Post COVID - what's the future going to look like?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Hmm, maybe technically speaking - but with everything up in the air it might get messy.

How will it get messy? Someone coming to me in October to move their date is cancelling. that's not technical, that is them moving the date when, I could be able to do it on that date.

We might not know wether we can or not but there's neither here nor there, THEY are making that decision based on the current situation.

It's no different to people who hedged their bets and cancelled Summer holidays in March and April - do you think TUI et al gave them their deposits or monies already paid back?

[DJ Jules]

How will it get messy? Someone coming to me in October to move their date is cancelling. that's not technical, that is them moving the date when, I could be able to do it on that date.

I've just had exactly this, couple moved from May to Oct and have now decided to have a small wedding instead and are cancelling my services.

My standard terms say that if they give 2 months notice they only forfeit the deposit, so that's how I have had to deal with them. If I'd insisted that the original payment due dates stood, then they would have lost the whole fee.

Good for me? Not really. How much choice do I have...? Not a lot.

Julian

[ppentertainments]

If I'd insisted that the original payment due dates stood, then they would have lost the whole fee.

That is what I have done - rearranged free of charge, however cancellation dates apply from the ORIGINAL date. Can see plenty of break ups happening. Whether I would enforce this is a different matter. So long as I have no refunds to make I am happy enough.

[Imagine]

Unfortunately at the moment, it's a case of playing ball and keeping the clients happy however possible, or facing a roasting on social media which is going to kill your reputation.

We're in "unprecedented" times at the moment. And a certain Mr Lewis isn't helping things with his dud information

I'm "lucky" if such a thing exists at the moment. We built up considerable savings over many years to see us through the bad times when I finally took the plunge into full time last April (not quite as bad as now but hey ho). I realised very early doors that this thing is going to have us off the road for a good time yet, took on a job (urgh....I WANT to be self employed.....not PAYE) and have stopped the savings bleeding away.

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

The upside is that many of the big players on my patch have given up hope, sold up (or are trying to at least), and moved on to different revenue streams. There's going to be a huge gap in the market when we're allowed out again and trust me, I'm ready to bring the business out of hibernation and fill that gap!

[DJ Jules]

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I watched something like this unfold a couple of days ago on a wedding group - the couple wanted to cancel the celebration and the venue have refused to refund the deposit (as they're entitled to, due to costs). The venue have said they're happy to carry the deposit forward to a new date, but the couple don't want to do this as the groom is in one of the forces and can't predict when he'll be around. The bride has been very vocal across social media. However, the venue have produced a very good response to her that people seem to be buying into (basically saying that they're happy to move dates but, if you cancel, you will lose money and that they're acting in line with contracts signed and CMA guidance).

I've been keeping a close eye on my biggest risk bookings from the start, i.e. the ones who have paid large sums of money ahead of time and could (rightly) come asking for big refunds if they cancel and I've now got that number down to low single digits. Unfortunately I now have one couple coming up late Sept who rescheduled from April and (unless the plan changes from the dates stated) are going to have to either scale down their wedding to 30 people or move their date again).

I'm keeping deposits small for now and ring-fencing any advance payments so they sit in the bank. This current situation has really highlighted the dangers of using deposits/advance payments to supplement cash flow.

Still very scary times.

Julian

[rth_discos]

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

This bit is critical. Our industry is predominantly operated by self-employed sole traders. There's the odd Limited Company, but not many.

Which means that we remain 100% liable.

So if we've taken in £20k of 'up front payments' that we need to refund, but don't have the money, we are still liable for it, whereas a Limited Company can simply shut shop.

Perversely, it's why I've always found it odd when people say they want to do business with a 'proper company' (a Ltd company), when that company has Limited Liability, and can shut shop anytime they like!

[Excalibur]

Unfortunately at the moment, it's a case of playing ball and keeping the clients happy however possible, or facing a roasting on social media which is going to kill your reputation.

We're in "unprecedented" times at the moment. And a certain Mr Lewis isn't helping things with his dud information

I'm "lucky" if such a thing exists at the moment. We built up considerable savings over many years to see us through the bad times when I finally took the plunge into full time last April (not quite as bad as now but hey ho). I realised very early doors that this thing is going to have us off the road for a good time yet, took on a job (urgh....I WANT to be self employed.....not PAYE) and have stopped the savings bleeding away.

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

The upside is that many of the big players on my patch have given up hope, sold up (or are trying to at least), and moved on to different revenue streams. There's going to be a huge gap in the market when we're allowed out again and trust me, I'm ready to bring the business out of hibernation and fill that gap!

Give that man any prize off the top shelf! We're in a business where customer confidence, and good reputation are everything. The short term gain of fifty or a hundred quid pales into insignificance next to the bad publicity, and loss of possibly thousands of pounds from those people who would have booked, but for their friends telling them just how intransigent you were about sticking to the T&Cs of the original contract, and having your " pound of flesh".

We're a service industry, for heavens sake!

[djeddie]

One thing to bear in mind is what is an "unfair term" in a contract. There used to be the Unfair Contracts Act 1977, which I think has been superceded... but, most unfair terms, when tested in court, take into mind circumstances. The UCA had a section for providing services that weren't provided and deposits etc being returned, but whichever Act has taken over it will include almost all of the UCA. Maybe worth checking it out.

You may have your cash and wonderfully-worded contract, but be prepared for it to be tested in court. It only takes one person to get the hump, shout loud enough on social media, get their local rag involved (along with the usual compo-face photo) and you could be heading for financial heartache and lots of bad publicity.

Which side would public opinion go, especially if any local rag has got involved? The heart-broken bride-to-be, whose magical day has been ruined? Or the nasty "Dave Double Decks"?

[ppentertainments]

This bit is critical. Our industry is predominantly operated by self-employed sole traders. There's the odd Limited Company, but not many.

Which means that we remain 100% liable.

So if we've taken in £20k of 'up front payments' that we need to refund, but don't have the money, we are still liable for it, whereas a Limited Company can simply shut shop.

Perversely, it's why I've always found it odd when people say they want to do business with a 'proper company' (a Ltd company), when that company has Limited Liability, and can shut shop anytime they like!

Not strictly true - there are still Directors Liabilities to prevent people setting up businesses, raking up huge debts then declaring the business bankrupt. Whether this would come into play at this moment in time, I doubt it, but isn't the fail safe it once was.

[ppentertainments]

Unfortunately at the moment, it's a case of playing ball and keeping the clients happy however possible, or facing a roasting on social media which is going to kill your reputation.

We're in "unprecedented" times at the moment. And a certain Mr Lewis isn't helping things with his dud information

I'm "lucky" if such a thing exists at the moment. We built up considerable savings over many years to see us through the bad times when I finally took the plunge into full time last April (not quite as bad as now but hey ho). I realised very early doors that this thing is going to have us off the road for a good time yet, took on a job (urgh....I WANT to be self employed.....not PAYE) and have stopped the savings bleeding away.

I've moved all bar one couple to next year and moved their payment dates as well (customer service and a good rep in my book is a huge thing....especially when local venues are being absolutely ROASTED online for doing what's legally right). I've refunded the deposit (in full) on one party because it was less hassle.

I could have taken advance payments (many offered), but turned them down. Why? Because if this Covid thing is here for a while (which I suspect it is), it's much easier to find the odd £50 deposit and refund it than several hundred pounds and potentially bankrupt myself.

The upside is that many of the big players on my patch have given up hope, sold up (or are trying to at least), and moved on to different revenue streams. There's going to be a huge gap in the market when we're allowed out again and trust me, I'm ready to bring the business out of hibernation and fill that gap!

100% Agree. I think any (real) Full Time DJ should now either have a job or at least 12 months money aside they can live off. Even when the lid is lifted I can still see turbulent times ahead and hearing from venues about the lack of 'new' couples booking could spell a tough 2022.

I am not getting carried away about 2021. I have closed my diary now with the exception of residencies (thank you Mr VAT man) but still question how many will go ahead with big weddings if there are still real risks present. As I run almost to capacity anyway, I have still lost 2020 - the fact most have postponed is irrelevant as if 2020 went ahead I would have had new couples for 2021.

Will weddings change forever ?? Anyone got a crystal ball ? I can certainly see the frivolous offerings not being in demand any more.