Crown XLS 802 amplifier advice please

[rob1963]

Hi guys,

Following recent advice, I'm looking to get a more powerful amplifier, and have been looking at the Crown XLS 802...partly because it gives 500 watts RMS per channel at 8 ohms (my current amp is only 290 watts RMS per channel), and partly because I've seen a few members mention that they use Crown amps.

Firstly, does anyone use or know about this model? If so, what's it like?

Secondly, will this amp be ok to run a pair of Mackie C300z speakers, or will it's 500 watts RMS per channel be a bit too much for the Mackies?

Thanks in advance for any advice or info.

:)

[wensleydale]

i have a 602 and bought an 802 for my dad.
also have some mackies as back up- yuor not a million miles away from me.
you could poss see them both in action if yuo know of a suitable venue?

[rob1963]

i have a 602 and bought an 802 for my dad.
also have some mackies as back up- yuor not a million miles away from me.
you could poss see them both in action if yuo know of a suitable venue?

Hi Wensleydale,

Thanks for the offer.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate your opinion on this amp.

Many thanks.

:)

[spin mobile disco]

Hi rob I use a pfx 1000 amp that provides 400 watts power to the cab rms per side. I would say that it cant ake 500 watts a side on c300z's but you will have to watch the clipping at that power as the slightest could damage them.

[CRAZY K]

Hi guys,

Following recent advice, I'm looking to get a more powerful amplifier, and have been looking at the Crown XLS 802...partly because it gives 500 watts RMS per channel at 8 ohms (my current amp is only 290 watts RMS per channel), and partly because I've seen a few members mention that they use Crown amps.

Firstly, does anyone use or know about this model? If so, what's it like?

Secondly, will this amp be ok to run a pair of Mackie C300z speakers, or will it's 500 watts RMS per channel be a bit too much for the Mackies?

Thanks in advance for any advice or info.

:)

Rob, why dont you buy a system matched for power and impedance by the Manufacturer?

Then you wont have to worry about any technical issues---or blowing the speakers:D

As you like Mackie why not go for the active System like Dave (Dragonfly)
or Daz? They love it.

I bought a complete new matched Peavey System few years ago--never have a problem--never blown a speaker.

Just a thought, I will be looking at Mackie actives for next year to save on space.

regards

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Rob, why dont you buy a system matched for power and impedance by the Manufacturer?

Then you wont have to worry about any technical issues---or blowing the speakers:D

As you like Mackie why not go for the active System like Dave (Dragonfly)
or Daz? They love it.

I bought a complete new matched Peavey System few years ago--never have a problem--never blown a speaker.

Just a thought, I will be looking at Mackie actives for next year to save on space.

regards

CRAZY K



And in actual fact Rob, the price isn't going to be that much different either.

300cz are around £300 (If you can get them that cheap)
Crown XLS 802 - cheapest I've seen was about £420.

So add on another £80 and you have a pair of 450s! :thumbsup:

[rob1963]

Darren,

Going back to my original plan, do you think the Mackies could handle an amp which gave a maximum of 500 watts rms per channel?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren,

Going back to my original plan, do you think the Mackies could handle an amp which gave a maximum of 500 watts rms per channel?

I would say so, and that would leave you head room too.

People in the 'know' about these things generally say that an amp should have 1 and a half times the power of the cabs to drive them properly, so I think that amp would be fine.

Do you not like the idea of active?

[rob1963]

I would say so, and that would leave you head room too.

People in the 'know' about these things generally say that an amp should have 1 and a half times the power of the cabs to drive them properly, so I think that amp would be fine.

Do you not like the idea of active?

Thanks for the info, and no - I'm not really keen on changing to actives.

I'm a creature of habit, and I've always had passive speakers & an amp...so I may as well carry on the same in my twilight years!

I also notice that the amp I'm looking at comes with a THREE year guarantee, which presumably it wouldn't if it wasn't a well built & reliable piece of kit.

[CRAZY K]

Thanks for the info, and no - I'm not really keen on changing to actives.

I'm a creature of habit, and I've always had passive speakers & an amp...so I may as well carry on the same in my twilight years!

I also notice that the amp I'm looking at comes with a THREE year guarantee, which presumably it wouldn't if it wasn't a well built & reliable piece of kit.

Rob, my Peavey set up has a 5 year guarantee---go figure!:D

regards

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Rob, my Peavey set up has a 5 year guarantee---go figure!:D

regards

CRAZY K

Fair enough, Crazy! :D

[Tony Scott]

Can't understand why people worry about too much power in an amp, use your ears and be sensible.

Only time I would worry is if I was doing a hire out or letting some over enthusiastic Drum & bass DJ use my kit..................like that's gonna happen! :D

Rob, get the most powerful amp you can afford and have a little faith in your ability to listen! :)

[wensleydale]

i use a 602 for most events and have never really got above 50% of power.
can't fault it.
bought it mainly because of the 3 yr guarantee, but have used Crown amps several times before and am not dissapointed by this one.

Have the Mackie speakers as a back up for the RCFs which are great.
Never been keen on actives after I borrowed EON 15 actives when at uni and one overheated durnig Robbie Williams....

[Tony Scott]

i use a 602 for most events and have never really got above 50% of power.
can't fault it.
bought it mainly because of the 3 yr guarantee, but have used Crown amps several times before and am not dissapointed by this one.

Have the Mackie speakers as a back up for the RCFs which are great.
Never been keen on actives after I borrowed EON 15 actives when at uni and one overheated durnig Robbie Williams....

That'll teach you to play Robbie Williams. :D

[wensleydale]

That'll teach you to play Robbie Williams. :D

it sounded better when it blew.....

[rob1963]

Following on from my first post in this thread, I've just purchased a brand new Crown XLS 802 amplifier with a 3 year guarantee, so when it arrives I'll have a 1 kW sound system rather than the 600 watt one I currently have.

Hopefully the extra power will give me more headroom for larger venues and also it shouldn't be clipping all the time.

I think I got a bargain, as there's a company on ebay selling 802s for £760 including delivery.

I got mine on the same site for £310 all in!

:D

[Tony Scott]

Following on from my first post in this thread, I've just purchased a brand new Crown XLS 802 amplifier with a 3 year guarantee, so when it arrives I'll have a 1 kW sound system rather than the 600 watt one I currently have.

Hopefully the extra power will give me more headroom for larger venues and also it shouldn't be clipping all the time.

I think I got a bargain, as there's a company on ebay selling 802s for £760 including delivery.

I got mine on the same site for £310 all in!

:D

Let's have a link then rob, very good price.

[rob1963]

Let's have a link then rob, very good price.

Sorry Tony, not possible.

It wasn't an ebay shop, but a 7 day listing from a seller who only had one.

:(

[Tony Scott]

Sorry Tony, not possible.

It wasn't an ebay shop, but a 7 day listing from a seller who only had one.

:(

D@mn it! :(

Good deal that Rob, v good amp.............not jealous at all! :D

[rob1963]

D@mn it! :(

Good deal that Rob, v good amp.............not jealous at all! :D

Thanks Tony,

I can't wait to use it at my wedding next Saturday.

It will be the first time in months that my amp has not been clipping!

:)

[Excalibur]

Thanks Tony,

I can't wait to use it at my wedding next Saturday.

It will be the first time in months that my amp has not been clipping!

:)

I have two amps of different ratings, small one was bought to match my speakers. Larger one was supposed to be same size, but was recommended to take it by shop staff. Guess which one works far and away best? Yes, the larger one!

[PropellerHeadCase]

It's all very well "using and trusting your ears" but I want to be able to, at need, turn my amps to full (which I almost never do) if the gigs requires it, as it did on Saturday.

[Danno13]

But your amps should be on full anyway.. provided they're a match to the speakers (even if their not, they should be on full and a limiter should be used..), so that the total control is on the mixer master, and you avoid clipping at signal level.

[TonyB]

But your amps should be on full anyway.. provided they're a match to the speakers (even if their not, they should be on full and a limiter should be used..), so that the total control is on the mixer master, and you avoid clipping at signal level.

Not strictly correct. To set up a proper gain structure, you start at the mixer and set it up so it gives an output of 0db. You then adjust any bits in between such as a GEQ and/or crossover to give a 0db output and the last part you adjust is the gain on the amp to set it at a level below clipping.

That way you have the best possible signal from the mixer with the minimum of noise. Wacking up the amp gains to full wastes power amplifying noise where it could be used to amplify music.

Its all a bit academic and it doesn't hurt running amps on full gain for DJ use.

[Danno13]

Fair enough.. but most advice I've read has been to run the amps on full, there must be two schools of thought I guess?

The only issue I can see with your way, is that how do you adjust the level throughout the night if you have the mixer fixed at 0db? Ok.. you can use the channel faders.. but that doesn't really lend itself to mixing, as you can end up bringing tracks in too loud, and its far easier to just be able to whack the fader to the top...

[TonyB]

Fair enough.. but most advice I've read has been to run the amps on full, there must be two schools of thought I guess?

The only issue I can see with your way, is that how do you adjust the level throughout the night if you have the mixer fixed at 0db? Ok.. you can use the channel faders.. but that doesn't really lend itself to mixing, as you can end up bringing tracks in too loud, and its far easier to just be able to whack the fader to the top...

Once you have the gain structure set, you can use the master fader to adjust the overall sound level in the knowledge that up to the maximum volume, there will be a clean signal. Individual channels can be adjusted using the channel faders or gain controls if the mixer has them. The master fader shouldn't usually be whacked to the top either. After about 80% you start getting noise from the mixer.

I set up some sound systems for live bands where it is a bit more critical not to have any noise through the speakers during the quiet bits. When you are DJing, there are not really any quiet bits where noise would be noticed so its not so critical. I know lots of people who run the amps on full gain all the time so as I said, its all a bit academic.

[Danno13]

The master fader shouldn't usually be whacked to the top either. After about 80% you start getting noise from the mixer.

Ahh yeah... i knew that, i was refering to the channel faders. I can't get the master on my mixer above about 70% without there being red lights!

[PropellerHeadCase]

I tend to set my amps at the maximum I think I'll need when my mixer is at 0dB, I then adjust my volume through the night at the master fader starting at background music level and slowly moving up as the night progresses.

If I set my amps at full my faders (both master and channel) are so close to the bottom of the track that even a fraction of a millimetre change in position is a big change in output at the speakers. I prefer to have my faders at zero, my channel input gains at 12 o'clock and my amps set at the right volume for the venue based on that. Seems to work.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I have always had my amps at full volume and my gains on the mixer at 12 o'clock too. I adjust the sound quality as and when I need to (some tracks are obviously more bassy or tinny than others - Oasis for example) and I control the volume using the faders. My master volume on the mixer is usually at about 12 o'clock too. I was always told to have the amps up at full volume and to control it all via the mixer so that's what I do..it works for me but yes, everyone is different.

[Tony Scott]

It's all very well "using and trusting your ears" but I want to be able to, at need, turn my amps to full (which I almost never do) if the gigs requires it, as it did on Saturday.

I respect what you're saying Al but I supose it all depends on how comfortable you are with your ability to judge whether or not you are pushing you system too far.

As an example on Saturday night I was running 4 x PD1850 sub bass horns with a combined RMS power raiting of 3200w, my 2 sub amps were turned all the way up and were running 2400w 4ohm bridge-mono each.

A total of 4.8kW running 3.2kW. I was playing the sound hard with Dub, D&B, Hardcore & Rave and was making a big sound! :D

I kept a very close watch on the output and clips and never even had one flashing RED light all night................I have a lot of faith in my ability to listen to my sound and engineer it with passion.
I have never had a driver blow on me, of that I am very proud! :)



Not strictly correct. To set up a proper gain structure, you start at the mixer and set it up so it gives an output of 0db. You then adjust any bits in between such as a GEQ and/or crossover to give a 0db output and the last part you adjust is the gain on the amp to set it at a level below clipping.

That way you have the best possible signal from the mixer with the minimum of noise. Wacking up the amp gains to full wastes power amplifying noise where it could be used to amplify music.

Its all a bit academic and it doesn't hurt running amps on full gain for DJ use.

I agree, keeps noise to a minimum and gives you an easy way of getting more volume if you need it by turning up the amp gains later in the evening without going above the 0db mixer/EQ/processor output.

That said if you are running a big multy way 3, 4 or 5 way system you can't really go around altering loads of amps. You have to sound check everything to the maximum required output and then cut the sound back on the mixer/desk.

My amps are nearly always run on full for a big show although for a small 2way Sub & Satalite set up I will follow the Gain Structure you have suggested. :)

[BeerFunk]

Amp always goes to full gain, I use my mixer for what it's designed for.

[CRAZY K]

Hi guys,

Following recent advice, I'm looking to get a more powerful amplifier, and have been looking at the Crown XLS 802...partly because it gives 500 watts RMS per channel at 8 ohms (my current amp is only 290 watts RMS per channel), and partly because I've seen a few members mention that they use Crown amps.

Firstly, does anyone use or know about this model? If so, what's it like?

Secondly, will this amp be ok to run a pair of Mackie C300z speakers, or will it's 500 watts RMS per channel be a bit too much for the Mackies?

Thanks in advance for any advice or info.

:)

Rob if your binning your old amp I could do with an extra back up amp---or is it going to a home for old age amps and drawing a pension:D

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Rob if your binning your old amp I could do with an extra back up amp---or is it going to a home for old age amps and drawing a pension:D

CRAZY K

Crazy,

I'll let you know on that one.

I already have a spare amp, but when the new one arrives I'll have 2 spare, which is more than I need...as I've never even had ONE amp pack up on me at a gig...

...although I DO get them regularly serviced.

[TonyB]

Amp always goes to full gain, I use my mixer for what it's designed for.

If amps were designed to run at full gain all the time then they wouldn't have gain controls :D

[rob1963]

If amps were designed to run at full gain all the time then they wouldn't have gain controls :D

That's not something I've thought of before, but it's actually a very good point, Tony!

I currently have my amp gain on full, and have the mixer LEDs peaking just before the red.

My new amp has much more power than the current one, and I'm not keen on the idea of still running the amp on maximum & reducing the mixer's output so that it's only peaking on the 3rd or 4th LED (out of 12).

Instead, I'll be keeping my mixer level where it is now, and will set the amp gain on about half to two thirds. Then, when I need more level, I'll just turn up the amp a bit.

:)

[wensleydale]

can you turn your new amp to 11?

[PropellerHeadCase]

Also, bear in mind that with your amps on full you have less protection from punters pushing your faders up to full when you are turned away (it has happened).

[CRAZY K]

Crazy,

I'll let you know on that one.

I already have a spare amp, but when the new one arrives I'll have 2 spare, which is more than I need...as I've never even had ONE amp pack up on me at a gig...

...although I DO get them regularly serviced.

Not bad--I have had two old valve amps pack up since 1968---thats it really!

Never lost an amp since about 1978 ---times running out:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

can you turn your new amp to 11?

:lol:

[CRAZY K]

If amps were designed to run at full gain all the time then they wouldn't have gain controls :D

THERES A THOUGHT!

I find a get hiss over the horns when I do that--so I dont :D

CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

Also, bear in mind that with your amps on full you have less protection from punters pushing your faders up to full when you are turned away (it has happened).

DEAD RIGHT--ESPECIALLY WITH KIDS AROUND:eek:

CRAZY K

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Just a quick question and something that I have been pondering over.

Currently on one of my set ups I use 2 amps. One of them (Crown XLS602) powers a pair of Peavey Pro Sub bass bins (600w each) and the other one (Peavey CS3000) powers the JBL speakers (1000w each).

Now, I was wondering...could I just use the Peavey CS3000 (3000w) to power the whole lot and use speak on cables from the amp to the JBL's and then from the JBL's to the Bass Bins? Just a simple question and an easy (and probably obvious) answer I guess.

To be honest, I am quite happy with what I currently use but I just wondered if this was possible.

[Excalibur]

Just a quick question and something that I have been pondering over.

Currently on one of my set ups I use 2 amps. One of them (Crown XLS602) powers a pair of Peavey Pro Sub bass bins (600w each) and the other one (Peavey CS3000) powers the JBL speakers (1000w each).

Now, I was wondering...could I just use the Peavey CS3000 (3000w) to power the whole lot and use speak on cables from the amp to the JBL's and then from the JBL's to the Bass Bins? Just a simple question and an easy (and probably obvious) answer I guess.

To be honest, I am quite happy with what I currently use but I just wondered if this was possible.

IMHO Definitely not, Peaveys will undoubtedly get more power than they can handle, and you will be feeding full range to subs, and full range to tops, thereby removing the point of crossovers. I am surprised to see how much more power you have on tops, as I understood it was preferable to have more power in subs.

[BeerFunk]

If amps were designed to run at full gain all the time then they wouldn't have gain controls :DTo be honest, I actually only set it to 90% gain. Always have done, always will, never blown an amp or speaker. So long as you're sensible, and you know what you're doing (in terms of matching your PA system up correctly), then you'll be OK :thumbs_up:

Also, bear in mind that with your amps on full you have less protection from punters pushing your faders up to full when you are turned away (it has happened).My mixer has a knob rather than a fader for master output, so this can't happen. Even if it did, I set each channel gain to below default, so I'll never send a clipped signal to my amp :)

[Tony Scott]

Also, bear in mind that with your amps on full you have less protection from punters pushing your faders up to full when you are turned away (it has happened).


DEAD RIGHT--ESPECIALLY WITH KIDS AROUND:eek:

CRAZY K

A whack on the knucles with the edge of a CD case sorts that out, the little bar-stewards! :mad: :D :D