* Video Screens *

[Steve Hart]

Hi All,
I was doing a disco Friday and in the hall next to me was another disco using big projection screens. When he was palying a track the video of the track was also playing on the screen's. I was going to ask him after packing up but forgot all about it and went. Does anyone use this and how is it done as it looks very impressive.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

DVD players made specifically for VJing or software like Virtual DJ also does it.

Companies like Mixmash and the Video Pool sell the discs.

[DMX Will]

Hi Steve,

We do it, but I wouldn't suggest you run it yourself (well not the way we do it anyway). I have a seperate VT tech who runs a dedicated VT mixer, with all the inputs on seperate TVs to preview them (iPod, DVD, R4, Flash/Slideshow), he can then mix them together and do some very funky and clever stuff.

We now have a new Tascam DVD player, that sits up by me, and I use it just like a CD player, Cue up a dvd track, and have it's sound connected to my DJ mixer, whilst the DVD video is connected to the VT mixer. This means everything is in sync and looks great.

We also overlay and use abstract visuals. We use R4, which is only £200, and very flexible. We've also taken this same setup into clubs where we do our under 18s nights, and they're always impressed.

Same with the iPod video...although its a bit harder. You can download the videos from iTunes at 1.89 a pop, load them onto your ipod. I use a dock, which takes out S-video, and a sound output, as before I take the sound, the other guy takes the video. And again we have sync'd music videos. It's harder to do on the iPod, but after some practice it's not all that bad.

We by no means play music videos back to back, as a) that would be very hard work for us, and b) we don't have the stock of videos to do this.

HTH.

[Steve Hart]

Cheers Will, thanks for the info

[Tom]

R4 looks cool but i think i have a free copy on a pc mag somwhere???

[jamesh]

Hi Steve,

We do it, but I wouldn't suggest you run it yourself (well not the way we do it anyway). I have a seperate VT tech who runs a dedicated VT mixer, with all the inputs on seperate TVs to preview them (iPod, DVD, R4, Flash/Slideshow), he can then mix them together and do some very funky and clever stuff.

We by no means play music videos back to back, as a) that would be very hard work for us, and b) we don't have the stock of videos to do this.

HTH.

SOrry but i disagree... The way you are doing it... Yes i wouldn't advise it being a one person operation as it's not practical to do the video and audio side of things BUT in my opinion your way of doing it isn't really the easiest way to introduce VJing into a disco setup and in fact creates more possible problems and things that could go wrong on the night....

With software such as Virtual DJ or OTS AV It is very possible to do by yourself mixing audio, video, visuals and live camera feeds all by one person... I've done it quite a few times... I've even been known to speak on the mic too :D

Runnning muisc video back to back isn't difficult either (as long as you have enough of them though) it's just the same as playing a CD... only it's got the video to go with it... ALthough again i don't tend to play music videos none stop as there is so much more you can do with visuals, text and live feeds etc it would be a waste...

Within the next year or so (as software develops even more) you will see many more disco companies adopting video into their setups and it will start to become as common as a starcloth :eek: :rolleyes: :D

[DJ Frankie]

Do clients really pay for stuff like this or is it a case of mines bigger than your's :p
Sounds like hard work to me, It must take ages to set up and pack down....

[Vectis]

I use r4 too, with two TFT screens mounted on my goalpost/gantry and/or one or two projectors mounted on lighting stands and (usually) pointing at side walls, floor or ceiling or alternatively I have a large rear-projection screen if the venue can stand it.

Using r4 I also run shadowdancers, a webcam feed, and I have about 100 or so videos for commonly played songs which I've digitised.

Finally I've added a bunch of advertising graphics I've created myself - gently-moving logo's for example that can be left running whilst folks are arriving. I also offer to take digital photos from wedding couples and run them as a slideshow during first dances - you have never seen grandma's blub so much as when they see the baby photo's... :D

This all runs from one laptop split screen, with the TFTs/Projectors running r4 fullscreen on 'screen2' whilst 'screen1' runs the r4 web interface. So changing from one mode to another is a click of a mouse.

So, for a total outlay of about £2k, I have r4 abstract graphics, shadowdancers, pop videos, "live" webcam, advertising medium and a great feature for weddings all running from one laptop. Takes about an extra 10-15 minutes to set up and I charge between £50-£150 for the privilege ... depends whether it's a case of dropping in a couple of TFTs or whether I need to faff about with projectors. About 75% of clients take up the option.

All I need now is Mr Mayhem's "How To" dance DVD and I'll be offering it to kids parties too!

[DMX Will]

SOrry but i disagree... The way you are doing it... Yes i wouldn't advise it being a one person operation as it's not practical to do the video and audio side of things BUT in my opinion your way of doing it isn't really the easiest way to introduce VJing into a disco setup and in fact creates more possible problems and things that could go wrong on the night....

We may not do it the easiest way, but is that such a bad thing? You don't get the best results from doing things the easiest way. Our setup exceeds al expectations of all our clients. As I said in my last post, we get "Ooohs" and "Ahhs" from the Club we use our U18 nights for, and have a considerablly better setup than them.

We have up to 5 inputs, and don't by any means soley rely on a PC, if our PC goes down, a quick crossfade to another input, and we're sorted. Where are a computer-only based setup would be dead, and whereas you may have another backup PC, you've got to switch it over and set it off.

Hardware solutions are more reliable than PC solution anyday of the week. Physical equipment also has the advantages of doing more things at once. You only have one mouse, but you've got two hands to turn two or three faders/knobs at the same time.

I'm not having a "My kit is better than yours" match, but what I am saying is the easiest method isn't always, infact nearly always isn't the method that gets you the best results.

[jamesh]

Do clients really pay for stuff like this or is it a case of mines bigger than your's :p
Sounds like hard work to me, It must take ages to set up and pack down....

Yes clients do pay for it... perhaps not as many as a standard disco but it is becoming more popular... and as for setup time it really does depend on what you use at the moment - for me it's just a case of adding in how ever many screens required or plugging into the projector - so it would only be slightly more time... But if you were using vision mixing desks and such like then yeah it could add extra time on...


We may not do it the easiest way, but is that such a bad thing? You don't get the best results from doing things the easiest way. Our setup exceeds al expectations of all our clients. As I said in my last post, we get "Ooohs" and "Ahhs" from the Club we use our U18 nights for, and have a considerablly better setup than them.



So does my way using a computer :p



We have up to 5 inputs, and don't by any means soley rely on a PC, if our PC goes down, a quick crossfade to another input, and we're sorted. Where are a computer-only based setup would be dead, and whereas you may have another backup PC, you've got to switch it over and set it off.


Yes you a quite right anyone who relys on one computer for any sort of gig is just stupid and taking a big risk. It's the same with the video side of things... You should never put all your eggs in one basket!

My gig box is made up of 2 identical systems which are both up and running during a gig and ready to go If one fails i just flick a switch and the output to the projector and screens is then running from the 2nd machine... So in fact it's identical - if one of you DVD players freezes or the DVD is scratched you'd have to press play and cross fade over to another player...

As for inputs... I have all the music videos and visuals stored on the harddrive ready to go and Virtual DJ has 2 decks (so with the back up machine too thats 4 decks) and i can also write both static and scrolling text so don't need 5 inputs and i can take live camera feeds via Firewire or the PCI card i have in the systems...



Hardware solutions are more reliable than PC solution anyday of the week. Physical equipment also has the advantages of doing more things at once. You only have one mouse, but you've got two hands to turn two or three faders/knobs at the same time.

I'm not having a "My kit is better than yours" match, but what I am saying is the easiest method isn't always, infact nearly always isn't the method that gets you the best results.

In general hardware solutions can be more reliable BUT it depends how it's setup and who it's made by. You also have the same amount of risk at a function using hardware as a computer based systems such as drinks being spilt, people knocking or dropping things, kit over heating or just breaking down...

Also your comments saying you can only use a mouse where as hardware you can tweek more than one knob at once... We it's rubbish and perhaps you need to have another look at computerised packages that let you do aduio / video and karaoke from the one software.

Personally i run audio and videos using the Dac 3 which allows me to cue, play and even mix the videos and i also have various keyboard short cuts set up so while one had is on the controller hitting the buttons required the other can hit the keyboard shortcut to ensure everything happens at once...

Again i don't want this to be a mines bigger than yours topic either and dont think it is... we are just pointing out 2 very different ways of performing the same job...

An example of how i used my computer systems to aid me and proved better for a job is one i did recently... (the reason i didn't make DJ show north) and that was i had to provide all the technical support and kit for a county young tallent singing contest... Now this was all controlled and operated by myself - 1 tech running everything... without the computer systems that wouldn't have been possible. - well actually it would but the contoll area would have looked like a bomb site and would have meant lots of juggling of Cd's and dvd's.

All the sound and 5 wireless mics were controlled by a mixing desk and audio played out via virtual dj through computer 1, all the lighting was controlled by computer 2 via freestyler (with virtual dj open and running as back up audio) and then all the video and visualisations as well as the contestants name on screen was controlled by computer 1 running virtual dj and the audio.

I also had a 3rd computer system running as back up with all the software, audio video and lighting cues on so should one of the machines die for any reason i could switch over to the 3rd machine to carry on the night as the usual back up system was being used as the main lighting machine.

Now when i first spec'd the job i wanted 2 operators on the night to cover the 3 jobs of audio, video and lighting but because most of the local guys i know were off to DJ show north it meant i had to run it alone!

Now for each contestant they would be called onto stage have a brief interview then sing their songs then be put up infront of a panel of judges then move on to the next one.... Here's a simple brief list of the technical requirments for just one contestant...

1. satge lights on, video on show logo, presenter mic on - presenter calls up contestant....

2. Audio of contestant walk on starts lighting changes to contestant walk on cue, contestants name goes onto screen, contestants mic gets turned up.....

3.Interview finished it was a case of presenter mic off, lights fade to black, contestants audio starts light cue for that song starts, visualisations are active with name still visable over them....

4. End of the song... Lighting fades out, visualisations stop, show logo reapears, presenter mic up, stage lights back up for a how was that moment.


5. Then over to the judges... Judges audio kicks in, judges lighting cue of lighting panning to judges gets hit and judges logo gets put on screen and all 3 judges mics get turned on...

6. back to stage lighting cue. show logo on the visuals for a final sum up by presenter and contestant...

Now that had to be done for each of the 10 contestants... all by myself - without doing it computerised that wouldn't have been possible (well it would be would have been a nightmare) as just not enough hands to juggle cd's, dvd's and audio mixer and vision mixer channels... where as with a computer most of the lighting cues were set up to shortcuts on the keyboard so at the press of a button the cue fired... The the audio was controlled from the dac 3 which left the mouse free for activating and running the video visuals and text... It did take a bit of juggling and the tech run through was a nightmare but on the main evening it went fine...

It could even have gone one further really and had 2 live cameras (one on each system) to display close ups and things on the screen as well as visuals but that would have been a tad over kill for the event.

Now i know that wasn't really a disco use of visuals but it does show that computerised systems are up for the job and does show you can run visuals (and lighting) while djing all by yourself and without a massive outlay - compared to a manual "hardware" based system BUT get the same results and WOW factor. It's hard work and if you have a willing roadie to help on the night then sharing the work is good but if not you can just about do it all by yourself.

[Larry B Entertainment]

Interesting thread and something i have often thought about doing, just the cost of the screens that has put me off a bit.

[DMX Will]

James,

It's all very well and good having backup systems and such, but computer systems arn't faultless - which is why I don't rely on one for DJing, Lights or Visuals. It is far easier to recover from a power outage say with hardware, than it is a computer. As in this example, we haven't got to wait for a boot up etc.

As for your "one-man-band" attempt at your talent contest, without wanting to be rude, I think it was foolish. Why? Well, what if someone tripped up over your projector....or somehow something, say a projector (as they don't tend to be near your control area) broke, fell off it's platform...whatever. You can't do anything about it until your next break....Ok, you can put up a few mic channels and jog round - but you won't be giving the performance your full attention.

Say your singer is singing, and this happens, you run off to pick up your projector, but whilst your doing this, the singer walks right in front of a speaker. Feedback, they don't know why! They think it's you, so don't do anything. You can't knock the level down on their mic because you're on the other side of the room. Not a good image!

No good having backup equipment....if you don't have backup people, or even staff that can help. I'd think about it a little harder next time.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

James,

It's all very well and good having backup systems and such, but computer systems arn't faultless

And although I applaud your sentiment with your backup gear, nor is electrical gear Will.

[jamesh]

Sorry will but have you ever heard of UPS??? All 3 machines are powered via back up UPS so even with a powercut they don't have to reboot... and as i say if one crashes i flick a switch to the other and carry on while it reboots... And when has any type of equipment been 100% reliable... with your kit do you carry a spare vision mixer, dvd player, preview screens etc.....??? if one goes down it all takes time to swap out and sort out...

I really am starting to think you have no idea what so ever about the "digital" technology on the market... You seem to have an ok grasp of the manual none computerised way of doing it and from your posts do a good job but there is allot of technology out there thesedays thats just as reliable as a manual... I don't know Perhaps your college didn't have any computerised systems or only tought via the manual hands on route hence you only knowing the anologue route - i really don't know only you can answer that one... Oh and that's not a bad thing and i really am not trying to put you down but all you arguments for none computerised way of doing this are just naff and with products and technology out there today they really don't stand up as a vaild argument at all.

As for the one man band event as you call it i only said it was all controlled by 1 person having wanted it controlled origionally by 2 i didn't say i didn't have anyone else there did i??? although in YOUR defence i didn't say i had anyone else around either.

To rig and de-rig there was 3 including myself. 1 had to go off to another function after the rig and came back once he'd done to help the de-rig... The other (a roadie i use allot) stayed with me but was based at the stage just incase of any stage side issues and to pass mics out to the singers etc....

Should anything have needed moving, changing or needing to be droped on the floor in the stage area he could have sorted it... Which left me to run the control side of things... Yes in an ideal world where client budgets and staff are no object it would have been great having 2 operators and 2 stage side but most of the DJs/techs/engineers i know weren't available due to one thing and another and the budget would have only stretched to another one person anyway... Sometimes with events you cant do everything or have everyone you want...

on another note from your post i'm not sure what functions you've been working on lately or how you put things in to practice but at the ones i do and am involved with all have safety as the main concern and i don't go leaving projectors, cables or anything else for that matter in places that can be tripped over. Yes things can go wrong but surly your risk assesment before the event has covered most eventualities?

May be once you've done a few more bigger functions off your own back or been part of a team using reliable computerised systems to their full you'll understand...

And again i'm not trying to get at you here and if that's how it comes across i really don't mean it to BUT some of the things you've said in here really do show a misunderstanding and almost phobia of technology... the rigs i use week in week out all involve computer systems and have never let me down.

And before you ask yes i do know the more manual way of doing it too... Since i was 8 i've been involved with theatre and media... Through school i did all the geeky teckie stuff - i went to the brit school performing arts and studied media and spent additional hours with the theatre staff learning more! before then going on to Ravensbourne to study TV broadcasting operations.... Then it's been freelance and slowly builing up my own buiness inbetween cruiseship contracts and mallorca contracts to now up to the present day of running my own business full time and doing the odd freelance job for other companies when they need it...

Anyway this is now pretty much off topic but back on toipic... Yes it can be done and is possible by many methods some harder than others but it's personal choice as to which method you use.