Poor Discos

[Steve Hart]

I've just came back from a 30th party and the disco was shocking. He used 2 tables to put his cd player on and arrived with 2 lights. The speakers were not on stands and had a bit of rope lighting around the front of the tables. People like this should not be allowed to perform as this brings the disco industry right down. I suppose you get what you pay for and found out that he only charged 60 notes !!!! WHY. . . . I'm from the North East and just wondered if anyone else has experienced these cowboys..
Hart Promotions

[Dragonfly]

other than the kit you have not mentioned what music was played and if all and sundry complained how bad it was??

just because we on here have certain high standards as to what a disco should or shouldnt look like does not mean this chap was a cowboy by any means ...and he had 2 lights ???? and i know a dj who goes out with 2 lights week in week out and is rarely not working and charges a lot lot more than 60 quid

before you came posting here that he was a cowboy i assume you asked to see his PAT and public liability which I assume he did not posess and I also assume you checked and he was using all copied cds??

otherwise he might not conform to our bloated idea of what a disco should look like but a cowboy he may well not be.

[sleah]

I can beat that!:D

Going back a good 10 years.....
I was doing a gig in a local hotel that has two function rooms.
During a quiet patch (buffet) me and my mate poped up to the other room........
I couldn't tell you about what sound he was using as we went in to shock at seeing the lights.
He had two (or may be three) wooden standard lamps minus shades - yes the one's you have in your living room that than about 6ft from the floor, with domestic coloured bulbs in, just 'on', not flashing or anything. They were sort of behind him.
It still shocks me to this day thinking about it:eek:
He was in the bigger of the two rooms that seats something like 400 people....

Oh, I was using my goalpost rig with 4 scans, 4 parcans and some centre piece which was my bog standard rig at the time.

[groovy-nights]

Does not matter what gear you have.
Did he have people dancing? Did people enjoy them self? Yes there are alot of cheap discos in the north east.But this is the same anywere.

[sleah]

Does not matter what gear you have.
Did he have people dancing? Did people enjoy them self? Yes there are alot of cheap discos in the north east.But this is the same anywere.

Normally I'd agree and in Steve's case I'd agree with you, but in my case I would have been less shocked if he'd had no lights at all. Living room standard lamps? Come on.....:bang:

[groovy-nights]

Did not see your 1st post till after i had put mine up

[sleah]

Did not see your 1st post till after i had put mine up

Crossed in the post, as it were:D

[groovy-nights]

Yep in your case no lights would have been better

[Dillmiester]

I hope this thread dont turn into a willy waving competition!

[Have a disco]

I've just came back from a 30th party and the disco was shocking. He used 2 tables to put his cd player on and arrived with 2 lights. The speakers were not on stands and had a bit of rope lighting around the front of the tables. People like this should not be allowed to perform as this brings the disco industry right down. I suppose you get what you pay for and found out that he only charged 60 notes !!!! WHY. . . . I'm from the North East and just wondered if anyone else has experienced these cowboys..
Hart Promotions

Welcome to reality 2 lightbox 2 special effect lighting DJ's are very common, but if thats all the venue will fit, it just all he could put in or all he had or the price was paid for what would you do put a £3k show in a venue that can only hold 1k. I have seen beginners start like this and become legendary roadshows???? If the room was that small then he only got paid a small hire fee if not prehaps the customer requested minimal lighting ?????

[colint]

other than the kit you have not mentioned what music was played and if all and sundry complained how bad it was??

just because we on here have certain high standards as to what a disco should or shouldnt look like does not mean this chap was a cowboy by any means ...and he had 2 lights ???? and i know a dj who goes out with 2 lights week in week out and is rarely not working and charges a lot lot more than 60 quid

before you came posting here that he was a cowboy i assume you asked to see his PAT and public liability which I assume he did not posess and I also assume you checked and he was using all copied cds??

otherwise he might not conform to our bloated idea of what a disco should look like but a cowboy he may well not be.

Very well said, and after all we all have to start somewhere!
As said before (and I'm not the only one) I started with to record players & a guitar amp with no lights and only a dozen or so Lp's :eek:

[rob1963]

I have a friend who is a bit like that.

He has 2 powered speakers on stands & borrows a table on which he puts his laptop & mixer, and has a couple of basic lights which he puts on the floor.

Funnily enough, he is out virtually every Friday & Saturday, and much of his work is repeat bookings!

[spin mobile disco]

Nothing wrong with 2 light boxes and 2 effects. If nicely presented in a room of a size to compliment it (pub bar or working mens club for example) I admit its not the standard a lot on here expect but like Rob said there is a call for this.
Most of us wouldnt do the £70 pub jobs every fri and sat, and if we did we sure wouldnt risk our nice gear would we? I cant see Jamie for example taking 6 moving heads and dancfloor etc to a local for £70 (sorry Jamie just using you as an example mate)
They would love it but the maintenence of the rig alone would cost more than that.
My Dad has been DJ'ing for best part of 50 years now. He was the sort to borrow a table put 2 lightboxes in front to cover em up. 2 lighting effects up (maybe a UV as well) and off he went. He never had a friday or saterday off that I remember in all that time. But he owns all his own music including old 78's (younger ones look em up) and 8 tracks. Looked after his gear always looked neat. Never turned up late even if it meant taking taxi's with gear.
There is no way I would say he is a cowboy and if anyone did I would string em up. That is dedication, makes me cringe now when I compare modern rigs but at the time it was what was popular and it fitted.
Bottom line don't judge by the gear judge by the dancfloor. Oh by the way my dad has had pli since the early 70's when it became available. Im sure if P.A.T had existed as today he would have had that 2.

[dj-jaym]

im out most weeks for 200 - 250 most of the time, higher end 350-500

I take 2 active cabs, 1 bass bin, a small carlsbo minimix, pc and monitor, and 2 stairville (thomann) thomahawks,

Why ?????, never had no complaints quick to setup and take down, And why take more doesnt get YOU any more gigs realy i find that hard to beleive, I find it more of the willy waving brigade.

My lights fill the dancefloor nicely nice gobos, I cant see if i take a rig with moving heads scanners led par cans etc, on a ultimax stand getting me more work ???????

Why spend out when i would recoup it back, Anyone explain ?

Why buy mackie when use thomann the box ?

Why martin and not acme ?

If you buy double the price band do you get double the work ? if
not why bother?

TO op if he took full rig with all latest lights and put cabs on stands would he be ace ?


Admin Note:
Text talk not permitted

[PropellerHeadCase]

There is no way I would say he is a cowboy and if anyone did I would string em up.

That'd be a lynching, then? ;)

[Steve Hart]

Dont mean to sound petty but even the sound sounded poor. Bass was way too high and there was 1 kid dancing on their own all night. One of the lights he has was one which you used to get from ' Tandy ' 4 bulbs to entice the customers into the shop. I know everyone has to start off somewhere but the venue was a large club and did not fill the room. The people I was with commented and the Birthday was not impressed.

[rob1963]

im out most weeks for 200 - 250 most of the time, higher end 350-500

I take 2 active cabs, 1 bass bin, a small carlsbo minimix, pc and monitor, and 2 stairville (thomann) thomahawks,

Why ?????, never had no complaints quick to setup and take down, And why take more doesnt get u any more gigs realy i find that hard to beleive, I find it more of the willy waving brigade.

My lights fill the dancefloor nicely nice gobos, I cant see if i take a rig with moving heads scanners led par cans etc, on a ultimax stand getting me more work ???????

Why spend out when i would recoup it back, Anyone explain ?

Why buy mackie when use thomann the box ?

Why martin and not acme ?

If you buy double the price band do you get double the work ? if
not why bother?

TO op if he took full rig with all latest lights and put cabs on stands would he be ace ?

I have to say I agree with most of this.

A friend of mine uses a table & has a couple of lights on the floor. He can set up in just over 10 minutes and is out every Friday & Saturday.

I wouldn't go that far, as I don't think his set up looks particularly professional, but I want my set up to look reasonable without costing too much or making things too hard for me.

Why use trussing for lights when I can set up a tripod & t-bar in less than a minute?

Why use deck stands which take a good few minutes to put together when my ironing board type x-stand can be set up in a couple of seconds?

And why spend a fortune on the latest DMX lighting effects & controllers when customers won't even notice?

My basic set up uses 8 pinstops on a pre-wired bar, a mushroom light & a gobo flower.

Simple!

[Dragonfly]

would also agree in the main and for the record other than a set of dynamos going back from the start ie same day i bought them due to a fault the only lighting ive ever had to get fixed was ......Martin and Abstract???

everything i owned that was abstract has gone to the lighting graveyard in the sky.

[Vectis]

Find myself agreeing and disagreeing with a lot of the above, and it's already been hashed around so I won't repeat any of it.

In my area there's a lot of competition from the cheap-n-cheerful jocks during the quiet months (off-season) when the holiday hotels are not running entertainment and so I had to develop an offering to compete on price otherwise I'd be staying home every weekend. Not ideal, but realistic and at least if I get a price-sensitive customer I can fulfil their requirements and then start on the upsell, tempting them with other options, which tends to work quite well with some of the features I offer that other local DJs don't. Also means I'm getting word-of-mouth recommendations for events in the more profitable months.

However, I still insist on giving the "wow" factor because the locals here have been subjected to the same old tat for so long that I am always complimented on how the rig looks as well as the music and this goes a long way to getting those future bookings.

So my cheapest rig goes out for £80 on a Monday night in January to a local venue with easy access, 7:00-10:00 for the kids one with video, or £100 7:30-midnight for the adults one without. And it consists of d2, pair of Peavey Pro-15s, 4' or 6' deckstand, starcloth, pair of purelight lasers, pair of datamoons, pair of dynarolls, pair of stormbirds. With a custom loom and pre-fitted bracketry the whole thing takes 15-20 minutes to erect once all the gear's in the room.

I guess my point is that we all have local variances in customer demand and expectation and whilst some of us are keen to change perceptions and improve the image of the mobile dj, there are others who see it as an easy buck and will do the minimum necessary to survive, just as in any other unregulated industry. Those of us wishing to grow our businesses adapt to meet those variations in demand; those of us with an established business need not.

[JAMdisco]

I find that generally you do get what you pay for with regards equipment. Generally the more reliable equipment does cost more but saying that, I once had a H/H PA amplifier that fell out of the back of my van on more than one occasion - all that happened was a couple of heat sink fins broke off - still worked ok.

But lets be honest guys (and girls) we do like to play with new shiny toys dont we? My new laptop comes today and I'm all excited. :richie: :jumping: :clap:

[DJ Frankie]

I've just came back from a 30th party and the disco was shocking. He used 2 tables to put his cd player on and arrived with 2 lights. The speakers were not on stands and had a bit of rope lighting around the front of the tables. People like this should not be allowed to perform as this brings the disco industry right down. I suppose you get what you pay for and found out that he only charged 60 notes !!!! WHY. . . . I'm from the North East and just wondered if anyone else has experienced these cowboys..
Hart Promotions

But he was out working and you wasnt???? ;)

[Steve Hart]

Aye the Birthday girl did ask but did not want to pay our prices. By the time you have set up and doing a disco from 7pm till midnight is it really worth doing it for £60. People might say its experience for him - I suppose you pay for what you get...

[Shaun]

Where can I tether my horse? :cowboy:

Tonight I'm using 2 moving heads and 2 mackies. 10 minutes set-up time. Well, it is an 80th, and the guest of honour has specifically asked for not too many "flashy lights".

However, I regularly go out with between 2 and 6 lighting effects. Back in the day I used to use a massive amount of equipment, but these days that's reserved for youth events and similar type gigs. I prefer to work smarter, not harder. My 'feedback form' scores for lighting has remained the same high ranking since I made the decision to cut back on the amount of gear taken. The "equipment appearance" scoring has actually improved since I cut back. It appears (to me anyway) that less is definitely more, and the "minimalistic approach" lends itself to a classier look. That's just a personal opinion though, it really is up to each of you to decide what's right for you. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy breaking out all the gear when the event calls for it, but I love the majority of my gigs when I can be set-up in 20 minutes.

[Dragonfly]

Where can I tether my horse? :cowboy:

Tonight I'm using 2 moving heads and 2 mackies. 10 minutes set-up time. Well, it is an 80th, and the guest of honour has specifically asked for not too many "flashy lights".

However, I regularly go out with between 2 and 6 lighting effects. Back in the day I used to use a massive amount of equipment, but these days that's reserved for youth events and similar type gigs. I prefer to work smarter, not harder. My 'feedback form' scores for lighting has remained the same high ranking since I made the decision to cut back on the amount of gear taken. The "equipment appearance" scoring has actually improved since I cut back. It appears (to me anyway) that less is definitely more, and the "minimalistic approach" lends itself to a classier look. That's just a personal opinion though, it really is up to each of you to decide what's right for you. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy breaking out all the gear when the event calls for it, but I love the majority of my gigs when I can be set-up in 20 minutes.


indeed ive had lots of really nice comments since i ditched £300 worth of scanners and got a £20 mirrorball.

[TonyB]

This feels a bit like an AA meeting but I will confess I used to be a £40 a night beer money DJ. My rig consisted of a Fender Amp, two unbranded speakers, unflight cased KAM decks, a realistic mixer from Tandy and a pair of sequencer light boxes. Used to do lots of parties for friends and relatives and a good time was had by all.

They won't book me now because they say I am too expensive but my cousin is following in my footsteps although I am trying to educate him :)

[Shaun]

The moral of the story is..... "The equipment does not maketh the entertainer.

As the long is the gear in use is presented well, tidy, and the DJ is doing a good job entertaining the guests.....then that's all that counts, surely?. All too often DJ's get caught up buying the latest and greatest new fan-dangled toys (I'm as guilty as everyone else). At the end of the day all that matters is whether or not the client and guests enjoyed themselves. I truly believe that the guests couldn't care less about the 'toys' that I find myself buying all too often.

[Penfold42]

:agree:

Very true........:beer1:

[Twinspin]

see post below

[Vectis]

The customer notices the difference between mediocrity and something a bit more special.

That's my deduction from the feedback I get.

No-one ever looked at my stormbirds and said 'wow'.

Loads of people look at my dynarolls or my laser ball and say 'wow'.

Nuff said.

[sleah]

the way i see it is like this........ Wether the customer knows the difference or not. I still take quality equipment out on the road. Because by using quality gear it gives me peace of mind.

I think you're quite right. It's about quality not quantity.
I recently put some of my 25year old lights up at the night club, and they are tons better than the cheap modern ones we have. Recently a couple of staff have remarked on the "new" additions, but have never commented on the brand new kit that we have.
The old kit I'm using were my first "moving" lights. They were designed for club use, it was when using anything other than spot boxes was unheard of, main due to the cost of moving lights. I paid over £400 each for them back around 1990, they would have been about £1K new in the mid 80's.
I've only ever changed lampholders in them and tarted up the paintwork a bit.

[Dragonfly]

Equipment wise. Sorry to be what some may think bigheaded or idiot.

the way i see it is like this........ Wether the customer knows the difference or not. I still take quality equipment out on the road. Because by using quality gear it gives me peace of mind.

absolutely for your piece of mind im sure everyone wants the best equipment they can afford but the best is not necessarily that with the most zeros on the end of the price tag.


Some customers will know the difference. Compare a light than spins round with non gobos about 100w....... Compare than to a blazing dmx lightshow 250w halogen or any type of discharge . A lot of my customers who have booked me have been able to tell the difference.

.

again absolutely but.... as myself and a few others have found out being able to tell the difference and actually giving a toss about it can be two very different things.

and .....

not everyone wants that .... a blazing dmx lightshow.... ive had 2 bookings now that have booked with me because thats exactly what i dont do no have a blazing lightshow!

on the other side i had one chap call up for a wedding who wanted expressly an abstract lightshow he actually used the manufacturers name ...... i politely turned the gig down telling him that i no longer dealt with abstract as everything i bought from them seemed to have a very limited lifespan ......

and if his first prority was how many lights i had then to be honest he wasnt a client i wanted anyway.

[sleah]

on the other side i had one chap call up for a wedding who wanted expressly an abstract lightshow he actually used the manufacturers name

You mean he actually meant the manufaturer??:confused:
He wasn't using the term in it's true sense?
Why can't manufaturer's find unique names:bang:

Maybe he works for them......:rolleyes:

[Dragonfly]

You mean he actually meant the manufaturer??:confused:
He wasn't using the term in it's true sense?
Why can't manufaturer's find unique names:bang:

Maybe he works for them......:rolleyes:

nope he meant the manufacturer his sister worked for them and he equated them to being the best lights in the world ever and the only ones he wanted .... difinately the manufacturer.

[sleah]

nope he meant the manufacturer his sister worked for them and he equated them to being the best lights in the world ever and the only ones he wanted .... difinately the manufacturer.

Thought there had to be a connection somewhere.
I wonder if he's phoned lots of DJ's, found out nobody uses exclusively Abstract, and now wonders why:rolleyes:

[Steve Hart]

Just some advice then really, I would be using my giraffe stand and if I had to take only 4 lights anyone got some suggestions. I'd need them to fill a large venue as most of the disco rigs I have go to big social clubs. It is a pain humping all your gear about and yeah i agree that a few decent lights would prob be a lot easier and most of all quicker. . .

[Dragonfly]

you get a boat load of fill with a mirrorball

or 2 moonflowers and either 2 moving heads 2 scanners or 2 barrels depending on what effect you wish to achieve from your lighting.

[Steve Hart]

I suppose I am looking for loads of light to fill the whole room,

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But you don't need loads of lights to fill a room and you probably don't even need to fill the room, just the dance floor.

[Dragonfly]

But you don't need loads of lights to fill a room and you probably don't even need to fill the room, just the dance floor.

absolutely agree dj master since i started to dothis rather than recreating the golden mile at gigs ive had nothing but good comments from people and found more people stay in the room and longer.

[Twinspin]

In order for a lightshow to look good it doesnt have to be abstract or martin or equivalent.

Wouldnt you think a DMX lightshow looks really nice a customer would be able to tell the difference if even one show had say acme dynamos on there and another dj turned up with some real cheap lighting effects. Some customers would know...... Not the make/model/protocol but however they would know that the lightshow looks a lot better than the other djs and sometimes they may compliment it.

I must admit...... a blazing lightshow isnt everyones cup of tea. But if the customer isnt specific about that. Ill take the lights out and a few of my customers have been impressed. I make sure that the presentation of the lightshow looks good

I know its not right to demand a specific manufacturer of lights on someones discos.

If the customer isnt bothered about the lights fair enough..... But i still take the lights on a gig anyway and use them as i like to make the effort by putting on a nice show. People dont know what make it is but it looks good to them.

[nigelwright7557]

I've just came back from a 30th party and the disco was shocking. He used 2 tables to put his cd player on and arrived with 2 lights. The speakers were not on stands and had a bit of rope lighting around the front of the tables. People like this should not be allowed to perform as this brings the disco industry right down. I suppose you get what you pay for and found out that he only charged 60 notes !!!! WHY. . . . I'm from the North East and just wondered if anyone else has experienced these cowboys..
Hart Promotions

Not everyone can afford a top of the range disco or sometimes even a medium priced disco.

Perhaps he was doing the gig free with his own gear ?

I charge £75 and I certainly dont run around in a Transit van, my gear fits (just) in a Mondeo. There is certainly more than 2 lights and I never get any complaints.

[Corabar Steve]

That's good value for somebody with as much experience as you! :sarc:

[Vibrant Sounds]

That's good value for somebody with as much experience as you! :sarc:

Meoww!

I have used three or four Constella Chameleon 4 moonflowers for the majority of my gigs in the past couple of years. I occasionally I get asked for additional or different lighting (mirrorball, lasers, scanners, LED Pars and strips etc) but I tend to prefer the moonflowers for coverage and ease of setup, so only use the other stuff when specifically requested.

But, I am just about to change from the Chameleons as I am awaiting delivery of a pair of Wizard Extremes, and I expect to just use the pair of them at most gigs in the future, one on each stand set up immeditely behind each L1 column, and one 7ft flamelight beside each column, and Fibre optic starcloth which is now powered by a PAR36 LED so I can DMX it if required.

I have other lights, lots of them (sad to say, but boys toys rule) 2 RGY lasers, 7 scanners (3 roboscan 812s & 4 Mad QScans), 4 Futurelight CF200s, 7 LED Par56s, 1 FL1000 led flood (love it, will be buying more of them), mirrorball, some par16s converted to LED, pinspots. All get very little use.

As the wife is constantly moaning about the amount of 'junk' in the house, I suppose I will have to start getting rid of some of the less used stuff (to make room for new toys yet to come) and hopefully this will keep the peace.

[sleah]

(3 roboscan 812s &

Giz a shout if yer want to sell those 812 Roboscans...... I like to collect those aswell....:D

[Corabar Steve]

Meoww!
:whistle:

[soundtracker]

Nothing wrong with charging £75 at all! - I wouldn't do an hour for any less!!!

[Dragonfly]

Nothing wrong with charging £75 at all! - I wouldn't do an hour for any less!!!

thats provided there was someone on hand that could use the gear after you had set it up though surely??? :D :D :D

sorry sorry we need to get back on topic on this chaps ...

so what does actually constitute a poor disco? is there a stock answer or does it depend on many factors some of which are dictated by whatever function it is?

[Corabar Steve]

I saw a DJ last night. No lights at all, 2 unknown turntables & a numark mixer.
Badly distorted sound, but the place was packed all night.

[sleah]

I saw a DJ last night. No lights at all, 2 unknown turntables & a numark mixer.
Badly distorted sound, but the place was packed all night.

:D
I was going to make a comment like "he then realised he was set up in front of a mirror" but I don't think that my sofa will provide adequate protection, or that I can run fast enough for that matter:D :D :D :D
:jumping: :riceandrob:

[Corabar Steve]

http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1763.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[TonyB]

I sometimes think we worry too much about what the client expects (which is a good thing!). I often turn up to a venue and find a table where I am to set up because usually the venue is used to supplying one. I get comments like the "disco" usually set up over there, pointing to a 4 foot wide space which would just about accommodate the deckstand without the speakers and lighting stands.

Its often a case of having to shoehorn the gear in sometimes with speakers behind the lighting stand and barely enough room behind the decks to stand.

It seems that the client expects decks and amps on a table with a couple of speakers with no thought about where to put any lights.

So I would suggest that most members here surpass the clients expectations. A poor disco would be one that doesn't meet the clients expectations.

Weekend before last, I was speaking to the client after the gig and he asked how I manage to play the tracks without gaps between them and make them fade into each other because CD's have gaps between each track. I showed him the twin decks and explained to him how the mixer worked. While I had his interested, explained how the signal from the mixer went to the Ultrafex then the crossover etc (bet he wished he hadn't asked) and he was blown away with how much gear was needed just to put on a show.

It does seem that a lot of clients perception of what we do is that we turn up with a CD deck, amplifier and speakers, and just play one track after another for which their perceived value is £60/£70 (and I know a few DJ's who do exactly that and charge that) but as long as they fulfill the clients expectations and put on a good nights entertainment, they can't be that bad.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Yep, most of what we do comes under the heading of "DJ magic" - I'm constantly amazed at how many people think that just because they have't heard the mix of a song that I'm playing that I've done something to the track (which I s'pose I should take as a compliment).

[BeerFunk]

Yep, most of wht we do comes under the heading of "DJ magic" - I'm constantly amazed at how many people think that just because they have't heard the mix of a song that I'm playing that I've done something to the track (which I s'pose I should take as a compliment).
It depends whether it's "wow, that's wicked, DJ, keep it up!" or "oi!! what the *bleep* are you doing to that song!!?" :D

[Excalibur]

:D
I was going to make a comment like "he then realised he was set up in front of a mirror" but I don't think that my sofa will provide adequate protection, or that I can run fast enough for that matter:D :D :D :D
:jumping: :riceandrob:

Moi Aussi!:D