CD Mixer or Laptop?

[davidmay229]

Hi Folks,

I just in the middle of deciding what equipment I am going to buy for my first xmas as a mobile DJ.

I was thinking about just using my laptop instead of buying a CD mixer, I have DJ software that I like to use.

Will it be possible just to hook the laptop up directly to the amp/speakers?

Thanks in advance for the advice

:-D

[BeerFunk]

Well, this has been covered extensively if you search the forums. Although it is possible to connect your laptop directly to your amp, I don't think many of us would recommend it. Even a cheapish mixer in between is a much better option, it allows you more control for one thing. Are you not going to use a mic?

[Sam]

CD Mixer!! Aided by a laptop or two if needed.

[BeerFunk]

I was thinking about just using my laptop instead of buying a CD mixer, I have DJ software that I like to use.
CD Mixer!! Aided by a laptop or two if needed.
Repeat after me...

Read, digest, post...
Read, digest, post...
Read, digest, post...
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

:eek:
:D

[Corabar Steve]

Repeat after me...

Read, digest, post...
Read, digest, post...
Read, digest, post...
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...

:eek:
:D

Look who's talking, the bloke that thought Joy Division could perform with a dead singer http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1763.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[Tom]

well they could..... just no vocals :confused:

[BeerFunk]

Look who's talking, the bloke that thought Joy Division could perform with a dead singer http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1763.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

well they could..... just no vocals :confused:
Exactly, thank you! Or someone else could sing, or whatever... it would only be a one-off :rolleyes:

[Tom]

for one night only with xxxxxx on vocals welcome(que lights) "JOY DIVISION" then followed by a big cheer and straight into a song.

[Tony Scott]

Hi Folks,

I just in the middle of deciding what equipment I am going to buy for my first xmas as a mobile DJ.

I was thinking about just using my laptop instead of buying a CD mixer, I have DJ software that I like to use.

Will it be possible just to hook the laptop up directly to the amp/speakers?

Thanks in advance for the advice

:-D

Laptop and one of these mixers if your on a budget. I got one as a back-up. have used it for an 8hr carnival set with no issues at all. Great for the money and very reliable.http://www.bluearan.co.uk/menu/index.php?id=BEHVMX100&product=Behringer_VMX100_Pro_DJ_Mixer&browsemode=manufacturer

If money is no problem then go for a better mixer............but definately go for a mixer/laptop set-up IMHO! :)

[DJ James Lake]

Mixer and Laptop, with CD decks as backup. CD decks also come in handy at the beginning of a gig if you have to setup in a hurry CD Decks can provide instant sound. The laptop will take a while to bootup, let alone setup.

Keep a small set up various genres of music mixes on cd in case of laptop crashes and also in case you need to go to the loo mid gig

[Tony Scott]

Mixer and Laptop, with CD decks as backup. CD decks also come in handy at the beginning of a gig if you have to setup in a hurry CD Decks can provide instant sound. The laptop will take a while to bootup, let alone setup.

Keep a small set up various genres of music mixes on cd in case of laptop crashes and also in case you need to go to the loo mid gig

Wise words & good advice!

Laptops don't crash do they? :rolleyes: :D

[DJ James Lake]

Laptops don't crash do they? :rolleyes: :D

Only if you let them drive :D

[BrightLights]

Well, this has been covered extensively if you search the forums. Although it is possible to connect your laptop directly to your amp, I don't think many of us would recommend it. Even a cheapish mixer in between is a much better option, it allows you more control for one thing. Are you not going to use a mic?

I often don't bother with a mixer, although I always attach the laptops via at least a stereo switcher so I can switch from one to the other easily if the main one has a problem.

I don't see why a mixer is a necessity as long as you've got a decent (probably external) soundcard.

[Vectis]

For smaller rigs I just run a laptop with OTS DJ with a Mic connected as 'Live Input' and I use the built-in EQ and dynamics processor to get the perfect sound.

There's a backup laptop in the bag and all music is on external USB-powered HDDs. So worst case scenario is a minute or so of downtime whilst I swap lappies.

If I've got my lighting lappy running then it's even less downtime.

But then it's not happened to me in about 3 years of running OTS. It's rock solid.

[BrightLights]

I always keep a second laptop running as a backup, even if it's just my very old Thinkpad running WinAmp - it's enough to keep things going for a few minutes while I fix any problems, or boot up another, better laptop that can run "proper" DJ software.

I think the most downtime I've ever had was about 10 seconds, and that was my own fault, not the laptop's. In fact every time I've had a problem (and they're very few and far between) it's been because I did something stupid rather than an actual problem with the computers. Generally I find they're extremely reliable.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I often don't bother with a mixer, although I always attach the laptops via at least a stereo switcher so I can switch from one to the other easily if the main one has a problem.

I don't see why a mixer is a necessity as long as you've got a decent (probably external) soundcard.

How do you mix songs, control the volume, eq separate channels and adjust the mic then? :confused:

[Vectis]

How do you mix songs, control the volume, eq separate channels and adjust the mic then? :confused:

Can do all this in OTS.

Mic is 'input source' and can be EQ'd; mixing of songs can be manual or auto or a bit of both; volume (and tempo/pitch) control via master 'sliders' on screen (or keyboard shortcuts) and a really good dynamics processor normalises everything. Headphones/cue can be run to a second soundcard.

Not sure about other software as I don't use it.

As I said, only use this on small rigs / kids parties type stuff. Anything bigger or better paying gets the full range of hardware.

[BrightLights]

How do you mix songs, control the volume, eq separate channels and adjust the mic then? :confused:

All done digitally in the software, apart from the mic which has an input level control on the soundcard. I sometimes use an external MIDI controller for track volume, EQ, etc, which isn't strictly necessary but does make it easier to adjust multiple things simultaneously.

I can't think of anything that an external analogue mixer could do that can't be done in software to be honest...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

All done digitally in the software, apart from the mic which has an input level control on the soundcard. I sometimes use an external MIDI controller for track volume, EQ, etc, which isn't strictly necessary but does make it easier to adjust multiple things simultaneously.

I can't think of anything that an external analogue mixer could do that can't be done in software to be honest...

EQing the mic?

How do you phyically fade or mix tracks in and out? By using a mouse? :confused:

Also, what about backup?

What happens if the PC crashes, where are you going to plug a line into?

[Have a disco]

Mixer and Laptop, with CD decks as backup. CD decks also come in handy at the beginning of a gig if you have to setup in a hurry CD Decks can provide instant sound. The laptop will take a while to bootup, let alone setup.

Keep a small set up various genres of music mixes on cd in case of laptop crashes and also in case you need to go to the loo mid gig


I agree to a degree I would suggest CD decks to start with then a laptop with a good external sound card and whatever your going to use to play the music PC DJ seems the fav, but both should be able to go through a good mixer that could also handle karaoke's with extra lines for microphones. But I would prefer sticking to CD's throughout the night

I would always take a good quality of cd's with me but they also would be backed up onto the laptop just incase (You will need a Digital DJ licence when they finally get there act sorted out??? all parties that is) and use the laptop as back-up til you feel comfortable using the laptop then reverse the trend so the cd players are used as back up

[Vectis]

EQing the mic?

Yep. It's treated as a line in.




How do you phyically fade or mix tracks in and out? By using a mouse? :confused:

Yep. Or keyboard shortcuts. Prefer the mouse (actually nipple) myself.




Also, what about backup?

Software installed on lighting laptop, music on external HDDs. Also have a third laptop on hand. And forsaking everything else, a cheapo 2GB mp3 player loaded with a few mixes.




What happens if the PC crashes, where are you going to plug a line into?

See above.

Never had a crash or indeed a computer-induced glitch in 3 years. Finger trouble, yes, but you'd expect that anyway ;) :D

[BrightLights]

EQing the mic?

How do you phyically fade or mix tracks in and out? By using a mouse? :confused:

Also, what about backup?

What happens if the PC crashes, where are you going to plug a line into?

Personally I don't EQ the mic, but it can be done. See VectisVibe's post above.

Crossfading can be done using the mouse, keyboard shortcuts, or an external controller (which behaves exactly like the crossfader on a mixer). Depending which software I'm using (Virtual DJ or Mixmeister Fusion) this is more or less relevant. In Fusion mixes/crossfades are set up and previewed ahead of time so a physical crossfader doesn't actually make sense - you'd need to try it to see what I mean!

Backup has been discussed earlier in this thread - I'm well covered.


Never had a crash or indeed a computer-induced glitch in 3 years. Finger trouble, yes, but you'd expect that anyway ;) :D

Absolutely, and you'd have the same potential for finger trouble with CDs, vinyl, or anything else.

Looks like we're on the same wavelength here!

[BeerFunk]

Each to his own, but I prefer the precise control you get with a mixer, regardless of what you're using for playout. And why ould you connect an external MIDI controller to control volumes etc, when a hardware mixer will do that for you? Seems a bit like you are trying to do everything by computer for the sake of it, but as I said, each to his own :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Each to his own, but I prefer the precise control you get with a mixer, regardless of what you're using for playout.

Me too. I'm not sure I could cope with a mouse or nipple :eek: to mix tracks properly. I used to use the keyboard short cuts when doing music quizzes, but even that wasn't accurate or quick enough for me.

I can't understand not having the facility to eq a mic either.

[BrightLights]

Each to his own, but I prefer the precise control you get with a mixer, regardless of what you're using for playout. And why ould you connect an external MIDI controller to control volumes etc, when a hardware mixer will do that for you? Seems a bit like you are trying to do everything by computer for the sake of it, but as I said, each to his own :)

Of course - I'm just saying what I do, but we're all different and what's right for one person isn't going to be right for everyone.

I like doing everything on the computer because it means I've got everything I need in one place without having to plug various bits of hardware together first. Adding the external controllers is purely optional - I can mix with or without them, so I've got the flexibility to choose. There's nothing imprecise about the control you get with a software solution.

Anyway I could turn your question round and ask why use an analogue mixer when a MIDI controller will do it all for you? It just depends on your point of view... Plus by using a MIDI controller you can have more functionality than a mixer would give, such as jog wheels and transport controls for both decks (admittedly you'd get that anyway with CD players but I'm just thinking laptops here).

But as you say, each to their own...


Me too. I'm not sure I could cope with a mouse or nipple :eek: to mix tracks properly. I used to use the keyboard short cuts when doing music quizzes, but even that wasn't accurate or quick enough for me.

I can't understand not having the facility to eq a mic either.

I'm with you on that, which I why I often use a MIDI controller (although you do get used to the mouse thing, but it's not as good as a real physical control).

We've already covered the mic EQ question - it IS possible.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm with you on that, which I why I often use a MIDI controller (although you do get used to the mouse thing, but it's not as good as a real physical control).

We've already covered the mic EQ question - it IS possible.

I know that, it's just that you said you don't do it. The mic is very important to me.

[BrightLights]

I know that, it's just that you said you don't do it. The mic is very important to me.

Me choosing not to is different from there not being a facility to do so.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Me choosing not to is different from there not being a facility to do so.

Yes, I understand that, it's just for me eqing the mic for different venues is very important IMO.

[BrightLights]

Yes, I understand that, it's just for me eqing the mic for different venues is very important IMO.

Oh well OK. Maybe it's something I should look into doing, but I normally just EQ the overall output for the venue and find that works (talking about the main mix output here, not individual track EQ controls).

[DJ James Lake]

Anyway I could turn your question round and ask why use an analogue mixer when a MIDI controller will do it all for you?

Its all down to a little thing called latency. No midi controller in the world is as fast or precise as a proper mixer and midi controllers can and do crash from time to time, however cheap or expensive. I have an Allen & Heath Xone 3d approx £1400 and its midi controls have crashed mid gig, with luck the 3d is also a proper mixer so I could carry on without interuption but if yours is not what do you do?

[BrightLights]

Its all down to a little thing called latency. No midi controller in the world is as fast or precise as a proper mixer and midi controllers can and do crash from time to time, however cheap or expensive. I have an Allen & Heath Xone 3d approx £1400 and its midi controls have crashed mid gig, with luck the 3d is also a proper mixer so I could carry on without interuption but if yours is not what do you do?

I know about latency, and of course you're right that a MIDI controller and soundcard will introduce a certain amount of it, but when set up properly it should be possible to reduce it so far that it's unnoticeable. Although I don't, it's perfectly possible to scratch with a controller where any noticeable latency would really screw it up. I doubt digital scratching is really as good as vinyls, mind you...

Latency isn't only an issue with MIDI though - any digital system (e.g. CD player) could suffer the same issue and it's up to the manufacturer to minimise it in both cases, CD or MIDI. Have you actually experienced noticeable latency using a MIDI controller?

If my controller was to die mid-gig it would be unlikely to affect the performance at all, since I use a separate soundcard (i.e. not built into the controller). In fact I can plug controllers in and out on the fly without interrupting the music (but I don't!)

[Dillmiester]

Ive not long discarded my mixer with my set up. All it was doing was providing master levels and mic in put.
I use a Hercules DJ controller (and before you all gasp) I know its more of a toy than anything else but its only used as a twin sound card. As it has a mic input and level controls I decided why have a mixer in line as well. When i find a good argument for replacing the DJ console I may do but for now it does the job very well.

[DJ James Lake]

Have you actually experienced noticeable latency using a MIDI controller?

Yes big time with a M-Audio X-Session, Behringer BCD 2000 and a Vestax VCI-100.

The only setup I dont get noticeable latency issues with is with the Allen & Heath Xone 3d, Traktor Scratch and Denon 3500 cd players or Technics SL120s.


I doubt digital scratching is really as good as vinyls, mind you...

Yes it is with the right hardware and software.


Another problem with midi mixers is what happens if someone at a gig brings you a cd to play (this happens a lot at private functions).

I and others are not trying to be negative, if it works for you go for it, but there will come a time when you will find you need a proper mixer and a backup device. I've been doing this for 25 years and have gone from vinyl to cd to laptop, all systems have advantages and disadvantages, but one thing I have learnt is as much good that laptops do, they can also cause big problems without any backup.

Heres another scenario for you to consider, you come to a venue and it has a sound limiter, you trip it and lose power. Or a kid decides your plug in the wall looks interesting and flicks the switch ok your laptop may stay on (if the battery is good) what about your hard drives, lucky (they survive the interuption in power and you wait while the computer recognises them again. Unlucky (messed up drives no music for the rest of the gig).

Golden rules: Assume nothing is flawless, always have a backup plan. It only takes one ruined gig to ruin your reputation.

Experience counts - learn from the mistakes others have made before you and dont make the same.

[BrightLights]

Hi James,

To address your points:


Another problem with midi mixers is what happens if someone at a gig brings you a cd to play (this happens a lot at private functions).

When this happens (which as you say is a lot), then I play it - VDJ can play direct from CD just the same as it plays from files.


I and others are not trying to be negative
Not taken as such, I'm just answering the points that you and others are raising.


there will come a time when you will find you need a proper mixer and a backup device.
The backup issue has already addressed more than once in this thread. I always have backup devices with me and ready to go at a moment's notice. The lack of a mixer doesn't preclude switching quickly from one to another - see earlier in this thread.

I'm not saying there's no place for a proper mixer - of course there is, I was just pointing out that it's possible to work perfectly well without one, as I do most (but not all) of the time.


I've been doing this for 25 years and have gone from vinyl to cd to laptop
I'm not calling into question your level of experience. Well done.


all systems have advantages and disadvantages
Absolutely, as I alluded to earlier.


but one thing I have learnt is as much good that laptops do, they can also cause big problems without any backup.
Already addressed. I always have more than adequate backup.


Heres another scenario for you to consider, you come to a venue and it has a sound limiter, you trip it and lose power. Or a kid decides your plug in the wall looks interesting and flicks the switch ok your laptop may stay on (if the battery is good) what about your hard drives
I've been in this situation more than once. The drive in my main laptop will survive because I store the music on the built-in one for this very reason (and for the convenience of having the music always available). The drive on my normal backup laptop will survive because it's USB powered for this exact reason - the laptop's battery will keep it running. The drive on my third laptop will survive because it's built in, albeit a bit on the small side but it's enough to get by for a while if necessary.


lucky (they survive the interuption in power and you wait while the computer recognises them again.
No luck involved. It's by design that the laptops won't even lose sight of the disks, in fact they'll keep on playing while the power's off and carry on as normal when it's restored.


Unlucky (messed up drives no music for the rest of the gig).
OK, a power surge or spike could cause a problem, but the same power surge or spike could also damage a CD player, turntable, whatever. I always run my equipment through surge protectors, and I even have a small UPS but I've stopped bothering with it.


Golden rules: Assume nothing is flawless, always have a backup plan. It only takes one ruined gig to ruin your reputation.
Agreed.


Experience counts - learn from the mistakes others have made before you and dont make the same.
Also agreed. I do exactly that, which is why I've got all the above mentioned safe guards in place.

As I said earlier, I'm not advocating that anyone else do as I do. The laptop solution makes sense for me, but obviously it wouldn't be the right choice for everyone. I'm just explaining what I do and how I do it in the interest of sharing information. Surely we can agree that that's what this forum is for?

[djsteve10]

Ok here are my views on not using a mixer,

using the mouse and the keyboard all the time can make you feel like you aint dj'in properly too.

Also without a mixer what are you going to do if you need to plug a singer or another mic into the pa for that matter of fact? I work with singers quite alot and it has all been arranged for them to plug into my system and i engineer it from the desk.

The other problem is using the mouse to control the faders isnt as accurate as faders on a mixer and i would find it hard to bring the volume down to talk and raise it back up with the mouse all seems abit like too much hard work for me.

[BrightLights]

Also without a mixer what are you going to do if you need to plug a singer or another mic into the pa for that matter of fact? I work with singers quite alot and it has all been arranged for them to plug into my system and i engineer it from the desk.

Yes, so that's an obvious case where using a mixer makes perfect sense. Nobody's suggesting we should do away with them altogether!


The other problem is using the mouse to control the faders isnt as accurate as faders on a mixer and i would find it hard to bring the volume down to talk and raise it back up with the mouse all seems abit like too much hard work for me.

Indeed, hence the use of external controllers.