure they get to hear the tracks they want as it's THEIR night ....... what unqualified numpty suggests this and where do we find them to administer the lemon juice to their eye balls????

surely yes a wedding is YOUR big day but you have a wedding reception/disco so you can SHARE your happines and special day with your friends and family therefore to my mind in some part giving them some licence to help create it with and for you in the form of having them dancing and enjoying the music and atmosphere they wish to????

rightly or wrongly i do say at meetings "yes I am more than willing to work from a playlist of all your favourite tracks but please remember that your guests may not share your tastes and although you will be listening to all the music you love I doubt the evening will be much fun if at 9pm it's just us 3 in the function room....................exceptionally rare but in 10 years it has happened once"

[rob1963]

yes a wedding is YOUR big day but you have a wedding reception/disco so you can SHARE your happines and special day with your friends and family therefore to my mind in some part giving them some licence to help create it

Absolutely!

Lets say the bride & groom are into indie music, and request indie music all night.

Nobody dances all night apart from the bride & groom, you have to turn down all requests, and some people leave early because of this. At the end of the evening people complain to the bride & groom about the music.

Even though you've done what the bride & groom wanted, would they REALLY go away thinking how fantastic the reception had been?

Probably not!

[Dragonfly]

Absolutely!

Lets say the bride & groom are into indie music, and request indie music all night.

Rob I had this last summer I had a request list as long as your arm all 90s stuff on the thinking that all our guests and us were at uni together from 1993 so it will go down really well.....

45 minutes into the gig 8 of their friends approached their comment " we appreciate that we were all at uni in the 90s but we are not now , we have all grown up and our music tastes changed ...... please could you play x , x and x ?

bit the bullet and deviated from the list

the comment at the end from the bride and groom "you didnt play all of what we asked for , but everyone has had a superb night which will be rememberd by us all thank you very much "

[rob1963]

Nice one, Dragonfly.

It blows the "Customer is always right" idea right out of the water!

(Not that I ever believed that anyway!)

[Dragonfly]

it's a dangerous game to play to be honest and if it had all gone t.u. I would have had to stand up and be counted for getting it wrong , but as a professional i believe in on the job risk analysis and it seemed worth it.

[CRAZY K]

Nice one, Dragonfly.

It blows the "Customer is always right" idea right out of the water!

(Not that I ever believed that anyway!)

Rob--the expression is--The customer is King--especially if they are paying you :D

So you do everything within reason to comply with their wishes--until like Dave you realise in the interest of everybody including yourself ( who does not wish to get blamed for a disaster) you point out very tactfully-- that maybe you have an alternative choice of music that will turn it all round.

Thats it--your right--the Customer isnt always right--just King.

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Rob--the expression is--The customer is King--especially if they are paying you :D

So you do everything within reason to comply with their wishes--until like Dave you realise in the interest of everybody including yourself ( who does not wish to get blamed for a disaster) you point out very tactfully-- that maybe you have an alternative choice of music that will turn it all round.

Thats it--your right--the Customer isnt always right--just King.

CRAZY K

Crazy,

I'm a professional, so I'd always explain the options & give them the choice.

I'd say that I'm working through their list & nobody is dancing, and give them the option of carrying on doing the same for the whole night, OR starting to play a variety of party music to get lots of people up & dancing.

It's then their choice, but either way they can't complain...because I've given them the benefit of my knowledge & experience by pointing out the options, making my suggestions & am then doing what THEY want.

[PropellerHeadCase]

I'm firmly of the opinion that if you can foresee a disaster (like a wedding with nothing but 90s Indie requested), that it's best to organise a fall-back position ahead of time.

[DJ James Lake]

I have one of these "iPod" gigs coming up soon. I have told the bride to be that she will be hiring the equipment for the night and an engineer will be present to setup and take down the equipment and to keep an eye on it during the function.

She has been made aware that he is not a DJ and will not have any music with him and can only ensure that the equipment is functioning properly and that the music selection and that equipment and any damages should they occur will be down to them. With this she is more than happy.

The engineer in fact will be my usual roadie I'm just not happy leaving expensive kit in the hands of drunken guests.

Will keep you posted how the gig goes.

[CRAZY K]

I have one of these "iPod" gigs coming up soon. I have told the bride to be that she will be hiring the equipment for the night and an engineer will be present to setup and take down the equipment and to keep an eye on it during the function.

She has been made aware that he is not a DJ and will not have any music with him and can only ensure that the equipment is functioning properly and that the music selection and that equipment and any damages should they occur will be down to them. With this she is more than happy.

The engineer in fact will be my usual roadie I'm just not happy leaving expensive kit in the hands of drunken guests.

Will keep you posted how the gig goes.

How much are you charging for that service James?

Any lights included?

CRAZY K

[Steve the DJ]

Doesn't take people long does it?

Ipod Disco For Hire (http://www.ipoddisco.co.uk/)

[Ricesnaps]

Doesn't take people long does it?

Ipod Disco For Hire (http://www.ipoddisco.co.uk/)

I'm packing up and calling it a day - £55???????

Seriously though, our industry IS changing. The last two years have seen a huge move towards more choice at the higher end wedding market. We are regularly talking about client choice, music requests, playlists etc.. which we weren't a few years ago. Now we're talking about PA hire and the odd IPod disco. It's actually a worrying trend, especially when you see guys offering a PA hire for £55.

I think I hinted in a PA hire thread a few weeks ago, but surely, as an industry we need to be encouraging the live DJ service, not the iPod / PA hire service?

[PropellerHeadCase]

I suspect that it will be a relatively short-lived phenomenon.

http://www.ilounge.com/images/uploads/simpsons-ipod.jpg

[rob1963]

I suspect that it will be a relatively short-lived phenomenon.

http://www.ilounge.com/images/uploads/simpsons-ipod.jpg

Agreed.

Most people want entertainment at their wedding reception...so they book a disco.

After all, if you spend £350 on a disco for the reception, that only represents about 2% of the total cost of a wedding.

However, it's one of the things that people will remember the most.

Therefore, it offers excellent value for money for a part of the day that's so important.

[CRAZY K]

Agreed.

Most people want entertainment at their wedding reception...so they book a disco.

After all, if you spend £350 on a disco for the reception, that only represents about 2% of the total cost of a wedding.

However, it's one of the things that people will remember the most.

Therefore, it offers excellent value for money for a part of the day that's so important.

This is the age old problem--you and I know it makes sense to insure your House and Contents. 25per cent of those flooded recently didnt have cover-after the event its too late. The percentage thing you quote has been around for decades--people STILL dont get it:(

You and I know its sensible to hire an entertainer providing a professional service at a proper rate of pay for very important functions---sadly Joe Public-see my example above-- dont always know:eek:

I dont underestimate the problem Rob, Im not full of doom and gloom as it doesnt affect me particularly but I do believe that the market will continue for wealthier individuals---or people willing to spend a lot of money--and that will continue to provide work for a certain number of selected DJs offering a full professional service at important events in upmarket venues, lucky old Rice!

Where I think the rot will start (has started) is at functions where people are not convinced they ought to pay professional rates for a professional job
--plenty of those around, I speak to a few each month-- :(

OR the events that are not so important that if an I pod Disco doesnt work out then its not the end of the world for them--some loud music , flashing lights everyone drunk--thats good enough---only £50:D

As I said earlier today --somewhere--we have a selling and marketing job to do right now to secure future work---just my view.

Im thinking of putting something on my websites like--dont have a boring function with a pre programmed I pod---inject some Fire into your Party===

Hang on-- have I seen that somewhere else?:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

I'm packing up and calling it a day - £55???????

Seriously though, our industry IS changing. The last two years have seen a huge move towards more choice at the higher end wedding market. We are regularly talking about client choice, music requests, playlists etc.. which we weren't a few years ago. Now we're talking about PA hire and the odd IPod disco. It's actually a worrying trend, especially when you see guys offering a PA hire for £55.

I think I hinted in a PA hire thread a few weeks ago, but surely, as an industry we need to be encouraging the live DJ service, not the iPod / PA hire service?

See post 64 above Matt

This probably wont affect people willing to pay serious money for important events but having said that I have received 2 enquiries recently where people are DEFINITELY not short of money but want ipod Disco --

No DJ required:eek: :eek: :eek:

The only good thing about that I pod ad is its only got a Mobile Number--that puts me off immediately.

CRAZY K

[Ricesnaps]

See post 64 above Matt

This probably wont affect people willing to pay serious money for important events but having said that I have received 2 enquiries recently where people are DEFINITELY not short of money but want ipod Disco --

No DJ required:eek: :eek: :eek:

The only good thing about that I pod ad is its only got a Mobile Number--that puts me off immediately.

CRAZY K

You see, it's the people who are not short of money believing that they should have an iPod wedding or function. The issue here is that it becomes considered to be the next big thing rather than a cheep alternative to a proper DJ.

Spoke to your guy last night, sounded just like you - is there a code of practice for callers, or maybe a particular level of enthusiasm!

[CRAZY K]

You see, it's the people who are not short of money believing that they should have an iPod wedding or function. The issue here is that it becomes considered to be the next big thing rather than a cheep alternative to a proper DJ.

Spoke to your guy last night, sounded just like you - is there a code of practice for callers, or maybe a particular level of enthusiasm!

YES YOU SHOUT ALL THE TIME LOUDLY

And have 110 per cent enthusiasm

Did you want to join the club:D

Going to have something different to differentiate yourself from an I Pod Disco:D

I dont actually think many people with serious money to spend will go I Pod
they will be discerning and hire quality DJs---which may well spin off to my next hobbyhorse--recommendations.

So your charging £400 eh? well id like to see you working or speak to someone thats used you recently if im paying that kind of money--otherwise I might as well hire an I pod for £50 and take a chance:eek:

Have a belter tomorrow night:party2:

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

I really don't think any mobile DJs need to worry about ipod or DIY discos putting them out of business, coz it simply won't happen.

Juke box hire companies have been around for many years, but how much negative impact have they had on mobile discos? None.

There are also companies that hire out normal disco equipment to anyone who wants it, but they've had no negative impact on mobile discos either.

Ipods are still quite new. They've only been around for 5 years, so the idea of pluggin one into an amp at your party is still quite a novelty...but no novelty remains that for very long.

People will soon wake up to the fact that a DIY disco or an ipod disco is a false economy, and the saving of a couple of hundred pounds is not worth it at the expense of losing a professional disco on the most important day of your life.

[DJ James Lake]

How much are you charging for that service James?

Any lights included?

CRAZY K

I'm charging them exactly the same rate as a normal disco with a dj - £200 in this case as they are having my bronze package.

It will be a full disco except no dj

[Dance FX]

With us aiming at the teen market I am sure we will be asked to play music from ipods/laptops before long :rolleyes:

How will I know if the music is legal or not?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

With us aiming at the teen market I am sure we will be asked to play music from ipods/laptops before long :rolleyes:

How will I know if the music is legal or not?

You won't.

[PropellerHeadCase]

With us aiming at the teen market I am sure we will be asked to play music from ipods/laptops before long :rolleyes:

Been there, done that, it went like this...

"Can you plug an iPod into your system?"
"Yes."
"Can I?"
"No."
"OK."

[theoloyla]

I really don't think any mobile DJs need to worry about ipod or DIY discos putting them out of business, coz it simply won't happen.

Juke box hire companies have been around for many years, but how much negative impact have they had on mobile discos? None.

There are also companies that hire out normal disco equipment to anyone who wants it, but they've had no negative impact on mobile discos either.

Ipods are still quite new. They've only been around for 5 years, so the idea of pluggin one into an amp at your party is still quite a novelty...but no novelty remains that for very long.

People will soon wake up to the fact that a DIY disco or an ipod disco is a false economy, and the saving of a couple of hundred pounds is not worth it at the expense of losing a professional disco on the most important day of your life.
I remember back in 1966 a big club in Norwich installed a massive Seeburg Jukebox linked to a big (for those days) p.a. They predicted that it was the future of disco entertainment - it played the punters requests and they didnt have to pay it, it was never late etc etc. For some time the club was the busiest in the city and was packed every night but they realised that they needed live entertainment and hired go-go dancers in cages, bands and eventually guest dj's (including myself). The juke box did the warm up and I only had to do 2 one hour spots with the juke box doing my break and the closedown. The act that I put on was highly colourful and visual (as was the case with other dj's they booked) but as we know it didnt sweep the nation.