Consistant Sound Levels

[franczola]

Hi again.

I have problems with varying sound levels between Two tracks when fading from One into another.

Some tracks play loud and others quiet, even though I have the faders on both channels at the same level? Its very obvious when I have to raise a slider when a track is playing to match volumes.

I have no gain knobs on my mixer, so what is the best way to ensure that the volume of tracks are all consistant to ensure a smooth mix between Two tracks without manually adjusting the sliders, or master volume?

Franc'

[BeerFunk]

You'll find that older CDs will seem quieter, and newer CDs (particularly pop music) will be produced in such a way that it appears a lot louder.

Unless you rip everything to a hard drive, normalise it and go digital, there's no way round it other than to use your ear, and DJing skills ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yep, what Beerfunk says.

Once you get used to playing certain tracks, you'll know which need to be a bit higher etc.

[Thames Valley Discos]

just look at the gain on the mixer when cueing the track, then adjust its channel gain, thats what they are for

[spin mobile disco]

I used a programe called mp3 gain to match all my tunes to same level. Doesnt work for all tunes due to high highs and low lows but does help. If you mixer had split monitiring you can match volume using cue and master mix.

[rob1963]

Out of interest, does Audiograbber have a normalize feature?

and if so, how well does it work?

The levels on my CDs vary greatly, and I have my gain pots on my mixer all over the place!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Out of interest, does Audiograbber have a normalize feature?




Without looking Rob, I'm sure it does.

Have a looky in the options bit.

[rob1963]

Thanks Darren. I haven't downloaded it yet...maybe I'll do it in a minute

[Corabar Steve]

It does

[PropellerHeadCase]

Ultimately, unless you can cue both tracks pre-fader simultaneously and use channel/input gain to match them you'll always be doing it on the fly.

You need to have both tracks Pre-Fader Listen as the gain structure for PFL and programme are different and won't necessarily be representative of the comparative volumes, in-ear.

If you don't have input gains (which are, as the name suggests, pre-fader) there's not much you can do. If you have rotary EQs on the channel you can change the overall volume of the tracks by bringing the EQs up (and generally louder tracks will also have higher fidelity bass, so you're probably pushing the bass on some tracks already), but this isn't really good practice, just a fix. Then again, if you have rotary EQs you probably have input gain.

Upshot? Get a mixer with input gains, per channel, or live with it ;)


Oh, and normalizing software only works as well as the compression ratios on the tracks. Newer, louder-sounding tracks are more heavily compressed giving them a smaller dynamic range (difference between loudest and quietest sound) meaning that the average volume of the track is louder overall...

Try normalizing 'Bohemian Rhapsody' - there's a bit near the start where the bass guitar and bass drum hit together really hard and you can hear that it almost clips - that's likely to be the loudest single sound in the recording even though that section sounds quieter than the big head-banging guitar bit towards the end. Even normalized the intro vocals are really, really quiet. Had it been recorded more recently the intro vocals would be louder and the rest of the music would be more compressed to sound louder than the vocals without actually being louder.

Hooray for gain-riding!

[Penfold42]

Thanks Darren. I haven't downloaded it yet...maybe I'll do it in a minute

:eek: Slacker................:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[rob1963]

:eek: Slacker................:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Downloaded now...and the MP3 codec, and I've ripped my first CD to test it out!

All seems fine.

The digital revolution is one step closer!

:D :D :D

[Penfold42]

Downloaded now...and the MP3 codec, and I've ripped my first CD to test it out!

All seems fine.

The digital revolution is one step closer!

:D :D :D

:cool: .....very :cool:

[franczola]

just look at the gain on the mixer when cueing the track, then adjust its channel gain, thats what they are for

Thanks,

But not really sure what you mean?

I dont have gain switches on my mixer? I have PFL indicators that monitor the output in my headphones, but how do I ensure that what Im hearing in my headphones is matched volume-wise to the output of the current track playing through my speakers?

[Corabar Steve]

What mixer do you have?

[franczola]

Er..hold on I'll have a look........

KAM Audio Pro 500

[Corabar Steve]

I've just googled it & had a look at the manual. It looks very basic (no offence). I would say your best bet would be to buy a new mixer with gains on each channel

[franczola]

None taken.

Thanks for taking the time to look into it.

I'll look for a mixer with gains.

Thanks,

Franc'

[franczola]

Numark DM1002X any good?

I have one in the loft ive not used for years.

It has gains for each channel, but is it any good for basic mobile work with twin CD?

[Corabar Steve]

Good enough, I'd say. Although if it's the same as the one I just got off google it'll be abugger to flightcase with those knobs on the front.

[Corabar Steve]

What about something like this? http://www.djkit.co.uk/acatalog/Numark_CM100_Mixer.html

Does all the basics & is 19 inch mountable

[franczola]

Yes Thanks again!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Or the next one up (http://www.decks.co.uk/products/mixers/numark/cm200)with eq on each channel for vitually the same price

[Corabar Steve]

That's the one I was looking for. I think we have / had one at some point.

[DJWilson]

i cant really help you, sorry.

but with different recording studios etc.. the songs are sometimes louder then others.

[Excalibur]

I've just googled it & had a look at the manual. It looks very basic (no offence). I would say your best bet would be to buy a new mixer with gains on each channel

It IS very basic. The 1000 has what is required, I use the 1500, and like it . I fully admit there are better, the choice is very wide. I would suggest trying to have a play with one before you buy if poss. Are you near any other members perhaps?

[franczola]

Hi,

Ive come back to my original post for some more help on this please.

Im now using a Numark 10002X mixer, as it has gains on each channel, but how am i able to ensure that the volume of my headphone output will match the volume of the master output when my cued track is faded in?

At the moment I am waiting until a channel is faded up, before adjusting the gain control, but by then its too late, and its sounds rubbish, because the volume increases or decreases dramatically.

Do I need to get a mixer that has a seperate LED meter for headphone output, and use this as a comparison to the master output LED's to adjust levels to ensure that they are the same when faded in?

Hope it makes sense?

Thanks,
Franc'

[BeerFunk]

Hi,

Ive come back to my original post for some more help on this please.

Im now using a Numark 10002X mixer, as it has gains on each channel, but how am i able to ensure that the volume of my headphone output will match the volume of the master output when my cued track is faded in?

At the moment I am waiting until a channel is faded up, before adjusting the gain control, but by then its too late, and its sounds rubbish, because the volume increases or decreases dramatically.

Do I need to get a mixer that has a seperate LED meter for headphone output, and use this as a comparison to the master output LED's to adjust levels to ensure that they are the same when faded in?

Hope it makes sense?

Thanks,
Franc'
Just use your ear, it's one of the core skills required to DJ.

[nigelwright7557]

I have few problems with this but if one channel is low then simply turn it up a little !

It takes a little experience to judge the house front sound level.
I had a bad habit of keeping on turining it up to start with !

It can be a little decieving being behind the speakers as the sound level in front is considerably higher.

[franczola]

By the time I use my ear, its too late.

My ear will hear the difference in sound levels, at the same time as everyone else's, as they strain to hear what the incoming track is and I have to whack up the faders or master volume to rectify it.

It sounds bad and unprofessional.

[BeerFunk]

Most CDs are around the same volume level, but I always notice if a track is quieter or louder than the norm when I'm cueing it. If in doubt, bring it in lower than you think you need it to be, and adjust on the fly. I doubt anyone will notice in that split second.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Also, you get to know how loud or quiet tracks are after playing them time and again.

[Tom]

i have this problem all the time. on the laptop i preview the song on the headphones and match the voloume with the gain so i have a balanced sound all night with no louds bursts.

[Excalibur]

Also, you get to know how loud or quiet tracks are after playing them time and again.

Indeed, Dire Straits " Walk of Life" is a track which has to be played way higher on the meters to get the same levels as everything else. ( My copy anyway)

[BeerFunk]

'Quiet' CDs that spring to mind are the Drivetime compilations, Take That's greatest hits (strange one that, it was only released 10 years ago or something), and generally any old CDs from the late 80s or early 90s.

Also, I always find myself bumping up the gain for the intro to 'Erasure - A Little Respect' and 'Bill Medley/Jennifer Warnes - I've Had...' - but then when the main beats/bass come in I bring it back down in line.

I've never figured out why I have to do that, as the volume sounds OK when I play it back at home, or hear it on the radio.

[Excalibur]

'Quiet' CDs that spring to mind are the Drivetime compilations, Take That's greatest hits (strange one that, it was only released 10 years ago or something), and generally any old CDs from the late 80s or early 90s.

Also, I always find myself bumping up the gain for the intro to 'Erasure - A Little Respect' and 'Bill Medley/Jennifer Warnes - I've Had...' - but then when the main beats/bass come in I bring it back down in line.

I've never figured out why I have to do that, as the volume sounds OK when I play it back at home, or hear it on the radio.

Don't start me on Medley/Warnes! Oh for some heavy duty compression on that one!

[Danno13]

One thats always much louder for me is Whitney's I wanna dance with somebody... almost given people heart attacks with that before :D

(I cue it to the "Whooooaaaahhh...." part)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

One thats always much louder for me is Whitney's I wanna dance with somebody... almost given people heart attacks with that before :D

(I cue it to the "Whooooaaaahhh...." part)

Yep, me too and quite a few others I know too. ;)

[BrightLights]

I know some people don't like them, but how about using a compressor/limiter to help even out the sound levels? You'd need a decent multiband one to avoid bass pumping.

[dj-jaym]

i find using a compressor / limiter works a treat,

Dont you guys use them ?

[BrightLights]

i find using a compressor / limiter works a treat,

Dont you guys use them ?

I do.