Tricky - about PAT and ampage (fuses)

[DK Karaoke]

Was wondering what your opinions about fuse size and wattage needs of your powered mixers.

Had my PAT done just the other day, and the guy replaced nearly all my fuses with 3amp fuses, including the one in my power mixer. this mixer consumes up to 700 watts, however, if you plug two bass bins and tow top hats in the wattage consumption goes up above 700 amps.

So needless to say, did this wedding on Saturday night and low and behold when I tried to turn on the amp, it just stayed dead. I had to change the fuse to 13amp, to get it to work.

I told the PAT guy, who advised me to use 13amp for the mixeramp. Now as you know, the recommendations are - 3 amp fuse for a component using up to 600 watts.

So they must be wrong, or as least I think so.

What you do all think.

M

[spin mobile disco]

Very doubt it draws 7 amps. Outpu wattage is not the same as actual draw. I have a 1000 watt amp and it draws 5 amps and 625 amp and it draws 3 amps so its not really relevant.

[DK Karaoke]

Very doubt it draws 7 amps. Outpu wattage is not the same as actual draw. I have a 1000 watt amp and it draws 5 amps and 625 amp and it draws 3 amps so its not really relevant.

You may be right, my amp is rated at 2 X 340 at 8ohm, and 2 X 570 at 4ohm. My speakers are bass bins 500 watts each, and tops 350 watts each. I understand its better to have an amp that is rated less than the speakers to ensure you dont blow them. Am I right?

I am not very good at all this electrical stuff, just ensure I plug into the correct holes, with the correct cables etc. and have the power level set according to the book.

So if it draws 7 amps, does this mean that a 3 amp fuse will blow?

[Corabar Steve]

I told the PAT guy, who advised me to use 13amp for the mixeramp. Now as you know, the recommendations are - 3 amp fuse for a component using up to 600 watts.

I believe this to be partially true, the amount of recomended fuse ratings has reduced, not sure you should be using 3 amp for everything though. I'd have to look it up.

[Vibrant Sounds]

Guidelines for fuses are to use a 3 amp fuse for appliances that draw upto 700watts maximum and 13amp fuses for all appliances with a power rating of above 700 watt.

A fuse in a plug only protects the cable between the plug and the appliance. Each appliance should be fused internally with the correct rated fuse for the appliance.

[Thames Valley Discos]

See manufacturers recommended spec. Otherwise your warranty could be null and void

[Your Big Event]

As Ed states 13amp over 700w is the correct fuse rating.
Have you paid the PAT tester yet ?

[DK Karaoke]

See manufacturers recommended spec. Otherwise your warranty could be null and void

Now you've hit the nail on the head. It recommends a 13amp fuse, and came with a 13amp fuse.

So are those who decided that the requirements for PAT are 3amp fuses for such an appliance, now dictating what equipment we should or rather can use, that is if we want to get PAT we must use 3 amp fuses, but the manufacturer says 13 amp?
I know I dont intend to buy a new amp when the one I've got is excellent, and cost megga bucks.

I may be going off the handle here, but its the point I am trying to make. I certainly dont intend to make my warranty null and void, as it lasts for 3 years, with 2 and half left to go. It really gets my goat these law/decision makers who dont really look into the in's and out's of things, its just to my mind. 'power hungry' people and organisations dictating to the minioms, such as I.

[DK Karaoke]

As Ed states 13amp over 700w is the correct fuse rating.
Have you paid the PAT tester yet ?
Ya I have, but I think the firm is really top notch, and do know what they are doing, and the requirements etc. I think its more to do with the PAT recommendations, as I said in my last post.

[Thames Valley Discos]

Now you've hit the nail on the head. It recommends a 13amp fuse, and came with a 13amp fuse.

.
then 13A it is.
People who pat test do not understand all the items they test.

[CRAZY K]

Guidelines for fuses are to use a 3 amp fuse for appliances that draw upto 700watts maximum and 13amp fuses for all appliances with a power rating of above 700 watt.

A fuse in a plug only protects the cable between the plug and the appliance. Each appliance should be fused internally with the correct rated fuse for the appliance.

I dont know technically, but I would have thought using a 5 amp fuse would be more sensible with most disco equipment---amps, lights etc that dont exceed around 1200 watts AND 3 Amps for 700 watts.

I dont expect the ordinary lights and sound we use would exceed that too often?

For that reason it also makes no sense to have 13 amps for anything over 700watts when a nearer fuse would usually be 5 amps---?

Normally only Kettles, Washing Machines Tumble dryers and Electric Fires etc that draw HIGH amounts of current would need a 13 amp fuse.

Or am I wrong?

My PAT people have never raised this point before:confused:

CRAZY K

[DK Karaoke]

For that reason it also makes no sense to have 13 amps for anything over 700watts when a nearer fuse would usually be 5 amps---?

Normally only Kettles, Washing Machines Tumble dryers and Electric Fires etc that draw HIGH amounts of current would need a 13 amp fuse.

Or am I wrong?

My PAT people have never raised this point before:confused:

CRAZY K

According to 'PAT' guidelines, there is no such thing as 5amp fuse, or rather they are not to be used!!!!

Again, here are they dictating to the electronics industry? in totality

[Corabar Steve]

Indeed

[Vibrant Sounds]

Or am I wrong?
CRAZY K

YES!

Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

I am stating a fact from the regulations, and then others try to muddy the waters.

There is no mention in the regulations of 5amp or 10amp fuses. The powers that be have decided that all appliances with a power rating not exceeding 700 watts will have a 3amp fuse. Anything with a power rating above that will have a 13amp fuse. End of story.

It may make sense to have a 5amp fuse (get them whilst you can) and even a 10amp fuse (most 1mm sq cs cable is rated to 10amp), but that does not matter, the powers that be HAVE decided that only 3amp and 13amp fuses are mentioned in the regulations.

As I also said earlier, the fuse only protects the cable, the appliance should have it's own fuse to protect it, either internally, as part of the IEC socket or as a seperate externally accessible holder, and this will be rated to the current draw of the appliance.

[Thames Valley Discos]

there is the " Crest factor". The amp has peaks that can briefly draw hig current. I think most amps are 13A for proffesional use.

[DK Karaoke]

Another thing, What if we use a fuse above the mandatory 3 amp and something goes wrong, not due to the equipment with the 'in excess of 3 amp' are we liable, because we have not complied with PAT???????????

Ah, but then again, its only a 'MOT' of our equipment at a certain point in time, which by the shear fact that we have it, means we are covered, or does it not, even if we change the fuses in our equipment.

Again, it proves to me how worthless this PAT is in the first place.

Also does this mean our PLI in invalid also, there is more to this than people realise, or rather want to realise, I think anyway.

Seeing as it affects us DJ's I think we should ask some pertinent questions to those 'Law/Decision' makers of PAT.

What do you all say??

[DK Karaoke]

YES!

Sometimes I don't know why I bother.

The powers that be have decided that all appliances with a power rating not exceeding 700 watts will have a 3amp fuse. Anything with a power rating above that will have a 13amp fuse. End of story.

By chance are you one of those 'Law/Decision' makers, or were you involved in the decision??????

Just interested.

[Vibrant Sounds]

Seeing as it affects us DJ's I think we should ask some pertinent questions to those 'Law/Decision' makers of PAT.

What do you all say??

I think your trousers will get wet next time you take a leak!

[DK Karaoke]

I think your trousers will get wet next time you take a leak!

Ah but, at least I'm covered!!

[Vibrant Sounds]

By chance are you one of those 'Law/Decision' makers, or were you involved in the decision??????

Just interested.

No, just a PAT tester who abides by the regulations. I have never said I agreed with them, only what they stated.

As for the trouser quip, I was suggesting "you will be weeing in the wind", the decision makers don't listen to the likes of us, or worse, reasoned arguments.

[DK Karaoke]

No, just a PAT tester who abides by the regulations. I have never said I agreed with them, only what they stated.

As for the trouser quip, I was suggesting "you will be weeing in the wind", the decision makers don't listen to the likes of us, or worse, reasoned arguments.

No worries, I though that was what you meant, but if I did, I guess I am still covered, this means how stupid the whole thing is. You need to be covered to go for a wee now.

I think I better shut up now, but the point remains, unless we actually do something about things, then nothing will ever change. If we were never to change, then what a boring show we would all put on, and probably be out of business in next to no time.

[Tony Scott]

I think maybe the PAT tester assumed the mixer was unpowered.

It's all got a bit silly I believe, everything has at least one internal 20mm fuse to protect the equipment, I carry loads of different 20mm fuses as well as the standard 3amp, 5amp & 13amp types.

If anything is seriously wrong enough to cause a fire or injury even a 13amp fuse will blow! I don't know of any piece of DJ kit that's got an IEC cable that would melt before a 13amp fuse failed.
:)