Problems Problems Problems!

[Impactdisco]

I've been discoing with my new computer all summer after buying new as my old one cut out on me a couple of times. I figured a new one would solve an uncomfortable problem.

On Friday night I did a disco at a venue I'd had problems with my old computer at, and guess what? My new computer crashed 4 times! Fortunately I had a minidisc with 6 mixes set up so apart from and abrupt end to a few songs, it wasn't too bad other than me being stressed out!

Yesterday I did everything I could to make my computer replicate the fault, but it wouldn't. Therefore I'm leaning toward the idea that sometimes dodgy electric at venues could be the problem. I have surge protectors on my equipment.

One thing's for sure, I'm glad I had back up, but I'm taking some CDs and head unit from now on just incase that happens again!

My question is this, any ideas on how to stop this situation arising without going back to CDs full time?

[Steve Hart]

Hiya, Have you taken your computer to a computer specialist and told them the problem that you are having. A good company should tell you pretty much straight away what the fault is. I sometimes use a laptop when doing gigs but it is still a must to take a variety of cd's incase something like this happens.

[Impactdisco]

Not yet, it happened Friday Night so not had chance yet

[Vectis]

I use a laptop AND a d2 director both with external HDDs so in essence have four "live decks". The laptop is there for background sequences and as a backup for the d2 - I use OTS which has never once glitched or crashed in about 3 years. The d2 is the main playout device for the body of the disco and it too hasn't given me any trouble (apart from self-induced!) in the last 9 months or so since I made the switch.

When using the laptop I ALWAYS have a suitable song cued on one of the d2 decks and vice-versa.

On top of this for the majority of gigs I also have the video playout laptop which in essence gives me a fifth 'live deck' / third 'live device'.

The only thing (apart from a power cut) that would cause a gap in my playout would be a mixer or amp going 'poof' - and in that case there's a spare in the rack! A quick rewire would get me going again in no time.

[Excalibur]

I've been discoing with my new computer all summer after buying new as my old one cut out on me a couple of times. I figured a new one would solve an uncomfortable problem.

On Friday night I did a disco at a venue I'd had problems with my old computer at, and guess what? My new computer crashed 4 times! Fortunately I had a minidisc with 6 mixes set up so apart from and abrupt end to a few songs, it wasn't too bad other than me being stressed out!

Yesterday I did everything I could to make my computer replicate the fault, but it wouldn't. Therefore I'm leaning toward the idea that sometimes dodgy electric at venues could be the problem. I have surge protectors on my equipment.

One thing's for sure, I'm glad I had back up, but I'm taking some CDs and head unit from now on just incase that happens again!

My question is this, any ideas on how to stop this situation arising without going back to CDs full time?

Two things spring to mind. How far away is the venue? Could you go back for a play, and see if the fault is unique to this venue? If it is, would some form of UPS/Power conditioner help? I know some folk on here would not work without one. Hope this helps.:confused:

[mb3]

Are you using a laptop or a desktop? If it's a desktop you should use a UPS, not just a surge protector.

The battery in a laptop should prevent the need for a UPS but if you have seperate HDD with it's own power supply then you will need a UPS for that part of the kit.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

What do you mean, the computer crashed or your software crashed?

[Dillmiester]

If a pc starts crashing for no reason when nothing has been changed, my money would be on a heat build up first and hardware failure next like hardrive followed by memory.
I ensure good air flow under my laptop and have a laptop cooler on standby if needed.
Have the insides around the fan and chip cleaned as they clog up over a year and drastically reduce cooling.

[Impactdisco]

I use a desktop, and I did wonder about overheating, but there is nothing different about how I set it up.

It's worked perfectly all day today again.

What is a USP/Power conditioner?

When I said It crashed, I meant that computer just turned itself off.

[Tom]

does the pc get slower before it turns off??? if so then maby you are running to many background programs that are slowing down the pc. But then again, if it has lots of ram and a large CPU then it should be ok. ???

[PropellerHeadCase]

If people re-read the original post it was clearly stated that this problem hadn't occurred with this machine before but this problem had occurred with a different machine at the same venue... ipso facto the problem is with the venue, and most likely the power supply at the venue.

I have a power conditioner in my stack and it has a little LED metre showing the voltage coming to it - any time the voltage gets down near 200 (from the optimal 220) I can hear audible artifacts in CD play back and my lap-top gets sluggish. This is usually down to other high-drain devices being on the same circuit (ovens, hand-dryers, etc.), or faulty wiring. If you can go back to the venue do so with a volt-meter (may be worth hiring one for the purpose although they aren't generally expensive to buy) and test both the point from which you source your power and others that might be available at a push in, say, a 10-15m radius from your set-up location.

I played at a venue about 4 months ago where the voltage was down near 180 and I had to run about 30 metres of cable to get decent power. The ultimate irony being that the on-site manageress' husband was an electrician.

[Dillmiester]

If people re-read the original post it was clearly stated that this problem hadn't occurred with this machine before but this problem had occurred with a different machine at the same venue... ipso facto the problem is with the venue, and most likely the power supply at the venue.

I have a power conditioner in my stack and it has a little LED metre showing the voltage coming to it - any time the voltage gets down near 200 (from the optimal 220) I can hear audible artifacts in CD play back and my lap-top gets sluggish. This is usually down to other high-drain devices being on the same circuit (ovens, hand-dryers, etc.), or faulty wiring. If you can go back to the venue do so with a volt-meter (may be worth hiring one for the purpose although they aren't generally expensive to buy) and test both the point from which you source your power and others that might be available at a push in, say, a 10-15m radius from your set-up location.

I played at a venue about 4 months ago where the voltage was down near 180 and I had to run about 30 metres of cable to get decent power. The ultimate irony being that the on-site manageress' husband was an electrician.

Good point, well presented.
I have no expierence of a power supply that bad but it makes sence. Computers do have a good tolerence on power, usually can opperate on alot less than 240v.

[mb3]

What is a USP/Power conditioner?

UPS = Uninterruptable Power Supply

Basically, if the mains voltage dips or fails altogether the UPS kicks in to make sure the PC still gets the right voltage.

If the venue has a fully loaded power supply... or even overloaded... you will get a voltage dip every time a powerful item... pizza oven... lift motor... floodlighting... switches on. This could well be enough to cause your PC to crash.

CPC sell UPS units for about £40.

[Impactdisco]

Thanks for that guys. I reckon I will get a UPS just to be on the safe side and see where it goes from there.

[Vectis]

CPC sell UPS units for about £40.

Just don't go plugging your amp or lighting into it :eek:

Those cheap units have a fairly low rating of say 500 - 700VA (or Watts, if you prefer) - OK for a small computer, a laptop, a HDD deck, a mixer, radio mic. etc (maybe!) but after that you'll struggle.

To get into 2kVA - 3kVA territory (which you'd need for a typical fully loaded rig) you're talking a lot of expense and a lot of weight to shift around. Even then you have other considerations such as inductive or resistive loads to think about...

I'd carefully think through what you need it for and then take proper advice before splashing any cash.

Personally I carry a 500VA unit to venues with sound limiters - purely to keep the d2 alive and running, and avoid crashing any hard drives.

[Impactdisco]

I think I would only need it for the computer as Everything else worked fine.
Vectis - where did you get your one? I think this my solve my problem.

Since I've had OTS, I really don't want to go back to CDs, but I'm gonna take some out with me for a while, because I really don't want the feeling I had the other night. My minidisc was OK, but I only had five or six mixes on the disc as I never thought I'd need to use more than one, but I was very stressed at needing to use four of the mixes on Saturday!

[UltraBeat Entertainment]

Thats why i carry a laptop:rolleyes:. The battery acts as a UPS
(the only problem being the external harddrive crashes:o ).

I always take at least 2 full cases of CD's to every gig (but i do use both CD and laptop for DJing).

But you have to think to your self "what happens if you get a major harware failure"? your power supply blows, harddrive fails/courpts. theres so many possiable problems that could happen with computers.

I also had a power problem a while back blew my amp (no protection at time and no back up amp):eek:

[Vectis]

Vectis - where did you get your one? I think this my solve my problem.


Not sure mate, it's one of those cheapy £40 ones you can get from virtually any PC bits vendor.


Since I've had OTS, I really don't want to go back to CDs, but I'm gonna take some out with me for a while, because I really don't want the feeling I had the other night.

Which OTS do you use? For absolute backup I carry an old (and I mean old) IBM laptop - P2, 256MB, 20GB HDD - cost about £120 off eBay - loaded with a couple of thousand tunes you could run a typical party by if you really had to - with OTS Turntables silver (£25?). Not that I've ever needed it. I use the same laptop to program my LED sign - that should give some idea how "powerful" it is :D However, it runs OTS TT perfectly!!!
[/QUOTE]


Thats why i carry a laptop:rolleyes:. The battery acts as a UPS
(the only problem being the external harddrive crashes:o ).


Not if you use USB-powered HDDs ;) I use the freecom toughdrive pro's. OK so a bit more expensive than ordinary drives (and about double a desktop drive) BUT they don't need a power supply, keep spinning when the power goes off, AND are virtually indestructible.



But you have to think to your self "what happens if you get a major harware failure"? your power supply blows, harddrive fails/courpts. theres so many possiable problems that could happen with computers.

I also had a power problem a while back blew my amp (no protection at time and no back up amp):eek:

I carry enough spare kit (or have rapid access to it) to cover pretty much every likely problem, but I would suggest that AS AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM any mobile should have the following spare kit with them, or within quick & easy reach:

1. Spare playout method. Even if that's a cheap laptop as above or a £20 MP3 player loaded with a few mixes.
2. Spare mixer. Even if it's a 2+1 £30 Behringer special (like mine :D ). Alternatively some other routing path direct to amp. For example, with my OTS configuration on the primary laptop I can route Mic In, mix in software, and dump the whole lot out a single port.
3. Spare amp.
4. Spare speakers (I leave mine at home unless on the mainland - can get at them within 30 minutes).
5. Spare bulbs and fuses to suit EVERYTHING - including mixers, amps etc.

Anything else spare is a luxury methinks. Unless you've only got 2 lights in which case you might want to carry a spare one of those as well ;)

[PropellerHeadCase]

1. Spare playout method. Even if that's a cheap laptop as above or a £20 MP3 player loaded with a few mixes.
2. Spare mixer. Even if it's a 2+1 £30 Behringer special (like mine :D ). Alternatively some other routing path direct to amp. For example, with my OTS configuration on the primary laptop I can route Mic In, mix in software, and dump the whole lot out a single port.
3. Spare amp.
4. Spare speakers (I leave mine at home unless on the mainland - can get at them within 30 minutes).
5. Spare bulbs and fuses to suit EVERYTHING - including mixers, amps etc.

I'm with you on most of that though I (naughtily) am not quite there yet :eek:

1&2) I have my old Denon 1500F Mk II and an Intimidation mixer for complete player failure on my main system - only problem is that just at the moment the mixer doesn't have inputs compatible with my amp so if my main mixer completely died I'd be screwed (so long as one through-put channel works - even if it's just the FX-return channel I could get by). Before anyone says it I've never found converting from RCA outs to XLR ins to be anything but buzz-infested trouble), and...

3) I'm just about to take possession of a cheap amp that has both XLR and jack inputs - powerful enough to run the sub or the tops (or the whole lot using the sub's passive cross-over) - most of my gigs have been tops only so my sub-amp has been my spare.

4) Can't afford spare speakers just at the moment but I have two DJ friends who are semi-retired and could help me out at a push - that said the chance of both top end speakers going is virtually nil and I have played half a gig with only one speaker with no-one the wiser (my system is reasonably powerful - only thing I'd say is that I lost a little clarity on the top end).

5) I have power conditioners, UPS, spare bulbs and (mostly) a spare amp - have not yet found the need for anything else - I'd rather swap amps than swap fuses in a live amp in a live situation.

My long-term plans solve a number of the back-up issues with one phrase that any IT-type will recognise - 'built-in redundancy'.

[Impactdisco]

Just to let you all know, on Saturday, my computer turned itself off again at a venue where it had been fine at before, so I decided to break the warranty seal on the casing, and take a look inside.

After removing memory cards and cleaning and replacing, then checking all plugs were in properly (i noticed that one was not seated properly - an electric supply lead!), I put it back together.

I loaded OTS up with 16 hours of music and left it to play. It was fine.

On Monday I drove to Peterborough (211 miles) and did a disco from 7.30pm - 3am and it was fine all evening.

I have used it since and it has been fine.

Therefore, I think it may just have been a loose lead caused by all the moving of the computer, so from now on, I think I'll just have a check once a fortnight and see how i goes.