Legal Advice - Sale of Car

[leelive]

Looking for some advice.
Tried phoning the Consumer Advice line but it is closed due to the holidays.
So really hoping that some other DJ on this forum has experience in this matter.

I sold a car on Tuesday and received a cheque as payment (which was immediately banked - though it has not yet cleared).

The car was in perfect working order. Today, after arranging insurance the new owner (who is also a new driver) collected it from our street.

3 hours later I get a call from the new owner to say that the clutch has broken and that they are going to cancel the cheque and that we have to collect the car 3 miles away as they don't want it!!

My neighbour, a policeman, saw her drive off and told me afterwards that they couldn't drive properly and was surprised they got very far in it. He will be a witness that they couldn't "mechanically drive properly". Saying they may have not have been using the clutch with the amount of noise it was making.

Where do I stand?

If they cancel the cheque then do I call the police? They have damaged the car!!

Many thanks.

Lee

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have recently been through this with a trader and most of the laws are similar with private sales.

Although this is for traders, lots of the rules are the same (surprisingly), with the car having to be fit for purpose when you sell it - so if the clutch goes, then you will be liable to fix it.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1241.pdf

[deltic]

Looking for some advice.
Tried phoning the Consumer Advice line but it is closed due to the holidays.
So really hoping that some other DJ on this forum has experience in this matter.

I sold a car on Tuesday and received a cheque as payment (which was immediately banked - though it has not yet cleared).

The car was in perfect working order. Today, after arranging insurance the new owner (who is also a new driver) collected it from our street.

3 hours later I get a call from the new owner to say that the clutch has broken and that they are going to cancel the cheque and that we have to collect the car 3 miles away as they don't want it!!

My neighbour, a policeman, saw her drive off and told me afterwards that they couldn't drive properly and was surprised they got very far in it. He will be a witness that they couldn't "mechanically drive properly". Saying they may have not have been using the clutch with the amount of noise it was making.

Where do I stand?

If they cancel the cheque then do I call the police? They have damaged the car!!

Many thanks.

Lee

why let the car go before the cheque cleared?

[Marc J]

They've cancelled the cheque so you are entitled to the car back.

You have witnesses to say he left driving a perfectly functioning car, although not driving it very well!

It can be assumed that he agreed to the sale by giving you a cheque and you giving him the keys, and him driving off in the car. Although it was silly to not wait until the cheque was cleared on your part!

So, you now have to get the car back. How you do that is up to you (recovery truck / tow etc.) but I'd say you are entitled to the following from him: -

1) the cost of recovery
2) the cost of repair for the damage he's done
3) the difference in value between what he paid and what you manage to sell it for next time (if less)

but you'd have to recover this through the small claims court....

I'm no lawyer, so DYOR!

EDIT: From http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...are-my-rights: -

"Second hand car bought privately

You have fewer rights when you buy from a private seller and key parts of the Sale of Goods Act don't apply – there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

But, legally, the seller must:
•accurately describe the second hand car (for example, an advert must not say 'one owner', when the car has had several)
•not misrepresent the second hand car (tell you something about the car which isn't true – such as if it’s been in an accident, the owner must answer truthfully).
"

[yourdj]

I doubt he broke the clutch from bad driving LOL
Just consider it sods law and get the car fixed.

Being their age thats probably lots of money and they are probably very disappointed being a first car purchase.
Just rip up the cheque. Life i too short - you win some you loose some.

PS cash only or cleared funds with vehicle sales. its dodgy territory.

[leelive]

Thanks for all this advice.
The Which? article seemed spot on.
There was nothing wrong with the car so she ought to take it as is.
But if the cheque is cancelled then I have learnt a hard lesson.
I want good karma on this one... so may not be so harsh with the new owner.

[BeerFunk]

Were there any signs that the clutch was on it's way out Lee? If not, a mechanic may be able to verify that it has been damaged by mis-use? I'm not sure.

I doubt it'd be worth the hassle. I'd probably cut my losses if I were in that situation

[leelive]

I think I have a plan of action now.

I phone my garage and ask them if it can be determined if a clutch has broken through bad driving.
If yes, then ask for an engineer to go and inspect car.
If the new owner is at fault then I walk away. I will explain if cheque bounces then they will be taken to small claims court.

If clutch had been going for some time then I'll offer to pay 50% of the cost of repair, but they still keep the car.

If they refuse then might have to cut my loses and take car back as good will gesture.

Thanks for all your help.

Lee

[Excalibur]

I doubt he broke the clutch from bad driving LOL
.

I don't Toby. Seriously. Particullarly with the dreaded dual mass ones.
It's quite possible that the clutch was in a condition to be expected due to its mileage, and previous treatment ( pulling a trailer, town driving etc ) but was likely to do thousands more miles. When subjected to some abuse from an unfamiliar driver, that may have overstressed it, causing it to break.
Also, a clutch can fail in two modes, which gives a clue to the fault, ie no drive= worn out, or Dual mass breakdown, or permanent drive = cable or hydraulic failure. ( Often much easier and cheaper to fix.

So many mechanical variables that you can't speculate accurately without much more information. It's got to be seen by a garage in my opinion, so that the next course of action can be determined.

As to the legal status, I've absolutely no idea, sorry.

[DJ Jules]

Also, a clutch can fail in two modes, which gives a clue to the fault, ie no drive= worn out, or Dual mass breakdown, or permanent drive = cable or hydraulic failure. ( Often much easier and cheaper to fix.

I was going to ask about that - what do they mean by "the clutch has gone?" Do they mean they push the pedal down and it doesn't disengage (hinting at cable/hydraulic/release bearing failure) or do they mean it's slipping and/or very noisy on running (hinting at worn friction plates or DMF failure?)

If it's the former (release mechanism failure) then unless the release bearing was noisy or there was some other indication that it was likely to fail at the time when the car was driven away, then to be honest, I think it's buyer beware and they're going to have to deal with it (or you could offer to partially cover the repair cost - which could be quite small unless it's the release bearing or lever - as a gesture of good will).

If it's the latter, then it'd be reasonable to think that there would have been some indication that the clutch was on it's way out at the time of sale, and then you would have had greater responsibility to either declare this as part of any statement of condition of the car, or fix it prior to sale.

However, I can only echo what has been said above, a Dual mass flywheel with reasonable wear can be quite quickly sent to the knackers yard by poor driving at low revs or frequent and rapid release of the clutch at high revs in a high gear (basically subjecting it to greater than normal load).

Definitely trading standards job, but it's worth warning the buyer that technically, cancelling the cheque after they have received the goods counts as fraud. They should wait for it clear and then seek a refund. Cash, bankers draft, Building society cheques or cleared funds only before I release goods - always...

Incidentally, I've been in this position before with an ex-post office Renault Kangoo where the buyer drove away and the battery failed on him when he tried to re-start the car at the services on the way home. Once he got home on the new battery the next morning the ECU refused to recognise the key and disabled the ignition. In my case, because the failures were so close to the time the guy bought the car (despite me having had no issue with the battery prior to this) I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on (and I had been having intermittent problems with the ECU so it was reasonable to think that the fault was lurking at time of sale) so I funded 50% of the cost of a new battery, new ECU and new keys (£220) and put it down to experience (lesson learned - never EVER buy an ex-post office van!)

However - if your guy was asking for money back to cover the cost of repair, then I wouldn't have been surprised if he was just trying to get a sneaky discount.

Julian