Peavey or Mackie sub

[spin mobile disco]

Ok finally got some money to invest in some sub support for my sound system. Up to now was using a pair of peavey st15's as full range floor speakers to reinforce bass of my mackie c300z's.
Finally decided to go seperate subs and get rid of the peavey full range in the hope of increasing those heavey bass lines.

Now my current choice is either a singe mackie swa1501 or a pair of peavey pro subs. Peavey pro subs weigh in at 26 kilos each or the mackie at 40 kilos.
I regulary play at venue's up to 300 people and feel that my peavey full range can not provide the bass I feel I require for such venue's.
I am concerned that the single mackie may not provide enough bass but it does weigh a lot less than the 2 peaveys put together. But the 2 peaveys are much cheaper and come with a 5 year warantee as standard.
I have looked at 18" subs but feel they are to bulky for me to carry to a lot of my venue's and feel that they are also to heavy.

If you know of any other speakers that may fit my requirements please feel free to suggest them but please remember the following. I have a limited amount of funds so consider that the price of a mackie swa1501 (around £480) is my upper limit and that I require something robust with good bass but also that any more than 30 kilos per sub will rule it out (unless it is a single sub than can do the job of 2 in which case up to 40 kilos is acceptable.


Thanks for any help guys, im attaching a piccie of a typical venue I play to give you an idea of what size they will be required for.

[DJWayne]

A mate of mine uses a celestion substation a single unit you can get in a 15" or 18" configuration and it produces an impressive amount of bass for its size and is almost indestructable :)

[Tom]

what about going for DB technologies. I am going to to get the DB Sub 15 which is 800 watts rms and is about £500. you can get cheaper (about £480) but i dont know if im allowed to share the website on here.

im sure that the sub 15 is more than enough bass plus DB technologies i think are a really good, solid brand. :D :D :D

[Vibrant Sounds]

One of the best powered subs on the market is the RCF art705as. It is 800 watt RMS but a little heavier than the Mackie. Superb sound, a few peplehave changed from Mackie subs to this one, the downside is it's just over £600. Might be worth saving for another week or so and doubling your Bass power for a little extra weight and money.

I am seriously considering buying a pair of these to use as Bass Bins and using my Bose L1s as the mid/tops.

[spin mobile disco]

Prehaps should have added doesnt have to be powered but if it not powered I can provide up to 390 watts rms at 4 ohms or if it is an 8 ohm speaker I can provide 800watts in bridged mode if neccesary.
Is the rcf powerful enough to be used as a singe ? you said a pair so just wanted to clarify, just having a look at DB now, again are they ok on their own or would a pair be required?

[CRAZY K]

Prehaps should have added doesnt have to be powered but if it not powered I can provide up to 390 watts rms at 4 ohms or if it is an 8 ohm speaker I can provide 800watts in bridged mode if neccesary.
Is the rcf powerful enough to be used as a singe ? you said a pair so just wanted to clarify, just having a look at DB now, again are they ok on their own or would a pair be required?

Couple of thoughts Matt--

If you use two speakers you have back up if one " blows"

I think its neater to have a pair of Subs with poles--- either side of you--- than one sub on one side or in the middle under the " Disco "

It also looks more impressive--when you connect up the four cabs it looks like people are getting their moneys worth--yeah I know the story about smaller speakers these days---my punters dont!!!!!!!

Perception its called.

Space is the only real issue I think ( in your vehicle )

Weight?-get a sack trolley--but I know you get some nightmare venues as regards access.

HTH

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It also looks more impressive--when you connect up the four cabs it looks like people are getting their moneys worth

And you really think people will notice that? :rolleyes:

[spin mobile disco]

Thanks for comments so far guys have taken on board, liking the DB Sub 15 woofer at the moment. Anyones opinion on coverage with this model?
I like the 32 kilos and 133db spl. Sounds good. Anyone use one by itself and for example pic I used at top shows a venue they get 400 people in would it fill up this venue by itself if used with my mackie c300z's (basically srm 450's but without onboard amp.)

[Vibrant Sounds]

Is the rcf powerful enough to be used as a singe ? you said a pair so just wanted to clarify, just having a look at DB now, again are they ok on their own or would a pair be required?

I would suspect that the RCF705As will be better than the DB tech Sub15, for a start the cabinet is ply rather than the chipboardy stuff DB tech use, hence the extra weight.

Why do I want a pair? well I have always been led to believe that to get a good balanced sound you require about twice the amount of bass than what you have for mid/tops. As my Bose L1s are 500 watts rms each then I think to get the best balance they require 800-1000 watts rms of subs per L1. As the quality of the RCF (cabinet, amp and sound) is really high, I feel they would be a great match for my Bose L1s.

Now my question, why are people paying more than half as much again for the RCF705 than they could for the DB SUB15? (answer: Quality)

[spin mobile disco]

Unfortunatly the RCF are out of my price range unless you know a really cheap supplier of them.

[Excalibur]

And you really think people will notice that? :rolleyes:

Undoubtedly!

[spin mobile disco]

Just been checking the, DB 15 sub is made from laminated beach wood, so is not chipboard. So its chassis at least would be comparable to the rcf on that score.

[CRAZY K]

And you really think people will notice that? :rolleyes:

YES

But I suppose its a bit OTT for a Barn Dance Caller:D

For a Disco its normal;)

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Ok finally got some money to invest in some sub support for my sound system. Up to now was using a pair of peavey st15's as full range floor speakers to reinforce bass of my mackie c300z's.
Finally decided to go seperate subs and get rid of the peavey full range in the hope of increasing those heavey bass lines.

Now my current choice is either a singe mackie swa1501 or a pair of peavey pro subs. Peavey pro subs weigh in at 26 kilos each or the mackie at 40 kilos.
I regulary play at venue's up to 300 people and feel that my peavey full range can not provide the bass I feel I require for such venue's.
I am concerned that the single mackie may not provide enough bass but it does weigh a lot less than the 2 peaveys put together. But the 2 peaveys are much cheaper and come with a 5 year warantee as standard.
I have looked at 18" subs but feel they are to bulky for me to carry to a lot of my venue's and feel that they are also to heavy.

If you know of any other speakers that may fit my requirements please feel free to suggest them but please remember the following. I have a limited amount of funds so consider that the price of a mackie swa1501 (around £480) is my upper limit and that I require something robust with good bass but also that any more than 30 kilos per sub will rule it out (unless it is a single sub than can do the job of 2 in which case up to 40 kilos is acceptable.


Thanks for any help guys, im attaching a piccie of a typical venue I play to give you an idea of what size they will be required for.

Not exactly what you are looking for, but check out Class-D CD215 speakers.
22Kg each, 500w each,two 15" units per cab, earth pounding bass, all for £160! You could buy an amp to go with them and have change from £400 all up, if you were lucky. Just a thought, hope it helps.

[Twinspin]

I have heard the DB Sub 15 and it is powerful and decent. But i am an owner of the RCF ART 705 and that is a great sub well worth the money

The 705 does an half have some crank behind it i use it with Mackie SRM450s and it sounds brilliant. If you want a cheaper alternative then its out of the DB Technologies and the Mackie Sub

but speaking on behalf of the RCF ART 705 its an amazing subwoofer!! As for the function room you have shown in the picture (piece of cake for the RCF)

If you were nearby to me id of let ya have a test drive with my RCFART 705 with your C300z cabs


One of the best powered subs on the market is the RCF art705as. It is 800 watt RMS but a little heavier than the Mackie. Superb sound, a few peplehave changed from Mackie subs to this one, the downside is it's just over £600. Might be worth saving for another week or so and doubling your Bass power for a little extra weight and money.

I am seriously considering buying a pair of these to use as Bass Bins and using my Bose L1s as the mid/tops.

Wont go far wrong with those Ed. Extremely powerful

[Tom]

RCF ART 705 Features

High current 800 watt RMS class H amplifier
130 dB max SPL
15" high power woofer, 3" inside/outside copper coil.
Response down to 40 Hz.
Selectable high pass crossover: 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz
Phase switch.
Recessed line level control
System status LED's
Electronic limiter and protection.
Mono/Stereo combo XLR/Jack input.
Mono/Stereo XLR signal output.
Mono/Stereo XLR high pass output.
Baltic birch compact enclosure and two side handles for easy transportation.
Built in pole mount, two M10 points for optional speaker kart.
Dimensions: 17.13" W x 23.23" H x 23.62" D
Weight: 81.59 lbs
Price £660.62




DB Technologies Sub 15 Features

SUB 15
• 15" Active-subwoofer
• MT-Amp 800 W/RMS
• 40 – 120 Hz (±3 dB)
• Max. SPL 133dB
• 2 x Neutrik Combo Input
• 2 x XLR Parallel-Out
• 2 x XLR X-Over-Out
• Phase reverse switch
• Dynamic softclip limiter
• Weight: only 32 kg

Price £485.48

here's a short video of the sub 15

http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pgid=1&pugid=39&psugid=0&pid=110

[spin mobile disco]

Anyone have a best price on each unit? give me an idea of the difference. I must admit I am leaning towards the DB due to price but I can still be pursuided otherwize if the prices are good.

[Twinspin]

The sub 15 looks almost identical to the RCF the back looks the same and the side handles are the same. only difference is the RCF sub has RCF written in the middle of the carry handle and the db has the db logo
and of course the material the cabinet is made out of

only difference i can really see is the front of the sub (RCF has a metal grille) and the db like a rounded piece with the two airholes at the bottom

[Tom]

RCF ART 705 Features

High current 800 watt RMS class H amplifier
130 dB max SPL
15" high power woofer, 3" inside/outside copper coil.
Response down to 40 Hz.
Selectable high pass crossover: 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz
Phase switch.
Recessed line level control
System status LED's
Electronic limiter and protection.
Mono/Stereo combo XLR/Jack input.
Mono/Stereo XLR signal output.
Mono/Stereo XLR high pass output.
Baltic birch compact enclosure and two side handles for easy transportation.
Built in pole mount, two M10 points for optional speaker kart.
Dimensions: 17.13" W x 23.23" H x 23.62" D
Weight: 81.59 lbs
Price £660.62




DB Technologies Sub 15 Features

SUB 15
• 15" Active-subwoofer
• MT-Amp 800 W/RMS
• 40 – 120 Hz (±3 dB)
• Max. SPL 133dB
• 2 x Neutrik Combo Input
• 2 x XLR Parallel-Out
• 2 x XLR X-Over-Out
• Phase reverse switch
• Dynamic softclip limiter
• Weight: only 32 kg

Price £485.48

did you read it . lol. well these are the best prices i can find.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

YES

But I suppose its a bit OTT for a Barn Dance Caller:D

For a Disco its normal;)

CRAZY K

I totally disagree.

People in general don't notice what gear you use, unless you have a massive show or something too small for the venue.

I can't believe a man of your experience Alan, would believe that a client would notice if you had subs or not...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

did you read it . lol. well these are the best prices i can find.

Doesn't say where from though...:rolleyes:

[Tom]

Doesn't say where from though...:rolleyes:

www.djempire.co.uk

[CRAZY K]

I totally disagree.

People in general don't notice what gear you use, unless you have a massive show or something too small for the venue.

I can't believe a man of your experience Alan, would believe that a client would notice if you had subs or not...

OH YES---after they are used to someone with a pair of hi fi speakers:D

CRAZY K

[Twinspin]

As for what darren said about the size or too small for the stage. Ill admit my show is about 8ft maximum across

not a big show though but the lights i have on my show are powerful. Over the last 8 months i have spent a few grand on my show and got it looking to how i want it.

Now sat night i did a double 18th in a big venue on a stage which was a lot wider than my show but my show was still noticable and it didnt fail to impress the client or any of the guests

The guy who booked the disco was amazed by the lightshow and everything else about the show. At first there he was when booking moaning about the price i charged him. But by the end of the night he was more than happy to pay the price and i even got a £50 tip on top of that.

Now for the venue size my show was small but small doesnt mean its not powerful and the guy who booked it learnt that. He said its the best lightshow he's ever seen. and comented on the quality of the sound as well

[Tom]

not bad then

[Silver]

Here's the fella.......... I use it with the Mackie 450's and it rocks http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/shop/view_product.php?product=rcfart705as&searchlink=yes&search=RCF&page=1 http://planetsmilies.net/music-smiley-1306.gif

[Twinspin]

same shop where i got mine that £675

[Dillmiester]

I was considoring the DB Sub 15 for a while but couldnt get to listen to them anywhere near Leicester. If it helps DB is a sister company to RCF and share alot of components and design.
In the end I have gone for the Peavey Pro Sub P as I dont do many gigs to support the £500 for the DB and at £250 I think the Peavey is a great price. If one isnt enough I will add another although on initial testing it seems to easily match my Class D 15's for power. Ive got two gigs this weekend, one in a medium size sports club and one outdoors so I will update how I got on later.
I wouldnt go with the Mackie as its an old design that weighs a ton now. But if weight is not an issue and you can get them at a good price then go for it.
The peavey is just light enough for one person to carry (still not light by any means though).

[Vectis]

I use the Prosub-P's with Pro-15 full range.

Small venues up to 100 folks = Pro-15's on their own.
Medium to large venues = Pro-15's + 1 x Prosub-P
Large or outdoor venues = 2 sets of Pro-15's and 2 x Prosub-P

When using Prosub(s) I use an EQ to take out all frequencies below 120Hz between source and amp for the Pro-15's and let the subs handle these. If I feel I need a bit more bass reinforcement (rarely!) I can bring them up again.

[spin mobile disco]

As much as I like peavey stuff I think that 1 sub won't really do it and 2 would be to expensive. The sensitivity on a peavey is 97db and the DB sub 15 is 136db and as 2 elclosurers only add a 3db variation in volume per enclosure I think the single enclosure of the db sub may be a better bet as it only weighs 32 kilos. Just checked something out the rcf art705 uses the same driver as the DB sub 15 only real difference is that they use different enclosurers and different amps.

[Vibrant Sounds]

only real difference is that they use different enclosurers and different amps.

And I think you will probably find, that both those things actually make ALL the difference.

[spin mobile disco]

Not all , some. Both enclosurers use laminated wood one uses beach one uses birch. Both use an 800 watt amp. One weighs less than other other costs more.
All a bit of a compromise relly.

[Vibrant Sounds]

Not all , some. Both enclosurers use laminated wood one uses beach one uses birch. Both use an 800 watt amp. One weighs less than other other costs more.
All a bit of a compromise relly.

Not really sure about the veracity of the 'laminated beech' claim, I had a SUB12 (same family, same claims) and when I received it, it had 2 chips out of it, and it sure looked like beech chipboard to me. Also the weight is decidedly suspect, there is no way that it is ply.

The RCF art705 on the other hand states 'Birch Plywood', not Beech lamination (chipboard is a type of lamination, which is why it does not say Beech Plywood).

But, cabinets aside, the big difference will be in the amplifier (class H) and the power supply to such (which is also what adds further weight to the cabinet) and ensures enough current to really bang out the power.

I am sure whatever you decide you will be happy with and it will do the job for you.

I have had three different DB technologies active subs, 1x SUB12 and 2x Opera 41.15s and bought them all because of their price.
Did they do a job? Yes.
Would I buy them again? NO! and if I could not afford better I would wait until I could afford the Art705As, even if it meant buying one and another later on.

Just my experiences and thoughts.

[Stephen_N.I.]

From my joinery days I built contract wadrobes from chipboard and plywood.
Chipboard is very esily chipped and damaged and plywood is nearly indestructable, marine ply is the strongest and used for heavy duty applications.

[Tom]

marine ply is the strongest and used for heavy duty applications.

it may be the strongest but i thought it was about sound quality and high spl. yes marine ply could easily cope with the does it sound any good with high spl but would it sound any good???

[spin mobile disco]

Well worst comes to worst I can always remake cabinate if it fails, in plywood. I hope not but worst comes to the worst. Simple fact is I have to replace my current peavey support before september as I had already promised them to someone by then. I had originally expected to buy 2 peavey pro subs and had set some money aside expecting to buy them. However as I had a short notice booking come in last week it allowed me to double my budget from £250 to £500. I have no doubt that you are all right that the RCF is the better all round. But as it is almost £200 above my maximum im afraid it priced itself out. The mackie sub which was my second choice I was talked out of by both forum members and the shops I spoke to as since they changed to chinese manafacture the quality has gone down hill badly. (thanks god my c300z's were made before this) I did a lot of follow up work from comments by people in this thread and have looked at all sugested subs with an open mind.
When I rang up 5 different online retailers of the speakers and asked what I needed to match my mackies and the budget the first response in every case was choose the RCF, and if you cant afford it buy the DB sub 15. None of the shops I spoke to rated the mackies , class D or several other brands. Not complaining just simply unsuatable for my needs (be it to heavey , to pricey or just naff.)
In the end I decided to go for the DB sub 15 and managed to get it for £479 a few pounds off after some creative price matching. I thought If it turns out unsuitable then my 7 day online warantee comes into play, IF its ok then no problem. I do like the look of it and the specs seem fine.
Im told the spl of 133db constant is very good and nearly 4 times the impact of the peavey or class D's (97db for peavey 90db for class D)
My mackies are rated to 123db so should be a nice match I hope.

Thanks a lot for everyone who posted to help me out and whether I went with your suggestion or not thank you for making it as it has made a big difference to what I was expecting to get.

On a similar topic now assuming use of the new db sub 15 as I only have 1 where would be the best place to position it and also in the room I showed in my first post, would you consider with the mackies that this sub will provide sufficient bass for a teen type party in this room?

Just wondering thats all treat it as a what if question.

[Tom]

as its a sub it can be placed anywhere because bass notes travel in all directions but if you want looks then try to keep the sub central and it shine.

[Key2]

Unfortunatly the RCF are out of my price range unless you know a really cheap supplier of them.

I know this won't go down well with some people...but if you contact your counties police headquarters, they will usually tell you which auction house handles their sales of confiscated items. Then when an illegal rave gets raided and the gear is taken away, you can buy it cheap! I used to buy and sell from police auctions but they got over-run with bargain hunters, fuelled by various e-books being sold online entitled 'Get rich at police auctions', although I'm told things have settled down again. Consider also, bankruptcy auctions selling off the contents of nightclubs etc. usually @ 10-15% of usual costs.

John:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You really think that people running an illegal rave would be using quality gear like RCF?

[Corabar Steve]

You really think that people running an illegal rave would be using quality gear like RCF?

I would've thought they would use whatever they could lay their hands on. This may well include high end kit.

[Twinspin]

If thats true about the DB Technologies sub using the same driver as the ART 705as then the DB Sub15 will be fitted with an RCF driver

the driver in the art 705 is RCF

[Tom]

check this out


http://www.dbtechnologies.com/images/news/MAILING-BÖRSE-GB.jpg

[Cj_The_Dj]

i like peavey good sound and realy good bass a+++++++ highly recomended