how do customers sign my terms & conditions?

[cara]

this may sound like a silly question but how do i get my terms signed by a customer so that i have a copy and they have a copy?

the only way i can think of is to have 1 contract each or to have my terms on double carbon paper so i rip of say the pink page to hand to the customer & i retain say the yellow page

also at a gig last night the customer asked me for an invoice so i gave him a receipt book i'd bought from a stationers with a company stamp with contact details on, wrote out in pen what he paid for, how much etc. stamped it and gave him the carbon copy

do you think this is ok?

thanks folks

[Danno13]

I send the contract, they send it back signed, I sign it, photocopy and send back as a confirmation.

I use proper printed invoices and send them as a payment reminder 21days before, as my terms are 14 days advance payment, looks much more pro than using a receipt book IMO.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Or send two copies of the contract and ask them to keep one for their records and sign one and send it back.

[Danno13]

But then wouldn't the one they keep not have your signature on? Or you'd have to sign before sending and be open to abuse...

[TonyB]

Send two copies of the t&c with the booking confirmation and invoice for deposit. Ask them to sign and return one copy with the deposit.

When they are returned, send confirmation of receipt and invoice for the balance with a reminder of payment terms.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But then wouldn't the one they keep not have your signature on? Or you'd have to sign before sending and be open to abuse...

Open to what abuse?

The information is printed on the front, dated and signed by me and the T&Cs are on the back.

[cara]

ok thanks for the ideas guys, i've got a grasp of it now (i think) ;0)

would it be possible does anyone think to have my terms & conditions printed on carbon paper, if so how would i go about doing it?

it just seems easier as we'd both have an exact copy and only have to send it once

or would there be anyway of doing it by e-mail do you think?

hmmm maybe not because they wouldn't be able to sign it

[Danno13]

Open to what abuse?

The information is printed on the front, dated and signed by me and the T&Cs are on the back.

Probably just the way I do my booking forms... but for example, if i quote for a certain venue and sign the form.. then the form comes back with a different venue and address filled in?

I could fill it in myself before sending it out, but prefer to let the customer do that, just incase I mis-copy/interpret something... and also not everyone has all the details to hand when I'm speaking to them on the phone.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I send 2 copies of the booking form to the client.
One copy is signed by me which they keep.
The other copy needs to be signed by them and returned with the deposit.
When I have the signed copy returned to me, I scan it so it's on my system as a record.
I always send them a notification either by email or snail mail that I have received the deposit.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Probably just the way I do my booking forms... but for example, if i quote for a certain venue and sign the form.. then the form comes back with a different venue and address filled in?

I could fill it in myself before sending it out, but prefer to let the customer do that, just incase I mis-copy/interpret something....

I only ever send completed contracts in the post - I gather all the information beforehand, so it is there in black and white.

The client then checks it over, signs and send me back one copy. I'm not sure why you wouldn't put all the details on your contracts really?

Why would you misinterpret something?

[cara]

ok guys another question, what do you do with regards to contracts if a last minute booking comes in?

for instace you take the call on the tuesday and the customer wants to hire you for the friday 3 days later?

would you still take a contract to the gig and get them to sign it?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

ok guys another question, what do you do with regards to contracts if a last minute booking comes in?

for instace you take the call on the tuesday and the customer wants to hire you for the friday 3 days later?

would you still take a contract to the gig and get them to sign it?

If they can't get it round to me via post or in person, then yes, but generally if it was only a regular venue.

[Danno13]

I only ever send completed contracts in the post - I gather all the information beforehand, so it is there in black and white.

The client then checks it over, signs and send me back one copy. I'm not sure why you wouldn't put all the details on your contracts really?

Why would you misinterpret something?

Don't know really.. guess its just the way I've always done it and it would just seem a bit odd sending a booking form out where i've already agreed to the booking before they've agreed to book me (in writing). I do put the dates, times and fee on though.

For last minute bookings I'd turn up and have them sign the contract and pay cash before I'd setup. Unless they were local enough to visit and exchange contracts, but neither happens very often.

[Tom]

from what i have seen there is to much signing and sending to clients.

i only send 1 t&c to the client. One sheet has all the t&c infomation on and on the second piece of paper is writes there name, sign it and date then they keep the first sheet and send back the 2nd if you understand that. if the client is local to me i will arrange a date for me to go over to there house and have a chat and get the t&c signs with out the need for post.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

If I were in that scenario and they were local, I would do what I generally do with most of my clients and that is to go and visit them and get it done that way.

Reason being, it puts their minds at rest as well as mine because they may think I might not turn up and vice versa.

To go back to the original question too and the point someone made about contracts in general. Mine have the following information on them which I fill in when I am at the meeting with them (I then go away and transfer the information on to a booking form so it's all typed out neatly etc).

Name (s)
Address
Email
Home Phone No
Mobile Phone No
Type of function
Duration
Venue address & Phone number
Venue contact
Is the venue accessible by stairs
Number of guests
Price quoted

There is also a space on there for specific song requests including first dances if it's a wedding and also a DON'T PLAY section. Lastly, on the back of the form are the terms and conditions.

[flatliners]

if you get work off another mobile disco company does anyone have a contract that the disco company would have to sign i am thinking about this but not sure if it i would have to do it on a gig by gig basis or i could get the company to sign say a yearly one

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I should imagine that if you are sub contracting, you will get a yearly contract. I don't do it myself so I may be wrong on that one.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I should imagine that if you are sub contracting, you will get a yearly contract. I don't do it myself so I may be wrong on that one.

I thought you had others working for you?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Yes, I have but when I said "I don't do it" that means that I don't work for anyone else!!

The people that do stuff for me, whether it's every week or once a year all have a contract from me and it just states the obvious (payments, manner etc).

[Danno13]

I send out an artist contract, which contains the gig details and t&cs for other DJs to sign and send back, just to cover my own back really.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yes, I have but when I said "I don't do it" that means that I don't work for anyone else!!



Ah....I see. :o

[rob1963]

My terms & conditions are on my website.

I also send out a paper version with the booking form for the client to keep.

They complete the booking form & then sign it under the statement "I have read and understood the terms & conditions of business and agree to abide by them"

Simple!

[Shaun]

My booking forms and T&C's are all on the one form. When I have all the event details I send out two (pre-filled) booking forms to the client. I have them sign and return both forms along with the cheque for the booking fee. Upon clearance of the booking fee I sign and return one copy of the agreement to them.

If the booking fee is paid online I send two signed forms to them and have them return one copy to me, retaining one copy for their records.

Seems to work for me.

[Corabar Steve]

if you get work off another mobile disco company does anyone have a contract that the disco company would have to sign i am thinking about this but not sure if it i would have to do it on a gig by gig basis or i could get the company to sign say a yearly one

For crying out loud! Can you please use some punctuation in your posts!

I have absolutely no idea what the above post was supposed to say & I really can't be bothered to try & decipher it.

I assume it was a question, if so one of these ? at the end would be a good idea. If you want help & advice, it's a good idea to make sure other members have a chance of getting some idea of what it is you are on about.

[flatliners]

Steve i will try and use some punctuation. My new years resolution is to use proper punctuation and not use those three letters _ c _.

[Corabar Steve]

http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-438.gif (http://planetsmilies.net):approve:

[Vectis]

My booking 'pack' consists of:

* Intro & thanks letter, personalised to the client and signed by moi
* Statement of understanding of their requirements, to be edited if necessary, countersigned and returned
* Several pages of information about options that are available with their chosen package or at their chosen venue (plus any prior knowledge about the venue such as warnings about sound limiters, access problems etc.) - ie the "upsell"
* A copy of the T's & C's with a summary of the booking (date, venue, times, price) with my signature, to be countersigned and returned
* A copy of the T's & C's for them to keep
* A musical preferences questionnaire
* Any other marketing guff they've asked for or I think is appropriate - brochures, fridge magnets, cards etc.

For bookings completed online, everything is emailed or done over the website with online forms except the acceptance of the Ts & Cs which must be printed, countersigned, and either posted back to me, faxed, or scanned & emailed.

Sounds complex but everything is templated so it only takes a few minutes per booking. Customers give really positive feedback about fully understanding everything that was going on and how they have confidence in us from the initial exchanges. On the plus side, the majority of gigs have some 'upsell' as a result of spelling out all the options, even if it's just a box of glowsticks. More often than not, customers aren't aware of all the options we offer and it sometimes seems inappropriate during the phone call / email stage to go into too much detail, or maybe they have to confer with hubby-to-be who's at work, or whatever. Offering options such as video theming gets them thinking and often makes all the difference to what would otherwise be 'just another party'.

[Penfold42]

For crying out loud! Can you please use some punctuation in your posts!

I have absolutely no idea what the above post was supposed to say & I really can't be bothered to try & decipher it.

I assume it was a question, if so one of these ? at the end would be a good idea. If you want help & advice, it's a good idea to make sure other members have a chance of getting some idea of what it is you are on about.

:sofa:

[wensleydale]

i've just seen this thread and am struggling to understand how it has gone on for so long- send 2 copies which you have signed when you send the confirmation and then get them to send one back.

done.

[Dragonfly]

looked at this thread title and thought .... with a pen??? :D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

i've just seen this thread and am struggling to understand how it has gone on for so long

Because people have different opinions and different ways of doing things, a lot of which seem way too complicated to me. ;)

[rob1963]

I agree about the complicated thing.

My way is best!

:rolleyes:

[cara]

thanks for the info guys i've got a good understanding of things now

[wensleydale]

Because people have different opinions and different ways of doing things, a lot of which seem way too complicated to me. ;)

it would appear so.
i am thinking of employing a typing pool of chimps to produce in triplicate any correspondence I send to customers.
then using carrier pigeon to deliver it.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

it would appear so.
i am thinking of employing a typing pool of chimps to produce in triplicate any correspondence I send to customers.
then using carrier pigeon to deliver it.

Ah, the same as me then. ;)

[Andy Westcott]

What is complicated about creating a permanent template in Word of similar, then loading it up on the computer so that you can fill in the details unique to that event?

I finalise everything over the phone (or sometimes in person) and when we are both happy about the details, I print out 2 copies of the agreement which lists everything from their address to price. The two forms are signed by me, and these plus my T&C are sent to the client.

The customer signs one and sends it back, this confirming the acceptance of my services. I'll usually give them a bell or e-mail to let them know I've recieved the signed form.

This doesn't represent much paperwork considering the money involved - it's not as if you are selling something for a quid, is it?

[rob1963]

i've just seen this thread and am struggling to understand how it has gone on for so long.

Maybe it's because everyone has a different way of doing things, and therefore has different advice to give!

[rob1963]

What is complicated about creating a permanent template in Word of similar, then loading it up on the computer so that you can fill in the details unique to that event?

That's how I have the letters which accompany my paperwork set up, and I just fill in the spaces with their name, address, function details & cost.

I have "letter 1" which thanks them for their booking request, asks them to read the terms & conditions & then complete & return the enclosed booking form with their deposit.

I then send "letter 2" which thanks them for returning the booking form and deposit, confirms their booking and asks them to complete the enclosed music request form if required.

"Letter 3" is rarely used, It's a chaser for those rare occasions when I don't receive the booking form & deposit within the required 2 weeks from when they requested the booking.

[Dreamstar Entertainment]

just to confuse things futher, why does the client need to receive anything with your signature on????? all i do once they have decided they want to book is send them a copy of T&cs along with one booking form, by signing booking form they agrees to T&Cs which they then return to me along with deposit. Is this not enough???? it seems most people are sending various amounts of forms etc

[rob1963]

why does the client need to receive anything with your signature on????? all i do once they have decided they want to book is send them a copy of T&cs along with one booking form, by signing booking form they agrees to T&Cs which they then return to me along with deposit. Is this not enough???? it seems most people are sending various amounts of forms etc

Because if you're sending them a booking form with your terms & conditions, presumably you'll include a covering letter thanking them for their booking request & telling them what to do...and I'm guessing that letter will have your signature on.

That's what I do, and mine does!

[DazzyD]

My booking system consists of 2 databases which I've developed myself. The first (and older one) uses Lotus Approach and I enter all the details needed for the booking (customer details, venue details, event details, financial stuff and extra notes) and then it prints off a thank-you letter, two copies of the contract and even the envelopes - one to send it all to the customer and one for the customer to return a signed copy of the contract along with the deposit cheque. It also lets me keep track of bookings and compiles sales & stats charts.

My newer booking system was created with Microsoft Access. It imports the data from Lotus Approach and helps with creating reports (these are better than reports in Approach itself).

If anyone uses Lotus Approach (included in Lotus SmartSuite), I'd be happy to email them a blank copy of the booking system database along with instructions on how to adapt it for your own business. Or, if you give me the relevant details I can modify it for you. It's pretty basic but it does the job. The MS Access database is far from complete so I won't share that one just yet. If anyone wants it just let me know!

[theoloyla]

ok thanks for the ideas guys, i've got a grasp of it now (i think) ;0)

would it be possible does anyone think to have my terms & conditions printed on carbon paper, if so how would i go about doing it?

it just seems easier as we'd both have an exact copy and only have to send it once

or would there be anyway of doing it by e-mail do you think?

hmmm maybe not because they wouldn't be able to sign it
The pads of pre printed standard disco contracts available from SEDA are self carbonated triple sets with terms and conditions on the back. Bottom copy you keep for reference, you sign the top 2 copies and send to client, they keep their copy and send top copy back to you signed and with deposit. At that stage the contract is completed.

[Shaun]

Bottom copy you keep for reference, you sign the top 2 copies and send to client, they keep their copy and send top copy back to you signed and with deposit. At that stage the contract is completed.

I've never quite understood why people provide a signed copy of the agreement before they've received the initial fee. The only time the client is provided with their copy of the agreement is when the initial payment is received and it's cleared in in the back. Then and only then do I forward them their copy.

By providing them with a signed copy before payment, you've basically committed yourself to the agreement before you're paid....or am I missing something?.

There seems to be a lot of people that do it the way you've described, maybe my thinking on this is wrong?.

[rob1963]

I've never quite understood why people provide a signed copy of the agreement before they've received the initial fee. The only time the client is provided with their copy of the agreement is when the initial payment is received and it's cleared in in the back. Then and only then do I forward them their copy.

By providing them with a signed copy before payment, you've basically committed yourself to the agreement before you're paid....or am I missing something?.

I agree.

They get nothing from me until I've received the signed booking form & deposit!

[theoloyla]

I've never quite understood why people provide a signed copy of the agreement before they've received the initial fee. The only time the client is provided with their copy of the agreement is when the initial payment is received and it's cleared in in the back. Then and only then do I forward them their copy.

By providing them with a signed copy before payment, you've basically committed yourself to the agreement before you're paid....or am I missing something?.

There seems to be a lot of people that do it the way you've described, maybe my thinking on this is wrong?.
Yes you are committing yourself to the gig by signing the contract but one assumes you want the gig otherwise you would not be issuing the contract; however, the contract is not completed and legally binding until they have signed too and returned with their deposit. If the cheque fails to clear then they are in breach of contract themselves; so you can cancel the booking.

[Ace DJ]

You must only sign the agreement once you have the signed copy from the client plus the advance payment. You are leaving yourself open to all manor of legalities. Remember they are engaging you and are agreeing to your T&G.

Also always print your T&G on the reverse of your agreement. (They cannot say they didn't receive them then) With the wording '' These terms and conditions as printed overleaf form part of this agreement. On signing you are also agreeing to be bound by them'' .
Do thing right in the first place because you never know when you will need to prove something. It iliminates and misunderstandings.
ACE

[Shaun]

Precisely. That's exactly why I don't provide a signed contract till the initial payment is provided and cleared.

[theoloyla]

Precisely. That's exactly why I don't provide a signed contract till the initial payment is provided and cleared.
Sorry I disagree with that.

[rob1963]

always print your T&G on the reverse of your agreement. (They cannot say they didn't receive them then) With the wording ''These terms and conditions as printed overleaf form part of this agreement. On signing you are also agreeing to be bound by them'' .
Do thing right in the first place because you never know when you will need to prove something. It iliminates and misunderstandings.
ACE

That's not necessary.

My terms & conditions are on a seperate sheet of paper to the booking form.

When clients have read them, they complete the booking form & sign it under the following declaration "I have read and understood the terms & conditions of business, and agree to adhere to them"

I think that covers it.

[theoloyla]

That's not necessary.

My terms & conditions are on a seperate sheet of paper to the booking form.

When clients have read them, they complete the booking form & sign it under the following declaration "I have read and understood the terms & conditions of business, and agree to adhere to them"

I think that covers it.
Yes it does but it is easier if they are printed on the back of the contract.

[Andy Westcott]

True, if you are able to fit them all on one page, and still retain a readable font size.

[music-2-play]

Or send two copies of the contract and ask them to keep one for their records and sign one and send it back.

Yeah, this is probably the most common approach. Sign both copies yourself, send both to client and get them to return one signed.

Remember, the contract (on paper) is really just a confirmation of an oral contract you have already agreed. So, when you write out the contract, at the head of the paper state

"An agreement is made on this date ---- (whatever date a client confirmed they would like to book for the price you quoted)

and then put down the terms of the agreement below (timings, latests arrival time, fee, date, venue etc)

Make sure you draw their attention to the terms and conditions, especially if they're on a separate page. A customer must be given adequate notice of T&Cs for them to be enforceable, even if they choose to ignore and not read them.

[music-2-play]

I've never quite understood why people provide a signed copy of the agreement before they've received the initial fee. The only time the client is provided with their copy of the agreement is when the initial payment is received and it's cleared in in the back. Then and only then do I forward them their copy.

By providing them with a signed copy before payment, you've basically committed yourself to the agreement before you're paid....or am I missing something?.

There seems to be a lot of people that do it the way you've described, maybe my thinking on this is wrong?.

Essentially, clause 7 of my Terms and Coditions reads "The Deposit of ----- is payable upon entering into this Agreement. The Engagement is not deemed to be confirmed until the Deposit is received by the Artiste". Then in the main body of the agreement under the Deposit Payable Heading, is a reference to Clause 7.

This means, although they have entered into an agreement with me, confirmation of the engagment itself is conditional on receipt of a deposit. Terms like 'the Artiste' are fairly common in entertainment contracts, though I always feel a bit pretentious :)

[Ace DJ]

The correct way round is.
You send them a copy of the agreement with your T&C's printed on the reverse side.
At the bottom of the agreement where it is to be signed you have a paragraph stating:
'' The booking as set out above is subject to the Terms and Conditions as printed overleaf. These form part of this agreement. By signing you are agreeing to be bound by them. On our receipt of this signed agreement
and the advance payment a copy will be sent to you for your records.''
Never send a signed agreement before you have the advance payment and the clients signed copy.

If you use any wording such as ''Artiste'' or whatever to name yourself that word must be use throughout your agreement and T&C's otherwise your agreement will be void. Because who is ''The Artiste''
It is much better to use the phrase at the begining ''Joe Bloggs Disco'' hereafter named as the ''Artiste.''

This has been said many time on here and other forums do not use the word ''Deposit'' Use ''Advance payment'' instead. Because you can get into a lot of legal wrangling using ''Deposits''

[music-2-play]

The correct way round is.
You send them a copy of the agreement with your T&C's printed on the reverse side.
At the bottom of the agreement where it is to be signed you have a paragraph stating:
'' The booking as set out above is subject to the Terms and Conditions as printed overleaf. These form part of this agreement. By signing you are agreeing to be bound by them. On our receipt of this signed agreement
and the advance payment a copy will be sent to you for your records.''
Never send a signed agreement before you have the advance payment and the clients signed copy.

If you use any wording such as ''Artiste'' or whatever to name yourself that word must be use throughout your agreement and T&C's otherwise your agreement will be void. Because who is ''The Artiste''
It is much better to use the phrase at the begining ''Joe Bloggs Disco'' hereafter named as the ''Artiste.''

This has been said many time on here and other forums do not use the word ''Deposit'' Use ''Advance payment'' instead. Because you can get into a lot of legal wrangling using ''Deposits''

Yep, I define the term at the start of the agreemenrt and then use "the Artiste" througout --- likewise with "the Client". This saves a lot redrafting.

I define 'Deposit' sufficiently well in the agreement to avoid any ambiguity, defining it as an advance payment. The exact wording is:

Total Payment Due:

A total of ______ , inclusive of all taxes is payable. ___ of this is payable by the Client immediately as an Advanced Payment (the ‘Deposit’ - see clause 6 below). The Client shall pay the outstanding balance of £220.00 to the Artiste on the Event Date, upon arrival of the Artiste at the Venue.

At the end, where the client signs, is a declararion 'I, the undersigned, being over the age of 18, have read and understood the above Terms and Conditions and agree to abide by them.

[music-2-play]

I tried to condense my contract to 2 pages, which is understandable for a client and is as watertight and fair as possible. I know what a court will look for in a contract in order for it to be enforceable.

If you want to make a longer more complex contract, you'd have a separate section in the agreement with a heading called "Condition Precedent" (these are things that must happen in order for the contract to..umm..become a contract. In here, you would have a clause that states that the agreement shall not come into effect until the Advance Payment/Deposit is recieved.

It's fairly common practice (at least with the two agents I've worked for), to be sent two copies of an agreement already signed by the agent. I sign both copies, keep one, then return the other. There's no reason this practice need be any different with a company/client contract, as long as the contract is worded correctly.

If you have a Condition Precedent, or wording to that effect (as I have), there is absolutely no harm in signing two copies and sending them to your client. They return one, with the deposit (voila..agreement made)... They don't get the deposit to you (agreement not made) and you have no obligation to perform or reserve the booking.

This approach saves you extra postage and fax costs, plus seeing your signature already on a contract puts the client's mind at rest immediately that you are bona fide. That signature means "NOTHING", unless you have recieved the required Advance Payment/Deposit.

[CRAZY K]

Yeah, this is probably the most common approach. Sign both copies yourself, send both to client and get them to return one signed.

Remember, the contract (on paper) is really just a confirmation of an oral contract you have already agreed. So, when you write out the contract, at the head of the paper state

"An agreement is made on this date ---- (whatever date a client confirmed they would like to book for the price you quoted)

and then put down the terms of the agreement below (timings, latests arrival time, fee, date, venue etc)

Make sure you draw their attention to the terms and conditions, especially if they're on a separate page. A customer must be given adequate notice of T&Cs for them to be enforceable, even if they choose to ignore and not read them.

I would say an alternative approach ( which I copied off a Hire Agreement many years ago) is to say at the top of the page--

CONTRACT FOR HIRE OF SERVICES

I agree to hire the undernoted Services on the terms and conditions as shown below-

List all relevant info date, place, hirers name, fee etc including your T and Cs and have a signature at the end of both Parties.

Hirer retains one copy and sends the other back signed.

Its worked ok for 25 years including collecting fees for several cancelled gigs:)

CRAZY K

[music-2-play]

I would say an alternative approach ( which I copied off a Hire Agreement many years ago) is to say at the top of the page--

CONTRACT FOR HIRE OF SERVICES

I agree to hire the undernoted Services on the terms and conditions as shown below-

List all relevant info date, place, hirers name, fee etc including your T and Cs and have a signature at the end of both Parties.

Hirer retains one copy and sends the other back signed.

Its worked ok for 25 years including collecting fees for several cancelled gigs:)

CRAZY K

Yep, for sure, the good thing about a contract, is as long as a piece of paper shows:

-what the client has to do (i.e. pay you, etc)
- when the client has to do it
- what the dj has to do and where and when they have to do it.
- and that both the client and dj agree to everything on the piece of paper

...then it will be a contract.

It doesn't matter really how its phrased or how the written contract is structured, as long as a judge would look at it and think 'well, this looks pretty clear...'

The main requirement of a contract are:

Consideration (money or money's worth)

Offer and Acceptance (have both parties signed?, or even agreed orally...a court can impute acceptance from an action. So for example, if they send you a deposit, but forget to sign the contract, they would probably still be bound)

Intention to enter into legal relations

----

You don't even need a physical document, but evidentiary reasons, it would obviously be desirable to have some form of contract.

[CRAZY K]

You don't even need a physical document, but evidentiary reasons, it would obviously be desirable to have some form of contract.

This is the problem wIth technical issues--you need some focus on the
really important issues.

LIKE GETTING PAID YOUR MONEY

:D :D :D

CRAZY K