New DJ's

[mr rusty]

:devil: With my Devil's Advocate hat on, I just read this in another thread


This is the time of year when the dj shops make most money... "hey ive spent 500 on some speakers, mixer, cd player and a few lights, im gonna go be a dj"

The next thing you know is they are undercutting everybody, getting the work and then they don't have a clue when it comes to doing the job

Question is, "is this wrong"? Two points:- everybody has to start somewhere, and surely it would be wronger (!!) if a new DJ was able to go out and get the *same* money as an experienced DJ.

I think this is just the market at work: you either get bookings because you are good/experienced/recommended *or* because you are cheap.

Discuss

[Dragonfly]

ok question ......

"ive just got a job as a cleaner ..... i've never swept a floor before in my life shall i tell my employer to only pay me half wages until ive done it a few times and am a bit more experienced?"

why should a dj say they are new to the job ..... if they can do it they can do it just like people dont go to job interviews and say hi im john and im gay , black etc etc.

the pay thing i think is usually confidence related and not capability related imo. so more people just need to be encouraged to believe in themselves.

[spin mobile disco]

People pay more in the knowledge that a pro will turn up, do a good job, have equipment suitable for the gig.
Unfortunatly some of the new DJ's have had no or little practice or apprenticship. I was apprenticed for 6 years as a DJ and when I went solo nervous as I was I was able to to do the job and deal with people.
I think the answer would be if you are a brand new DJ with no experience you should roadie yourself to a DJ for at least 6 months to get a feel for it before starting out on your own.
If you have been getting experience with another DJ or privately through family functions or for friends etc then yes you can charge less in order to build up a reputation and gain more experience.
If you are cheap you will get bookings , but if you are inexperienced you will not get repeat bookings from clients. And would a cheaper disco have very good equipment. Quality of build aside , what about faults. Far more likely to happen in cheaper equipment than pro equipment. And then cheaper lighting tends to blow bulbs more and this means more outlay in the end.

An interesting question to ask and I hope others will put their opinions on this as well.

[Larry B Entertainment]

I had never spun a record in my life until i did my first outside gig at a wedding party. I enjoyed it so much and got such a buzz i decided to carry on doing it. My cd collection was a bit limited in those days and i borrowed some gear from a mate of the time but never the less i managed a good performance. Everyone needs a start somewhere and its very much like the music industry, you dont need to be the best to get somewhere and theres nothing stopping these lads buying the gear and going for it, its about how you handle the situation and how proffessional you come across. I know its not always fair that people doing it years might be earning the same as a lad thats just had a lucky break but it happens. I look at dj tiesto, his mixing is terrible sometimes and completely out of sync but it hasnt stopped him being voted Best dj in the world 3 years on the trot, its just how it is.

And this must be my longest ever post on MDD.

[PropellerHeadCase]

If people are motivated purely by price, then yes, you will lose work if you charge at a level that is in keeping with greater experience, and if you are desperate for work it can be devestating losing work to people who are charging at a level that would see you broke inside a year, but that's true in any business.

One of the reasons I decided to go out on my own was that the company I work for constantly drop their prices to get the work which is fine if you need the cash (and I do), but if you want to be able to put the effort in and do a good job you need the money to justify the time spent - I'd far rather work that way (and I increasingly am). I'd far rather get a reputation for being a good DJ with excellent customer-service skills, attention to detail and un-parallelled musical knowledge than as a reasonably priced DJ.

I think I'd rather be undercut by a newbie than having newbies charging at the same rate as me and giving DJs in my price bracket a bad name (I already have to fight the bad PR that DJs get, in general, would prefer not to have to fight that battle on two fronts).

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think people buy experience and know how and atre convinced if you sell your service in the correct way.

Personally, for new DJs, I have always advised starting off fairly cheaply and putting prices up as you get better at the job and gain more experience.

When you start, it's better to give people good value than to charge what others tell you to charge, as if you don't do a great job, then people can't complain.

The trouble is these days, is that people want to make a quick buck, they want a quick fix. With the price of gear being so cheap nowadays, everyone can be a DJ and that's the problem. Plan ahead and look at the long term plan. Start slowly, learn and progress and in time start to put your prices up to what you think you are worth and what you think you should be charging, not what others think you should be charging.

There's a market for beginners, cheaper DJs, experienced and more expensive DJs. I've been in every catergory and have charged accordingly.

[djgordyp]

ok question ......

"ive just got a job as a cleaner ..... i've never swept a floor before in my life shall i tell my employer to only pay me half wages until ive done it a few times and am a bit more experienced?"

why should a dj say they are new to the job ..... if they can do it they can do it just like people dont go to job interviews and say hi im john and im gay , black etc etc.

the pay thing i think is usually confidence related and not capability related imo. so more people just need to be encouraged to believe in themselves.
I hardly think you can compare cleaner to a dj. A cleaner isn't employed to entertain people. If you want to see it that way. dave goes out with his kareoke machine and elvis backing tracks and charges £300. John is an elvis imersonator and has a 4 piece band and charges £500. Which would you rather have?
Haveing said that. Everyone has to start somwhere and in a couple of years time Dave would be able to start is own band just like every dj will eventually build their own rig/cd collection.

[Penfold42]

What a question......i'll try and be sensible....:)


Question is, "is this wrong"? Two points:- everybody has to start somewhere, and surely it would be wronger (!!) if a new DJ was able to go out and get the *same* money as an experienced DJ.
As a 'new DJ' on my own is it wrong to charge someone the same price as someone else with experience.....no! (i'm doing the same job and trying to get experience)
But i don't know if i am....why....because i don't check on what other people are doing....
Why don't i because..... i don't really care....but i can give the same level of service other DJ's in my area give.
How do i know that....feedback from customers and by talking to them.



I think this is just the market at work: you either get bookings because you are good/experienced/recommended *or* because you are cheap.

Discuss

I'm not cheap but i'm not the most exspensive.....again feedback from customers....
I'm in the middle.
I don't do cheap because i don't want my gear trashed.....
Am i good....yes i think so.....(don't mean to sound beheaded at that either)Am i experienced........no......but i can DJ and show people a good time!

And most of all.......i'm open, fun, easy to get on with, have a personality......and can entertain!

Hope that answer's your questions :)

[mr rusty]

This subject does make you think. One of the reasons for asking the question is that my son *is* a newbie DJ, and trying to decide how to pitch the price isn't easy. He could easily be accused of taking business from established DJ's by undercutting them, but we both honestly feel for the package/experience offered that the price he charges is appropriate.

Thanks for the replies!!

[Dragonfly]

In fainess i have always tried to price myself in the middle.

[Penfold42]

In fainess i have always tried to price myself in the middle.

What's fainess....:confused: :D

[Corabar Steve]

Where Dave goes when he prices himself in the middle :sj:

[Tom]

i dont think anyone who spends £500 or around can call them self a "DJ".

The way i see it is that if you can entertain people with your music and keep the dance floor moving all night, if not most of the night then that is a real dj. You need to gain experaince and learn about the trade before you can call your self anything.

So if i change a bulb or the brake pads on a car does this then make me a mechanic. I dont think so.

Anyone who wants to become a dj, what ever there age should go out and train to become a dj. Go out and roadie for a local DJ (free of charge) and learn what they are doing. Thats what i did and im still leaning new tips and tricks.

[Corabar Steve]

i dont think anyone who spends £500 or around can call them self a "DJ". This somewhat contradicts the following.


The way i see it is that if you can entertain people with your music and keep the dance floor moving all night, if not most of the night then that is a real dj. You need to gain experaince and learn about the trade before you can call your self anything.



If you can do that, & you only spend £500 on kit, are you a DJ or not?

[Tom]

well as you have put it like that then i guess you are a dj if you have the experaince but why would you spend £500 if you know what to do??? and still charge £60 for example. Dont add up some how.

[Corabar Steve]

Not everyone can afford top end equipment & most will start low until they feel they are ready to charge more, ie when they've gained more experience. (of course there are also those who will still charge £60 -80 just to get the jobs & then drop them when something better comes along).

Some people are naturals, others need to work at it, while others need the confidence to know they're good ( this comes with more experience).

[Dragonfly]

Not everyone can afford top end equipment & most will start low until they feel they are ready to charge more, ie when they've gained more experience. (of course there are also those who will still charge £60 -80 just to get the jobs & then drop them when something better comes along).

Some people are naturals, others need to work at it, while others need the confidence to know they're good ( this comes with more experience).

very good post indeed :beer1:

and another point of reference ..... say a dj with top end equipment agrees to cover a gig for a friend and its a walk in..... he gets there and he recognises the gear as very inexpensive ...... does he/she instantly become a bad dj for that night ..... noooooooo as said i think .... a good dj should be able to rock or try to rock the place whatever the situation.

[Tom]

(of course there are also those who will still charge £60 -80 just to get the jobs & then drop them when something better comes along).


:eek: anyone who books with me is paying for my services. i could never let a client down. you never know who could turn up and give you that big break.

[Penfold42]

:eek: anyone who books with me is paying for my services. i could never let a client down.

That's part of being a pro DJ.......:)

[Corabar Steve]

Indeed.


I've just had a thought, the only DJ kit I actually own myself is an ancient Martin Rainbow, a WildTech Cubist & a Gemini mixer. I've been DJing for 17/18 years (quite a lot of experience). Can I call myself a DJ?

[Tom]

:rolleyes:

[Penfold42]

I would say yes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_disc_jockey)....

[rob1963]

you either get bookings because you are good/experienced/recommended *or* because you are cheap.

...or because you have a professional looking website and lots of online advertising with links to that website.

That's how I get the majority of MY bookings.

[Dillmiester]

I started out at the age of 9 working for my parents hotel playing some tunes for the school coach parties. I only had a rope light and some flashing spots but the dance floor was packed and all had a good time.
I guess my point is that its not all about the best equipment, lights and rib cracking bass. Its about the music and knowing what people want. Most people dont care about what speakers are being used (as long as its not painfull) and care less about the lights.
I moved on to providing discos for my school (using their theatre equipment).
I then started DJ'ing for a local ice rink at the weekends (when i was 14).
Years have passed since and its only now that im working my way to what I would call a professional set up.
I dont price myself higher (yet) as although I have 20 years experience I havent been djing on a regular basis for a long time, so when I feel im ready i will drop the £100 gigs and set the price at a rate simular to local established Discos.

[PropellerHeadCase]

I would say yes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_disc_jockey)....

That's quite well written, actually.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Indeed.


I've just had a thought, the only DJ kit I actually own myself is an ancient Martin Rainbow, a WildTech Cubist & a Gemini mixer. I've been DJing for 17/18 years (quite a lot of experience). Can I call myself a DJ?

No. :boxer2: :D

[rob1963]

Not everyone can afford top end equipment & most will start low

Apart from that, not everyone WANTS top end equipment!

I dont, even after 23 years...simply because It's not a requirement.

Most people here have agreed that it's not about equipment, and that clients won't know or even care whether you have the most expensive & up to date gear or not.

I know there are equipment junkies out there, and they have top of the range equipment for THEMSELVES rather than the clients...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm just not one of those people, and it's never done me any harm.

[Corabar Steve]

No. :boxer2: :D

http://planetsmilies.net/violent-smiley-1531.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[spin mobile disco]

Indeed.


I've just had a thought, the only DJ kit I actually own myself is an ancient Martin Rainbow, a WildTech Cubist & a Gemini mixer. I've been DJing for 17/18 years (quite a lot of experience). Can I call myself a DJ?

Well according to you , you have no playout system there so nope probably not lol. If you had headphones at least you could have claimed bedroom DJ.
:DJ:

[Corabar Steve]

Well according to you , you have no playout system there so nope probably not lol. If you had headphones at least you could have claimed bedroom DJ.
:DJ:

Not that I personally own, no.

You fell into my trap, the rig I use is company owned & not by me personally.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Not that I personally own, no.

You fell into my trap, the rig I use is company owned & not by me personally.

In that case, I own nothing. :(

[Penfold42]

In that case, I own nothing. :(

Really.........experience......you can take that anywhere...:)

[spin mobile disco]

Don't you own your music?

[Corabar Steve]

Yes.

[Penfold42]

That's quite well written, actually.

That's what i thought.........


Today, a large selection of music, professional-grade equipment, good organizational skills, vocal talent as an MC, mixing skills, quality lighting, insurance for liability, and on-site back-up equipment are all essential customer expectations when purchasing Mobile DJ services.

[Corabar Entertainment]

In that case, I own nothing. :(...But you own the Company and therefore, vicariously own everything. Steve doesn't own the company, I do, and he (and the other DJs) is just another employee ;)

Therefore, I probably own more kit that most of you on here..... but I would never call myself a DJ

[Dragonfly]

...But you own the Company and therefore, vicariously own everything. Steve doesn't own the company, I do, and he (and the other DJs) is just another employee ;)

Therefore, I probably own more kit that most of you on here..... but I would never call myself a DJ

it's ok i've looked up what vacariously means :D :D :beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Therefore, I probably own more kit that most of you on here.....

Ooooh, you were nearly willy waving there....without a willy...:eek: :D

[rob1963]

...and we all know that it's NOT about equipment!

[Corabar Entertainment]

Ooooh, you were nearly willy waving there....without a willy...:eek: :D:lol:

...Didn't say it was GOOD equipment, did I? :p

[Penfold42]

:lol:

...Didn't say it was GOOD equipment, did I? :p

....or PAT tested......:quiet: :quiet: :quiet:

[Corabar Steve]

...But you own the Company and therefore, vicariously own everything. Steve doesn't own the company, I do, and he (and the other DJs) is just another employee ;)

Therefore, I probably own more kit that most of you on here..... but I would never call myself a DJBut you have been Known to & there have been good reports, so I would


....or PAT tested......:quiet: :quiet: :quiet:oh, all of it mate, all of it http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1819.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[Penfold42]

But you have been Known to & there have been good reports, so I would
:clap: :thumbsup:


oh, all of it mate, all of it http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1819.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

:eek: ......how long??

[theoloyla]

Returning to thread. Most new businesses (as opposed to workers) have cheap introductory offers to establish themselves.

[Corabar Steve]

:eek: ......how long??

2 1/2 days last time & we've got more kit since then. I've implemented a rolling test schedule, a few pieces a day & just keep going. (a bit like painting that bridge up north :sj:)

[djsteve10]

2 1/2 days last time & we've got more kit since then. I've implemented a rolling test schedule, a few pieces a day & just keep going. (a bit like painting that bridge up north :sj:)

Did you not see that program on BBC1 a few months ago about the bridge, they have finished painting it and that it won't need another coat for at least 20 years ... so in one sense buying gear can go on and on but only if you have the work for it, whats the use buying more and more if you have not work for it

[Corabar Entertainment]

whats the use buying more and more if you have not work for itI can promise you, we have got the work for it all!

[Corabar Steve]

Did you not see that program on BBC1 a few months ago about the bridge, they have finished painting it and that it won't need another coat for at least 20 years ... so in one sense buying gear can go on and on but only if you have the work for it, whats the use buying more and more if you have not work for it
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say there (looks like it's trying to be a slight dig at us), but as Angela pointed out, we do most definitely have the work for the number of rigs we have.

[nigelwright7557]

Experience doesnt always make a good DJ.

I know one locally who still plays what he likes to hear !

[Corabar Entertainment]

...but would you not agree that almost all DJs pick up a thing or two and improve with experience?

[nigelwright7557]

Some improve with time others dont.

I know one who sings along to all the tracks but he cant sing !
I go to a disco to hear music not the DJ singing.

I know another who talks far too much.
Again I go to a disco to hear music not some idiot waffling all night.

I know anotehr who plays far too many jingles.
Again I go to a disco to hear music not some idiot waffling all night.

I am sure everyone thinks they are a great DJ in their own mind !

[Corabar Entertainment]

but again, I repeat,
...but would you not agree that almost all DJs pick up a thing or two and improve with experience?After all, you don't know what the DJs you speak of were like when they started out. They may not be to your taste, but that doesn't mean to say that they have not improved from when they started.


Some improve with time others dont.

I know one who sings along to all the tracks but he cant sing !
I go to a disco to hear music not the DJ singing.

I know another who talks far too much.
Again I go to a disco to hear music not some idiot waffling all night.

I know anotehr who plays far too many jingles.
Again I go to a disco to hear music not some idiot waffling all night.

I am sure everyone thinks they are a great DJ in their own mind !Don't you think that is rather disrespectful to the DJs you are talking about :whistle:

[rob1963]

:claphands:

[nigelwright7557]

But the DJ's arent paying me to work for them !

[rob1963]

I am sure everyone thinks they are a great DJ in their own mind !

To be honest, I don't.

Good? Yes.

Great? No.

[nigelwright7557]

For me the measure of how well I did was if everyone had a really good time.

The worst gig I did was about 30 years ago when not single person danced all night. There were 4 DJ's and none of us could get them up.
It was a kids youth club and they just sat around the sides all night.
We tried every type of music with the lights on and off.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Was that after you saw me work Rob? :lol:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

For me the measure of how well I did was if everyone had a really good time.

The worst gig I did was about 30 years ago when not single person danced all night. There were 4 DJ's and none of us could get them up.
It was a kids youth club and they just sat around the sides all night.
We tried every type of music with the lights on and off.

Worse gig from the DJs point of view or from the punters?

I've had gigs where people haven't danced but then come over at the end and said how much they enjoyed the music.

[nigelwright7557]

No one came up afterwards and said anything !
I guess they were just shy kids and too shy to dance.

After 32 years DJing I know what people like in my area.

[rob1963]

Was that after you saw me work Rob? :lol:

Indeed it was, Darren.

Watching the master at work gave my ego a serious dent!

:p

[nigelwright7557]

Some DJ's seem to be in two minds.
1/ What they want to do.
2/ What they think the punters want to hear and see.

The man who taught me was very outgoing but could upset people at times.

He once stopped the disco and said he wasnt going to continue until a certain woman got up to dance !
He waited for 15 minutes and she still didnt get up.
He tried lifting her up !!!!

There is a line you dont cross and he went a mile over it.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No one came up afterwards and said anything !
I guess they were just shy kids and too shy to dance.

After 32 years DJing I know what people like in my area.

So you assume that every gig where people don't dance is rubbish and people haven't enjoyed themselves?

And what has your area got to do with it?

I've been DJing a fair few years here, but people are diverse and like different things.

[Corabar Entertainment]

But the DJ's arent paying me to work for them !So it's down to money? If someone's paying you then you respect them, if they're not paying you, then you don't respect them. Hmmm Interesting viewpoint.
No one came up afterwards and said anything !
I guess they were just shy kids and too shy to dance.

After 32 years DJing I know what people like in my area.:confused: :confused: So do you get the same people over and over at different gigs?

[mb3]

Experience doesnt always make a good DJ.

I know one locally who still plays what he likes to hear !


Add me. I play what I like to hear. I get my bookings from people who have seen me working... so they obviously like what I like. That's my style.

You wouldn't really ask an Ibiza club DJ to do a "Northern Soul" allnighter, would you??

It's even on my booking form... Please note that we play music mainly from the 60s, 70s and 80s. Please do not book us if you require modern "rave", "rap" and "house" music

[Corabar Steve]

Experience doesnt always make a good DJ.

I know one locally who still plays what he likes to hear !Experience doesn't always make you right either


I've had gigs where people haven't danced but then come over at the end and said how much they enjoyed the music.

Sounds like my gig on Friday

[nigelwright7557]

Experence makes me more often right than a novice !

You will find qualifications make a big difference too !
If not on here, certainly in the eyes of the law.

[Corabar Steve]

So you're assuming nobody else on here has qualifications or experience then?

[nigelwright7557]

Not in the slightest, I dont anyone on here !

[PropellerHeadCase]

What few "qualifications" that exist for DJs, to my knowledge, don't mean squat until the theory is put into practice.

My opinion, of course:

6 months playing 2-3 nights a week (or more), with an open mind and other, more experienced people to talk to is worth more than any course. DJing is more about psycho-social intelligence than musical knowledge - it's not what you play so much as when you play it.

I don't think you can be taught anything but the mechanics of DJing, you certainly can't learn which songs to always play because there aren't any, and reading a crowd is more about viscera than cerebra.

[Dragonfly]

and reading a crowd is more about viscera than cerebra.

and you need to know what those two mean ......right???? :D :D

[Danno13]

Weren't they on Gladiators?

[Corabar Entertainment]

I believe Nigel was talking about technical qualifications Alan, rather than DJing qualifications. (Nigel has told us that he's an electrical engineer)

[Corabar Steve]

Weren't they on Gladiators?

One of them used to wrestle for the WWE

[Dragonfly]

stop making me laugh .... i hurt!!!

i recently saw a dj course advertised at a club in nottingham 8 weeks 1 night a week with tutorials and seminars on the industry £400 i think it was.

[Corabar Steve]

Now that is http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-438.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[nigelwright7557]

I believe Nigel was talking about technical qualifications Alan, rather than DJing qualifications. (Nigel has told us that he's an electrical engineer)

I am an electronics engineer.
I was an electronics design consultant.

[Corabar Entertainment]

What few "qualifications" that exist for DJs, to my knowledge, don't mean squat until the theory is put into practice.

My opinion, of course:

6 months playing 2-3 nights a week (or more), with an open mind and other, more experienced people to talk to is worth more than any course. DJing is more about psycho-social intelligence than musical knowledge - it's not what you play so much as when you play it.

I don't think you can be taught anything but the mechanics of DJing, you certainly can't learn which songs to always play because there aren't any, and reading a crowd is more about viscera than cerebra.
I believe Nigel was talking about technical qualifications Alan, rather than DJing qualifications. (Nigel has told us that he's an electrical engineer)See? As I said, and just for clarification, he's told us again...
I am an electronics engineer.
I was an electronics design consultant.

[Corabar Steve]

Good, I thought we'd developed an echo tonight.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Viscera - guts
Cerebra - brain

It would appear that the art of language is dying :(

[Corabar Steve]

Viscera - guts

You can see why they called him Viscera then :sj:


http://www.popstarsplus.com/images/VisceraPicture.jpg

[Corabar Entertainment]

C'mon folks - we've been having a bit of a laugh tonight, I know, but we're taking everything WAY off topic!

:ontopic:

[Corabar Steve]

:sorry:

[Impactdisco]

Angela - Steve. Do you guys ever communicate by any other means than via the forum?...lol

[TONYTIGER]

Returning to thread. Most new businesses (as opposed to workers) have cheap introductory offers to establish themselves.

Well said that man ,Djs are always moaning about other Djs undercutting them its just like any other business you charge what you think is right to move your business forward, its called competition in the end the clients will decide if the enterprise is a success.

[Sam]

Well said that man ,Djs are always moaning about other Djs undercutting them its just like any other business you charge what you think is right to move your business forward, its called competition in the end the clients will decide if the enterprise is a success.

totally agree with that.

:)

[Corabar Steve]

Angela - Steve. Do you guys ever communicate by any other means than via the forum?...lol

Telepahty

[soundtracker]

Is that anything like telepathy?

[Penfold42]

Pmsl.....:d