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Thread: Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Chat

  1. #501

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    Now that we look likely to not be working till April 2021 - at least - how are people NOW looking at refunding deposits etc ?

    I know this is old ground, but 6 months is a hell of a long time.

    Personally, I am still not refunding as can still provide services. I have came up with a package that is terrific value for money and either offering that, or they can cancel BUT I do not refund deposits.

    Harsh, but have to keep looking from a business point of view.
    Semi-Retired Multi Award Winning DJ

    www.ultimateweddingdj.co.uk

  2. #502

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    Personally, I am still not refunding as can still provide services. I have came up with a package that is terrific value for money and either offering that, or they can cancel BUT I do not refund deposits.

    Harsh, but have to keep looking from a business point of view.
    This is where it gets complex. Because the service we can offer is not the service that was purchased.

    If someone booked you to perform an evening disco, telling them you can now provide background music during the meal and some background music during the evening is a material change to the contract. So it's still a frustrated contract:

    "If an unforeseeable event occurs after a contract is formed, which radically changes the nature of the contract, then the contract may be frustrated"

    Just being able to provide a different service does not absolve you of your obligations when a contract is frustrated.

    So it's still a very grey area.

    The difficulty is what is 'reasonable' when it comes to cancellations. Certainly anyone cancelling for October and November is fine.

    But a wedding in March next year?

    The situation has become more complex than ever before.

  3. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    This is where it gets complex. Because the service we can offer is not the service that was purchased.
    It's not that complex, you can't unilaterally change the terms of the contract - you need the agreement of the client. You are helped a little by the CMA guidance that says that both parties have a duty to do their best to un-frustrate the contract.
    You can suggest alternatives, but they don't have to take them.

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    The difficulty is what is 'reasonable' when it comes to cancellations. Certainly anyone cancelling for October and November is fine.

    But a wedding in March next year?
    Yeah, this is the tricky bit. You might just have to tell them to wait to see what happens before you make a final decision on the deposit.

    Julian
    http://www.bristoldiscohire.co.uk - Quality Disco and Equipment hire for Bristol & Bath
    Weddings, Birthday Parties, Kids Parties, School Disco's and more
    https://julianburr.co.uk - Wedding, Family, Portrait and Product Photography

  4. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Jules View Post
    It's not that complex, you can't unilaterally change the terms of the contract - you need the agreement of the client. You are helped a little by the CMA guidance that says that both parties have a duty to do their best to un-frustrate the contract.
    You can suggest alternatives, but they don't have to take them.
    As an example, I'm thinking of the wedding I still have booked for December (which itself was a postponement from June).

    I am booked to do the evening disco. In June, I was unable to perform in the evening at all because there were no weddings whatsoever (or if there was, it was the ceremony + meal only).

    But in December, it looks like evening functions are available, and I can play music for the time I was booked.

    The fact it's now 15 people instead of the 80 I was booked for is irrelevant to me.

    But is playing background music in the 'spirit' of what I was booked for. And that's the bit I'm suggesting is where it gets complex. My hunch is that I wouldn't be able to deliver what I was booked for - a disco.

    On that note... I remember a number of DJs for a long time were offering "100% money back guarantee". I'm guessing these people are forced to offer full refunds when requested, because the alternative is to carry out the booking and then the client ask for a full refund immediately afterwards...!

  5. #505
    Dinosaur Excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppentertainments View Post
    Now that we look likely to not be working till April 2021 - at least - how are people NOW looking at refunding deposits etc ?

    I know this is old ground, but 6 months is a hell of a long time.

    Personally, I am still not refunding as can still provide services. I have came up with a package that is terrific value for money and either offering that, or they can cancel BUT I do not refund deposits.

    Harsh, but have to keep looking from a business point of view.
    Chris, I see where you're coming from, and I'd have to say I'm thinking along similar lines.

    However:

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    This is where it gets complex. Because the service we can offer is not the service that was purchased.


    So it's still a very grey area.


    The difficulty is what is 'reasonable' when it comes to cancellations. Certainly anyone cancelling for October and November is fine.

    But a wedding in March next year?

    The situation has become more complex than ever before.
    A grey area? I'm thinking an elephant on a battleship on a very foggy day, here.

    Having checked my standard contract, I guarantee to provide " Disco Unit and DJ". Hard to dispute that, I feel.

    Although that's true, I don't suspect it sidesteps the question, " are we providing a service comparable to what was ordered/promised"? The answer is probably" no", but as Chris ( and many others, I'll warrant ) is doing, we are striving to provide the best service we can under new constraints.

    Is that acceptable? I reckon every case is not only unique, but also needs to be agreed amicably by both sides, in whatever way suits both sides best. I still foresee many " frank exchanges of views".
    Excalibur. Older than the average DJ.

    www.excaliburmobiledisco.co.uk

  6. #506

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
    Chris, I see where you're coming from, and I'd have to say I'm thinking along similar lines.

    However:



    A grey area? I'm thinking an elephant on a battleship on a very foggy day, here.

    Having checked my standard contract, I guarantee to provide " Disco Unit and DJ". Hard to dispute that, I feel.

    Although that's true, I don't suspect it sidesteps the question, " are we providing a service comparable to what was ordered/promised"? The answer is probably" no", but as Chris ( and many others, I'll warrant ) is doing, we are striving to provide the best service we can under new constraints.

    Is that acceptable? I reckon every case is not only unique, but also needs to be agreed amicably by both sides, in whatever way suits both sides best. I still foresee many " frank exchanges of views".
    Totally agree, and in fact I don't think you can disagree with anyone and what they are striving to do at the moment.

    Even your description of "Disco unit and DJ" though - you can supply a DJ setup (or unit), you are a DJ - in no way have you promised to play loud music for people to dance too.

    I do agree, as a customer, it does seem unfair - which is why I still can't get my head round why insurance companies are not been held to ransome, they seem to be the ones getting away scott free

    I have started being honest, when people are asking about 'what if' I am telling them the exact position I am in, which is working out really well so far.
    Semi-Retired Multi Award Winning DJ

    www.ultimateweddingdj.co.uk

  7. #507

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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    The fact it's now 15 people instead of the 80 I was booked for is irrelevant to me.
    The CMA did have something to say about that, but I can't remember the exact wording or the implications (helpful huh?) It's probably worth reading their statement again. It was something about "where the restrictions significantly affected the nature of the event or service"

    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    But is playing background music in the 'spirit' of what I was booked for. And that's the bit I'm suggesting is where it gets complex. My hunch is that I wouldn't be able to deliver what I was booked for - a disco.
    Yeah, and that's where the final decision would largely be down to the individual circumstances of the booking or the judge you got on the day.

    I've had a few dry hires who have booked in August for wedding receptions in Sept and then cancelled and they've been told where to go when they've asked for refunds. It's a dry hire - I can still provide the equipment and how they use it is their problem, not mine.

    Julian
    http://www.bristoldiscohire.co.uk - Quality Disco and Equipment hire for Bristol & Bath
    Weddings, Birthday Parties, Kids Parties, School Disco's and more
    https://julianburr.co.uk - Wedding, Family, Portrait and Product Photography

  8. #508

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    Quote Originally Posted by rth_discos View Post
    This is where it gets complex. Because the service we can offer is not the service that was purchased.

    If someone booked you to perform an evening disco, telling them you can now provide background music during the meal and some background music during the evening is a material change to the contract. So it's still a frustrated contract:

    "If an unforeseeable event occurs after a contract is formed, which radically changes the nature of the contract, then the contract may be frustrated"

    Just being able to provide a different service does not absolve you of your obligations when a contract is frustrated.

    So it's still a very grey area.

    The difficulty is what is 'reasonable' when it comes to cancellations. Certainly anyone cancelling for October and November is fine.

    But a wedding in March next year?

    The situation has become more complex than ever before.
    People only book me for up to 5 hours DJ services though. Play on words but legally is a little escape route
    Semi-Retired Multi Award Winning DJ

    www.ultimateweddingdj.co.uk

  9. #509
    Resident Antagonist Benny Smyth's Avatar
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    Makes me happy that my contracted service "is on a music entertainment basis providing music and speech for the clients and their guests. Hardware is likely to include CD players, mixer, digital playout system, speakers, lights, effects, cabling, stands, bars & gantries. Smoke/fogger effects are provided but may only be used at the venue’s discretion. No other entertainment than that of ‘DJ / compere / presenter’ is offered." How do I know I can deliver that service? Because over the next two weeks, I will be providing that very service at two weddings. I dare say that they won't be remembered as fondly as those nights where guests are swinging off the chandeliers, but the clients want to go ahead. Horses for courses, and all that.

    From 15 people at 15db to 150 people at 150db [exaggeration for effect], my service can be delivered. The quality of the service will be in the eye of the beholder...

    And it's because of clients spouting some inaccurate crap about frustrated contracts that they read off a Bridal forum that I'm seeing a bit of a turn among suppliers. When this all kicked off in March, we were right to say yes and do everything we can to give the clients what they wanted, and then some. We're now at that stage where a lot of suppliers are having to stand firm and say "No, you can't just send me an email saying that you've changed your date without even checking in with me, and then demand for me to move the booking or give a full refund. Just because you have made a decision does not mean the world has to adjust accordingly."

    It seems to have been lost that the best way to move forward is to work together - it was that way in March, remains that way in September and will continue to remain that way. Suppliers are no longer in a position where they cannot enforce their contracts and it's been that way for a while. It's no longer a case of whether they can, it's whether they should and any clients who makes things a lot more difficult than they should will really help make that dilemma a lot easier to resolve which is a shame because from what I have seen, all suppliers are really trying hard for their clients. I know I am!

    In no way am I saying that you should wield your power from the off; I'm still very much of the stance of it being a 50/50 relationship and there should be trade offs from both sides so that everyone is happy with an arrangement going forward. At this stage though...bend over backwards. Not forwards.

  10. #510
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    You know it's not going to be a good day when you see something like this not long after you wake up http://news.sky.com/story/coronaviru...-back-12084944.

    As some of you may know I was still in the early process of making a comeback with mobile dj'ing and so unlike all of you who have had big decisions to make about refunds and bookings it luckily hasn't affected me very much. My worry is more to do with is this going to be the right career path for me given the uncertainty about when anyone can take disco bookings. I'm still working towards getting things ready along with working and volunteering doing other jobs right now. The trouble is I don't want to re- skill or change my direction. It took a while to decide that I would definitely want to get back out there and dj at more mobile disco events like I used to over 10 years ago. Now that I've made the decision I would have no idea what else to do if this plan didn't happen. My qualifications and work history lies in admin, office and IT type of jobs but I have been very reluctant to head back in that direction. I did think that I would need a part time office admin type of job alongside the mobile DJ'ing to begin with but going full time is a no no for me for various reasons. I've been doing delivery driving jobs for the last 3 years as it fitted my circumstances but even this isn't something I want to continue with indefinitely. Just like all in this group I wish there was some better idea about when some sectors are likely to get back to things.
    Last edited by Pazz; 29-09-2020 at 11:46 AM.
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