Are Djs Wages Keeping Up With Inflation

[TONYTIGER]

Hi just wondered what your thoughts were on this prickly subject, it might have been covered before but im new to the forum so please forgive me if its been covered before. Many years ago 1966 to be honest i did my first payed dj job for the princely sum of £10 that was a weeks wages in those days, dont laugh you youngesters So today as a yard stick are you all getting £500 a night? .The reason i ask is i had to do a job in Weymouth which i try to avoid like the plague and was approached by a guest who asked me to come to London to do his daughters 21st for £700 now i know there is lots of regional variants on prices for mobiles but is there that much difference on depending were you are based. I myself have to be competative as i dj for a living and have to work so im not the most exspensive but not the cheapest. The west country i read some were is very poor for dj rates and i know plenty of local mobiles are still going out for £100-£120 i would be interested in your feedback. TONYTIGER:confused:

[theoloyla]

The short answer is yes BUT as you say rates and expectations vary wildly.
It is great to find another dj on here who started like me in 1966. I think I used to get £12 a night back then which was as much as I earned a week in my day job when I left college. I am now quoting £275 for an average night.

[spin mobile disco]

i think in general wages have increased with inflation but only in certain regional area's. For example I do gigs in oxford and the average wage there is £260 - £300 a night in northampton where I live its closer to £140 - £180 a night. And when I worked in Portsmouth about £70 - £90 was considered average.
Really is different whole country over. For example you wouldnt get me inside the m25 area for less than £300 and thats for a basic with good parking not upstairs etc. Crazy K just did a nightmare of a gig in central london and I would have charged £700 for it just for the hassle.

I think that we may be reaching a bit of a price freeze though as the average punter is not so well off these days with higher interest rates etc. If there is a recession I think the mobile disco market will be hit pretty hard.

[Corabar Steve]

Out of interest & slightly off topic, how long's the 21st gig?

[rob1963]

Are DJs wages keeping up with inflation?

Well, when I started with a colleague in 1984, we charged £60 a gig.

I now average £300...

...so I think the answer is yes!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Are DJs wages keeping up with inflation?

Well, when I started with a colleague in 1984, we charged £60 a gig.



You were well expensive. I started in the same year and charged between £10 and £20 a gig!

[Vectis]

Well based on my 1984 price of £50 and THIS TABLE (http://www.whatsthecost.com/historic.cpi.aspx)
I should be charging £96.64

In reality I'm averaging £180-£200 per gig. OK I have wildly differing prices ranging from £100 to £350 depending on what & where but I'm now averaging twice in real terms what I was charging 23 years ago :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

[Dragonfly]

Are DJs wages keeping up with inflation?

Well, when I started with a colleague in 1984, we charged £60 a gig.

I now average £300...

...so I think the answer is yes!

maybe you did my primary school disco ....... I was 7 :D :D :D :D

[Candybeatdiscos]

in 1992 when i started i was earning £20-£35 a gig, now under my own business i charge £180 - £400 depending on kind and duration of function, i hope to reach the £500 mark by the end of the year.

[wensleydale]

i think yes, although as we have discussed several times before, area, event etc etc makes a huge difference.
discos are what you make of them....

[Excalibur]

The short answer is yes BUT as you say rates and expectations vary wildly.
It is great to find another dj on here who started like me in 1966. I think I used to get £12 a night back then which was as much as I earned a week in my day job when I left college. I am now quoting £275 for an average night.

You lads were dear! I started in 1973, and charged £3 per night! Mind you it was only for friends, and my home stereo! Got us invited to a lot of parties, and some of those are another story!;)

[PropellerHeadCase]

It's not apples with apples though, either, is it?

The outlay to be a DJ, these days, is significantly more, even taking into account inflation, than it was in 1966. They may as well be different professions.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It's not apples with apples though, either, is it?

The outlay to be a DJ, these days, is significantly more, even taking into account inflation, than it was in 1966. They may as well be different professions.

I don't know about 1966, but what I do know is that a lot of gear is cheaper now than it was when I started in 1984.

A decent mixer back then cost me the best part of £800 and for the same sort of standard today, I reckon around £350-£400.

[rob1963]

when I started with a colleague in 1984, we charged £60 a gig.


You were well expensive. I started in the same year and charged between £10 and £20 a gig!

Darren,

You might think I was expensive, but I think you were cheap!

I base this opinion on a pub where I started working in 1984...the year we both started. It was only two and a half hours, and all the gear was built in, so I only had to take a box of singles...and they paid £30 a night!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren,

You might think I was expensive, but I think you were cheap!

I base this opinion on a pub where I started working in 1984...the year we both started. It was only two and a half hours, and all the gear was built in, so I only had to take a box of singles...and they paid £30 a night!

Don't forget that I was only 15 then Rob and you were in your 30s, erm, I mean 20s...:D

[secretDISCO]

I think a lot has changed over the years,remembering i never made any money in those days simply that i spent everything i made on records and bulbs stylus leads etc.
Also everything i done was local combined with the keeness to be seen and to be booked every weekend.
Today sees "everybody being a DJ" with it a lot easier (and cheaper) to get started in the business.
For example, a guy in the same town as me is doing gigs for £65 and weddings at £90.
Dragonfly listed a thread not that long ago saying he had put his prices up and was "toileting himself" waiting for the response.
Overall i have enough experience to price myself in a niche that stimulates my brain to put on a show every night i'm booked.
C'mon guys lets be honest .....how many phone calls have you had over the years with " our DJ has let us down at the last minute....can you help us":clown:
I rest my case m'lord.

[rob1963]

Don't forget that I was only 15 then Rob and you were in your 30s, erm, I mean 20s...:D

:Naughty: :boxer2: :moon: :lol:

[Dragonfly]

lets just say im now on 3-4 times per gig what i was on when i first staretd , and my wife keeps upping the prices.

and no Daz Rob Steve and Tony im not on £30- £40 a night :D :D :D :D :D























I can hear you thinking!!!!

[Ricesnaps]

Mmmm, I tried to do the maths. Based on say 5% increase year on year. Started in 1985 on I think about £70 for an evening gig. Based on that I should be charging £215 if I'm keeping up with inflation. Average price now is £300+ so I'm guessing I'm doing better than inflation. I do tend to add on 10% year on year these days

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

£70 a night when you were 13? Are you sure you've remembered that correctly?

[rob1963]

£70 a night when you were 13?

Darren,

Based on that, if you only got £10-£20 when you were 15, I think you were seriously undercharging!

:rolleyes:

[flatliners]

when i first started out about about 16 years ago i was getting 65 pounds and 30 -35 for a walk in now i get on average 120 but i was thinking about putting up my prices to say maybe 170 and taking on a rodie

[Ricesnaps]

£70 a night when you were 13? Are you sure you've remembered that correctly?

Started when I was 12 - dad as roadie, mate to help me out. can't say we got £70 for everything, but were certainly charging that for weddings!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren,

Based on that, if you only got £10-£20 when you were 15, I think you were seriously undercharging!

:rolleyes:

I don't think I was.

I started slowly. My equipment wasn't great and I had a limited music collection. However I was enthusiastic and at the time there wasnt as many DJs around, so I got the cheapy bookings for friends and family and kids parties.

I then started to build up the pricing slowly as I improved and got more experience.

On a serious note, I think this is what is lacking today. Everyone wants to start off earning big money and getting their investment back straight away.

I looked at it this way. If I was rubbish and charged between £10 and £20, it would matter that much. However, if people liked what I did when I charged that much, then I would get more bookings and start putting my prices up.

People liked what I did and the plan worked.

I'm still working 20 odd years later.

[Dragonfly]

I don't think I was.

I started slowly. My equipment wasn't great and I had a limited music collection. However I was enthusiastic and at the time there wasnt as many DJs around, so I got the cheapy bookings for friends and family and kids parties.

I then started to build up the pricing slowly as I improved and got more experience.

On a serious note, I think this is what is lacking today. Everyone wants to start off earning big money and getting their investment back straight away.

I looked at it this way. If I was rubbish and charged between £10 and £20, it would matter that much. However, if people liked what I did when I charged that much, then I would get more bookings and start putting my prices up.

People liked what I did and the plan worked.

I'm still working 20 odd years later.

exactly the same way I thought when I started but it took several kicks up the botty from several people to make me realise that i was worth more than i was asking. ....... too many years with too little money being earned ...... still onwards and upwards.

[TONYTIGER]

some interesting comements the forum is a fountain of knowledge ,it seems that location is the key to what you charge .As Leo said in the old days one night was a weeks wages how many of you could make a living doing one night a week ,not many so in real terms no the rate has not kept up with inflation, also this misconception that setting up a disco is more espensive today is not true the gear is so cheap today even 20 years a go there was no disco gear of any quanity coming out of the far east you only have to look on ebay you can get started for a grand. I sometimes calculate the time spent on one gig that is the time i left home and the time i return then work out the hourly rate for two persons its not much , i know some of you manage on your own but im to ancient but we all love our job so we put up with it.Mind you i miss the 80s when you could earn a fortune i used to do the radio one jocks on the roadshow £250 a gig those were the days!. TONYTIGER

[Tony Scott]

Hi just wondered what your thoughts were on this prickly subject, it might have been covered before but im new to the forum so please forgive me if its been covered before. Many years ago 1966 to be honest i did my first payed dj job for the princely sum of £10 that was a weeks wages in those days, dont laugh you youngesters So today as a yard stick are you all getting £500 a night? .The reason i ask is i had to do a job in Weymouth which i try to avoid like the plague and was approached by a guest who asked me to come to London to do his daughters 21st for £700 now i know there is lots of regional variants on prices for mobiles but is there that much difference on depending were you are based. I myself have to be competative as i dj for a living and have to work so im not the most exspensive but not the cheapest. The west country i read some were is very poor for dj rates and i know plenty of local mobiles are still going out for £100-£120 i would be interested in your feedback. TONYTIGER:confused:


Tony, I live in Weymouth but very rarely do a gig here, my work is normaly out of the area. Just interested why your comments on not wanting to work here?

I'd agree that the West-country is not as well paid as other area's in the south. I speak from experience as I DJ'd in London for 18years. I get about £200ish at the moment, I was getting that in 1995 in London.

Doing much better gigs now though and I am really enjoying the Marquee, Country Manor, Exclusive Hotel type work. :)

[PropellerHeadCase]

also this misconception that setting up a disco is more espensive today is not true the gear is so cheap today even 20 years a go there was no disco gear of any quanity coming out of the far east you only have to look on ebay you can get started for a grand

But back in the day how many lights was generally considered enough? Some of the people on here seem to go out with minimum 10 lighting effects, so the required vehicle is larger, the time spent setting up is more, more leads, more bulbs, greater running costs, etc. Also the discussion recently about amp power required in yesteryear versus now. Bi-amping appears to be almost standard now, whereas a pair of full-range speakers was the norm even into the 80s, I think - so amp and a pair of speakers versus X-over, two amps, 3 or four speakers, and so on. Whilst the very basic entry level might be cheaper, you can go a lot further than you could when adding to it.

[rob1963]

Some of the people on here seem to go out with minimum 10 lighting effects

That's right.

My own standard disco goes out with 10 lighting effects...

...although 8 of them are pinspots!

:p

[soundtracker]

But back in the day how many lights was generally considered enough? Some of the people on here seem to go out with minimum 10 lighting effects, so the required vehicle is larger, the time spent setting up is more, more leads, more bulbs, greater running costs, etc. Also the discussion recently about amp power required in yesteryear versus now. Bi-amping appears to be almost standard now, whereas a pair of full-range speakers was the norm even into the 80s, I think - so amp and a pair of speakers versus X-over, two amps, 3 or four speakers, and so on. Whilst the very basic entry level might be cheaper, you can go a lot further than you could when adding to it.
I disagree, although I take out more different types of light these days, they are smaller and lighter, we used to use 4 extremely large lightscreens, 4x2, , 2 x 4, and 2 x 8 spot boxes, 2 huge optikinetic projectors, a discosound roadstar deck, 2 x 18 huge bass reflex speakers, 2 x twin 15 midrange, 3 x 100 LP cases, and God knows how many boxes of singles! We used to fill a 3cwt ex British Telecoms Commer Van and a car as well!!! These days it all fits in a Ford escort Van!!!!!

[TONYTIGER]

Tony, I live in Weymouth but very rarely do a gig here, my work is normaly out of the area. Just interested why your comments on not wanting to work here?

I'd agree that the West-country is not as well paid as other area's in the south. I speak from experience as I DJ'd in London for 18years. I get about £200ish at the moment, I was getting that in 1995 in London.

Doing much better gigs now though and I am really enjoying the Marquee, Country Manor, Exclusive Hotel type work. :)

Hi Tony the reason i try to keep out of Weymouth is there is no money in this area , i know plenty of mobiles that are still going out for the £100-120 mark on a Sat night also most the venues are up stairs ,im like you most of my work is marquees balls ect the country set still seem to realise the value of a good disco funny though im in Weymouth tomorrow at bennets water lily farm doing the queens award to industry for Ultra electronics £400 so things might be looking up im sure we will meet up one day. TONYTIGER

[Dragonfly]

I disagree, although I take out more different types of light these days, they are smaller and lighter, we used to use 4 extremely large lightscreens, 4x2, , 2 x 4, and 2 x 8 spot boxes, 2 huge optikinetic projectors, a discosound roadstar deck, 2 x 18 huge bass reflex speakers, 2 x twin 15 midrange, 3 x 100 LP cases, and God knows how many boxes of singles! We used to fill a 3cwt ex British Telecoms Commer Van and a car as well!!! These days it all fits in a Ford escort Van!!!!!


That's right.

My own standard disco goes out with 10 lighting effects...

...although 8 of them are pinspots!

:p

at the moment i go out with 11 effects on a standard show this however as you know is under review as I wish to cut set up time down a little and create a more classy defined show using less lighting but with better effect.

at the moment it looks like 2/4 moving heads 2 ishow3/4 mirrorball and 1/2 martin robocolors which although not drastically less should be a quicker set up, and if i can't get enough height for the mirror ball i will just use the robocolors as spots on the dancefloor.

i do believe that its not so much the lighting you take out as the sound quality and evtertainment value and customer service you give.

there is a disco in the midlands charges more than me is out most weekends ..... 2 lights.

[rob1963]

I do believe that its not so much the lighting you take out as the sound quality and entertainment value and customer service you give.

I couldn't agree more.

My standard disco has 8 pinspots, a 600 watt mushroom light & a gobo flower...that's it!

I find them to be completely sufficient for my gigs.

Why knacker myself more than I already do - by taking lots of extra effects, when it makes no difference to the success of the evening?

The day I get one negative comment about my lights is the day I'll change them...

...but in 24 years it hasn't happened yet!

[PropellerHeadCase]

I disagree, although I take out more different types of light these days, they are smaller and lighter, we used to use 4 extremely large lightscreens, 4x2, , 2 x 4, and 2 x 8 spot boxes, 2 huge optikinetic projectors, a discosound roadstar deck, 2 x 18 huge bass reflex speakers, 2 x twin 15 midrange, 3 x 100 LP cases, and God knows how many boxes of singles! We used to fill a 3cwt ex British Telecoms Commer Van and a car as well!!! These days it all fits in a Ford escort Van!!!!!

Was all of the music in the car? The difference between vinyl and CD is only eclipsed by the difference between CD and PC, I think.

But will everyone at least agree that one needs to know a lot more music to do the job properly than you used to?

My new Spinmaster IIIs are heavier than the old Geni lights I used to use. My old full-range speakers were lighter than the top/mid speakers I subsequently used, and then there was the big sub. I've since bought lighter speakers for myself, and a smaller, lighter, but slightly less powerful sub. I used to fit my rig in a Toyota Corona, now I'm in a Mitsubishi L300 SWB van. My CDs would now be the Coronas entire capacity, well, almost.

[DK Karaoke]

Definately not.

If there were not so many cowboys working, asking for just bear money, then we could ask for a decent wage.

[CRAZY K]

:D
at the moment i go out with 11 effects on a standard show this however as you know is under review as I wish to cut set up time down a little and create a more classy defined show using less lighting but with better effect.

at the moment it looks like 2/4 moving heads 2 ishow3/4 mirrorball and 1/2 martin robocolors which although not drastically less should be a quicker set up, and if i can't get enough height for the mirror ball i will just use the robocolors as spots on the dancefloor.

i do believe that its not so much the lighting you take out as the sound quality and evtertainment value and customer service you give.

there is a disco in the midlands charges more than me is out most weekends ..... 2 lights.

Would that be the Eddystone Lighthouse and a large Mirror Ball from Maplins?

:D :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[TONYTIGER]

I supose im lucky because i can pick and chose what lighting i use for each gig from our hire stock ,so a different light show to suit each venue.Its interesting to note how little importance some djs reguard lighting its really important to create the right ambience and be able to light the venue correctly and have enough variation, so often i see discos with a few lights that they switch on at the begining of the night and thats it no change for slow or fast songs lights that dont suit the music .Do most of you djs run the lightshow yourselfs or do you have a roadie do it for you i find i to imersed in djing to have to worry about the lighting so i have a lighting operator.Our set up time for a standard show is 40 mins tops and would consist of something on these lines.2x robe AT250 wash 2x irock 250 msd barrels 2x futurelight evo 7 1 martin efx 600 back 3mx2m starcloth front 2mx1m starcloth and 1 akalite 6 way led display this gives us enough variation to suit a medim size venue ,if its larger we just add a few moving heads and a couple of lazers. TONYTIGER

[Tony Scott]

......its really important to create the right ambience and be able to light the venue correctly and have enough variation, so often i see discos with a few lights that they switch on at the begining of the night and thats it no change for slow or fast songs lights that dont suit the music......

Have you been reading my equipment page Tony? Agree totaly with your comments on lazy use of lighting.

I have spent hours programing scenes and chases.
I run everything through a dedicated lighting Laptop running Freestyler DMX software. I have pre-sets/cues for different venue types either restricting or opening up the movement of scanners and moving heads(wide, big, tall, marquee, club, small etc.)

I also have lots of pre-sets for different moods and styles so at the touch of a key I can alter the lighting to suit the music. I can go from 'Mad full on Moving White Stobe' to 'Serene Blue & Green Static Colour Wash' in a split second.

My roadie is getting quite good at using Freestyler, in fact I'm getting a bit concerned coz he has asked for a copy of it so he can learn to program........he's 16 and needs to be out getting wasted & chasing girls at his age shouldn't he? :D

[rob1963]

Its interesting to note how little importance some djs reguard lighting its really important to create the right ambience and be able to light the venue correctly and have enough variation, so often i see discos with a few lights that they switch on at the begining of the night and thats it no change TONYTIGER

Tony,

With all due respect, how important do you think lighting is to the clients who book us...other than the fact that we HAVE some coloured moving lights?

The ambience, variation & number of lights really don't matter to clients. As for whether you have moving heads or the latest DMX lighting, they wouldn't have a clue whether you did or not!

As already mentioned, my standard disco has 8 pinspots, a 600 watt mushroom light & a 100 watt gobo flower, and that's it!

Is this insufficient?

In the opinion of many DJs...maybe it is, but all I'm really interested in are the opinions of the clients who book me & pay my wages, and I've never had a negative comment from a client about my lighting in 24 years.

When or if I do, I'll do something about it.

[PropellerHeadCase]

With all due respect, how important do you think lighting is to the clients who book us...other than the fact that we HAVE some coloured moving lights?

The ambience, variation & number of lights really don't matter to clients. As for whether you have moving heads or the latest DMX lighting, they wouldn't have a clue whether you did or not!

As already mentioned, my standard disco has 8 pinspots, a 600 watt mushroom light & a 100 watt gobo flower, and that's it!

Is this insufficient?

In the opinion of many DJs...maybe it is, but all I'm really interested in are the opinions of the clients who book me & pay my wages, and I've never had a negative comment from a client about my lighting in 24 years.

I'm somewhere in the middle I think. Sure, most clients wouldn't comment on your lights as that's not ultimately what they've paid for, but good lighting that is a little bit special and in keeping with the venue, the mood AND the music can have a great effect, if only at a more subconscious level.



When or if I do, I'll do something about it.

What? Reactive rather than pro-active, Rob? Surely not! :zip:

[Tony Scott]

Tony,

With all due respect, how important do you think lighting is to the clients who book us...other than the fact that we HAVE some coloured moving lights?

The ambience, variation & number of lights really don't matter to clients. As for whether you have moving heads or the latest DMX lighting, they wouldn't have a clue whether you did or not!

As already mentioned, my standard disco has 8 pinspots, a 600 watt mushroom light & a 100 watt gobo flower, and that's it!

Is this insufficient?

In the opinion of many DJs...maybe it is, but all I'm really interested in are the opinions of the clients who book me & pay my wages, and I've never had a negative comment from a client about my lighting in 24 years.

When or if I do, I'll do something about it.

Rob I respect what you are saying and obviously for you it works and you have no need for anything better. As I understand it you have been in your area a few years and have built up a good reputation and can trade on this. Please correct me if I'm wrong........just how I understand it??

Although I have been DJing for 24years I have only been in the area I now live in for about 18months and within 6 month I went from Zero bookings to flat out every weekend doing top quality work.

I do not advertise with anybody and rely solely on my website for bookings so it is essential that I have something different to offer. My research shows that most of my clients book me on the look of the site, the textual content and the pictures and videos in my Images pages.

I get so many comments from clients at the time of booking complementing me on the images of my Lightshow.

For me it has been essential to have something different from the rest of the mobiles around here, hence the advanced lightshow, and to have a website that presents it well .

I am now getting plenty of of repeat bookings from the more local clients. Many of my clients are from London, Bristol, Midlands, Hampshire etc who are getting married on the Dorset Coast, they search on the web for entertainment, find my site and book me.

I believe that having a visualy impressive professional looking show and the right website to showcase it has been essential to getting the bookings. Being a good DJ and putting on a great party for my clients has kept them with me.

I'm a happy man :)

[rob1963]

As I understand it you have been in your area a few years and have built up a good reputation and can trade on this. Please correct me if I'm wrong........just how I understand it??

Hi Tony,

You're half right there.

I've actually been in my area for all my 44 years, as I've always lived within about 5 miles of where I was born.

However, I only left my daytime job, got a website & went full time 3 years ago...so it's only since then that I've been REALLY starting to get my name out there.

The most important thing is that like you, I'm happy :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The ambience, variation & number of lights really don't matter to clients. As for whether you have moving heads or the latest DMX lighting, they wouldn't have a clue whether you did or not!



Not strictly true Rob.

People sometimes are fussy about the kind of lighting they have.

[rob1963]

Not strictly true Rob.

People sometimes are fussy about the kind of lighting they have.

Darren,

It's true in the case of MY clients!

I can literally think of about 3 or 4 occasions when a potential client has asked about my lights.

From that, I assume that the rest (well over 99%) expect a lightshow, but really aren't bothered about the specifics.

As I've said before, my own lights are very simple & basic, but I've had no complaints yet.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren,

It's true in the case of MY clients!



And most of mine, but you were generalising in your last post and didn't say 'your' clients.

There are companies that provide lighting to match the decor of the room. There are corporate clients who book on size of show etc, so it does matter in some cases.

[Ricesnaps]

And most of mine, but you were generalising in your last post and didn't say 'your' clients.

There are companies that provide lighting to match the decor of the room. There are corporate clients who book on size of show etc, so it does matter in some cases.

Which is exactly what we are starting to provide - decor coloured lighting to change the feeling of a room - basicall the LED parcan uplighter effect. But it's deffinately part of what i do that is simply sold on the equipment. However is has little to do with my DJing!

[rob1963]

And most of mine, but you were generalising in your last post and didn't say 'your' clients.


Fair comment, Darren.

Yes, I was referring to my OWN clients, as they are the only ones I know about.

I apologise for not making that clear in my previous post.

:)

[Vectis]

I have a fair split of clients - roughly 50/50 - that want either

a) a basic disco

or

b) something really special.

So I cater for both. And like some of you guys, at the top end of the spectrum I'm starting to diversify a little and take on more of the event management, architectural lighting and decorating tasks because a large number of my, shall I say, "more affluent" clients travel to my little part of the world for their special celebrations usually with family & friends in tow.

So in my case, yes, a large number of clients DO care about the kit I turn out with. Plenty of 'oohs' and 'aahs' at the moving heads, laserball, video display.

And a large proportion don't. They have a stereotypical expectation of a smarmy bloke with a pair of speakers, couple of CD players and a few flashing lights. That's what they book. That's NOT what they get. And I'm building on that reputation and converting more and more into top-paying bells & whistles gigs.

Which is nice.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I They have a stereotypical expectation of a smarmy bloke with a pair of speakers, couple of CD players and a few flashing lights.

You leave Rob out of this....:D :D :D

[rob1963]

You leave Rob out of this....:D :D :D

:moon: :boxer2:

[theoloyla]

If YOU are a bright star you dont need spectacular lights. If you are not then you may rely on technology as your USP.